[REVIEW] 42056 - Porsche 911 GT3 RS

[allanp]

Yeah, because if there is something wrong you just say it's open source

In 1st gear, I counted 37 gears actively rotating

Is that just in the gearbox alone? With new clutch gears of different sizes they would only need two gears per speed, 3 gears for reverse. And with a simple new cam piece plus a indexing link piece they could have massively simplified the gear shifting.

The cam piece would mount to a 3x0.5 pulley so you can position it in 6 different places. Yes it's a number of new pieces, but it would be so much better, more reliable, more like the real thing, easier for kids (and adults) to understand how it works, require less parts, would make future sets with gearboxes better in all those same ways and would make it worthy of the name ultimate and true successor to 8880. But no, TLG spent the money on an exspensive liscenece which makes us hate Porsche even more! When it comes to gearboxes they always massively overcomplicate things and wonder why they don't work. TLG, there is a reason the 42056 gearbox isn't copied by real life porsche designers, because it's not very good. There is also a reason why sequencial gearboxes in real vehicles use the parts shown above, because they are far better, reliable, simpler, require less parts, is very efficient and doesn't induce a whole lot of friction in the drive train by having dozens of gears and shafts all spinning at once. So for your next ultimate car, do that!

Edited June 2, 2016 by allanp

[Bonaparte]

What a stellar review!

If we'd do a 'best review ever' contest on EB this one seems like a winner.

[will]

Hopefully some other people can test out that fix by Blakbird, and confirm it works. Good work!

[DaFokka]

Did someone build the Porsche boxes in 1-3-2-4 order to honor the gear change sequence of this ultimate gear box?

[Jetro]

Everything goes through those bevel gears. It is the connection from the wheels to the transmission. I didn't find that it made any relevant difference which way I placed the bushings, but you should use whatever works.

Bevel gears are often trouble and really shouldn't be used to take a lot of torque. This isn't the only set. There is a set of 20 tooth bevels in the transmission as well. In 1st gear, I counted 37 gears actively rotating.

Thanks for another great solve! I spent several minutes just placing the black double bevel gear fora similar reason. It is very easy to push it too far onto the 5L axle with stop, and because it has a stop, that will lock up the gear as well. Had there not been a stop it would have been a non-issue

The output of the cube is locked at 90 degrees while the paddle is depressed, but as soon as you let go you lose the lock so you just hope everything stays in place. That's why the friction pin is there.

This is where I run into trouble with alarming frequency: all is well while I pull on the paddle, but as soon as I let go the mechanism will slack and the orange XO beam that connects to the link wil move back up to 30º. As a result sometimes a second red clutch gear is partially engaged, resulting in a clicking noise, or even engaged enough to lock up the engine.

Have you found a way to prevent the mechanism from rolling back too far?

[Technic_Henry]

Did someone build the Porsche boxes in 1-3-2-4 order to honor the gear change sequence of this ultimate gear box?

savage :grin:

Edited June 2, 2016 by Technic_Henry

[agrof]

@ Sariel: do/did You have the chance to discuss this whole story and issues during your visit in Billund?

@Jim, ambassadors: is there a way/need to send an open letter or petition to TLG, regarding the misleading commuication? There is a lot contradictory statements in this story from Lego side. Bad choice of words need now some explaintations. Ultimate, sequential, replicating, Technic, etc. - These words have meaning in our dictionary.

I remember the time, when it was an issue with 8043 excavator. They said: we did not experienced this in our trial period, but they did took under the loope again, and made the corrective action. It was a very sympathic and honest way to do, everyone was happy in the end. This spiritulity seems to lack here.

Is this the new way: let's hope our customers will not notice (and I am sure, the majority will not), but IF they do, smile, stroke their head, and say: "Good Boy, nice job puppies!" ? It just does feel arrogant.

You might think this is over reacted, but do we really want let our favorite Hobby to go further in this direction? Let's pull the brakes at the beginning.

Edited June 2, 2016 by agrof

[Jim]

@agrof I personally think that's not necessary. This might be a lousy excuse by TLG, but I still love LEGO and love the way Technic is developing. Rest assured, they have read and heard enough to step up their game (even more). So I'll leave it at this.

But if you wanna sue them, go ahead

[nerdsforprez]

I have completed my build of the chassis and thought I would share my thoughts so far in a mini review..........

Great find Erik and I will comment a little on the find.......

Earlier in this thread I had made a comment on the possibility that it was a good thing that the set was labeled as a 16+ set and used an argument of inductive versus deductive reasoning as my rationale. Erik's little find could not have illustrated my thoughts better. Many think that the Porsche is simple, at least mechanically. However, technically, apparently is it not.... at least in terms of building it correctly. As I mentioned, I think there is much more inductive reasoning going on than in previous sets. One cannot merely open the instructions, build, and hope for a final, working product. one must test, hypothesize, and be kinda like your own engineer at every step of the model. Perhaps, like Erik and Paul, you might have to go against what the instructions say to actually get a working model. Perhaps in this model, more than others, YOU are actually more of the CREATOR than merely an assembler. If you think about it, on most sets (not all, AROCS is another fine example, especially when dealing with the tubing) you are merely there for assembly. Creating? Not so much. But for this set we have now two individuals who have actually had to create their own solution to a problem, which to many will appear as a challenge and a very enjoyable build.

Last thing I will say and I am certainly not giving TLG or 42056 a "pass" here - but I think that trying to see things from another POV is always a good thing. That these problems were missed by quality control is inexcusable..... but at the same time, perhaps understandable. We now have a new solution to a problem with this build, but apparently this was something missed by other wonderful, incredibly talented, best-of-the-best builders (those who initially reviewed the set). Ultimately, the picture is changing on this model, in my view, as perhaps not a set that is mechanically all that complex to one that, perhaps even because of all its flaws, to one that is technically very complex. every little details likely matters in the build. Making sure gears are not pressed against liftarms, perhaps using lubrication, spacing, checking every stage for friction, .... all these things apparently matter. Now that building a functional model is perhaps possible, I see this as a real challenging set to build.....

[agrof]

@Jim: I am also happy with the new sets, and suprise: even with this new line called Ultimate. What I dislike is the way of communication, this is the sad part.

If TLG follows this Forum, and will make their consequences, will able to handle their customers as Partners in a mature way... I am fine without a revoltion.

[9 fingers]

Thanks for the Review. Fantastic job.

[Lipko]

@nerdsforprez:

The only problem is that many buyers won't have spare parts at their hands. This is still an individual product. It should work out of the box. Erik probably wouldn't have been as cautious as he was (and maybe wouldn't have rebuilt the chassis to find a solution), if he hadn't read about the issues. Not every buyers read these forums or watch review from experts like Sariel and Jim.

Don't try to make this whole thing look intentionally educational. There are way better and more interesting ways to make the builders more involved in the build process or open to MODding.

[Edwin Korstanje]

Many thanks for your excelent review Jim.

The photo's are superB and readings are honestly fairly .

[nerdsforprez]

@nerdsforprez:

The only problem is that many buyers won't have spare parts at their hands. This is still an individual product. It should work out of the box. Erik probably wouldn't have been as cautious as he was (and maybe wouldn't have rebuilt the chassis to find a solution), if he hadn't read about the issues. Not every buyers read these forums or watch review from experts like Sariel and Jim.

Don't try to make this whole thing look intentionally educational. There are way better and more interesting ways to make the builders more involved in the build process or open to MODding.

My comments are directed at those on this forum. Therefore not your average builder. I am trying to portray a silver lining in all this while at the same time not giving a "pass" to TLG. As mentioned, their errors are not excusable. I was also direct in saying that perhaps the complexity in the build comes because of the errors of TLG. Now..... before they come out and say something like "we messed up so you could enjoy your build more" I will adamantly state that is NOT the way to do business. Just trying to give another POV that is all. Not arguing that any of this is okay. Truth be told, to show where my true alliance lies and that I really am trying to approach this in a balanced manner.... initially this was a day one purchase for me. Tracking my comments over time one can see that. However, I have chilled immensely. After the speculated lack of steering angle it became a potential non-buy. Now with other revelations....not sure I will get it at all It was released a day ago.... I still have not bought one

[astra]

...

To a certain extend I agree with what you are saying. Sure enough, Lego is about building, and Technic even deeper where it comes to complicated mechanical functions. And while I also enjoy experimenting by adding extra features on official Lego sets, I fully expect that the set you find in the box is working on every level. If a function is not there (rear wheel steering, working brakes), I don't really mind. That's a choice Lego made. But what I dó expect is that the things that are there, work!

I'm no hero in designing or building sets from scratch or even making complicated additions. I'm impressed by what is showed on this forum and what is made. But I can only speak for myself and I like to buy a set, enjoy the building experience and examine the functions the model has. I don't have the technological insight to recreate or rebuild the transmission in such a way that it works flawlessly (which is possible as I've seen on this forum) and want it to be good out of the box.

Simply put, that isn't the case with this set. I'm annoyed and surprised with the Lego statement, I had hoped that they would take the comments (especially from the thorough reviewers) seriously and came up with an addendum of some sort. But, what isn't here may yet still come. Until then, My wallet stays closed

[Jim]

Funny thing is that this set suddenly seems to generate a lot more discussion and thus attention than it probably would have done without flaws

[Kumbbl]

I swapped out the pin joiner for two bushings and it now moves very smoothly. It is also supported by a red 2L axle that needs to be positioned just right to avoid even more friction by pulling the gearbox off center.

So how big a difference does it make? I never built it the other way, but I can say that having now completed the chassis the gearbox works perfectly. There is no chatter, no skipping, no stalling. Every gear works smoothly with no problem. The good news is that this seems to fix the gearbox!

wow, blakbird, thanks a lot - would be really great if this would REALLY fix the gearbox issues. with REALLY i mean not only for the chassis but also with fully mounted bodywork because often the weight of bodyworks drives things/friction going worse.... - whereas the stalling should be not affected by this fix if i understand the whole stuff right - because the stalling is caused by the problem that the 2L liftarms moving the driving rings are not ensured always staying in exact 90 DG and multiplies, right? for this you would need a mechanism which hold back the changing mechanism in discrete 90 DEG positions somewhere between the nifty paddeling box at the steering wheel and and driving rings. But fixing the friction issue with your fix is already a big leap forward.

Thanks a lot for pointing this out and sharing with us!

BTW: shame TLG for these bad qualty control but on the other hand i for myself find it good that building this model seems to be a real challenge, means to find the right MODs to make thw whole stuff working and not only stupidly assembling some plastic --> from this POV the 16+ is justified IMO ;-)

Edited June 2, 2016 by Kumbbl

[nerdsforprez]

To a certain extend I agree with what you are saying. Sure enough, Lego is about building, and Technic even deeper where it comes to complicated mechanical functions. And while I also enjoy experimenting by adding extra features on official Lego sets, I fully expect that the set you find in the box is working on every level. If a function is not there (rear wheel steering, working brakes), I don't really mind. That's a choice Lego made. But what I dó expect is that the things that are there, work!

I'm no hero in designing or building sets from scratch or even making complicated additions. I'm impressed by what is showed on this forum and what is made. But I can only speak for myself and I like to buy a set, enjoy the building experience and examine the functions the model has. I don't have the technological insight to recreate or rebuild the transmission in such a way that it works flawlessly (which is possible as I've seen on this forum) and want it to be good out of the box.

Simply put, that isn't the case with this set. I'm annoyed and surprised with the Lego statement, I had hoped that they would take the comments (especially from the thorough reviewers) seriously and came up with an addendum of some sort. But, what isn't here may yet still come. Until then, My wallet stays closed

Yea.... again, like i mentioned to @ Lipko just trying to offer a silver lining in all this. I could not agree more that the set should be working right out of the box. I think most people buy it and build it for a relaxing build. They are not necessarily there for a build where they have to solve it like a puzzle. Lego is not in the business of Sudoko or Rubik Cube puzzles. In addition to the PR nightmare... I really do think this is a black eye for TLG. Personally, I would not doubt it if there are some heads a 'rollin over there. I hope not but I would not be surprised. In fact, if you really think about what I am trying to point out as a silver lining it only magnifies that what we are talking about here is an issue of quality control, thoroughness, etc.. you get the picture. Inherently this is a bad thing. But.... if one does like solving puzzles, or more of a challenge, like perhaps many on this forum... then yes, IMO this could be a fun set for them.

[Vectormatic]

After all, as Sariel already showed, it's (slightly) better than the two Ferrari Racers sets: nice look, (sometimes) moving fake engine, steering wheels... It even add a "not so realistic (but who cares: it' intended to do so) gearbox" and suspensions...!

Those sets cost a fraction of this one though, roughly €120 IIRC, against €330 for the porsche. And i personally prefer Ferrari (the Enzo currently decorates the stand next to my desk at home)

Did someone build the Porsche boxes in 1-3-2-4 order to honor the gear change sequence of this ultimate gear box?

Makes sense though, pull away briskly in first, shift to third for comfortable cruising, then when some yob in a GTI thinks he can bag a porsche, blip back to second to get away, and shift to 4th to cruise along at motorway speeds!

Sounds Lego made the gearbox much more suited for practical day-to-day driving as a porsche owner would experience it.

[NevynPA]

I think the reason for the D-N-R ordering of the gear selector and sticker is fairly un-complex, even if silly when you think about it. Forward gears are forward on the LEGO car, and reverse is towards the back of the car. Makes sense that way, but when put against every car on the road, it's backwards.

[astra]

Yea.... again, like i mentioned to @ Lipko just trying to offer a silver lining in all this. I could not agree more that the set should be working right out of the box. I think most people buy it and build it for a relaxing build. They are not necessarily there for a build where they have to solve it like a puzzle. Lego is not in the business of Sudoko or Rubik Cube puzzles. In addition to the PR nightmare... I really do think this is a black eye for TLG. Personally, I would not doubt it if there are some heads a 'rollin over there. I hope not but I would not be surprised. In fact, if you really think about what I am trying to point out as a silver lining it only magnifies that what we are talking about here is an issue of quality control, thoroughness, etc.. you get the picture. Inherently this is a bad thing. But.... if one does like solving puzzles, or more of a challenge, like perhaps many on this forum... then yes, IMO this could be a fun set for them.

Our posts crossed... completely agree with your reaction to Lipko!

[Shlomi-Gondabi]

"By the way, I also made the change to fix the gear sequence by swapping the gears in the back. That also works great."

Can you provide us with pictures from different angles regarding that change?

[Didumos69]

...

I think I get your point nerdsforprez.

I like to see myself as an inductive type a guy. I buy sets for my kids, but for myself I prefer to produce my own designs and buy my bricks at bricklink.

For me reading blakbird's post felt like reading an exciting book. I could almost feel the sensation of a great discovery and I could only wish it was my story. Knowing that this is keeping a whole community occupied makes it even more exciting. So I can't help having enjoyed Blakbird's story.

I understand that the flawed Porsche triggers all kinds of sentiments, but I think I also see the silver line of all this.

Edited June 2, 2016 by Didumos69

[Bering]

Great review Jim, i enjoyed it. For me it's a nice set, but not more than that. It's has flaws, even errors and playability is limited. Sure, for many it's just a show item.

For 300 euro's people may expect a top product. Maybe the best. If you push the price so far, everything should be perfect. And that's not the case here. Even for 200 euro's i would think the same about this set.

Pricewise, there are much better choices, but for Porsche/car enthusiasts the price doesn't matter anyway.

[Rikus]

Those sets cost a fraction of this one though, roughly €120 IIRC, against €330 for the porsche. And i personally prefer Ferrari (the Enzo currently decorates the stand next to my desk at home)

Agree, I've got both of them and the look is really terrific!

They both starred for a long time on my shelf... But now have been replaced by NK Predator and PvdB Koenigsegg...! ;)

As a Racing Ultimate, I think the price difference could be easily justified by Porsche dimensions (it's 1:8 scale, against 1:10 of the Fearrari sets) and number of parts.

The main problem, here, is the Porsche is not Technic enough and, most of all, the main function (gearbox) does not work right out of the box!