LEGO #21344 - Orient Express

[Lyichir]

7 minutes ago, LordsofMedieval said:

Heaven forbid that people ask the big company to do better with the product they are selling. 

You are acting like this set was some charitable gift to us from the hands of a kindly philanthropist. 

Get outraged about it. You're being absurd. It's extremely easy - even lazy - to defend the status quo. 

It's even easier and lazier to insist that because you personally dislike something, that makes you right and everybody who thinks differently wrong. But I would expect nothing less of someone who thinks that "free markets" somehow justify being a self-centered and hateful person.

[Daedalus304]

48 minutes ago, Lyichir said:

(...)

But as you say, "politeness is for amateurs"! It sure is convenient to have an excuse that lets you assume that you're superior to everyone else AND that that makes it okay to be hateful and immature. Communities would indeed be better off without people like you polluting them with your vile attitudes.

You're right, of course. Our good friend here has been banned from Eurobricks a good half-dozen times for this same attitude and spiteful nature, and it's surely only a matter of time before he puts another notch in that tally.

It's no use trying to reason with him. He is inherently unreasonable and will just double down on his vitriol, there is absolutely no interest in good faith discussion and the old internet adage "Don't feed the trolls" is really the only winning play. Shrike Arghast, Providence Tristram, Steam Sewn Empire, 'Lord of Medieval', and whatever username he makes to try to hide himself on his next account - it's a song and dance that's going to be the same every time.

Edited October 12, 2023 by Daedalus304

[LordsofMedieval]

34 minutes ago, Lyichir said:

It's even easier and lazier to insist that because you personally dislike something, that makes you right and everybody who thinks differently wrong. But I would expect nothing less of someone who thinks that "free markets" somehow justify being a self-centered and hateful person.

You called someone 'vile' because they had the audacity to demand better from a company. 

Vile.

The individual here who is in desperate need of perspective? It's you, chum. Calm yourself. 

[mikka says]

Perhaps M**ld Kings newest release might be more your speed Medieval, apparently it even comes with a circle of R104

[RichardGoring]

Given the size of the coaches, will a single motor likely have enough traction to pull them all, do you think, or would it need to double up?

Some of the photoshop mods are already making me think that two sets combined gives you four coaches and enough parts to mod the locomotive to have better proportions. But also, I DEFINITELY DON'T NEED a 2m long train! 

[mikka says]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/951593778970501170/1034768689142185994/2318korient.png?ex=6538e770&is=65267270&hm=664a506c372b7fccc19b4977575aef7ebdc5f11598ff967a39173a27aa7c38c5&

While we are on the topic and i continue on my zombie arc (genuinely concerned ive had this account since 2011, whoof) When it was originally announced that lego were gonna do the train, I attempted the French engine in a 7 wide configuration in stud.io and even though it probably was a stipulation by the actual Orient Express [it is a licenced set] to make the whole train dark blue. The low slung nature of the French loco makes it pretty difficult to get the look...

[Lord Insanity]

Oh that is fantastic.  Two coaches that are easily the best ones Lego has ever produced.  I am in for at least two copies of that set just for the coaches alone.

I had to buy three copies of the Emerald Night just to have one good train so I absolutely love the decision to focus on the coaches with the Orient Express.  If anything I would have preferred them to not include a locomotive at all and lower the price on those fantastic coaches.

There are lots of options for buying extremely good brick built locomotives available on Amazon right now from other brands.  What we are sorely lacking for options with are good coaches.  Lego absolutely knows what the wider public with no neurotic brand loyalty will be buying this set for.

I will flat out say it... this may very well wind up being my favorite Lego train set of all time.

[CrispyBassist]

2 hours ago, Daedalus304 said:

"Don't feed the trolls"

But I really want to see the next inevitable explosion! 🍿

3 hours ago, Kalahari134 said:

Even a GWR small prairie. Imagine the Internet wibble if they'd modeled this. 

https://theflourmill.com/images/locomotives_5521_1.JPG

Ha! As they say, "there's a prototype for everything!"

The MÁV v63 electric behind it is quite interesting too 😁

[Carefree_Dude]

Well, the coaches look great. I'm really satisfied with them. 

The locomotive itself? Based on what I can see it just looks kind of like a generic train. Looks very similar to the two hogwart expresses, or that lone ranger train from a few years back. 

But, this is lego. We as builders just have to change the template we've been given into whatever we want it to be. They've given us a good start, we just have to finish the job. We just have to throw a bunch of money at bricklink in addition to the money we've already thrown at lego. 

 

[LEGOTrainBuilderSG]

Just realised the LEGO group went for the steam engine that was actually here in Singapore for an event called: Once Upon A Time on The Orient Express.

Here are some photos I took of that steam engine loco:

 

Though I think the designers could have done a better job.. looks a little squashed and a hogwarts express/lone ranger colour change with a bigger boiler.. 

The two coaches looks great though! Beautiful interiors. 

 

Edited October 12, 2023 by LEGOTrainBuilderSG

[zephyr1934]

Oh, cool, a dark blue parts pack with train elements!!!

Seriously though, at least in the low resolution photos the coaches look like they are better than anything I would have expected from Lego. They clearly started with the two cars (and a need for two cars) and went all out on them. I suspect they then realized oh !@#$%, we're way over budget here. Quick, do something up front.

I wonder if they brought back bogie plates in black or if they just used a turntable for the bogies. I hope they used the RC train wheels (as opposed to the technic axles) simply because a pair of those cars with technic axles will be a strain on a one motor locomotive. Obviously they should be replaced with roller bearings, but the average customer will not know that. Also curious what they did for couplings.

The locomotive on its own would be a huge disappointment, but it works okay with the cars. Definitely a hybrid of EN and the HP Expresses. That is too bad that they did not put much thought into the loco, but collectively it is still a fantastic gateway set for AFOL trainheads. For that I am quite pleased with the combined set.

Now in defense of the locomotive, I am pretty sure the Lego police will never allow anything larger than a set of 3 axle drivers with L wheels and a max spacing of 9 studs between front and rear axle. Anything larger will potentially have problems navigating R40 track (yes, they could add another blind driver, but I don't think they want to). Also in true modern lego "only just enough is sufficient" sure, we'll finally give you side rods for your train, but only one type of rod, no two hole connecting rods for you!

The whole lego price point model is holding this set back. Yes, they could add so much more to this set and make a profit, but if they instead used the SKU for another Star Wars set they could make even more profit. The accountants know what they are doing.

The choice of the prototype could not be beat for world wide recognition, and the dark blue is going to help it sell. All in all that should help AFOL trains for the next few years. If it sells well it might also be the launching point for a modular train station (a person can dream)

 

 

PS, I'm pretty sure that's the Belville bucket for the stack. I had occasionally contemplated that parts usage, but it always seemed a little to large to me.

 

[M_slug357]

“Everything's not awesome

Everything's not cool

I am so depressed”

.

But on the other hand, yeah I’ll prob still buy itttttt thoo0 #dopaminerush

.

@LordsofMedieval is right imho; TLG *could* have done better despite the design constraints in regards to the engine. How does the tender (which has always been either an omission or an afterthought) look better than the engine?

.

@Lyichir is also right that this forum is not the space to have über heated arguments over TLG’s decisions that hurt all of us mentally & financially.

[SD100]

I'm just really hoping to see Stea... I mean Lords' rebuild of that loco, cause that's something I'd buy off rebrickable...

SD

[GoHabsGo]

It is not anymore in the lego catalog.

So it could be postponed to next year

[BrickWild]

I hope this one can be motorized. ;-)

(My 1000th post too!) 

Edited October 12, 2023 by BrickWild

[Ferro-Friki]

I was wondering if they would reference the Agatha Christie novel.

I was not expecting them to switch things up and have the engine be the victim instead!

I guess you could call this set Murder OF the Orient Express…

[Hod Carrier]

I recall being told that Meccano sets used to be sold with deliberate errors in the instructions to encourage their buyers to think like an engineer and solve the problem themselves. In a broadly similar vein, I don't think I've ever bought a LEGO set that I didn't mod at some level as they are almost all comically unlike the prototype they are portraying (see the Apollo Lander set for evidence). I'm sure that there will be constraints set on set designers regarding things like playability (and the need for the hatefully out-of-scale minifigure to fit inside it) that we as free-builders are not bound by, and I've no doubt that we'll see a whole raft of mods coming out shortly after the set itself.

I consider that folk like us are at the top end of the LEGO scale, as we're able to design and build some really amazing stuff. Would I like to see LEGO incorporate some of the techniques we use? Yes. But are we really the people that the set is being aimed at? Are we where the volume of sales will come from? Probably not. No matter the shortcomings of the set it is likely to sell well enough to justify it's production, and if we benefit from the trickle-down of parts from it then that strikes me as a win.

As for all the bickering, I just find it totally unedifying. If you don't like the set, don't buy it. If you can build a better one yourself, go right ahead and do it. Criticism of the design is fine, but we can have this discussion politely and respectfully.

[Selander]

4 minutes ago, Hod Carrier said:

I recall being told that Meccano sets used to be sold with deliberate errors in the instructions to encourage their buyers to think like an engineer and solve the problem themselves. In a broadly similar vein, I don't think I've ever bought a LEGO set that I didn't mod at some level as they are almost all comically unlike the prototype they are portraying (see the Apollo Lander set for evidence). I'm sure that there will be constraints set on set designers regarding things like playability (and the need for the hatefully out-of-scale minifigure to fit inside it) that we as free-builders are not bound by, and I've no doubt that we'll see a whole raft of mods coming out shortly after the set itself.

I consider that folk like us are at the top end of the LEGO scale, as we're able to design and build some really amazing stuff. Would I like to see LEGO incorporate some of the techniques we use? Yes. But are we really the people that the set is being aimed at? Are we where the volume of sales will come from? Probably not. No matter the shortcomings of the set it is likely to sell well enough to justify it's production, and if we benefit from the trickle-down of parts from it then that strikes me as a win.

As for all the bickering, I just find it totally unedifying. If you don't like the set, don't buy it. If you can build a better one yourself, go right ahead and do it. Criticism of the design is fine, but we can have this discussion politely and respectfully.

Fully agreed. Can't be summarised better 🙌👏

[LordsofMedieval]

1 hour ago, BrickWild said:

I hope this one can be motorized. ;-)

(My 1000th post too!) 

I am almost certain it can be motorized. It would explain why the boiler is so large. That's where your motor or battery pack is going, and then the opposing part will be in the tender. This is also why the front bogie is so compact - ease of negotiating tight curves when running.

3 hours ago, M_slug357 said:

@LordsofMedieval is right imho; TLG *could* have done better despite the design constraints in regards to the engine. How does the tender (which has always been either an omission or an afterthought) look better than the engine?

The funny thing is, the tender is fine. You could whip up a decent locomotive and that tender would slot right in. 

Edited October 12, 2023 by LordsofMedieval

[dtomsen]

14 hours ago, RichardGoring said:

But also, I DEFINITELY DON'T NEED a 2m long train! 

Neither do I. That's far too short 

[Shiva]

You all, definitely need a 2m long train. ;)

Boiler sizes, there's a lot of them.

I have tried to see if there is any list of all steam locomotives that have been used for the Orient Express, but sadly, I have not found any, so far.

[LordsofMedieval]

Honest question: are people who plan to seriously model the Orient Express (as opposed to just having this set on a shelf, or do loops around a circle of track [which is fine]) satisfied with these cars? At first glance their proportions look good (and they are certainly longer than normal Lego coaches). But squinting at the photos, I think a lot of that is achieved by having rather small bogies, and a very stumpy locomotive.

Like, would you just roll with the shorter-than-prototypical (unless you back-date to about 1900, when rolling stock got much longer) carriages, or would you try to buy multiple-multiple sets and combine cars? Are these 'close enough' for you, or do they need to be modded, too?

8 minutes ago, Shiva said:

You all, definitely need a 2m long train. ;)

Boiler sizes, there's a lot of them.

I have tried to see if there is any list of all steam locomotives that have been used for the Orient Express, but sadly, I have not found any, so far.

I couldn't find one either. Very strange. The best I could come up with was maps of the route and the look up passenger/fast freight engines that served in the host countries.

It's actually really odd how puny the Wikipedia Orient Express article is. 

Edited October 12, 2023 by LordsofMedieval

[samsz_3]

Orient Express Lengthened by Sam Szeto, on Flickr

Did a very quick edit of lengthening the locomotive and moving the cylinders down. I think I will mod mine to be like this. 

Extending the wheelbase is simple, and will be fine on R40 if you change it to flange, flange, blind. Extending the pony truck, should be simple enough, however to bring the cylinders down will require making the pony truck articulate as well - so I can understand why that was not done on the official set.

[RedBrick1]

1 minute ago, samsz_3 said:

Orient Express Lengthened by Sam Szeto, on Flickr

Did a very quick edit of lengthening the locomotive and moving the cylinders down. I think I will mod mine to be like this. 

Extending the wheelbase is simple, and will be fine on R40 if you change it to flange, flange, blind. Extending the pony truck, should be simple enough, however to bring the cylinders down will require making the pony truck articulate as well - so I can understand why that was not done on the official set.

There it is! This makes the locomotive 'fit' well in my head. I'll likely do this as well, along with adding smoke deflectors. I do wonder if it is worth changing out the drive wheels to larger aftermarket options?

[Shiva]

LordsofMedieval. What I read, about the steam locomotives for the Orient Express, is that every country, used their own locomotives. So it was never? the same steam locomotive all the way.

samsz_3, what if you added a 4th driver? flange, blind, blind flange? But that would give a longer locomotive too. Unless taking space below the cab.