42083 - Bugatti Chiron

[Meatman]

16 minutes ago, Didumos69 said:

Perhaps, although I think the blue clutch gears are not only for better bracing the diffs. That should not be needed if static bracing is okay. I think for the rear differential the blue gear is used to route reverse underneath the differential while bypassing the gearbox and for the front differential the blue clutch gear is used to involve the front differental in the same routing. For the differentials the blue clutch gears are only preferred over normal 20t gears, because they are secured better with 3L frictionless pins than normal ones attached to an axle.

I have a feeling that the blue gear is only being used help the differential when it is under strain in the lower gears and is not being used for reverse at all. I am 99% sure that is all it's for(considering there are so many pics now that don't show it connecting to any other gear below it) Reverse is probably managed in the center shifting area by bypassing the gearbox altogether. I guess we'll see soon enough.

[Didumos69]

Just now, ibessonov said:

This would mean that 12z gear sticks from the bottom a little bit. Sounds unlikely

Not in the image, but the build in the image is not finished yet...

1 minute ago, Meatman said:

Reverse is probably managed in the center shifting area by bypassing the gearbox altogether. I guess we'll see soon enough

But how is the reverse output routed from DNR to rear differential while bypassing the gearbox?

[Meatman]

23 minutes ago, Didumos69 said:

Not in the image, but the build in the image is not finished yet...

But how is the reverse output routed from DNR to rear differential while bypassing the gearbox?

There could be 1 axle coming from the rear differential that bypasses through the gearbox altogether and leads directly to the center shifter and the front wheels(we know there is no 3rd differential) and on that same axle in the back could be a gear that connects to another gear beside it that drives the gearbox and goes to the center shifter. In one of the pictures, it looks like an 8 tooth gear is coming out of the rear differential and then driving a 24 tooth gear beside it. The axle the 8 tooth gear is on could continue forward and bypass the gearbox and go to the center shifter and there is your reverse gear. These are then switched back and forth at the center shifter.

While not as complex, that is how Paul did it on this. He is using the same axle for reverse and to drive the gearbox and they are both coming out of the rear differential. I am not sure if Jeroen Ottens did it in a similar way or not.

 

Edited May 30, 2018 by Meatman

[ibessonov]

13 minutes ago, Didumos69 said:

Not in the image, but the build in the image is not finished yet...

Gotta be honest - I don't know how to avoid 12z gear sticking here. Am I missing something? Differential is only 2 studs from the bottom, right?

[Tommy Styrvoky]

well there are 4 12z's accounted for in the transmission, 8 in total for the set, there could be more used in the rear spoiler mechanism, same with the 24z gears, one is in the transmission, that leaves 5 more for other functions. With the 16z there are 10 in the transmission, an additional 2 are visible in the instructions for the steering mechanism, 4 remain unaccounted for. Given some of this gearing will be used to transfer power to the engine, though other possible functions would include the reverse gear as mentioned above, or to actuate the spoiler.

[Ngoc Nguyen]

For a function involved vertical extension and retraction, usually either of LAs or worm gears are employed to prevent the accidental collapse caused by gravity.

I find it highly unusual that there are neither of them in this set.

 

Edited May 30, 2018 by Ngoc Nguyen

[Jeroen Ottens]

21 minutes ago, Meatman said:

There could be 1 axle coming from the rear differential that bypasses through the gearbox altogether and leads directly to the center shifter and the front wheels(we know there is no 3rd differential) and on that same axle in the back could be a gear that connects to another gear beside it that drives the gearbox and goes to the center shifter. In one of the pictures, it looks like an 8 tooth gear is coming out of the rear differential and then driving a 24 tooth gear beside it. The axle the 8 tooth gear is on could continue forward and bypass the gearbox and go to the center shifter and there is your reverse gear. These are then switched back and forth at the center shifter.

While not as complex, that is how Paul did it on this. He is using the same axle for reverse and to drive the gearbox and they are both coming out of the rear differential. I am not sure if Jeroen Ottens did it in a similar way or not.

I bypassed the gearbox with a separate axle in my DB11.

4 minutes ago, Tommy Styrvoky said:

well there are 4 12z's accounted for in the transmission, 8 in total for the set, there could be more used in the rear spoiler mechanism, same with the 24z gears, one is in the transmission, that leaves 5 more for other functions. With the 16z there are 10 in the transmission, an additional 2 are visible in the instructions for the steering mechanism, 4 remain unaccounted for. Given some of this gearing will be used to transfer power to the engine, though other possible functions would include the reverse gear as mentioned above, or to actuate the spoiler.

I think you could see a couple 24T gears in the teaser video on the engine assy.

[iulian2500]

The set will be AWD, in part list have 2 differentials, and a lot of other parts

[andythenorth]

1 hour ago, Ngoc Nguyen said:

For a function involved vertical extension and retraction, usually either of LAs or worm gears are employed to prevent the accidental collapse caused by gravity.

Might self-lock when over-centred, similar to some crane outrigger designs?

[Kumbbl]

8 minutes ago, andythenorth said:

Might self-lock when over-centred, similar to some crane outrigger designs?

Gravity might not be an issue if a linkage driven by the horizontal rotation axle of the gear selector is used... there are a lot of possibilities Even without LAs or worm gears 

[agrof]

While I do admire the innovation in the gearbox (yessss!), and the overall design of the LEGO Chiron, I noted I must add 2 more to the 7 deadly sins:

- Handbag (again, and also not even functional), not needed to explain...

- Dark Blue rims - really? I know they wanted to have it exclusive, but apart of Bugatti, it is LEGO too. So reusability is for the plebs? Not to mention, it is just tasteless color combo, there are so much nicer available. Actually I was fine with double tone blue, but I was believing black rims for default. 

 

Edited May 30, 2018 by agrof

[Maaboo the Witch]

4 minutes ago, agrof said:

- Handbag (again, and also not even functional), not needed to explain...

What functions could a handbag have, exactly? Theft alarm? Working lipstick, perhaps? 

Seriously, though, it's an odd choice for an accessory. The trunk in the Porsche at least made sense...

[agrof]

Openable, with storage space for some fun accessories (lipstick - why not, for real man who need 1500 PS and a cuuute leather handbag )?

Edited May 30, 2018 by agrof
p.s.: #metoo - am I safe now?

[charlesw]

@agrof Regarding the rims and the overall color scheme of the car, it is the presentation livery of the Bugatti Chiron back in Geneva 2016 ;-)

[Maaboo the Witch]

Just now, agrof said:

Openable, with storage space for some fun accessories (lipstick - why not, for real man who need 150 PS and a small leather handbag )?

Well, hey. If TLG can stretch to new gears and brake hubs, why not an actual handbag piece? 

[icm]

This question is kind of off-topic, but there have been a lot of small digital mockups of various imagined parts of the Bugatti in this thread.  Could someone point me to the best software for prototyping Technic models?  Is there a package that can simulate mechanisms in motion?  I've tried to build small mechanisms in LDD and Stud.io, but the part placement for anything but snapping bricks is very tedious and I can't figure out how to get a mechanism (say, a gear train) to move.  Thanks!

And back to the Bugatti - Has anyone been able to get a good look at the steering geometry?  Does it have Ackermann steering this time, or just the same old parallel steering links used in most medium-sized Technic trucks?

[valenciaeric]

Just now, icm said:

This question is kind of off-topic, but there have been a lot of small digital mockups of various imagined parts of the Bugatti in this thread.  Could someone point me to the best software for prototyping Technic models?  Is there a package that can simulate mechanisms in motion?  I've tried to build small mechanisms in LDD and Stud.io, but the part placement for anything but snapping bricks is very tedious and I can't figure out how to get a mechanism (say, a gear train) to move.  Thanks!

And back to the Bugatti - Has anyone been able to get a good look at the steering geometry?  Does it have Ackermann steering this time, or just the same old parallel steering links used in most medium-sized Technic trucks?

You can see the steering in the photo of the manual with the handbag. It´s standard system as used in Porsche. If you want Ackermann, you need to go to 42069 and not the models with hub components.

[agrof]

23 minutes ago, charlesw said:

@agrof Regarding the rims and the overall color scheme of the car, it is the presentation livery of the Bugatti Chiron back in Geneva 2016 ;-)

I am aware of the existence of this combo, is it clearly tasteless, right? 

@icm LDD is very handy, You only need to play with gear meshing a bit. Sorry did not read properly - rim shock.  You can find more useful hints in this subforum:

https://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?/forums/forum/128-lego-digital-designer-and-other-digital-tools/

Edited May 30, 2018 by agrof

[charlesw]

Black rims are for common people, not for the one able to afford such a car :-)

[brunojj1]

28 minutes ago, agrof said:

...

- Handbag (again, and also not even functional), not needed to explain...

Agree. A man doesn´t need a handbag. Anyway, you have to go with the time and not let the trunk empty. In my current WIP I´ve used this CASE (only 1 of them fits):

And they are quite functional btw, giving the chassis front more rigidity, prevent gears from sliding...

28 minutes ago, agrof said:

- Dark Blue rims - really? I know they wanted to have it exclusive, but apart of Bugatti, it is LEGO too. So reusability is for the plebs? Not to mention, it is just tasteless color combo, there are so much nicer available. Actually I was fine with double tone blue, but I was believing black rims for default. 

Black/alu rims and black rear would be a dream, but not everybody´s taste too. Simply paint or chrome them and you have your own exclusive.

 

Edited May 30, 2018 by brunojj1

[AVCampos]

4 minutes ago, icm said:

Could someone point me to the best software for prototyping Technic models?  Is there a package that can simulate mechanisms in motion?  I've tried to build small mechanisms in LDD and Stud.io, but the part placement for anything but snapping bricks is very tedious and I can't figure out how to get a mechanism (say, a gear train) to move.  Thanks!

You might want to take a look at SR 3D Builder.

[Didumos69]

3 hours ago, ibessonov said:

Gotta be honest - I don't know how to avoid 12z gear sticking here. Am I missing something? Differential is only 2 studs from the bottom, right?

This is what I mean, just to be clear (I used your lxf btw). Going by the image of the rear axles there is a second black 5x7 frame 2 studs under the 5x7 frame holding the differential. That's where the reverse axle might be located. The bottom of the rear end seems to have all pinholes free for such an axle. Not that important, we will know soon.

[Meatman]

19 minutes ago, Didumos69 said:

This is what I mean, just to be clear (I used your lxf btw). Going by the image of the rear axles there is a second black 5x7 frame 2 studs under the 5x7 frame holding the differential. That's where the reverse axle might be located. The bottom of the rear end seems to have all pinholes free for such an axle. Not that important, we will know soon.

See that 8 tooth gear? That is what connects to the gearbox and the axle that runs forward from it with the new light blue gray 3L connectors connects to the shifter and front wheel axle. You can see in one of the other pictures that you have on your bricksafe folder that there is a 24 tooth gear from the gearbox that will mesh with that 8 tooth gear. And there will be an output from the gearbox that will also connect to the shifter and then somewhere from the shifter it will transfer the selected motion back to the engine.

Edited May 30, 2018 by Meatman

[ibessonov]

16 minutes ago, Didumos69 said:

The bottom of the rear end seems to have all pinholes free for such an axle

Thank you for explaining! Sorry, probably I couldn't explain myself correctly =)

What I meant is that enge of 12z gear will be half a stud lower then car's bottom. I find this technique very unlikely, but of course it is possible. I would use such approach in MOCs if I had to, but LEGO designers are more restricted on what is allowed.

[Zerobricks]

Or maybe the 20 tooth idler gear has no function and is there to give us one more gear extra.

Edited May 30, 2018 by Zerobricks