Winter Village Sets - Rumours and Discussion

[Yooha]

Please TLG, make a reindeer mold, or make a statement that you will/won't do one! I want this debate to be over!

[Rick]

Please TLG, make a reindeer mold, or make a statement that you will/won't do one! I want this debate to be over!

I think they made a clear statement they won't (for now) by not doing it for Santa's Workshop, so in that sense the debate is sort of over.

[Darth Punk]

You are making Apples and Oranges comparisons. It is not whether or not they have made a limited use animal in the past. It is the business case surrounding that tooling. Also keep in mind that TLG's entire process and view on this changed after the 2003 near bankruptcy. The root cause of the financial crisis was they simply lost track of how much things were costing vs what the return on them was. They had far too many unique or low use molds that ate up funding and produced no revenue. They were selling major sets with expensive parts at a loss. starting around 2005 they retired almost half their old molds and put in much more stringent guidelines and reviews for new tooling.

-foal, 2 sets - this depends on which Foal you are talking about? The Friends one? If so that was made mainly as part of the Friends line, which is all retail product, so high production volume. Further it was mainly used in a higher volume higher margin small "impulse buy" set . All of that makes the math favorable for it.

-elephant, 2 sets (3 unique moulds I believe) - This was a pre 2003 set of tooling that they lost money on. Safe bet is it has been retired. (Unless you are talking about the Duplo Elephant, which has a higher product lifecycle, higher volumes etc than normal Lego System sets)

-goat, 1 set - The Goat is an outlier and probably a bad gamble on their part. It at least was made for a regular retail set. Part of the second or third wave for a well selling product line. I am kind of surprised we have not seen it again. Maybe a mold failure?

-ostrich, 1 set - Was made for a Licensed Retail set with a direct current movie tie in. This is a part that was made specifically for that and had the underlying financing to do it.

-camel, 2 sets - See above Ostrich. Licensed Movie Tie In used for regular retail sets. They probably made 4 million Camels.

-big shark, 2 sets - 2 Regular retail sets. In those two sets they had enough use to justify creation of the part and amortization of costs.

-seagull, 1 set - It is used in a CMF fig. The economics of those are wildly different than other Lego products. Typically a new mold or special item such as a big fig cannot add more than 5% to 10% of the retail price to the cost of the set. (We all see how people scream at a high price per piece ratio). Anything above that quickly deflates the perceived value of the product unless it is something really obvious and special, like a floating boat hull or train with motors. The CMF's however? These are probably TLG's highest margin product line. They have a huge revenue return on roughly a 1 foot cube of shipping, warehouse and retail display space. New parts for them can run up to 25% to 50% of the retail price. And they are made in extremely high volume. You cannot compare tooling for CMF with tooling costs for anything else. They operate on entirely different business models.

-Chihuahua, 1 set - Once again a CMF piece. CMF economics apply. Now once a part is created for CMF's City and D2C does frequently benefit from it. But a molded Reindeer would probably be a little big for inclusion in a CMF packet.

I do enjoy reading your posts. You have a far greater nack for explaining this stuff than I do.

[Faefrost]

Please TLG, make a reindeer mold, or make a statement that you will/won't do one! I want this debate to be over!

They have made plenty of statements regarding this. Not the least of which are the rules and guidelines for CuuSoo/Ideas. Plus numerous statements from designers etc. these have nothing to do with any specific part such as a reindeer. No new parts for Exclusive, D2C, Ideas, or limited release sets. (Unless the new part is already designed and being made for regular retail sets. Such as the LotR Eagle and the PR scooter). If they have a clearly quantifiable specific need for a Reindeer in retail product we will get a reindeer. But they will not make one just for a Winter Village set. If ever they have a full retail theme that benefits from the mold we will see one, until then brick built it is. Probably the best hope would be some sort of Nordic theme that is not a license. The opposite end of the problem when dealing with animals and characters is you can finally get the mold you want, say Sven from Frozen, and find it locked to the specific theme as a specific named identifiable character.

Edited May 19, 2014 by Faefrost

[Ardelon]

I'm among those disappointed with not having a molded reindeer. But I admit, the brick-built offering is clever and cute, and adds to the building experience. Even so, I wonder whether they wouldn't look a bit more accurate with eyes on the sides rather than on the top/front of the head.

I think a generic deer mold isn't that unlikely. From there it's a much smaller step to recolor the mold as a reindeer. Deer could appear in City sets (some kind of outdoors/hiking subtheme, or conservation/environmentalism, or a zoo), Castle, or even Wild West. A reindeer recolor could appear in a future Castle or Arctic subtheme, and then be reused in Winter Village sets. And that's only non-licensed sets.

Back to the set, I don't find it very interesting from the one pic so far. A back view might change my mind. The minifigs aren't much to look at either, with the glowing exception of Mrs. Claus (especially the hair) - the others look like an attempt to use up surplus parts.

[Xyver]

This debate is interesting, but it does pose a question for me.

How many of the Winter Village sets does Lego actually make for a run?

I was never really interested in the line (being that Christmas is the middle of summer down under and snow is non-existent for most of the country, even in winter) until I won the Bakery in a speed building contest. But the sets are very good builds and always enjoyable. Last year's Market was great, that merry-go-round is wonderful. I was too late to get the Toy Shop and Post Office, and have been reluctant as yet to pay the higher after market prices, although I really should to complete the collection.

I will be picking this one up when it comes out, and like other people have said, will add it to my WV display as a Santa's Grotto area, probably with a big chair for the kids to get their photo taken with Santa.

[just2good]

Just wanted to point out, LEGO never makes "exclusive" moulds for D2C/polybag/promobag sets (except that weird BR minifigure), unless the mould will be used later that year (indicating they made it for another theme, but it was easily dabbled into the exclusive set). Prove me wrong.

Anywho, I wonder, is there a light brick in this set? Did they just completely abandon that tradition?

[lightningtiger]

The winter series is more creator than anything else......which usually means brick built animals, unless it's a dog or cat.

Remember also the post office came with a brick built sax ?

[Dorayaki]

The opposite end of the problem when dealing with animals and characters is you can finally get the mold you want, say Sven from Frozen, and find it locked to the specific theme as a specific named identifiable character.

It's offtopic, but I'd rather see that happen. Not just throwing a random mold and claiming to be a specific character.

In this case I don't how how much prints could work. For example, Sven gets a complicated color texture with a cartoonic expression, while the generic reindeers are totally painted brown with a stereotypical face.

Edited May 20, 2014 by Dorayaki

[Faefrost]

This debate is interesting, but it does pose a question for me.

How many of the Winter Village sets does Lego actually make for a run?

I was never really interested in the line (being that Christmas is the middle of summer down under and snow is non-existent for most of the country, even in winter) until I won the Bakery in a speed building contest. But the sets are very good builds and always enjoyable. Last year's Market was great, that merry-go-round is wonderful. I was too late to get the Toy Shop and Post Office, and have been reluctant as yet to pay the higher after market prices, although I really should to complete the collection.

I will be picking this one up when it comes out, and like other people have said, will add it to my WV display as a Santa's Grotto area, probably with a big chair for the kids to get their photo taken with Santa.

Given how quickly they disappear or sell out and the fact that they do not seem to go back and do multiple extra production runs on them, I'm going to speculate that the total run for each is moderately small. Maybe 200,000 pieces total? Remember these are seasonal and are D2C Lego exclusives. They are not going to see a ton of demand for Santa sets come February.

[rollermonkey]

I almost suspect that they did a larger run than usual, as there are still dozens of 2013's WV set on the shelves at my local LEGO store.

[Faefrost]

I almost suspect that they did a larger run than usual, as there are still dozens of 2013's WV set on the shelves at my local LEGO store.

That could well be. The 2012 winter Village Cottage sold out much faster than I think they expected. Normally they do enough with the plan for it to last through 2 Christmas seasons, and should just be clearing out by the second. WVC did not quite make that. So they may have increased the numbers. In theory the Winter Village Carnival should sell out by December if all goes as planned I think.

[TheLegoDr]

^That'd make sense. Enough for two seasons should work out in most instances. I think the problem is, the Cottage sold better than expected and the Market sold worse. I have no numbers to justify this, but from all of the hate for the Market probably didn't help sales. The set itself was fun, but since it was a group of a lot of smaller things with one central larger thing, made it seem like less for your money. That new price tag hurts, especially when everyone really liked the smaller/cheaper options.

[Faefrost]

^That'd make sense. Enough for two seasons should work out in most instances. I think the problem is, the Cottage sold better than expected and the Market sold worse. I have no numbers to justify this, but from all of the hate for the Market probably didn't help sales. The set itself was fun, but since it was a group of a lot of smaller things with one central larger thing, made it seem like less for your money. That new price tag hurts, especially when everyone really liked the smaller/cheaper options.

I would agree with your estimates between the cottage and the market. Really these sets are selling into the "Christmas Village" market, mainly for use as holiday decorations. Much the same as some of the classic ceramic sets like the Dickens Village stuff. But as something the whole family can touch, help build and play with. (As opposed to trying to play with Mom's ceramic houses, which will get you sold for science experiments.)

Given that very specific target market, the Winter Village Cottage was probably the most "Christmasy" if you will. It fit everyone's perceptions of what should be in that setting. Whereas the Winter Village Market? Honestly that is a much more regional or European setting. In North America they don't really associate Carnival rides and booths with Christmas. That sort of thing tends to be more a Spring / Summer sort of setting. Plus the Market suffered a bit from Lego's high priced play set syndrome. Expensive sets with a lot of little bits and pieces don't seem to be held as having as much perceived value as an expensive set with a clear large central build. The buyers will gravitate towards the big central house over the smaller Merry go round surrounded by small booths, at the same price point. Even if they have the same part count. You see this in other lines as well.

[rodiziorobs]

I find it interesting that practically everything said about this set has to do with the reindeer.

I have a hard time thinking that the designer went in planning on brickbuilt reindeer. More likely IMO, they pitched a request for a new mold at TLG, who regretfully had to turn the request down because of all of the reasons Faefrost has demonstrated. I think TLG would liked to have had a new mold, but couldn't justify it financially.

Apart from the reindeer, the more I look at the house, the less I like it. It's not terrible, but kind of -meh-. I may still pick this set up, though. If I can justify it financially.

[Gryphon Ink]

I just want to say thanks, TLG, for making my life easier this year. Normally my Chanukah list is clogged with potential Lego sets including a Winter Village set. It's good to see I don't have to worry about that this year. Thanks for caring!

[Legoman123]

When can we expect to see better images of the set?

[just2good]

When can we expect to see better images of the set?

The LEGO event that's in early August. That's usually where WV sets are revealed.

[Legoman123]

The LEGO event that's in early August. That's usually where WV sets are revealed.

Well that's a shame, it's still quite a while away.

[Darth Punk]

I see that brick picker is reporting the santas workshop is going to be $69.99.

http://www.brickpicker.com/forum/index.php/topic/10156-new-exclusives-ucs-tumbler-ucs-slave-i-mini-cooper-exo-suit-and-more/

Also has the ucs set prices. Requires login to view.

[Oky]

On the Lego Store calendar for September it says that VIPs will get early access to the new exclusive holiday set from September 17-30, which undoubtedly is Santa's Workshop. So I think we can expect the official reveal either on or shortly before the 17th.

[CrazyDalton777]

I don't know if this has been made yet or suggested here but I would love to have a WV set that has a traditional toy store with a small cottage decorated with Christmas decorations and an Ice Hockey arena (not a stadium, an ice ink with hockey goals and minifgs with sticks and pucks

[TheLegoDr]

Well there is the official toy Shoppe, so I don't think would make another one. And the bakery had an ice rink. Basically will just need to buy your own sticks and MOC it.

[CM4Sci]

Anyone know what this could be? Display case for the set..?

-Sci

[Meiko]

Anyone know what this could be? Display case for the set..?

-Sci

Store display for the Winter Village Santa's Workshop I presume.

Edited August 6, 2014 by Meiko