Front Posted October 19, 2013 Hi Heppeng is right. They pulled your instructions because you used that 'Lego' with your product description. You are NOT selling LEGO instructions, you are selling 'Boratko Instructions' can be used with Lego Bricks. See the difference? Your product (the instructions) pretend while using the Lego brand name to be originals from Lego. But they are FOR Lego. Many eBay sellers in Germany add to their auctions so,ething similar like "All brands belongs to their owner blabla...". That mistake you did is mixing up a product description (For Lego bricks) with a brand name (Lego). I am sorry for you they did that. Pleople like you causing Lego to have MORE profit - not less. Lawyers.... Dino I think you are correct, although I have no idea why the thing was pulled from ebay. The LEGO Group treat their products as a whole package, including instructions. Making your own instructions and naming them LEGO building instructions, could be seen as similar to producing bricks and naming them LEGO bricks. Erland Part Design Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lightningtiger Posted October 19, 2013 Er, isn't the design in question the Porsche you have on Cuusoo ? If it is then when you post the project you sign a electronic contract with Lego Cuusoo giving them rights to the design and as long as it hits 10K and they give the tick of approval you get that 1% of sales. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Boratko Posted October 19, 2013 (edited) I wonder what would happen if I reworded the listing to this by adding it to the end... Crowkillers Custom Porsche 997 GT3 166 Page Instruction Download Lego Technic There are 1000's of people using LEGO in their description that are not even selling Lego including many knock offs... Er, isn't the design in question the Porsche you have on Cuusoo ? If it is then when you post the project you sign a electronic contract with Lego Cuusoo giving them rights to the design and as long as it hits 10K and they give the tick of approval you get that 1% of sales. This is something that I had originally suspected as well... But then again, so is the Vampire GT, which is still on Ebay.. Why pick one and not the other...? And more so, why pick one that sells less than the other..? Looks like it's time to start deleting these dead Cuusoo projects... Edited October 19, 2013 by Paul Boratko Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Boratko Posted October 19, 2013 TLG is VERY protective of their products, much more than I've seen from other companies, so it may be a difficult process, at best. This certainly is something that one would think, but there are almost 5,000 custom minifigures on Ebay that didn't come from Lego, not to mention a guy that was recently selling leaked Simpsons minifigure heads that Lego HAD to know about... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meatman Posted October 19, 2013 WTF? I wonder how many 1000's of Technic sets that your work and instructions have sold for Lego over the years. From the listing that you posted, it is obvious that you are not trying to pass off anything of your own as official Lego. Crowkillers -> Custom -> Lego Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weavil Posted October 19, 2013 It could be Lego is going to build something like a Porsche because Porsche wants too much for the license and people might get confused thinking its a licensed model. That's why some models look like the real thing but isn't the real one.(make sense?) Just my 2cents Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
antp Posted October 19, 2013 Allegedly Porsche didn't want players to crash their cars, which would be bad for the image of the brand. Or something like that. The latest installment of the game (GT6) does have Porsche in it, so I reckon they have changed their perspective. Or they don't like having their cars competing against others... In 2000 there was the game "Need for Speed: Porsche Unleashed" where you could drive many Porsche models (but only these), with little damage when they crash (from what I remember). Back then, that game was really good (much more realistic than the other Need for Speed titles). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meatman Posted October 19, 2013 I am not sure if Porsche would have anything to do with this considering he was reported by Lego themselves. Even if Lego had a Porsche in the works, it most certainly isn't going to be anything like Paul's. If Porsche wanted his listing pulled, then could have done it themselves. But why would anyone really have the legal right to do this? If I paint a portrait of a Porsche built out of Lego and sell it on Ebay under the description Meatman's vision of a Lego Porsche, what right would Lego or Porsche have to remove it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blakbird Posted October 19, 2013 Since you are selling the exact same instructions on your website, which Lego obviously knows, it will be interesting to see if they also try to send you some sort of "cease and desist" letter. At least then they would have to explain themselves. Or maybe it is just some eBay watchdog overstepping their responsibility. Anecdotal evidence would suggest that the Lego Technic team knows about you and approves (the PB3 references). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JM1971 Posted October 19, 2013 (edited) Yes, that is fine... I would like to get some type of response on this... The thing is that there are 100's of Lego listings on Ebay right now that are using Lego in the title for custom instructions.. What I don't understand is 1.) Why would this particular one get singled out from them and 2.) why would it get singled out from my other 2..??? I could easily change up the listing and remove both names, but why would anyone really have an issue..? I mean I am promoting one product in Porsche and helping to sell another in Lego... Perhaps I should add the ® symbol to the Lego name and Porsche name..? Which ones were pulled..? Stuff that stands out gets the most attention, no one notices the mundane, thats why yours is singled out and others are ignored. As for who reported you, could be jeaous rival, or lego might see this as a threat to profits, money has the biggest voice but does not always win. You could try different account names and descriptions of your models, see what works I suppose. Edited October 19, 2013 by JM1971 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faefrost Posted October 20, 2013 It could be something as simple as the project got flagged during a blanket automated scan for offending titles. It may have involved minimal human interaction. Changing it to something like "Custom Porche Buildings intructions for use with Lego Technic bricks" rather than "Custom Lego Building Instructions" might avoid the conflict. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dr_spock Posted October 20, 2013 I think Faefrost may be on to something. From the Lego website: http://aboutus.lego.com/en-us/legal-notice/fair-play Fair Play Fair play, please See also our Fair Play brochure Dear Consumer, Customer, Surfer - or even Competitor: This is a message about copyrights, trademarks, unfair competition and other legal matters.We do not like all the pirate copies of LEGO®elements which we have seen, especially during the past 25 years. We would like to explain why. National patent, design and trademark laws - not to mention the observance of such laws and associated regulations - differ quite substantially from country to country. In a number of countries, laws against unfair competition do not even exist. Lately, the absence of regulations against counterfeiting, trademark infringements, etc. has confronted the owners of original rights with growing problems from copy producers. Since a total lack of regulations clearly invites counterfeiting and copy production, the LEGO Group naturally welcomes the steps now being taken by some governments to introduce product and trademark protection into national legislation. We also support the regulation of the European Union on the seizure of counterfeit products and the efforts of the World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO) and the European Union to strengthen and harmonize the relevant laws. Even in highly developed markets, the laws on protection of intellectual property have loopholes and some defects. Therefore the process of securing enforcement of the rules and adjustment of the law can be very slow. Obtaining protection against copying of trademarks and products is all too often a difficult, time-consuming and expensive process. The LEGO Group, therefore, cooperates with other manufacturers of branded products on an international basis with the goal of strengthening, harmonizing and simplifying international legislation and enforcement. A recent survey, among European companies manufacturing branded products, shows that more than 80 percent of the respondents had seen more of their products imitated at least once during the preceding five years. Only about half of them had taken legal steps against the imitators. The other half cited cumbersome procedures, high costs and uncertainty of outcome because of widely varying practices, even within the European Union, as the main reasons for not defending their rights. This makes it all the more obvious that improved legislation within this area is needed. However, universal awareness that creative products deserve better protection is fortunately increasing.In the LEGO Group, we believe that any original product design should be protected against copying for as long as it is produced and marketed. And that it should be possible to stop such copying and other infringements easily. We also believe that designs, company names and trademarks should not be used in unrelated settings without the owner's consent. Each year, our legal department handles hundreds of incidents involving infringement of our rights, keeps track of developments worldwide and regularly brings infringers to court, making sure that consumers can have confidence that anything bearing the LEGO Group's trademarks or characteristic product features is a LEGO brand product. This is in the best interest not only of our company but also of consumers, primarily children, all over the world.For that purpose, we have defined attitudes and practices intended to secure fair competition and fair dealing towards consumers. Some of them we can - and do - enforce by legal action. Some of them, we wish could be enforced where breaches occur. All we ask is that there should be fair play and the possibility for consumers to make buying decisions on an informed basis. How LEGO®Enthusiasts May Refer to LEGO Products on the Internet The LEGO Group has become aware that many LEGO enthusiasts around the world are using the Internet to share information and ideas about our products. Several unofficial homepages have been established and there appears to be a great deal of activity and interest in these sites. Unfortunately, some of these sites use the LEGO logo and LEGO trademarks in a manner which may lead to confusion about whether these sites are sponsored or authorized by the LEGO Group. Therefore, we have developed these guidelines to assist Internet users who wish to refer to LEGO products for non-commercial purposes as to the appropriate way to refer to our LEGO trademarks. However, you should be aware that it is impossible to set hard and fast rules about the proper use of our trademarks. This is because our objective is to prevent a use which, when viewed in the overall context, is likely to lead to a blurring or loss of distinctiveness of our trademarks or cause consumers to believe mistakenly that there is an affiliation with or sponsorship by the LEGO Group. Since use in different contexts may produce different impressions (or misimpressions) on the viewer, generalizations do not always apply to a particular case. Nevertheless, we offer these guidelines and ask for your help in order to keep our trademarks strong and distinctive. What is a Trademark? A trademark is a word, symbol or design, including a logo or the shape of goods or of their packaging, that distinguishes the goods of one company from those of another company. In some countries, the LEGO Basic Brick is protected by a trademark registration. A trademark also can be used to show the endorsement or approval of the trademark owner for materials bearing the trademark. A Trademark must be Protected A trademark must be able to distinguish the goods of one company from those of another. If a trademark loses this ability, the owner may find that it can no longer prevent others from using the trademark. An owner must prevent the improper use of its trademarks to prevent the public from being deceived. This is why the LEGO Group is very active around the world in making sure that its trademarks are not misused. The LEGO Logo may not be used on an Unofficial Web Site The bright red LEGO logo has become one of the most recognized trademarks in the world. We have worked hard to make this logo a symbol of high quality creative products for children. The logo stands for the LEGO Group and we cannot risk allowing the distinctiveness of this symbol to be diluted. We must, therefore, insist that the LEGO logo NEVER be used on an unofficial web site. The LEGO Trademarks may be used under certain Limited Circumstances on an Unofficial Web Site The LEGO trademarks (but not the logo) may be used in a non-commercial manner to refer to LEGO products or elements which are shown or discussed on a web site, as long as the trademark is not unduly emphasized or used in a way that can lead an observer to mistakenly believe that the site is sponsored or authorized by the LEGO Group. Proper Use of the LEGO Trademark on a Web Site If the LEGO trademark is used at all, it should always be used as an adjective, not as a noun. For example, say "MODELS BUILT OF LEGO BRICKS". Never say "MODELS BUILT OF LEGOs".Also, the trademark should appear in the same typeface as the surrounding text and should not be isolated or set apart from the surrounding text. In other words, the trademarks should not be emphasized or highlighted. Finally, the LEGO trademark should always appear with a ® symbol each time it is used. The LEGO Trademark cannot be used in an Internet Address The LEGO trademark should not be incorporated into an Internet address. Internet addresses have become useful tools for people to identify the source of a homepage. Using "LEGO" in the domain name would be creating the misleading impression that the LEGO Group sponsored the homepage. Use a Disclaimer A disclaimer should be used when the LEGO trademark appears on a Web page. An appropriate disclaimer would be "LEGO®is a trademark of the LEGO Group of companies which does not sponsor, authorize or endorse this site". However, a disclaimer will not serve to undo an improper trademark use. Therefore, use of the LEGO logo or improper use of the LEGO trademark cannot be made proper by including a disclaimer. What is a Copyright? A copyright is an exclusive right to make or distribute copies, by any means, of original written and artistic materials. This exclusive right includes the right to make copies in a computer memory. Scanning Of Copyrighted Materials Into A Web Site The LEGO Group owns the copyrights to its building instructions, publications and to the photographs used in our catalogs and on our packages. Copying, scanning and distributing these materials on the Internet would be an infringement of our copyrights. Nevertheless, at the present time the LEGO Group does not object to scanning of limited extracts of these materials in unaltered form for non-commercial purposes of exchange of information or good faith commentary. However, scanned /images/info should not be given such prominence as to indicate sponsorship of the Web site by the LEGO Group. We would ask that the photographs be scanned without distortion or overemphasis of the LEGO logo. A disclaimer and notice must appear indicating that the copyrights are owned by the LEGO Group (e.g. LEGO Group. This is an independent site not authorized or sponsored by the LEGO Group). We hope that these guidelines will address the most frequently asked questions about using the LEGO trademarks and copyrights. We know that most users of the Internet want to respect these rights, but are not always certain about what is permissible. The Internet provides a great new opportunity for instantaneous worldwide communication which allows everyone's voice to be heard. Because the Internet is an evolving mode of worldwide communication, we may find it necessary to revise these guidelines from time to time. We appreciate the interest which has been expressed about our company and our products and hope that this continuing dialog will enhance the exuberance we try to create with our products. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Superkalle Posted October 20, 2013 I think this could be worth for the Ambassadors to bring up with TLG/CEE Team. Just to clear up why it happened, and what the rules are. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CopMike Posted October 20, 2013 I think this could be worth for the Ambassadors to bring up with TLG/CEE Team. Just to clear up why it happened, and what the rules are. It´s being adressed in the Ambassadors forum! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cwetqo Posted October 20, 2013 Yeah. Kim is on a trip (I think in Utrecht) so we maj need to wait few days to get some answers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Boratko Posted October 21, 2013 Been a few days and still have not heard anything back from Lego Juris A/S... Perhaps it was just someone randomly throwing their weight around to make a monthly quota and I happened to be the victim this time... Or maybe there is in fact more to this... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CopMike Posted October 22, 2013 Been a few days and still have not heard anything back from Lego Juris A/S... Ok, have you contacted them or are you waitning for some info from them as why they pulled it?If you haven´t contacted them, the suggestion so far from the Amb forum is to give´em a call. Contact info as below: Company: LEGO Juris A/S Address: Koldingvej 2 Billund 7190 Billund DENMARK Phone: +45.79506070 Fax: +45.75338853 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Boratko Posted October 22, 2013 Ok, have you contacted them or are you waitning for some info from them as why they pulled it? If you haven´t contacted them, the suggestion so far from the Amb forum is to give´em a call. Contact info as below: Company: LEGO Juris A/S Address: Koldingvej 2 Billund 7190 Billund DENMARK Phone: +45.79506070 Fax: +45.75338853 Thanks for the info.. I googled them before I made the thread and actually found that as well... In the message that I had received from Ebay, it had their contact email address, but I blocked it out from the screen capture picture that I posted(it actually looked like someone's personal email rather than a company's)... I sent them 2 emails on the 19th before I made this thread here and didn't hear anything back which was why I made the thread... I then sent 3 more messages in the time since then and still nothing... If I can't even get a simple reply back via email, I am not going to waste my time and money attempting to contact anyone from there... I have a feeling that I am just going to get the run-around... I appreciate everyone's help in this matter...! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zux Posted October 23, 2013 I am not going to waste my time and money attempting to contact anyone from there... Anyway if you still consider giving them a call, but finding it expensive I can advise you to try Skype or a messenger built-in Gmail to make very cheap international calls. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ondra Posted October 23, 2013 This looks like very bad case for lego.Also it is bad commercial for TLC... And good luck Crowkillers! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kermit Posted October 24, 2013 This is very strange indeed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Boratko Posted June 13, 2014 Well they went and pulled down my instructions for my Muscle Car and Porsche again today.. After reviewing your eBay account, we've taken the following action: - Listings have been removed. A list of items that were removed can be viewed at the bottom of this message. - We have credited any associated fees to your account. Here are the listings that were removed: 271516087422 - Crowkillers Custom Lego Technic Porsche 997 GT3 166 Page Instruction Download 390846661323 - 2014 Custom Lego Technic American Muscle Car 175 Page Instruction Download I sent am email and got somewhat of a response. They said I was using their Trademark (Lego name) without their permission and there may be other issues including people being confused as to whether it is an actual product from Lego or not... That is fine, but what about the 10,000+ other listings that come up when you search for "Custom Lego" ? 600 listing for "Custom Lego Instructions" People that are selling custom instructions are generating revenue for Lego... They pull my muscle car instructions and the model is on the cover of Brickjournal which is being sold on Lego's website... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alasdair Ryan Posted June 14, 2014 Maybe instead of using 'Lego' you could try naming your listing for a '166 page instruction PDF file for a Crowkillers custom Porsche 997 GT3,which can be built using a well known brick building toy'? I do hope you can get the issue solved,you are not having much luck right now with events or selling instructions for your own models. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paul B Technic Posted June 14, 2014 Well that really sucks, I had posted some of my MOC's on eBay and have never had a problem. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
