Technic 2023 Set Discussion

[allanp]

The high number of Technic sets released in any given year isn't necessarily a bad thing, it just means Technic is selling well enough to demand more sets be released, and instead of having 8 A-models with B models we instead get 16 A-models, half of which don't have to be compromised by being made up of parts from another model, and there's more sets to choose from. So having lots of sets released in one year has a lot of potential benefits to us fans I think. And it's not like every set from "the good old days" was a total winner either. But the question is, is that potential being realised? I'm not sure that it is. Take the potential benefit of there being more choice for example. It certainly doesn't feel like there's more choice when your options are mostly just cars made in different scales. I wonder if they hired Oprah to assign models to the designers! 

"You get a car, and you get a car, and you get a car!" 

"Can I design a JCB Backhoe with 14 Pneumatic functions instead and new more powerful compressor and daisy chainable, highly accurate micro servos for the valves? Or a new 8480 space shuttle with cool new, high torque, daisy chainable micro motors and awesome miniature planetary reducers for the canadarm? Or a working pneumatic steam engine or traction engine with a new low friction sliding spool valve to make LPEs easier to make (could even combine the traction engine with an upcoming fairground set to power it, or make a factory floor with machines powered from a single ceiling mounted line shaft, could even make that into a subtheme of different line powered sets like a loom and so on), or a whole new Technic subtheme of studded universal sets to act as a bridge between regular Lego and studless Technic to make Technic more accessible, or make a new version of the helicopter from the control centre 2, mounted to an arm with low fiction pivots and perfectly counterbalanced and uses the new helicopter swash plate components so you can manipulate the remote controls to actually really fly the thing up/down/forwards and backwards to try to pick up the stranded technic minifigures on a hook, or an insane forklift truck with 30 stud long pneumatics for the 3 section mast, or what about......?"

"Nope, but you can design something different, you get a hypercar!"

Edited January 2, 2023 by allanp

[Maaboo the Witch]

I rediscovered Technic nearly a decade ago. Had this been the lineup in 2013, though, things would have been mighty different.

[johnnytifosi]

2 hours ago, allanp said:

The high number of Technic sets released in any given year isn't necessarily a bad thing, it just means Technic is selling well enough to demand more sets be released, and instead of having 8 A-models with B models we instead get 16 A-models, half of which don't have to be compromised by being made up of parts from another model, and there's more sets to choose from. So having lots of sets released in one year has a lot of potential benefits to us fans I think.

8 sets with B models vs 16 sets without B models is half the value though ;)

Quote

"Or a working pneumatic steam engine or traction engine with a new low friction sliding spool valve to make LPEs easier to make (could even combine the traction engine with an upcoming fairground set to power it, or make a factory floor with machines powered from a single ceiling mounted line shaft, could even make that into a subtheme of different line powered sets like a loom and so on), or a whole new Technic subtheme of studded universal sets to act as a bridge between regular Lego and studless Technic to make Technic more accessible,

The exact same pneumatic steam engine got 10000 votes in lego ideas this year but of course they rejected it for some Polaroid paperweight instead. It was a brilliant concept :(

And I agree that both studded and universal sets are badly needed, but this ship has sailed decades ago unfortunately. In the first case, TLG seems to ideologically avoid Technic bricks even where they are necessary, like structures requiring rigidity (for cost cutting reasons I presume, just check the cost of equivalent Bricks and beams in Bricks and pieces). In the second case, when even B models are gone, TLG putting the effort in a 90s style universal set with 4 models is only a pipe dream.

 

 

Edited January 2, 2023 by johnnytifosi

[howitzer]

31 minutes ago, johnnytifosi said:

8 sets with B models vs 16 sets without B models is half the value though ;)

The exact same pneumatic steam engine got 10000 votes in lego ideas this year but of course they rejected it for some Polaroid paperweight instead. It was a brilliant concept :(

And I agree that both studded and universal sets are badly needed, but this ship has sailed decades ago unfortunately. In the first case, TLG seems to ideologically avoid Technic bricks even where they are necessary, like structures requiring rigidity (for cost cutting reasons I presume, just check the cost of equivalent Bricks and beams in Bricks and pieces). In the second case, when even B models are gone, TLG putting the effort in a 90s style universal set with 4 models is only a pipe dream.

The pneumatic steam engine was indeed brilliant and it's rejection is a shame, though not surprising. I don't think such a complex and specialized set would've sold that well so from economics point of view I understand why it wasn't approved. The Polaroid paperweight is really easy to transform into a set selling well among adults in nostalgia frenzy, and while it's otherwise a completely pointless model, I can see why TLG chose it.

Studful beams are actually used where they are necessary for their rigidity, such as crane booms (42082 for example) though beyond those rare cases they are few and far between. I don't think cost is a reason here though, as Technic bricks are plentiful in other themes, and while liftarms are probably cheaper, there are a lot of not-cheap frames used as structural elements. I think it's more that studful and studless building styles don't mix that well, and for the sake of consistency it's better to have one or the other. The times of studful Technic sets are indeed over.

I agree that there should be proper universal sets again, even if some of the universal sets back in the 80's and 90's were ... weird to say the least. Mostly they tended to have one or two nice models with the rest being awkward and not that fun (8032, anyone?). On the other hand, many included really ingenious solutions with limited parts and creative models, so seeing something similar today would be nice. There was the 51515 Robot inventor, which includes instructions for 5 models I think, but I guess it doesn't really count.

[thurd]

10 hours ago, Maaboo35 said:

I think what any of us want or suggest is irrelevant. TLG releases what TLG releases and if we don't like it then so what.

At some point they might force us to consider Cada or Mould King for the "proper" technic sets and if they deliver, some people might change sides 😉

[JGW3000]

I'd consider Mindstorms as universal sets to some extent, and now they are gone as well.

[kbalage]

18 hours ago, 1gor said:

usually TLC thinks like that, but i think competition will make them rethink their behavior sooner than they think 

"Competition" for TLG will be something meaningful if you will start to see more alternative building block toy boxes in regular toy stores than LEGO, until then it only affects a fraction of fans and they couldn't care less. 

[msk6003]

Speaking about universal sets, I think technic themed "CLASSIC" series will good for both part pack and re-release of universal set.

[Maaboo the Witch]

23 minutes ago, msk6003 said:

Speaking about universal sets, I think technic themed "CLASSIC" series will good for both part pack and re-release of universal set.

This isn't a wishlist topic.

[Jundis]

12 hours ago, johnnytifosi said:

And I agree that both studded and universal sets are badly needed, but this ship has sailed decades ago unfortunately.

My niece and nephew got this book, which is available at least in germany. So there are still studded bricks and old school lego technic available, although not in a big set...

[1gor]

4 hours ago, kbalage said:

"Competition" for TLG will be something meaningful if you will start to see more alternative building block toy boxes in regular toy stores than LEGO, until then it only affects a fraction of fans and they couldn't care less. 

well Russian agression is playing in TLC cards, since logistics from China gets complicated over time

Edited January 3, 2023 by 1gor

[Danil]

2 hours ago, 1gor said:

хорошо российская агрессия обшивается картами TLC, так как логистика из китая со временем усложняется

Мы по этому поводу не переживаем,спешу вам успокоить. А просто покупаем наряду с вами лего. Дайтона к примеру,была собрана в начале июля. Жить можно. Что то жарко,нужно открыть окно...

[Void_S]

@1gor, @Danil, please stay cool! Logistics was already ruined since 2019 and, yeah, it didn't become better since 2022, in both ways: import and transit were blocked both, as a next part of embargo and sanction wars.
No one is happy, and I wish no one really wanted to judge each other.

@Danil, my friend from Mosambic, a special favor... Please follow the Forum Rules, use the given language here (EN) and put another image 

[1gor]

1 hour ago, Danil said:

Мы по этому поводу не переживаем,спешу вам успокоить. А просто покупаем наряду с вами лего. Дайтона к примеру,была собрана в начале июля. Жить можно. Что то жарко,нужно открыть окно...

please use English (despite facts that they like all nations had brights and dark sides in history)...(but i don't mind your avatar/picture)

[Mikdun]

On 1/3/2023 at 9:52 AM, kbalage said:

"Competition" for TLG will be something meaningful if you will start to see more alternative building block toy boxes in regular toy stores than LEGO, until then it only affects a fraction of fans and they couldn't care less. 

In Poland there are full shelves of alternate, but "compatible" sets. Cobi and Clementoni to start with.

Lego is considered premium item here, this gives them advantage.

[karmadrome]

On 1/3/2023 at 9:52 AM, kbalage said:

"Competition" for TLG will be something meaningful if you will start to see more alternative building block toy boxes in regular toy stores than LEGO, until then it only affects a fraction of fans and they couldn't care less. 

As regular physical stores are becoming less and less relevant due to Covid, Amazon and other online platforms, the competition will hopefully affect Lego more and more in the future. Would be interesting to see Lego's turnover from store sales compared to online sales.

[allanp]

I'm not sure I can agree with the general feeling over TLGs competitors, well, when it comes to Technic at least. Technic may or may not be in a good or bad place right now but there is usually a great set released from time to time, like the Airbus or the Arocs for example. I don't see anything anywhere close to as good as those sets from the competition. I don't wish for Technic to be threatened by the current low grade competition but maybe some better competition would be a good thing. But even so, Technic has a bunch of untapped potential and I would hope they can come closer to it's potential before being forced to by increasing competition. Fend off the competition before it grows by being better than they ever could be, not just better than they currently are.

[MarkyMark42]

While a percentage of the adult fans and more traditional fans of Lego and Lego Technic may complain about the current trends in design and lack of variety in sets being released, I think we can all agree that their sets would be driven by the market. 

Add to that the lure of a supercar or something along those lines that the average person may aspire to own would draw in the casual/non-lego enthusiast as well. 

[nerdsforprez]

On 1/2/2023 at 4:13 PM, johnnytifosi said:

8 sets with B models vs 16 sets without B models is half the value though ;)

That is all a matter of perspective.  If one buys sets actually for the SET then perhaps you are right.  However, many AFOLs are MOCers only and don't care much for sets themselves.  They buy for the parts only, and what those parts mean for their MOCs.  I belong to this group.  B models add no value to a set for AFOLs like me.   I have never built one and even if I ever build the initial set that I buy I don't keep it that way.  16 sets with no B models is highly preferable to me because it increases the palette of elements offered in any given year.  

Point is many define value of a set by the pieces it provides.  Building experience, B models, etc. don't mean anything to us b/c many times sets are not even built.  I don't have any stats on this, but from being a part of this forum for around a decade now I believe many buy solely for parts and not much for the set itself.   

[Johnny1360]

5 hours ago, nerdsforprez said:

 

Point is many define value of a set by the pieces it provides.  Building experience, B models, etc. don't mean anything to us b/c many times sets are not even built.  I don't have any stats on this, but from being a part of this forum for around a decade now I believe many buy solely for parts and not much for the set itself.   

I fall into this category as well, although I have built a handful of worthy B models and was fond of their existence even if they didn't come with a printed manual.

[deehtha]

On 1/2/2023 at 4:13 PM, johnnytifosi said:

8 sets with B models vs 16 sets without B models is half the value though ;)

The exact same pneumatic steam engine got 10000 votes in lego ideas this year but of course they rejected it for some Polaroid paperweight instead. It was a brilliant concept :(

And I agree that both studded and universal sets are badly needed, but this ship has sailed decades ago unfortunately. In the first case, TLG seems to ideologically avoid Technic bricks even where they are necessary, like structures requiring rigidity (for cost cutting reasons I presume, just check the cost of equivalent Bricks and beams in Bricks and pieces). In the second case, when even B models are gone, TLG putting the effort in a 90s style universal set with 4 models is only a pipe dream.

Very rarely do people buy a set for the B model (looking at you 8284). So all the money TLG puts into developing a B model does not go to generating new revenue. Not to mention many B models are subpar and can be greatly improved with a better part selection.

There are "universal sets", but only in the basic studded pieces and Duplo. The city sets are also seeing small accessory packs, while not true universal sets, at least gives me a little hope for similar packs for Technic. Packs that have the missing panels in the different colors. 

Across the board, TLG has shifted it's design philosophy to include a multitude of build once and display sets. The 1:8 cars and the BMW bike I feel fall into this category, and the smaller scale cars like the new Ford GT are straddling the line. 

Studded Technic is not needed, in the Technic line, except as an adapter to use studded details. Studless makes it easier to build in any direction, but with studs, you have to use SNOT techniques to get certain shapes. Studless beams are not horribly cheaper than studded equivalents, because they have made a huge push to incorporate both into the studded lines. The Technic line is made to closer represent machinery in the real world, where things are held together with nuts and bolts cover with lightweight paneling, not by stacking bricks (except things actually made with stacked clay bricks).

The problem with universal sets is all the left over pieces. I got 8062 for Christmas when I was a kid. I built the first thing in the instructions, and had some left over pieces. So I tore it apart and rebuilt it, only to have those same leftover pieces. So I built the rest. It was fun, but the piles of unused pieces after each build made me second guess myself after each build. And given the amount of post I see on facebook about people questioning whether their leftovers are spares or missed, I can imagine TLG does not want to go down that customer service nightmare.

[kbalage]

3 hours ago, deehtha said:

Very rarely do people buy a set for the B model (looking at you 8284). So all the money TLG puts into developing a B model does not go to generating new revenue. Not to mention many B models are subpar and can be greatly improved with a better part selection.

I think our expectations towards B models is somewhat distorted, we want to see a certain level of detail and realism in every Technic model nowadays. Take a look at the sheer amount of alternates made for the 42117 Race Plane for example, I think Grohl alone made thirty-something of them. Technic is just an arbitrary selection of LEGO pieces, but not all alternates should be vehicles or machines. Having so many licensed sets might be the biggest limiting factor from TLG's side, I guess e.g. Lamborghini wouldn't be happy to see a Ford F150 as a B-model. 

[MarkyMark42]

2 hours ago, kbalage said:

Technic is just an arbitrary selection of LEGO pieces, but not all alternates should be vehicles or machines. 

I totally agree with this statement, one of the best examples of this would have to be the corvette in my opinion. The corvette itself doesn't look that good, I do really like the B model also but the moc that was made of the skull was awesome. I bought another one just to build that. 

[zoo]

6 hours ago, deehtha said:

Studded Technic is not needed, in the Technic line, except as an adapter to use studded details.

One should not underestimate the usefulness of the larger cross section studded beams provide. They are superior to the studless beams in this regard.

[Jim]

On 1/3/2023 at 1:10 PM, Danil said:

Мы по этому поводу не переживаем,спешу вам успокоить. А просто покупаем наряду с вами лего. Дайтона к примеру,была собрана в начале июля. Жить можно. Что то жарко,нужно открыть окно...

Hi.

Please make sure your quotes and replies are in English. Our Russian is not that good 

Thanks!