Seasider

Yes I meant this … @Jim already has the next competition planned and @Zerobricks gave a suggestion for the next competition. what i was meant to say it’s ok to suggest ideas for the competition after the next but obviously not the next as that’s already sorted

If @Jim has said there’s a competition coming that means he and @Milan already have it all worked out, so it’s just a waiting game. No point in making random suggestions of could it be this or that. Just be patient.

Yay new contest in coming ! I may finally be able to find some time and enthusiasm to complete an entry!

I’d love to see a large CAT or Liebherr Mining/Haul Truck, but the problem with it is apart from its looks it’ll be boring as it would only have drive, steering and tipper bed operations. They don’t have suspension so I’m not sure where the interest would be.

I think people are less aware of specific Dakar vehicles and their liveries. Also remember some people like “naked” models without stickers. So if it was me I’d see what it looked like without the stickers and then if the official livery doesn’t work with the colours of the parts you have modify the livery to make it custom.

I’m a fan of the car and appreciate what you’ve done but I think a few things look off. I agree with others that it looks a bit too flat and boxy. But the thing that gets me is the upper part of the grille aperture. It almost looks like a fat upper lip on a guppy (fish). also as others have said please do share some technic detail shots here, so underneath that skin to show suspension, engine, gearbox etc but keep up the good work

Only just seen this, wow you’ve done a great job with this, especially as it’s a B model. May I ask how you did the pop up lights mechanism ?

@SaperPL you keep on going on about TC20 and entries being removed from the podium. Looking back at the competition if you read it the public voted on a top 10 and from that a jury decided on the podium. At no point did it say that the Jury would effectively do nothing and leave the public vote top 3 as is. It said the jury would review the 10 chosen entries from the public and then rank them separately. So technically there was no podium for entries to be dismissed from. It just ended up that from the top 10 the jury for that completion chose a different top 3 to the public. I was honoured to be placed 2nd which truly amazed me. But what I find more interesting about your moans and whines about TC20 and voting in general, because being blunt and straight to the point this is how the many pages of your long messages are now coming across (and I assume many others are skim reading like me) … is how you’re moaning about the second ranked model from the public being removed from the podium but you’re obviously pleased that the model the public put in the top spot you haven’t made a comment about. Yes it should never have won TC20 as it didn’t hit many of the requirements but it was a very impressive model.

@Jim - @gyenesvi was saying everyone scores every model out of a score 0-3 or that’s how I read it. But with this does that mean you don’t pick a first place model as you could score more than one model with 3 points ? I think people generally like creating their own 1st 2nd 3rd and seeing how it compares to the final overall positions form all those who voted

The only problem with the “distribute points” is you’d have to define the maximum number of points you could give someone. You can’t give free choice on this. If someone gave all 25 points to one person it would heavily bias the result. You’d need to define maximum number of points per entry and also minimum number of entries awarded a point from a voter

An interesting read. I followed your link and watched some videos. I think you’re always going to have issues with this as you’re constantly applying forces via all 4 “pistons” so you have pull and push forces constantly acting on the same crankshaft and as others have said it’s never going to be synchronised motion for all 4 and so you’ll always have some “fighting against each other” which will result in forces and friction you just don’t want. So I think you’ll continue to have failures I’m afraid. Remember in an I4 engine only 1 piston is technically applying a force at any one time, the piston in the ignition cycle, the others can be classed as negligible forces in comparison.

Looking forward to instructions on this, I might even have to build the original. I was thinking what other colour combinations are possible? White with Red arches ?

I know even more space stuff! a mini Perseverance would be good … definitely a miss from TC25

I agree @allanp the discussion would just shift to complaints over the categories we are voting models on. @gyenesvi I totally disagree if a 1-10 scoring system had been used on TC25 on a few obvious categories … shrink, likeness to original model, interpretation and implementation of functions (to make up my fictitious categories) then I’m sure with the very high quality of models we had for this competition I could easily end up with quite a few with very high and identical scores because I’d scored them differently in each category. If I discount a perfect score, because no model is truly perfect, there are 4 ways of getting 39 points, 10 for 38 points, etc. so I’d suggest you could easily have everyone having to re-rank 10 models (if they all scored 38) which means you’re going to have to rescore 10 models. Can’t we just appreciate that @Jim and @Milan have been running competitions here for over 10 years now and they’ve worked well so far and the enthusiasm around this recent one has been great.

A potential problem with actually doing a 1-10 score on categories in a competition is that you will end up with models having the same overall score. As mathematically there are multiple ways of getting the same number. So then do you then weight those categories? So that say “functions” has more weighting than “looks” ? The problem with this is the scoring becomes more and more complex, especially if you’re then asking people to do a second pass off the scores to rescore entries as they have the same score. the more complex you make the scoring the more effort it takes for organisation and the harder it is to get engagement for public votes … and it just takes a lot longer to finally find out who won a competition! Imagine having to wait a whole month to find out who won, just because of multiple rounds of voting and a complex scoring system?

Congratulations to the winners and all those that took part. Some truly great models here, I’d love to build quite a few of them. Once again I didn’t have time for my model, fingers crossed I can free up some time for the next amazing Technic competition.

@Jim I’m not sure if we could prove powered vs un-powered as we’d have to review contests where both were allowed and then you’d still get the issue of they would be different models etc. but I do strongly believe the public vote is swayed to powered when it’s an option. I think the “licenced” is very easy to prove with competitions like the Small scale car competition as to having the competition history split out as a separate pinned thread yes I think that’s a great idea but it should only be a repository with links to the previous contests and not a post for all us lot to comment on

I think the Powered vs Manual is an interesting discussion. My view is that in terms of public vote a Powered set will always beat its Manual equivalent just because “it’s cooler”, even if it may be more of a challenge to create the manual set. Powered models also look better in videos as you don’t have clumsy human hands in the video. But another one I find interesting in competitions is “licensed” (a design from a company in the world) vs “own design”, again the “licensed” model often gets more of the public vote.

If you work out a version of this with electronics that would be great.

It was TC6 all the way back in 2015. it was titled the Sbrick competition but you could use PF too for those of us who didn’t have an Sbrick. Rules were to build something with 4 functions and 2 IR receivers … equivalent of what an Sbrick does. yes you had to provide a video demonstrating the functions

@Jundis - no we’ve done a pneumatic contest and a power functions contest but not a Control+. I think this would be quite restrictive as it would mean people would need expensive sets and I know many have stayed away from control+. I got my first control+ set this year only as it was on sale can we also wait for TC25 to have its voting before we all start planning for TC26. Give Jim and Milan a bit of time

And there we go I was after an apology because I found something deeply insulting and yet you still argue the toss. @Jim , @Milan … sorry @SaperPL … stop moaning like a little kid and go and get a megablocking life (damn it doesn’t allow swear words) This is not my Eurobricks … Goodbye!

No you don’t I’m a Chartered Engineer and well aware there are lots of numbers between 0 and infinity. And I find your comment very insulting Infinite detail in the sentence I used doesn’t literally mean infinite detail as that’s impossible. It’s meant to describe how someone has defined something so much that it stifles creativity and is too prescriptive. It could mean something has 10 rules it could mean it has 1000.

Great work as always … I’m a big fan of tractors (fault of my dad’s career). Could easily be a mid sized set from TLG

I think all of this discussion should just stop now and let @Jim and @Milan do their great stuff. there has been way more discussion on this competition and it’s rules than any TC competition before and I’m sure any competition on the whole of Eurobricks! Eurobricks Technic competitions have always been open with the rules to allow interpretation and creativity. The most popular competition we ever hosted has 62 entries and was TC18 where you had to make a vehicle to fit the Car Transporter. All the rules stated was a volume box and a series of tyre sizes. It didn’t tell you to build a licenced set, it didn’t tell you if doors needed to open, it didn’t tell you how many functions it would have. But 62 people entered this. Detailed rules limit choice and decision making … and where do you stop? If you prescribed the rules and voting criteria in infinite detail you could end up with a completion where everyone built a copy of the same model and how boring would that be. In terms of judging lots of TC competitions have been public voting … and so each person has made their own judgement on what they deem the voting criteria to be. Those that are complaining / arguing over the rules for voting would they be doing the same if it was a public vote? (This doesn’t need an answer it’s a rhetorical question). I hope people think long and hard about some of the posts here because if I was @Jim or @Milan I’d be thinking about whether I could be bothered to run a further competition after all the friction and arguments this competition has caused. For me i compete for fun and the challenge of creating a model I’m proud with. All these argumentative posts that have arisen front this competition are not part of what I think Eurobricks is about. I’ll end it here by wishing all those entrants good luck, there’s a great range of models, a lot I’d be proud of if they were mine and a whole host that I’d love to make myself if I had the time. Seasider CEng