Castle Eras and Factions

[Rogue Angel]

With all the discussion going on about what the Castle Eras and Factions were, I decided to review the sets to date and come up with an overall summary of the Castle line. Here is the result.

This is intended to be a broad overview of the Lego Castle line for general use. Here are my key considerations:

1. This is meant to follow Lego's intent in terms of Faction names, or most logical Faction names and Era names. Where possible, I use the names that Lego provided. Where necessary, I try to provide approximate names for factions (i.e. Bull Knights).

2. This is meant to be as straightforward and as easy to follow as possible, so I do not use the KKII offical Faction/Character names, I assume the lionhead shields are all Leo, and the Classic Full Lion and Crossed Axe Soliders are both Crusaders, as they were used interchangeably for the same faction in Lego sets.

3. This is strictly Castle, not Viking, not Lord of the Rings, and not CMF (although I'm considering factoring that in somehow)

4. I have tried to group similar or recurring factions into one large group for simplicity (i.e. Dragon Masters were just an expansion on the Dragon Knights as their crest is the same with different coloring.)

5. I only count years where significant Castle sets were released (typically a $50 set at least, with the exception of the Camoflauged Outpost in 1987).

6. I tried in my initial summary not to create my own Eras or subsets (like splitting up Kingdoms into the 2 separate Eras) but this will come later.

Above all, this is meant to be a quick reference document that anyone even slightly familiar with Castle can understand and use.

[LordDan]

Is the Knights Kingdom 2 faction is called jelly beans because of all the different colors?

[Rogue Angel]

The Knight Kingdom II figures are garishly outfitted in vibrantly colored armor and helms, and they look like jelly beans from a distance (both color and shape if you're far enough way.)

KKII has the honor of having the worst figures ever in a castle line, combined with the best shields ever in a castle line (IMO).

[Hive]

I disagree with the notion to include 2013 Castle into Kingdoms, and believe it will detract some from voting for it. From my perspective, the two themes are like fire and water and cannot reasonably be compared.

[Captain Pirate Man]

I wish you would have simplified it by line as opposed to faction. I say that because I just assembled a 2013 castle (the castle and 4 gate house raids, so its not really a moc) that dwarves any other official castle release. But yet it's tied up with Leo who has all that kk2 stuff I don't like. This poll just seems overly complicated imo.

But having said that, 84-92 is by far the best line

Edited March 4, 2015 by Captain Pirate Man

[Rogue Angel]

I will be making minor modifications to the layout moving forward. I agree that Kingdoms currently encompasses two completely different settings. I was trying not to make too many biased decisions intially. Those will come later.

In terms of factions, the shield/crest was the determination.

= =

Leo was present in KKII, but was only a sideline participant, not a major faction. I almost didn't list Leo in KKII.

[gylman]

I disagree with the notion to include 2013 Castle into Kingdoms, and believe it will detract some from voting for it. From my perspective, the two themes are like fire and water and cannot reasonably be compared.

There is truth in this.

In the period from 2010 to 2012, LEGO released the best castle sets ever, from Medieval Market to Kingdom's Joust. Most of these fall under Kingdoms, except for Medieval Market, which doesn't really fit anywhere. It's just an amazing set. I have pretty much every set from every castle series ever made, and now Kingdom's is my favourite for pure quality of build. Sentimentality for childhood might make some think of classic castle or Forestmen, but the quality of the build, the parts, the colours, etc mostly can't compare to what's in the Kingdoms series.

Anyway, Forestmen were my favourite before Kingdoms came along.

[Mike S]

= =

Leo was present in KKII, but was only a sideline participant, not a major faction. I almost didn't list Leo in KKII.

While I strongly disliked the first two versions, I liked the 2013 version ok.

[Rogue Angel]

I agree, the 2013 version is far superior to the previous versions.

[Dr.Cogg]

You forgot Karzon's Snake Shield and the kings for KK2 were Mathias than Jayko the Hawk knight.

Edited March 4, 2015 by Dr.Cogg

[Artifex]

= =

Lordaeron? Alliance? World of Warcraft? Is that the selling point for this crest?

[dgherko]

I have linked the dragons (original dragons with the newer two green/silver/black and the black red)

The lion body shields new and old

The lion head factions

[Capt Wolf]

Don't forget the reappearance of the Falcons with the Falcon knight in the Kingdom's Joust set. That alone made the Kingdoms era one of the best!

[SirBlake]

We can fuss with the details forever, but this is a cool resource and discussion. Thanks for putting this together.

[Lind Whisperer]

Leo was present in KKII, but was only a sideline participant, not a major faction. I almost didn't list Leo in KKII.

As Dr. Cogg pointed out, the king in the KKII sets was King Matthias, not King Leo. After the infiltration and eventual destruction of Vladek's Fortress in the Shadowlands, Matthias would step down and bestow the crown upon Jayko of Talonjay.

Also, "Scorpions" should be changed to "Shadows" - Vladek's crest was a scorpion, but his soldiers were called Shadow Knights, as they originally were knights of Morcia, but Vladek used magic to turn them into his servants, becoming "Shadows" of what they originally were.

I'm suggesting these changes based on logical variants of Morcian province names:

Hawk - Talonjay

Wolf - Aldendan(I may have this mixed up with Banteras, but I do not believe so.)

Bear - Orkansan

Monkey - Banteran(Province is called Banteras. I may be confusing it with Aldendan, but I believe this is the correct version, due to its similarity with the word "banter," which suggests monkeys more than it does wolves.)

As a note, Vladek's Shadow Knights were effectively replaced by the Rogue Knights, but whether or not they should count as an official faction or not is debatable, as their name is quite literal: they were rogue knights that Vladek hired. I believe the best place to put them would be as a sub-faction of Vladek, separate from the Shadow Knights - which should also be listed as a sub-faction.

Hey, not everyone* hates the theme**. :shrug:

*Although, I admit I did have to Brickipedia most of the province names. It has been 11-9 years...

**It helps that it has the most in-depth storyline of any Castle theme - what there is of it - and, according to canon, it's actually one of, if not the only, Castle themes that actually took place on LEGO Earth***.

***From the LEGO Club website "interview" with Ogel, who is apparently a descendent of him. Of course, there's always the chance that it's on another world, a la Ashlar, but the simplest solution is generally the best...

Edited March 5, 2015 by Lind Whisperer

[Basiliscus]

Brilliant resource Rogue Angel!

I grew up in the classic era, but for me the Dragon Knights hold the most nostalgia. The 1993 catalogue (see image below), with all those sets, is still one of my favourite images to this day.

As gylman points out, this is based more on fond memories than actual set quality, but still, Dragon Knights hold a special place in my heart.

[Regenerate builder]

^ This Image is also one of my favorites of all time! It's the main image I think of when I think back to my nostalgic days of having a few Dragon Masters sets and wanting all of them. That's why I chose Dragon Masters as my favorite era. I am sure classic castle was amazing and wish I had many of those sets but unfortunately I completely missed out on the classic castle era. My first set ever was Dragon wagon from Dragon Masters. I really like the Dragon Masters heraldry, helmets, plumes, and armor. I know all of this was borrowed from the Dragon Knights but I missed out on that faction as well.

[lego tripper]

Classic Castle all the way!

It just had everything:

- lots of factions

- great castles

- modularity!

- siege weapons

- civilian sets

[Blakstone]

Vikings is missing on the poll in the top 5 factions. It is also missing for the least favorite faction, but I don't want to vote for it there.

[thetang22]

Classic Castle all the way!

It just had everything:

- lots of factions

- great castles

- modularity!

- siege weapons

- civilian sets

I agree with this to an extent. It is my favorite era as well, but it is missing a few things that were quite notable from later eras:

Non-human factions: The classic era had lots of factions, but they were ALL human. The inclusion of things like Dwarves, Orcs, Undead from Fantasy is something that brought a LOT of character to Lego Castle. There were a couple of ghosts, but usually only 1 per set....never enough to be considered an "Undead" faction

Large Monsters: They basically had the dragon (which came on the tale end of it with Dragon Masters). While it was pretty cool at the time, that being the sole big monster pales in comparison to some of the stuff we've seen Lego introduce in more recent years (not necessarily all in Castle themes).

[SirBlake]

In the period from 2010 to 2012, LEGO released the best castle sets ever, from Medieval Market to Kingdom's Joust. Most of these fall under Kingdoms, except for Medieval Market, which doesn't really fit anywhere. It's just an amazing set. I have pretty much every set from every castle series ever made, and now Kingdom's is my favourite for pure quality of build. Sentimentality for childhood might make some think of classic castle or Forestmen, but the quality of the build, the parts, the colours, etc mostly can't compare to what's in the Kingdoms series.

Anyway, Forestmen were my favourite before Kingdoms came along.

After thinking on this one for a bit, I have to both agree and disagree.

Kingdoms is just so strong in design that it surely deserves credit for one of the best series ever. The only way that it falls behind the 80's sets is in scope and variation. Simply put, the old stuff had more time to have more variety. Castle-expanding sets that pegged/hinged perfectly into the modular castles and variety in factions such that we got cool camouflaged tree forts and such with the forestmen. If Kingdoms got a couple more years to explore its potential, I think there'd be a case for it being the hands-down best ever. Either way, it was enough to pull me out of my dark ages, so it'll always have a special place in my heart.

Edited March 5, 2015 by SirBlake

[lego tripper]

Kingdoms definitely should've gone on with reimagined Black Falcons and possibly Forestmen.

It also needed more modular sets! It alwasy felt to me like the king's castle was designed to be compatible with sets that never came.

[BrickJagger]

That's one heck of a chart you've got there! I think that almost all of the factions don't have any relation to each other, except the Dragon Masters-Black Knights and Royal Knights-KKI connection. I think that the Dragon Masters were rebels in the Black Knight kingdom who seized power after they discovered Dragons. I think that King Leo's knights were part of the same faction as the Royal Knights but are a much smaller group because they fell out of power when King Leo took the throne.

I voted for the Fantasy Era as my favorite era. What makes that line the best for me is the variety and unique style of the sets. I know the "Golden Age" sets had plenty of diversity, but they had similar, down-to-Earth looking Castles. The guys in Fantasy Era are more diverse because not only are they all different races, but each group has a very different style of architecture as compared to the others. I'm waiting for that line to return so I can add to my collection.

EDIT: I just want to point out that you should include Kingdoms Joust in your chart, as it is an important (And the most expensive ) set in the Castle theme.

Edited March 5, 2015 by BrickJagger

[Captain Braunsfeld]

Having dwarves is just THE plus point of the Fantasy Era.

Otherwise I was quite happy with the initial knights when they first came out.

The castles have lost some of their initial attraction ... while something like "medieval market" is just outstanding, recent castles are especially poor in terms of wall structure (compare to Helms deep!).

What are/were the Jelly Beans?

[Blakstone]

What are/were the Jelly Beans?

Answered in the third post.