Minifigs = Too much ATTENTION?

[Ron Dayes]

Hi all,

perhaps this has been a topic once - since i found none, id just give this a shot and would like to hear some of your opinions and observations on this.

TLG is as we know an old and awesome business and has developped rapidly since 2000s. Before that, the progress was fairly slow, yet for its time groundbreaking!
It was meant (and still is) a construction toy to play with plastic scale cars (also from other brands) and also had educational sets to learn about gears, techniques etc.
Therefore they introduced a number of structural parts to improve the building experience and later on (!) added the big figs and minifigs.
Now what i cant help but wonder is if the whole Minifig Focus the last 10 years (Series twice a year, increasing set prices for more SW limited figs etc) has created a gap of parts that should have long made it into sets since 2000 BUT didnt, because their "moulds" are occupied and produced for minifig related stuff mainly?

I especially notice the possible part gap in the "small element" fraction of tiles, plates etc. Only recently they released a 1x1 quarter circle tile, an "over the edge" element, smaller wedge plates - mainly with the SC and modular product line. Also new clips for "bar" related stuff was firstly added last year. Those parts are very simple in design and not too hard to "imagine" as a designer to be of great constructional usage. Stil there could be more! Not? Why hasnt there been a 2x3 tile earlier, why are there no 5 stud long tiles and windshields? Why did they discontinue the scala 2x2 with cutout quarter? They had ideas for sure, yet those disappeared, Its simply odd considering their possible value for any set...

My Thesis here is that the Minifigs have become such a popular collectors item and economically interesting for TLG, that TLG is less interested in producing more basic elements for construction builders (because a lot of people buy primarly for figs, the "build" itself is "a nice to have option" and works if new parts are made or not)
Compare how many new minifig accesories have been made over the last years (and are to be found on LDD) with the amount of tile and plate options up to 4 studs. Its a bit shocking in my opinion, considering LEGO is a construction toy. Take modulex for example - during its time, it was super advanced in slope shaping - where are those slope types in real bricks? we only have one smooth 1x2 slope - with grilles frankly Modulex has more!

A trip to legoloand can be eye-opening: FIGS everywhere " create your own" - incredible huge amounts of head designs, many items for them to clutch into their tiny hands - the variety here is like paradise for LEGO fans - just not so for system stackers: most of the stuff we know (and love) from the 90ies or earlier, perhaps in new colours...
And if i want to build a highly detailed minifig car using a 1x1 plate with 3 finger on it as a BMW logo to avoid stickering? Nada...hasnt been made despite its possible usefulness in the 90ies, but they made this recently (which is literally the same thing after they abandoned the finger hinges - for whatever reason i will never understand). Again, happened last year!
Some clone brands (i know, you are going to kill me for mentioning this^^) are a lot more imaginative when it comes to constructional elements. There is one part that TLG released this year that has been in a similar mould on some Sets from certain brands for quite some time now. When i saw it back in a day i found it only logical to inlcude, therefore i wondered why TLG didnt have it...hence, this write up :)
 

Now one could say "its possible to build around all these issues" - very true - but the same states for minifig accesories, does it not?! I can build a blaster or canon, yet there are 20+ diffrerent gun options avaliable. And dont make me start about swords and staffs...Also printing is getting rarer on bricks, yet super detailed on minfigs, and that aint cheap - so again, the "standard stuff" has to do with stickers. A Speedchampion car without stickers can be qutie a guessing game of who is who, since the bricks are very basic! Yet stickers on a minifig? Blasphemy  Actually why not? Its the same material, yet i think the attention is clearly on the Fig industry so its worth spending the resources on.
AND that is making us wait longer for new basic elements (probably longer then it should?)

Concluding: Figs are nice - i really like to use them - but do we really need so many new minifig accessories over new element bricks? Where is the "building spirit" now - shouldnt limitations make us more imaginative and be educational in some way? - perhaps only when it comes to everything else in LEGO?

what do you think?
 

[x105Black]

My opinion:

Minifigures do not receive too much attention.

That said, more attention could be given to producing new bricks and pieces for building, and producing them in a wider variety of colors.  As for prints, someone here once put it brilliantly.  To paraphrase: If the design is something I like, I want it printed.  If the design is something I don't like, I want it stickered.

[Stefaneris]

1 hour ago, Ron Dayes said:

My Thesis here is that the Minifigs have become such a popular collectors item and economically interesting for TLG, that TLG is less interested in producing more basic elements for construction builders (because a lot of people buy primarly for figs, the "build" itself is "a nice to have option" and works if new parts are made or not)

(...)

Also printing is getting rarer on bricks, yet super detailed on minfigs, and that aint cheap - so again, the "standard stuff" has to do with stickers. A Speedchampion car without stickers can be qutie a guessing game of who is who, since the bricks are very basic! Yet stickers on a minifig? Blasphemy  Actually why not? Its the same material, yet i think the attention is clearly on the Fig industry so its worth spending the resources on.
AND that is making us wait longer for new basic elements (probably longer then it should?)

Concluding: Figs are nice - i really like to use them - but do we really need so many new minifig accessories over new element bricks? Where is the "building spirit" now - shouldnt limitations make us more imaginative and be educational in some way? - perhaps only when it comes to everything else in LEGO?

what do you think?
 

Here's what I think:

The new parts TLG releases are nice, espcially while trying to build realistic looking MOCs. However when paying attention to details, minifigs can't be missed. When I place minifigs on a train or on the street, there should be some sort of a story and it should look like it's happening right outside in the real world. So different accessories are something which - even just as the icing on the cake - have to be there. They also add a lot more life in a city, imagine a place where every minifig either is a police officer or a firemen and doesn't have any every day accessories. Just to point out an extreme scenario from the early life of LEGO City.

Now about printing:

I don't know a single AFOL who would say that he/she prefers stickers over printings (if someone's here please say something). Printing on parts shouldn't be a difficulty considering the prints the make on exclusive sets, but as long as the minifigures make that much money, the place in the printing machine will be used for them. Just take a look to the new routemaster bus. There are stickers even though it's just simple letters on a tile.

"Where is the building spirit" you asked when there are limitations, well where's the building spirit in model railroading, model cars and all other where about everything is allowed if the result looks good. I think the process of building and overthinking building steps makes the spirit, if in the end everything falls together build it again but with other bricks. Building with Lego has still it's limitations if we stay puristic.

[Slegengr]

As much as I would like the focus to be different as an AFOL, we must remember that the LEGO company is a children's toy company.  I do not fully understand why they do not seem to reach out more to the AFOL market, as it seems like it could be significant, but they still make more money on children.  It is simple enough to understand that children love the minifigures and accessories.  They can relate to these parts the quickest with the human element attached to them.

As we look backward on our early childhood days with LEGO, it is easy to remember building but the focus was more on the play value of storytelling.  This is something the LEGO company understands quite well and utilizes in their business plan often.  Any theme that receives more than one set slot usually has the main characters distributed over the sets.  This is not to add focus to the minifigures, but rather is using the knowledge that children already are focused on minifigures and will therefore try harder to get all sets in a theme to have all characters in the story.

As an AFOL, I would like to see pieces like those mentioned above, but that is not truly where the money is.  I also think that if LEGO made a new piece for every possible architectural need, it would kill some of the creativity of the hobby.  The limitations of available pieces are part of what I find interesting and challenging about LEGO building.  Some obvious pieces could be added to the palette in lacking areas, but I do not want to see a new piece every time a new connection type is desired.

I have also noticed that LEGO has produced many of these "long awaited parts" in the recent years.  At this point, the long wait is not significant now that the piece is produced.  I still have to wonder if some of this is due to TLG noticing the growth in the AFOL community and taking some steps to try to keep everyone happy.  It would seem likely that we will continue to see these missing basic pieces added in the future.

So, my conclusion is that minifigures are not receiving too much attention, but simple building elements are not receiving enough attention.  As those elements begin to receive attention, then begins the game of trying to buy them in usable quantities and colors for my MOCs... this is a significant part of the MOC hobby.

[xboxtravis7992]

I think with licensed themes it makes sense to focus the attention on minifigures. So many films and stories we get in media are "character" based. Sure you can build an X-Wing with bricks, but the characters who interact with the X-Wing (Luke and R2-D2) are so essential to the story that omitting them or not highly detailing them is a serious issue. So that's the thing, licensed themes need to be character based for a reason. However themes such as Creator are what I think are build based. You can still have the Café Corner without any rare figures, and it is still a show stopping set. I think the Creator Expert line has done a great job showing how to use new pieces and creating great builds. When we are fortunate we seem to get D2C sets which have the great builds, the new parts, AND the great figures too! So in my opinion the only change we need is more consistently good builds in some of the licensed sets. Overall I am satisfied with the new parts we have been getting, and can't really see the need for much more specialized part molds for construction (beyond specialized systems such as Technic or CCBS which use far more complex part molds than System tends to use).

[x105Black]

The only real complaint I have regarding minifigure printing is that there is an abundance of full minifigure printing.  What I mean is that the print goes from torso to legs in such a way that using either piece independently doesn't look right.  For many characters, that's just fine, and in some cases it's preferable.  But I would like to see a little less of this to increase the versatility of the torsos and legs as independent pieces.

And I'd never want to see stickered minifigures.

[Darkdragon]

Just now, x105Black said:

What I mean is that the print goes from torso to legs in such a way that using either piece independently doesn't look right.

Yes!  Irksome for sure.

I'll never complain about too many figures, accessories, hair, hats, there's never too much.

I will agree that there are gaps, especially in tiles. However, 2017 and 2016 brought a lot to fill in those gaps, so it seems TLG does know what consumers want. Even us lowly AFOL.

[TheLegoDr]

It is my understanding they discontinued the finger hinges because the fingers were prone to breaking easily since so much stress was put inbetween them.

Figures were stickered back in the early 80s with the Castle sets. I'd be game for stickers for torsos if it meant I was able to get a lot of them to build up an army. Printed will always be better, but if the price goes down for stickered, I'd be open to the idea.

I think a lot of emphasis is put on the minifigure, but I think a lot of people are collecting them more and more, so LEGO is going where the people want. If LEGO sold figures individually (not CMF, but actual set figures), I would consider just buying them instead of buying whole sets, if the price were right.

[Foxw]

Well here's my ruppies worth.

Given that atm the biggest themes for TLG, aka the bread winners are "story themes", SW, ninjago, Marvel/DC etc, they need the character focus, so only makes good business sense to deliver it.

And on the system mold front.  I think it's less pandering to the demands of us AFOLS then it is we are now in an era where once atime fan builders are now TLG designers, and i recall reading once, in an interview, that new parts are basically come about due to.

 

Need. if x part is only way to achieve the result.

And even then only if it's feasible and the new part design can pass all required tests and meet versatility requirements.

from that i took it to mean the current focus on mold design is aimed at 'bang for the buck'.  aka the new part with 1 or 2 uses justi wont happen in system parts (which for me excludes minifig acc)

 

[Ron Dayes]

5 hours ago, Stefaneris said:

[..] minifigs can't be missed. When I place minifigs on a train or on the street, there should be some sort of a story and it should look like it's happening right outside in the real world. So different accessories are something which - even just as the icing on the cake [...]

"Where is the building spirit" you asked when there are limitations, [...]

Sure, minifigs are important. But i believe that their heavy investment into lots of special moulds for just some few charakters takes TLG own chance away of improving their construction/educational area (which is why LEGO happened in the first place). Now i know things change (and atm they do produce more basic stuff), but imo the constant oversaturation on minifig accessories is taking the building spirit away since there are NO limitations in that area (horsebrush to flute, clown hat to sombrero you name it...). Noone is gonna "build" a sombrero now knowing it exists allready. Thats what i meant here...
 

4 hours ago, Slegengr said:

 I do not fully understand why they do not seem to reach out more to the AFOL market[...]

[...] The limitations of available pieces are part of what I find interesting and challenging about LEGO building.[...]I have also noticed that LEGO has produced many of these "long awaited parts" in the recent years.  At this point, the long wait is not significant now that the piece is produced. [...]

I dont either - apparently its 20% of the market and growing. Less kids actually play physical toys these days, and if so, not as long as we did. A 20 % is a safe 20% ;)
I tend to think that they did listen last year a bit more than they used to - but considering the long term we waited for such "simple" parts to happen is just ridiculous - consider how many accessories we have gotten instead over the years. I bet a few less wouldnt have harmed or been managable without some moulds. Also builds could have been on our 2017 "level" (which really has improved) allready ten years ago. Therefore i was surprised to see how little has happened after i quit in the 2000s (and wondering where it all went - until i found the minifig category in LDD^^)

3 hours ago, xboxtravis7992 said:

I think with licensed themes [...] media are "character" based.[...]When we are fortunate we seem to get D2C sets which have the great builds, the new parts, AND the great figures too! So in my opinion the only change we need is more consistently good builds in some of the licensed sets. Overall I am satisfied with the new parts we have been getting, and can't really see the need for much more specialized part molds for construction (beyond specialized systems such as Technic or CCBS which use far more complex part molds than System tends to use).

Yes good point! But do they have to be renewed every year with some "minor tweaks" - its not just the printing and charakters, its also the continous "updating" them. I dont know how many luke skywalker figs exists, but i know that some reprints on some figs are so minor, i bet kids wont even notice. And there goes another basic brick print for that...
Been a long wait for these new basic parts - glad it happened! Yet system is the poorest of all, it does deserve more imo. System appears uncomplex because it is missing vital parts for some easy,incredible techniques...

3 hours ago, Darkdragon said:

Yes!  Irksome for sure.

I'll never complain about too many figures, accessories, hair, hats, there's never too much.

I will agree that there are gaps, especially in tiles. However, 2017 and 2016 brought a lot to fill in those gaps, so it seems TLG does know what consumers want. Even us lowly AFOL.

agreed! Yet still weird how long it took...

2 hours ago, TheLegoDr said:

It is my understanding they discontinued the finger hinges because the fingers were prone to breaking easily since so much stress was put inbetween them.

Figures were stickered back in the early 80s with the Castle sets. I'd be game for stickers for torsos if it meant I was able to get a lot of them to build up an army. Printed will always be better, but if the price goes down for stickered, I'd be open to the idea.

I think a lot of emphasis is put on the minifigure, but I think a lot of people are collecting them more and more, so LEGO is going where the people want. If LEGO sold figures individually (not CMF, but actual set figures), I would consider just buying them instead of buying whole sets, if the price were right.

A bummer - they are the only part that can get a bending in a 2 plate high smooth surface done and therefore vital for any car building.
Oh, i didnt know that about castle - i'd also be no enemy of stickers for figs - it also lets you reuse older/used/broken ones ;-)

2 hours ago, Foxw said:

[...]Given that atm the biggest themes for TLG, aka the bread winners are "story themes", SW, ninjago, Marvel/DC etc, they need the character focus, so only makes good business sense to deliver it.
And on the system mold front.  I think it's less pandering to the demands of us AFOLS then it is we are now in an era where once atime fan builders are now TLG designers, and i recall reading once, in an interview, that new parts are basically come about due to.
Need. if x part is only way to achieve the result.
And even then only if it's feasible and the new part design can pass all required tests and meet versatility requirements.
from that i took it to mean the current focus on mold design is aimed at 'bang for the buck'.  aka the new part with 1 or 2 uses justi wont happen in system parts (which for me excludes minifig acc)

 

yeah, allright - some nice info! Thanks for your input - still sad to see that development if it keeps going like that...

6 hours ago, x105Black said:

My opinion:

Minifigures do not receive too much attention.

That said, more attention could be given to producing new bricks and pieces for building, and producing them in a wider variety of colors.  As for prints, someone here once put it brilliantly.  To paraphrase: If the design is something I like, I want it printed.  If the design is something I don't like, I want it stickered.

Indeed - yet since only minfigs come printed and a few bricks here and there, we are down to stickering everything...

[Trekkie99]

Minifigs getting to much attention?

Nah. 

Bricks and pieces not getting enough attention?

Maybe. But as others have pointed there's been an uptick in new parts recently so maybe things are looking up. 

Stickers or prints?

6 hours ago, x105Black said:

As for prints, someone here once put it brilliantly.  To paraphrase: If the design is something I like, I want it printed.  If the design is something I don't like, I want it stickered.

∆ This ∆

As for all the other other points people brought up, I tend to agree. 

[AFOLguy1970]

I definitely think minifigs are a response to demand, especially in the licensed themes.  In Star Wars, the minifigs are probably the biggest reason why many people purchase the set(s).  For the most part, they sell the sets.   The Lego Movie, The Lego Batman Movie, and now the Ninjago Movie are very minifig centric, and each got their own collectible minifigure series.  With Creator, Architecture, and other lines, there is plenty of opportunity to focus on the vehicle, building, etc. rather than minifigs.  So, we can probably have the best of both worlds.  Although making things out of bricks is my most favorite part of the Lego experience, I must confess that the minifigures are fun to have and they can enhance the builds.  

[dr_spock]

Yeah,  minifgs get all the attention and minidolls get barely any.  New parts is nice but I think it is more fun to work within the current limitations and figure out NPU.  I designed and 3D printed my own parts before.  It wasn't quite as satisfying as solving the problem the purist way. 

 

[Foxw]

15 hours ago, Ron Dayes said:

Yes good point! But do they have to be renewed every year with some "minor tweaks" - its not just the printing and charakters, its also the continous "updating" them. I dont know how many luke skywalker figs exists, but i know that some reprints on some figs are so minor, i bet kids wont even notice. And there goes another basic brick print for that...

yeah, allright - some nice info! Thanks for your input - still sad to see that development if it keeps going like that...

Well, frankly I can't see Prints really applying to this comparison Ron.

Prints only require minor retooling of the equipment for every new print, unlike a totally new part which has enormous costs due to the die mold.  yeah they can tweak redo figures every time , specially in printing as it's negligible cost wise.

and let's also take into account that SW, which was always figure dependent (not counting the USC line)  has been credited as financially saving TLG's business, it came at the time they needed it most as i recall they were nearing a bust point. (course the mid to late 90's were bad on pretty much the entire toy industry, which in tern was credited to the global recession and entrenchment of the home game'ing systems which rapidly vied for the smaller % of consumer funds for luxury goods)

but while accessories do require new molds (so yes that would impact against the years "new mold" budget), i find it hard to believe they would not be wise to do things like create 2-5 new items and fashion them in a single mold. specially as accessories would not require the same level of testing a new building part does.

 

And ya, think it was in an interview in (I think) BLOCKS that basically laid out how new parts come to be.  a designer creates it, but then it has to get past review, prototyping, basic testing, revised, repeat untill it can pass. and as i recall, the review also looks at things like need and re-usability vs existing parts. iE can we already do this with existing parts, is it versatile vs very niche.

I think alot of this came from post near bankruptcy in eairly 2k, where they looked back, easily saw the huge library of 1shot molds from the 80's and 90's and realized it was business wise, bad.  Now some they have redone to make them more versatile, like the old castle wall part (now molded without the large stud area and last i saw used as engine cowlings in nexo's "arrons arrow fighter".

 

*looks at post* okay, clearly rambling, time to shut up.

[rodiziorobs]

On 7/21/2017 at 2:01 PM, xboxtravis7992 said:

I think with licensed themes it makes sense to focus the attention on minifigures. So many films and stories we get in media are "character" based. Sure you can build an X-Wing with bricks, but the characters who interact with the X-Wing (Luke and R2-D2) are so essential to the story that omitting them or not highly detailing them is a serious issue. So that's the thing, licensed themes need to be character based for a reason. However themes such as Creator are what I think are build based. You can still have the Café Corner without any rare figures, and it is still a show stopping set. I think the Creator Expert line has done a great job showing how to use new pieces and creating great builds. When we are fortunate we seem to get D2C sets which have the great builds, the new parts, AND the great figures too! So in my opinion the only change we need is more consistently good builds in some of the licensed sets. Overall I am satisfied with the new parts we have been getting, and can't really see the need for much more specialized part molds for construction (beyond specialized systems such as Technic or CCBS which use far more complex part molds than System tends to use).

I agree with this post completely.

As for new parts for figs (new accessories) versus new system parts, I think a lot of it comes down to scale. Usually they need to only be a single piece (sometimes two) because they have to fit in a minifig's hand. This can sometimes be done with existing parts, but it's hard to do without the item then being way too big, or looking incomplete or worse, unrecognizeable.

Take for example the whisk piece that came with the recent pastry chef CMF. No existing piece (or combination of pieces) would work. Period. A new piece had to be made.

Perhaps a less extreme example is the painter's palette. You could use a plate or something and it might be passable. But with that specific piece there is no confusion over what it is. As an added bonus, those same pieces can then be repurposed in ingenious ways that make us burst into joyful peals of "NPU!"--for example, that same palette being used as a lilypad in the upcoming Ninjago city. These new minifig accessories can enhance the system of bricks.

On the other hand, system innovations are often far more forgiving. The scale can be adjusted, the curves built using SNOT rather than flat stacking, other configurations made to achieve the same basic look that uses parts we already have. It is using those limitations to achieve the same look that is a mark of ingenuity and creativity, rather than having the perfect piece made just for this single occasion. System can be reconfigured to not need new molds in ways that minifigs cannot. (And frankly, I think we are actually a little too spoiled now with all the tile and slope combinations we have!)

Bottom line: pretty much every new piece lately is useful and adds to the system in meaningful ways, whether destined for system builds or a minifig hand. (If you don't believe me, Jack Stone and all the new pieces produced during his era would like a word with you.)

[IstakaCiti]

@Ron Dayes Even though I have not done so much research, I completely agree with you.

Sometime I don't even build them (mini-figs), however, as someone pointed out perhaps it's difference between kids and AFOL.

The one other important factor is that LEGO is venturing in movies, and they are completely based on Mini-figs, so that's a supply and demand equation in different sense.
 

Edited July 23, 2017 by IstakaCiti

[Trekkie99]

On 7/21/2017 at 7:32 PM, AFOLguy1970 said:

I definitely think minifigs are a response to demand, especially in the licensed themes.  In Star Wars, the minifigs are probably the biggest reason why many people purchase the set(s).  For the most part, they sell the sets.   The Lego Movie, The Lego Batman Movie, and now the Ninjago Movie are very minifig centric, and each got their own collectible minifigure series.  With Creator, Architecture, and other lines, there is plenty of opportunity to focus on the vehicle, building, etc. rather than minifigs.  So, we can probably have the best of both worlds.  Although making things out of bricks is my most favorite part of the Lego experience, I must confess that the minifigures are fun to have and they can enhance the builds.  

This. 

Also, as @rodiziorobs pointed out, minifig parts and their accessories are often times great for building.

[Aanchir]

I feel like LEGO dedicates plenty of attention to new building elements, to be honest. I'm often amazed at how many fantastic new building elements have come out in the past five or so years — new brackets, new hinges, new wedges, new curved slopes, new round plates, new detail elements, etc. "There could be more" is a rather poor argument for them giving building elements more attention, because there could ALWAYS be more, and even if they introduced only building elements and no minifigure elements there would still be a plethora of potential new building elements they wouldn't have the budget for.

Also, frankly, I don't think the need for a lot of the new building elements you suggest is in any way urgent — if LEGO can make do with existing building elements and a moderate number of new building elements and still come up with impressive new builds, surely fans can as well.

I don't particularly care if the number of new minifigure elements each year is truly necessary. Necessary or not, I think it's nice and generally doesn't cause any meaningful problems.

 

[Digger of Bricks]

On 7/21/2017 at 7:32 PM, AFOLguy1970 said:

I definitely think minifigs are a response to demand, especially in the licensed themes.  In Star Wars, the minifigs are probably the biggest reason why many people purchase the set(s).  For the most part, they sell the sets.   The Lego Movie, The Lego Batman Movie, and now the Ninjago Movie are very minifig centric, and each got their own collectible minifigure series.  With Creator, Architecture, and other lines, there is plenty of opportunity to focus on the vehicle, building, etc. rather than minifigs.  So, we can probably have the best of both worlds.  Although making things out of bricks is my most favorite part of the Lego experience, I must confess that the minifigures are fun to have and they can enhance the builds.  

Well, for me, the stars of the sets for Lego Cinematic Universe themes are the builds; I mean, they really are the spotlight stealers. Sure, many of them may be scaled down from their cinematic counterparts, but for instance, if you compare the builds of TLBM sets with that of usual DC sets, the movie builds are vastly superior. If anything, traditional DC sets forgo the quality of their builds to focus primarily on the figures, whom everyone insanely obsesses over.

As far as themes like Creator, Technic, Architecture, etc, those I do admire in concept; but I feel so much more could be done with them. In particular, Creator really should broaden their horizons as far as source material goes, expanding beyond modern real life source material and reaching out to include sets inspired after fantasy, historical, sci-fi, and other more fictional inspirations. This is something I've promoted on many other threads here on this forum.

[Vindicare]

You can thank, or blame, licensed sets for the minifig craze. Named characters we know & love from movies & other media, it's a no brainer we're going to want them. Plus, especially so with Superheroes, the builds seem like secondary...or even trietary. Look at 76078 Hulk vs. Red Hulk. It seems that those car things...were an after thought. Maybe kids like these oddball vehicles, but generally, it seems AFOLs aren't fans of the builds we get. Could the designers have not thought of a more appropriate backdrop? An 8x8 building half destroyed & perhaps a car that could be broken in two would've been worlds better. I know there's many factors that go into set design behind the scenes, but for $60, I think my idea above could've been pulled off petty well.

But then we get gems like 76057 Web Warriors: Ultimate Bridge Battle. Excellent set with a vast amount of new figs. So, we know TLG can do it. 

[Ron Dayes]

So to be actually a bit concluding here:

indeed, new basic parts did happen over the years!
But mainly lots of clips and brackets for their joints of "large action figures" a la hulkbuster, mixels etc - so again, to underline the minifig/actionfigure experience, not really "plates" or "tiles" for the primitive/intuitive ways of building with bricks in the realms of creator/houses etc.
That only happened this year with several sets- and im very thankful for it - yet, i was thinking that those parts were loooong overdue given the fact how simple their design really is.
Knowing its a 17 year span, im only suggesting that its safe to say the they might have ignored some really basic part ideas because of cost cutting. To keep the company running, they had to focus on more important aspects of lego customer appeal (figs and licensed themes). And they did well!

I believe, that with Speed Champions they are now balancing it a bit. They must have noticed how unforgiving it has been simply building cars since then in a "firm" manner with all the details, thus the many new part leleases related to that very series (wedge plates, round tiles, canopies - all "basic" category making life a lot easier and more detailed). There wasnt sets like these before the series, so these parts seem obiligatory to pull off these new advanced designs.
Same happened to modular Series this year/last year = new circled tiles and bricks, great parts for all situations and genres. All in all, positive development!

Figs:
I think its undeniable that figs are clearly in the focus and getting "the main attention" (and deserve so by market research and customer requests). Nothing to add here. Also explains the higher printing demand for them and why fewer "bricks" are printed.
Times change, its not just about construction and a system anymore - its more "action" loaded with "story" laid out by movies/clips for the customers to enjoy and replay.
If figs were less in focus, perhaps this would have turned out in the favor of more element bricks over the recent years *shrunks shoulders*

However, seeing the new releases im finding the balance between "classic" brick building and figs dominance is getting way better, hoping that the creator line keeps getting "more serious" with techniques each year. So the attention is not "too much" - just a lil dominant (and bit too much for my taste, but we all have our own opinions and preferences).

Cheers and thanks for all your thoughts and input to this thread!


 

Edited July 23, 2017 by Ron Dayes

[Lyichir]

6 minutes ago, Ron Dayes said:

So to be actually a bit concluding here:

indeed, new basic parts did happen over the years!
But mainly lots of clips and brackets for their joints of "large action figures" a la hulkbuster etc - so again, to underline the minifig experience, not really "plates" or "tiles" for the primitive/intuitive ways of building with bricks in the realms of creator/houses etc.
That only happened this year with several sets- and im very thankful for it - yet, i was thinking that those parts were loooong overdue given the fact how simple their design really is.
Knowing its a 17 year span, its safe to say the they might have overlooked some really basic part ideas. I believe, that with Speed Champions they noticed how unforgiving it has been building cars in a "firm" manner with all the details, thus the many new part leleases related to that very series (wedge plates, round tiles, canopies - all "basic" category).
Same happened to modular Series this year/last year = new circled tiles and bricks

Figs:
I think its undeniable that figs are clearly in the focus and getting "the main attention" (and deserve so by market research and customer requests). Nothing to add here. Also explains the higher printing demand for them and why fewer "bricks" are printed.
Times change, its not just about construction and a system anymore - its more "action" loaded with "story" laid out by movies/clips for the customers to enjoy and replay.
If figs were less in focus, perhaps this would have turned out in the favor of more element bricks over the recent years.

However, seeing the new releases im finding the balance between "classic" brick building and figs dominance is getting way better, hoping that the creator line keeps getting "more serious" with techniques each year.



 

It's extremely reductive to pretend as if there weren't useful new basic parts being introduced before this year. Every single year introduces all sorts of useful new building elements. Just because you don't see the value in all of them doesn't mean that a new SNOT element, hinge, or Technic part is only useful for minifigures or builds that supplement them. Seems to me that the problem is that your definition of a "basic part" is artificially limited to the specific parts you personally find useful, never mind a part's actual simplicity or utility.

[Ron Dayes]

1 minute ago, Lyichir said:

It's extremely reductive to pretend as if there weren't useful new basic parts being introduced before this year. Every single year introduces all sorts of useful new building elements. Just because you don't see the value in all of them doesn't mean that a new SNOT element, hinge, or Technic part is only useful for minifigures or builds that supplement them. Seems to me that the problem is that your definition of a "basic part" is artificially limited to the specific parts you personally find useful, never mind a part's actual simplicity or utility.

I didnt say they are not useful, they were just not very basic like the parts they released this year. Its a definition thing: How many new tiles (just tiles) have happened over the years? So thats something very elementary in the ranking of the systems bricks right now. A new clip design or some technic parts- super useful, no question, but thats allready more specified by quality and varieties of how to use it. Seems to me that i perhaps didnt underline that aspect enough...
I think its fair to question/discuss why the recent years have been filled with specialized moulds (also in aspect of minfig accesoires) and now we are receiving quite a larger number of parts that could have been made actually like 20 years ago (for mere construction) from a design point of view. I believe technic and clip part evolution to evolve with the experience of the designers which is harder to imagine shapewise and will take time to develop. A quarter circle shape however is an obvious shape imagination we use every day and would only seem logical to have as a part prior to highly andvanced ones, not?

[MAB]

I don't believe in your thesis. You only need to look at the modulars to see how there is a range aimed at older builders in which construction is at the forefront, with the minifigures and their accessories taking a back seat. And look at how the modulars have changed - they have introduced many new parts over the years, or changed the ways they used to use older parts, to improve the design asthetics in the modular series. Also what you call basic can be seen as fairly advanced, in the sense of not really necessary but nice for this extra decoration. The quarter circle tile is not really a basic item to me, it is a specialized part for decoration (of a build), just like some minifigure parts are decoration for minifigures.  A 2x3 tile, sure it will be nice, but is it really needed when you have smaller 2x2 and 1x2 tiles. They are the basics, extras are not basic. You could also say a 1x5 brick or a 1x7 brick should be made, as these are "basic" (but often unnecessary) but again they are specialised version of the basic existing bricks. Then there are bricks like the masonry bricks, again highly specialised decorated parts for buildings, when the basic untextured brick would have done.

 

I think you are right that minifigures and their accessories have improved, but not at the cost of building parts. Specialised building parts have also been introduced, which make buildings look fantastic, when basic versions would have done the job OK, but not so good looking.

 

[Ron Dayes]

3 hours ago, MAB said:

I don't believe in your thesis. You only need to look at the modulars to see how there is a range aimed at older builders in which construction is at the forefront, with the minifigures and their accessories taking a back seat. And look at how the modulars have changed - they have introduced many new parts over the years, or changed the ways they used to use older parts, to improve the design asthetics in the modular series. Also what you call basic can be seen as fairly advanced, in the sense of not really necessary but nice for this extra decoration. The quarter circle tile is not really a basic item to me, it is a specialized part for decoration (of a build), just like some minifigure parts are decoration for minifigures.  A 2x3 tile, sure it will be nice, but is it really needed when you have smaller 2x2 and 1x2 tiles. They are the basics, extras are not basic. You could also say a 1x5 brick or a 1x7 brick should be made, as these are "basic" (but often unnecessary) but again they are specialised version of the basic existing bricks. Then there are bricks like the masonry bricks, again highly specialised decorated parts for buildings, when the basic untextured brick would have done.

 

I think you are right that minifigures and their accessories have improved, but not at the cost of building parts. Specialised building parts have also been introduced, which make buildings look fantastic, when basic versions would have done the job OK, but not so good looking.

 

It is not about what "i personally need" or is defined as "basic" to me or anyone - its about ranking a system (maybe think outside of lego perhaps) defined by shapes of geometry, which is constantly evolving. Now if you would expand a system by varieties of shapes and form, where would you start if the first thing was a brick?
Back to lego: It began with squares and round parts, then added clips and special parts etc. we know the rest. The recent years have focused a heavy lot on more specialized bricks (wedge slopes that are curved, many more modified plate options...) since there was a lot to improve in certain areas - further away from the really standard basis that worked fine since the 80ies.

NOW in this year/last year we see that very old area of standard bricks receiving logical add ons (lets take the quarter circle again cause i find it a nice example). Perhaps look at this picture:http://www.newelementary.com/ hg. Looks basic/simple in a system/design point of view, could have been made years ago perhaps and thought of by anyone (if there was a need). Concering modulars - they also used many minifig accesories to the building advantage, like you said - but in design, they are not as basic as a quarter circle is. What is needed and therefore declared basic element, is not necessarly a basic element in design. Neither is what we havent needed before automatically a non basic brick (extra) - again from a design point of view if we know the system.

Now what i was theorizing: Has the minifig focus led to a shortage of "basic in design" bricks releases over a certain time period, in order to fulfill license accuracy? SW for example has been quite a deal, and if you see them sets improve over the years, you can clearly notice that it was more specialized bricks added instead of adding slightly changed elements to the older brick designs like this quarter circle. And the amount of licenses has grown enourmously (good for them!).
Im not condemming it a bad thing, it was needed (in case of SW) for this type of building - its just an observation i have and wanted to share. If you believe in it or not, of course up to you.
Obviously many new bricks are currently released, as are new figs - but only now have we received elements that are - how shall i put it - "back to the roots"? The attention was clearly not on them (otherwise we would have had them ages ago, despite if this was "urgently" needed or not - simply by looking at its design rank). That led me to believe, that the main focus on license and figs parts MIGHT HAVE (past) overshadowed the focus on adding more options to the older elements (which do tend to be the basis for all).
SInce now we are getting these many new round tiles - and perhaps even more simple elements (check http://www.newelementary.com/2017/07/new-2018-lego-part-spotted.html#morethis), it might tell us: "the machinery is working fine, focus on basic element can happen on a similiar production balance now", which would underline the thesis. Of course, a theory, no proof - open for discussion...