Brethren of the Brick Seas (BoBS) Introduction and Starting Thread

[Gideon]

And I totally agree with you, that the game puts a lot of emphasis on quantity, which is why he have seen quite a few, in my personal opinion, "rushed" builds with little fine tuning, and only few of real high quality so far. However I think that will change over time, when a) the initial enthusiasm ("ah, new game, cool, I will immediately have to get started!") has flattened down a bit and b) there will be challenges to win, thus requiring and especially rewarding real quality (like the Kaliphlin Civil War did in GoH).

I agree that it is the challenges which I have the highest hope to see high-quality builds from, since then it will be a value for the builder to work on the quality also.

The Kaliphlin civil war was a bit mixed in my opinion, the wargaming category was a bit too much quantity over quality which made the forum too chatty to follow. On the other hand, some builders produced a number of stellar builds regardless

Looking back at the initial sigfigs and builds of GoH it's a lot similar to what we see here now, so I have a lot of hope that when the initial enthusiasm has faded some builders who posted sigfigs initially will probably never post something again and some builders will be new stars of the Pirate scene!

[Maxim I]

I agree that it is the challenges which I have the highest hope to see high-quality builds from, since then it will be a value for the builder to work on the quality also.

The Kaliphlin civil war was a bit mixed in my opinion, the wargaming category was a bit too much quantity over quality which made the forum too chatty to follow. On the other hand, some builders produced a number of stellar builds regardless

Looking back at the initial sigfigs and builds of GoH it's a lot similar to what we see here now, so I have a lot of hope that when the initial enthusiasm has faded some builders who posted sigfigs initially will probably never post something again and some builders will be new stars of the Pirate scene!

Amen :D

I couldn't follow the stream of MOC's that were made and I just lacked the place and time to build back then, so I lost track of GoH since then...

[Kai NRG]

Do keep up the constructive criticism Gideon - I think it will just take time until other members are comfortable with giving it. I've been rather too busy for much commenting (on MOCs) myself, but hopefully things will slow down (not in BoBS, just for me in general).

[Captain Dee]

Viewing other builders' material and constructive criticism are how people learn to improve, and such input should be welcome I would think. I'm hesitant to be very critical but I try to provide some input on occasion. Unfortunately I often miss small details, and dark areas, due to the fact that the nearly useless dial-up connection on my PC forces me to view on my small-screen phone :( I also think that the initial "rush" will wear down after a while and things will look and feel a little different. Gideon, I think your comments have been very good.

[Gideon]

I couldn't follow the stream of MOC's that were made and I just lacked the place and time to build back then, so I lost track of GoH since then...

The pace of GoH has decreased a lot since then, I'm afraid that you are not the only one who lost track and that we might have lost a few members for good because of it...or that some people are still working on catching up, for me it took several months to catch up

The question I raised in this thread was not primarily regarding the game mechanics but that is also a concern of mine that builders will spam the forum with the bare necessities to complete each task in the EGS instead of focusing on fewer builds of higher quality and that the forum will be too busy to keep up with. I'm not sure what those of you who are playing AG think of how AG turned out, but I at least gave up trying to follow it when everytime I went in there I had 2-3 pages of unread threads and therefore never joined that. But I've seen some builds coming out of there which have been top notch so at least the top quality is very high there

[Elostirion]

Maybe BoBS needs a similar rule to the Kaliphlin Civil War of at least two (?) from veteran builders?

[SkaForHire]

I know blacksmith is in the artisan description, but it is very hard to build a weaponfactory on 16x16 studs...

True, the classification is not a hard rule, I was just giving my opinion.

BTW it is a bit early, but is there anywhere we can see our EGS points so as to make a bit of planning ahead? Thanks beforehand.

I am under the impression that all builds are free-builds except those built for challenges which specify to the contrary, whether the builder is enrolled in the EGS or not. Licencing is something which comes afterward and does not change its status as a free-build (Ska or someone please correct me if I'm wrong about that).

As to the EGS points, they won't be tallied up until the end of each month, so if you wish to know how much you have before then I'm afraid you would need to calculate it yourself, which is encouraged if you're planning on buying a non-free licence for a build before the month ends

Garm is right. Yes, go ahead and calculate your DBs -- the only thing I would not add in my total was a 3rd free build that has the varying award. You can always spend what you have earned so far this month.

After reading the rules thoroughly I am left perplexed to one thing: to become a mayor do I simply ask for a piece of land on the map (or undiscovered) and pay for the buildings, or am I missing something? Thanks.

You are correct. This is how you do it in the basic and EGS rules. Now, some factions have additional rules that they like their members to follow. One last thing, the piece of land has to be in the Sea of Storms or East (in New Terra).

Can someone let me know what class the boat in this topic would be listed as? And if it had 4 cannons, what would it be?

I think it could fit any class 1 and maybe class 2 -- you have to remember, that these are more game designations than actual representations, it depends on what you want the vessel to do - trade, raid, or be ok at both (for its class level)

Quick question about owning land:

Does this mean a small plantation should have:

a) at least a size of 32x32

b) at max a size of 32x32

c) roundabout a size of 32x32 (so that 22x28 would be perfectly fine, as would be 48x48, but neither would be 10x10 nor 60x50)

d) exactly 32x32

e) exactly 32x32 at its widest place (e.g. a circular base with a diameter of 32)

?

This is max size, it does not have to be square, there can be limited overhang. However, it is also the minimum size for the next level up (that may not be clear by the charts)

I don't know if people are starting to see me as picky in my comments? But I've tried so far in the spirit of GoH to include constructive criticism when commenting the builds. Since most comments otherwise so far only have been praise, I'm starting to wonder if constructive criticism is not wanted here?

The game mechanics seems to value quantity and size over quality, so I think it's up to the participants of BoBS to help ensuring the quality of the builds as well. I also think it's up to the participants to help ALL fellow builders, both new and seasoned, to improve their building and presentation skills

I'm at least going to expect you to give me ruthless feedback to help me improve since this is completely new terrain for me

Looking back at what GoH has done for some of its longtime participants, who have gone from average TFOLS to regulars at TBB etc, I'm looking forward to the builds we will see coming out of BoBS in the coming years! And I hope the community here wants to make that happen

Let the comments rip, building can only get better.

I for one always appreciate constructive criticism and things to improve on.

And I totally agree with you, that the game puts a lot of emphasis on quantity, which is why he have seen quite a few, in my personal opinion, "rushed" builds with little fine tuning, and only few of real high quality so far. However I think that will change over time, when a) the initial enthusiasm ("ah, new game, cool, I will immediately have to get started!") has flattened down a bit and b) there will be challenges to win, thus requiring and especially rewarding real quality (like the Kaliphlin Civil War did in GoH).

perhaps I am a notorious task master when it comes to these projects... Ok, so here was the compromise when the EGS came about - Everyone, despite building ability, should have an equal chance in the "game" portion of the project. That is why each of the first builds are worth 10 DBs. After that, people are encouraged to put their best MOC and story forward. Although this system encourages everyone to build at least 2 builds a month, it does eventually award for better quality. Also, the challenges will be quality based rather than quantity, so we have some balance there.

The pace of GoH has decreased a lot since then, I'm afraid that you are not the only one who lost track and that we might have lost a few members for good because of it...or that some people are still working on catching up, for me it took several months to catch up

The question I raised in this thread was not primarily regarding the game mechanics but that is also a concern of mine that builders will spam the forum with the bare necessities to complete each task in the EGS instead of focusing on fewer builds of higher quality and that the forum will be too busy to keep up with. I'm not sure what those of you who are playing AG think of how AG turned out, but I at least gave up trying to follow it when everytime I went in there I had 2-3 pages of unread threads and therefore never joined that. But I've seen some builds coming out of there which have been top notch so at least the top quality is very high there

I am not sure it was the pace, as much as the one side dominating things and people just giving up. Here, if you are looking for scoring DBs on builds, it would be better to do it gradually. Also, leadership reserves the right to reject shotty applicants. Whereas we probably will not reject early "small" licenses, I think the standard for Medium and people's 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc... small licenses will probably raise quickly. Basically, if you are figbarfing or MOCing extremely under your talent level, your faction's ministry might come and reject your license (perhaps even taking the administrative fee)

[Garmadon]

I completely agree with Gideon - it is quality over quantity that counts, and receiving constructive criticism is one of the best ways to improve I certainly hope more and more members will be posting those sort of comments here. I don't think, however, that the EGS will provoke something like the barrage of builds every week on AG or the torrents which the Kaliphlin civil war produced, both of which made it very much more difficult to encourage quality and post helpful criticism on anything like most of the builds.

I really do hope that the EGS will be something extra for the fun of it and a good story-producer, rather than the sort of game where people build almost more just to stay on top than to improve. But as far as I have been able to observe so far, that (the former) and a desire to improve has been the basic idea of most of those who have joined so far, so I think we're headed in the right direction

[blackdeathgr]

Regarding quantity over quality issue:

We are but a start of this project. If we want to be part of EGS and not miss a month's payment, we were "permitted" to build in a month's duration, more or less the following creations:

- sigfig

- free build A

- free build B

- Residence

- some kind of business

- some kind of ship

- challenge Ia

- challenge Ib

This obviously pushed quality a bit aside, especially for people like me who still learn from constructive criticism and/or more important from trial and error while building. Things will be stabilized during the following month when most of us will have build our first dwellings and enterprises and will lay back a bit, get our BoBS bricklink orders or our LUGBULK orders, get ninjago pirate stuff (Eww! for some of you) :P etc etc.

Between some of the most talented builders specialized in this Age of Sails era and all these enthousiasts that jumped on this ship, i have no fear :)

Keep building, watch what other build (techniques and part usage) and only then will you master the art of brick Piracy!

Btw, where are all these pirates?? Oleon prisons are empty so far!!!

[Garmadon]

Regarding quantity over quality issue:

We are but a start of this project. If we want to be part of EGS and not miss a month's payment, we were "permitted" to build in a month's duration, more or less the following creations:

- sigfig

- free build A

- free build B

- Residence

- some kind of business

- some kind of ship

- challenge Ia

- challenge Ib...

I just wanted to mention that the first two free-builds could be the residence, business, or ship (remember, all builds are free-builds before they are licenced), though obviously you could do the extra builds if you wanted to!

[blackdeathgr]

I just wanted to mention that the first two free-builds could be the residence, business, or ship (remember, all builds are free-builds before they are licenced), though obviously you could do the extra builds if you wanted to!

True! My mixup :)

Bah, the more MOCs, the better we become :) Numbers before quality! Especially at food. And drink.And...oh well... :P

Edited January 5, 2016 by blackdeathgr

[Gideon]

I am not sure it was the pace, as much as the one side dominating things and people just giving up. Here, if you are looking for scoring DBs on builds, it would be better to do it gradually. Also, leadership reserves the right to reject shotty applicants. Whereas we probably will not reject early "small" licenses, I think the standard for Medium and people's 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc... small licenses will probably raise quickly. Basically, if you are figbarfing or MOCing extremely under your talent level, your faction's ministry might come and reject your license (perhaps even taking the administrative fee)

I am fairly sure that the problem with the Kaliphlin Civil War was that it was really three different things happening at the same time: An ordinary challenge (cat A, B & D) and a wargame which in turn was split into two different mechanics. I think one of these three things at one time would have been fine, but especially the Warzone AND Guerrilla mechanics combined made it worthwile to produce quantity over quality and hard for builders to keep up. The fact that some guerrilla builds didn't even face counter attempts definitely shows that it was too much happening in a too short time frame. But I'm not going to deny that we saw some world-class builds (especially from one side, not mine ) in that challenge despite the guerrilla mechanics pushing for quantity.

Anyway, I agree that the first few builds here should have a low minimum requirement on quality to not scare builders off and I really like that you are saying that the judging will be more demanding for the more valuable licenses

[MKJoshA]

If I can throw my two cents in regarding BoBS, Kaliphlin Civil War, and AG since I am/was a part of all 3. The faster pace of builds does mean I lose track of what everyone is building. And sometimes people's stories, cool collabs, or amazing builds get missed because I can't keep up with it all. But I love the game mechanics! Being a part of a team is what kept me building for the Civil War, is what keeps me building for AG, and is what drove me to sign up for BoBS. I think BoBS strikes a good balance between quality and quantity. I'm sure there will be improvements as we go along, but I think we are off to a good start.

[Gideon]

I also think the EGS is a good idea since it will encourage builders to flesh out the world nicely. I'm simply eager to use the lessons learned in other recent games here at EB to balance it better

[Maxim I]

To add my two cents (together with MKjoshA, we already have 4 cent!!!! yeeeeeey!!!), I like it that the moment you post more than 2 things a month, you need approvals of other factions :)

[gedren_y]

<rant> My big issue with the KCW was the lopsided voting pool. My GA should have won, given I had a cleaner build and my story was well executed. The other builders' story was barely legible. </rant>

If you don't want to bother with complicated game mechanics, you don't have to. I'm not. Just be sure to fill out the freebuild webform. It's not hard.

[Tuben]

Is it okay to post your intro like a free build? :)

[SkaForHire]

I agree, if we run another grid war challenge in GOH (and that may happen here as well) the guerrilla attacks will be changed significantly. We have another war mechanic for GoH that we will probably try first, but that is not for a while.

[Bart]

Please don't hold back to give the constructive criticism. I appreciate that a lot.

I've never participated in any of the other things going on before, don't hold back using the lessons for my sake :)

But for me this BoBs got me back on here and being active with Lego, after being idle/sleeping for a long while, and I hope that it will keep me going and improve.

The game part in it is the thing that will keep me going.

I just picked up 70409 Shipwreck defence and 70410 Soldiers Outpost.

Together they where (for me) the best option looking at price and bricks I got out of it. (I finally got some gold shoulder boards and blue coats :)

They also had 70412 Soldiers Fort in the store, but I thought it was the lesser option. Only to bad that they always run the fancy minifigs in the expensive sets.

Bart

[Tomsche]

Well, tossing some more cents in the pool, as a mediocre builder (time, space, lack of skill, pick whatever reason you want from the list :-) ) I also have been involved in all three projects so far, and never really cared about `points`, gold or whatever earned.

GOH is one I love because there is no time pressure for anything outside the `book challenges`, which apart from the wargame so far have been timespread well enough.

My problem with AG was more one of high turnout required for the map, with it weekly needing a build in order to keep your company `in the arms race`, causing numbers to swing the pendulum more then quality. That is why i quit it the moment I earned enough for the tag (I`m tag-dicted lol).

When initially reading this, I sigend up at first to do the occasional freebuild, as having 20 years of Historical wargaming under the belt before coming out of my Lego `dark ages` (Age of Sail until ACW where my periods and games of choice), and loving the Lego sailing ships made this an appealing project. I see myself dabbling along in this for quite a while, without sidetracking my Castle stuff.

I did sign up for the EGS in the end after all though, just to give myself a bit more of a game feel, even though I just build for personal fun (and to carry it along to events, collabing probably again this year with Maxim I and Kabel amongst others).

BTW, I take it that in order to get fleets formed with traders, escorts etc, we just do this in the `open` Empire threats? I can imagine spies around aplenty in the Age of Sail, not needing specific private chat channels like in AG?

[Gideon]

I like it that the moment you post more than 2 things a month, you need approvals of other factions :)

Exactly, and when you are forced to build more than one or two builds a month to keep up with the game it will scare a lot of us away from the game altogether.

But I think there are several layers of BoBS as I've understood it so far, so I'm pretty hopeful that it will attract builders of different skill and time on their hands.

My biggest fear is that there will be way more threads to read and comment than most of us can keep up with...

Only to bad that they always run the fancy minifigs in the expensive sets.

There's always BrickLink if you're only after the minifigs

BTW, I take it that in order to get fleets formed with traders, escorts etc, we just do this in the `open` Empire threats? I can imagine spies around aplenty in the Age of Sail, not needing specific private chat channels like in AG?

I really hope most of this game stays open, since as soon as you move things into private channels you lose a lot of the community. My opinion is that private channels should only be used for short-time cooperation like specific collabs or maybe sides in a challenge IF there is to be some kind of coordinated action there, but not as a general way of running things.

[Kai NRG]

Is it okay to post your intro like a free build? :)

If you mean to give it it's own topic in the form - go for it! That seems to be all the rage. Speaking of which... still have to do one of those myself...

...BTW, I take it that in order to get fleets formed with traders, escorts etc, we just do this in the `open` Empire threats? I can imagine spies around aplenty in the Age of Sail, not needing specific private chat channels like in AG?

...I really hope most of this game stays open, since as soon as you move things into private channels you lose a lot of the community. My opinion is that private channels should only be used for short-time cooperation like specific collabs or maybe sides in a challenge IF there is to be some kind of coordinated action there, but not as a general way of running things.

The leadership discussed the whole PM question and we pretty much agree with Gideon's temporary measures idea. I think it would be great if members interested in collaborating on the MCRA or anything else would do their own PMs for as long as necessary. Here is the appropriate question from ESL's FAQs:

20. I want to arrange a trading company, settlement expedition, voyage, duel, etc., with a few other members. How can I talk to them privately without giving away my plans to everyone?

Use the PM (Personal Messenger) function. Depending on the amount of posts you have made on EuroBricks, you will be able to PM from 1-5 other members. If you want to speak to more members than you are able to PM, contact a faction leader and he will set up the conversation for you (or get someone else to).

[TitusV]

We're almost up to a Doubloon! What i wanted to say: KCV did make some of the best builds I've ever seen, but IT was too much. I deliberately decided to not sign up, so I could keep enjoying MOCing. And it's not like i post only once a month

but as MKJoshA said, IT are the teams that keep me building (fun too, of course). The collabs with Bregir or Maxim (and Faladrin) are just awesome!

and keep up the constructive criticism! We all like to hear:

lovely build!

But we only improve if we get something like this

not bad, but i think you can better: try some more texture, use the technique from this build...

I must say I don't always do that, but i try to

[Kai NRG]

IDK, I get tired of the

Great work!

I don't really think there's too much reason to worry about this being like the Kali Civil War or even like the first few weeks of AG. There's no weekly deadline, and though I dare say the end of the first month will be a bit flurried, there is a pretty big difference between BoBS and both AG and the Kali Civil War - those two were/are a "let's win this game for our team!", but BoBS has no game winning deadline. That's neither good nor bad in itself, but it won't encourage huge slews of builds every weekend.

[TitusV]

Indeed, Kai! Altough the sometimes I don't know anything better to say (i.e. SK's Nordheim Keep)

I've not actively participated in AG, but I think taht after 1 or 2 months the activity here will really slow down