Should lego make army theme or not?

[Peter22]

Lego should make an army theme, I mean they have the bricks, Lego can make new molds for new types of weapons. There is a site called www.Brickamania.com were you can buy WW2 through modern military guns,kits,and figures. please tell me what you think.

[Alfadas]

Doesn't matter what we think, Lego's policies don't allow making modern military stuff. Or at least that's what I read somewhere, don't remember where though... 

That said, I would love it if they made official sets from WW2, with Tigers, Shermans, t-34s and spitfires, mustangs, messerschidts etc. 

[Darkdragon]

Lego has repeated said that they will never create a modern army set or theme. There are plenty of parts available to create your own though, and many people have done so at varying degrees of success. If Lego doesn't provide the printing on figures or the guns you need, as you said, there are third party companies such as Brickmania, Brickarms, and Brickforge who all fill the niche pretty well.  You can also design your own minifigures and have them printed or use stickers or decals.

The best part of the Lego system is that we are not locked into only building prefab sets, we can and are encouraged to come up with our own visions and build them. You have many resources besides official sets to get parts you need: Lego Pick A Brick, Lego Bricks & Pieces, Bricklink, Brickowl, and even eBay.

 

[ReplicaOfLife]

They don't, and absolutely should not.

There are way more then enough possibilities for kids to play out violent scenes within the themes Lego offers, so there's no reason to create something that promotes the real, sickening deal.
Adults that like to create 'armies' with toys can turn to the 3rd party brands available.

[J_C]

No. Period.

[Littleworlds]

I say clearly not. For me the indiana jones theme was already quite border line. There are already more than enough military themed toys around and I enjoy the fact that Lego is something different and less war-focused. This said, themes like ninjago, star wars, nexo knight of course feature fighting, but are clearly based in fiction and are presented pretty comical (I just say yoda chronicles). Its similar with the old castle themes: The middle ages are just so far away in time that our idea of them is mostly romantic and nostalgic, with no real connection to todays world, its politics and the gritty, violent nature of war.

All this wont apply with a theme based on modern warfare and I certainly wont have my kids exposed to the glorification of violence such a theme would bring. Yes, I am strictly against military toys in general.

A piece of solace for all who want to built their tanks and bombers and whatnot: there are enough MOCs around and im sure instructions exist too. If adults want to play modern war: have fun, but please keep the kids out of it.

 

[dr_spock]

2 hours ago, Alfadas said:

Doesn't matter what we think, Lego's policies don't allow making modern military stuff. Or at least that's what I read somewhere, don't remember where though... 

That said, I would love it if they made official sets from WW2, with Tigers, Shermans, t-34s and spitfires, mustangs, messerschidts etc. 

It is documented on the LEGO Ideas website in the acceptable content guidelines. If you get to do a build for LEGO marketing, it is in the terms and conditions of the agreement you have to sign.

You are right. It doesn't matter what we think.  This topic comes up on a regular basis over the years on Eurobricks. LEGO is still sticking to their guns on no modern warfare and weapons policy and company values. 

 

[kibosh]

Whether they should or not is irrelevant.  They won't.  Period.  End of story.

[x105Black]

No.

But I would be excited to see a GI Joe licensed theme.

[xboxtravis7992]

Well, I would love to have some models of some Mustangs, Corsairs, Lightnings, Spitfires, and Zeros... And some tanks would look great in Lego models. But there are a few big issues with a "War Theme" that make me understand why Lego doesn't (and shouldn't) have one.

• The most famous wars of the 20th Century, World War One and Two, were for "to close to home" for the Danes who run Lego. Their country borders Germay, and is near Norway, Belgium, and France. These wars affected their countries far more than it affected even the US. Sure the US was involved in the war, but it was the Europeans who had to suffer their villages being bombed by either side, their religious minorities being rounded up by the Nazi's and executed, the death of brothers and fathers; and all the other ugly consequences of those two wars. Not to mention the period of history in post-war Europe that divided the continent between Democratic Republics to the west, and Communist countries to the east, separating families and friends due to political borders. As I said the history of those wars is "to close to home" for Lego to be comfortable portraying it as toys. 
• Battlefields are also very violent and ugly. Sure the argument could be made that Star Wars, Nexo Nights, Bionicle, Ninjago, and Superheros are all stories laced with violence; but they have a certain aspect of fantasy. When Alderann blows up in Star Wars we see the tragedy, but it isn't "real" in any sense. It is just part of the fantasy story telling. War is very real, and vicious. My Great-Grandfather died in WW2 on the USS Skill of the coast of Italy. Another ancestor died at Gettysburg. While it would be cool to have a Lego model depicting a World War Two minesweeper boat (such as the USS Skill was), it would also be disturbing to see the Lego play features implemented in such a set. Would there be an exploding function to represent the moment a torpedo hit that boat? Would there be a little catapult to fling sailors off the sinking ship?  Would it be a "battlepack" and include the German U-Boat that sank the ship, with functioning spring loaded missile shooters? While I think a static display MOC would be an appropriate way to depict that history, Lego's normal style of play sets would feel a little disrespectful to the memory of my progenitors who fought in those wars, and died in them. Another reason I feel war themed Lego is best left for Adult or Teen MOCers who are aware of the serious nature of war.
• Also when will we draw the line of a war being "to recent" if that pandora's box was opened? While WWII might seem far enough in our minds, what about wars such as the conflict in Iraq and Afaganistan, Vietnam, Bosnia, or Korea? How would a veteran of those wars feel to see an official Lego set depicting the war they were in? PTSD is a major issue among veterans, and the last thing we need is Lego triggering their bad memories. 

So to clarify, I think war is a very appropriate subject for MOCers to tackle (with respect and dignity). As I said earlier, I myself would love to have some WWII era airplane or ship MOCs for display. But by mass producing Lego sets, Lego is bound to cause to much controversy and cause issues. It sets the strange precedence that kids are playing with toys representing some of the darkest moments of human history, and recent ones too... I will be honest I was shocked and surprised when I saw Megablocks release a Call of Duty theme for the same reasons (not to mention the CoD games are themselves really intended for a 17 and older audience, so seeing it with a children's toyline made me think it is aiming for the wrong audience...)

Sorry for the long post, it just seemed all these ideas came into my head all at once and just felt like I had to state them. 

Edited October 6, 2016 by xboxtravis7992

[rodiziorobs]

I think xboxtravis absolutely nailed it n his reasoning; there is no place for a reenactment of real warfare in a children's toy, and TLG is aware of that.

That being said, however, I find the technological state of warfare at WWI intriguing, with old-world and modern machines side by side (I think of horses, and sabers alongside tanks and airplanes), and think that those elements could be very successful thrown in a theme together, if removed from the context of an actual war.

Probably the best context would be if Lego devoted themselves to a steampunk theme--the mix of old and new would fit well in that setting, lead to some interesting character designs, and allow for the inclusion of some "war"-like elements while staying on the safe side of the subject. Something somewhat akin to Monster Fighters, which frankly--and sadly--is probably as close as we will ever get.

[x105Black]

25 minutes ago, xboxtravis7992 said:

• Also when will we draw the line of a war being "to recent" if that pandora's box was opened? While WWII might seem far enough in our minds, what about wars such as the conflict in Iraq and Afaganistan, Vietnam, Bosnia, or Korea? How would a veteran of those wars feel to see an official Lego set depicting the war they were in? PTSD is a major issue among veterans, and the last thing we need is Lego triggering their bad memories.

Along with that, how long ago is long enough?  World War I was almost 100 years ago.  The American Civil War was about 150 years ago.  There are cavalry minifigures from the Civil War era in the Western and Lone Ranger themes that were released as far back as 1996, so that's about 130 years.  Maybe we'll see WWI sets in 2048.

26 minutes ago, xboxtravis7992 said:

I will be honest I was shocked and surprised when I saw Megablocks release a Call of Duty theme for the same reasons (not to mention the CoD games are themselves really intended for a 17 and older audience, so seeing it with a children's toyline made me think it is aiming for the wrong audience...)

Mega Bloks, while ostensibly a children's toy company, seems to release sets that are intended for an older audience, especially with licensed IPs.  As much as the age restrictions on the box might indicate a child will find them suitable for build and play, I don't think they are the audience the product is aimed at.

[bonox]

If you search bricklink for parts containing the word "weapon" you get over 350 parts, plus another 10 sets.

By all accounts, TLG have no problem with warfare! The concept seems to be anything related to what appears on television as far as modern conflict. which is why they've got no problem with lances and swords. Do TLG themselves refer to these parts as weapons? Or is it a bricklink term? I can see older differences where the designers may have referred to a part as a camera, but BL/users etc refer to it as a gun.

 

The other question I have is, 'is the no warfare stuff from TLG directed only at City type themes?' They've got no trouble with Knights, Bionicle, blasters and kinetic weapons on Spacecraft/ starwars etc. indiana Jones has an automatic pistol. Heck, they've even got a mace! I'd rather my kids didn't get an idea about flinging a spiked metal ball at other things!

Edited October 6, 2016 by bonox

[Aanchir]

2 hours ago, bonox said:

If you search bricklink for parts containing the word "weapon" you get over 350 parts, plus another 10 sets.

By all accounts, TLG have no problem with warfare! The concept seems to be anything related to what appears on television as far as modern conflict. which is why they've got no problem with lances and swords. Do TLG themselves refer to these parts as weapons? Or is it a bricklink term? I can see older differences where the designers may have referred to a part as a camera, but BL/users etc refer to it as a gun.

LEGO definitely has plenty of parts that they refer to as weapons. They have no objection to the concept of weapons. They used to have to hide their intent in themes like Classic Space where laser guns would be described as "sensors" or "radar arrays", but that changed a long time ago. And even back then they weren't opposed to including weapons like swords and spears in the Castle theme.

2 hours ago, bonox said:

The other question I have is, 'is the no warfare stuff from TLG directed only at City type themes?' They've got no trouble with Knights, Bionicle, blasters and kinetic weapons on Spacecraft/ starwars etc. indiana Jones has an automatic pistol. Heck, they've even got a mace! I'd rather my kids didn't get an idea about flinging a spiked metal ball at other things!

Yes and no. The LEGO Group's policy regarding violence and conflict isn't broken down by theme so much as by context. Violent conflicts in fantasy, historical, or sci-fi contexts are A-OK, because the LEGO Group has faith in kids' ability to distinguish between fantasy and reality and recognizes that many kids are drawn to good-vs-evil fantasy play as a part of growing up. Violent conflicts in realistic, modern-day contexts, or contexts that could be confused for the real, modern world, are strictly prohibited.

Note that themes like Agents and Super Heroes occupy a sort of a gray area. While many of their stories are set in a sort of fictionalized modern day, they include enough fantasy and sci-fi subject matter to make it clear that they exist in a sort of fantasy world, rather than a LEGO version of OUR world like the City and Creator themes often depict.

[Robert8]

I think it will happen at some point. Maybe in a couple of decades. Especially WWI

At some point, we'll see them just as historical minifigures (without all the controversy). They will be something like the S10 Revolutionary Soldier. 

I think we'll get minifigures, but not sets like tanks or such. 

[Giantorange]

I really like LEGO's stance on military sets.  There's plenty to build without it.

However, I do think they made a mistake when switching from the megaphone piece, to more realistic looking guns.  To me LEGO is a toy not a model, my challenge as a builder is to imitate real life within the constraints of the available brick.  I like the idea of a 'blaster' that I can use as a megaphone, or street light, or torch, or greeble, much better than a gun that is just a gun.

[Legoandteaa]

They have technically  made WW2 legos with Indiana Jones right

[Aanchir]

5 hours ago, Giantorange said:

I really like LEGO's stance on military sets.  There's plenty to build without it.

However, I do think they made a mistake when switching from the megaphone piece, to more realistic looking guns.  To me LEGO is a toy not a model, my challenge as a builder is to imitate real life within the constraints of the available brick.  I like the idea of a 'blaster' that I can use as a megaphone, or street light, or torch, or greeble, much better than a gun that is just a gun.

Well, that switch was only a significant change of course in the Star Wars theme. The Pirates theme has had realistic muskets, cannons, and flintlock pistols since 1989, and the Western theme had realistic revolvers and rifles since 1996. Part of me thinks the lack of dedicated blaster molds in the early days of LEGO Star Wars might have been a matter of budget as much as anything else — in the early years, LEGO might have wanted to focus their new parts budget for Star Wars on building elements that could be shared with other themes as well as more iconic, "irreplaceable" Star Wars elements like helmets, lightsabers, and droid parts.

To me watching Star Wars as a kid, I was never struck by the uniqueness of the blasters — they were basically just guns as far as I was concerned. So I can see why authentic-looking blasters were not a big concern in the early years. But once the budget allowed for it I don't feel like there was any compelling reason for LEGO not to introduce more authentic-looking weapons like the ones they already had in other themes.

[Mesabi]

13 hours ago, Legoandteaa said:

They have technically  made WW2 legos with Indiana Jones right

Technically, but again, this is fantasy violence. The Nazis in Indiana Jones are more interested in obtaining magical artifacts rather than doing what the Nazis actually did. Indiana Jones is Fantasy, so it gets a pass compare to real war themes.

 

And personally, I like Brickarms. It's fun just being able to buy the guns. Even if they are a killer to my wallet.

[anothergol]

On 06/10/2016 at 8:46 PM, rodiziorobs said:

I think xboxtravis absolutely nailed it n his reasoning; there is no place for a reenactment of real warfare in a children's toy

really?

This has been, and will always be a classic of children's toys, pretty much everywhere in the world. Ironically Lego had these, since - again because it's one of the most iconic toy ever - they were featured in Toy Story. I'd even say it may be declining (I don't know if today's kids play as much with these as I did when I was a kid) *because* that war is getting older (& so are movies & shows about it). Quite possible that today's kids play more with SWATs or whatever they can relate more to.

Yeah it's Lego's way of doing things, but it's rather hypocritical when you see that the majority of their themes is about good vs bad guys, fighting with weapons.

Edited October 8, 2016 by anothergol

[DPrime]

Anything in the modern era (WWI-present) is pretty much off limits, with the exception of maybe some of the planes. I'd love to see it happen (and quite frankly Lego's stance on this is a bit hypocritical), but I think a more realistic hope might be something more in the Napoleonic area? They've touched upon this with their various Pirates lines already, after all.

[Blondie-Wan]

I don't see how LEGO is doing something hypocritical.

[rodiziorobs]

3 hours ago, anothergol said:

This has been, and will always be a classic of children's toys, pretty much everywhere in the world. Ironically Lego had these, since - again because it's one of the most iconic toy ever.

I'm sorry, I should have been more specific; I see a huge difference between generic green army men and a Normandy Beach Invasion playset, and that difference is what I meant by my statement about real warfare.

Now, would it be possible for LEGO to produce generic army guys like that? Of course--as you noted, they already have. But there is also a difference between a monochrome plastic statue and a detailed printed action figure with interchangeable weapons. Even the ones TLG produced were void of a lot of detail, and--most importantly--were based on an external IP.

The same goes for the Indiana Jones army guys. Do those cross a line that TLG set for themselves? I think you could make a case they did. Because they are intrinsic to the license, perhaps TLG justified them as belonging to a fantasy world (rather than a representation of actual modern warfare) because of the IP, but to me they are somewhat hypocritical.

Edited October 8, 2016 by rodiziorobs
clarity

[gotoAndLego]

If you want models that Lego doesn't make, build them out of the small plastic parts that Lego makes.

[The lego fan]

Lego can't  and won't because of their rules they have to go by. But if we did, even though we won't, get an army theme it would be pretty cool- particualy the minifigures!

 

Edited October 8, 2016 by The lego fan