Enough with the cheese?

[Clone OPatra]

By now, it's safe to assume we are all familiar with this little guy:

If not, you probably haven't bought a set in five years, or looked at any MOCs, or been on EB… we all know what is commonly termed the 'cheese slope.' Seldom used as cheese (though it has been), excessively used as a detail on everything from lava to rocks to plant life.

Working on a review of an older set (circa 2001) recently got me thinking, though, about the cheese. This particular set had a BURP, plain and simple, but once I thought about it, I figured that today that BURP would have a few pieces of dark green cheese on it. The recent Pirates of the Caribbean line also got me questioning cheese; those sets have so much cheese and other small bits that despite their piece counts they come out as smallish (and to me, unimpressive) models. Captain's Cabin alone had 10.

So my question is: does LEGO use the cheese slope too much? Does it add necessary detail, or is it used excessively, driving up piece counts and (perhaps) price? According to Bricklink, the number of sets containing the cheese slope has consistently risen each year since it was first introduced in 2004. Last year, some amount of cheese was included in a whopping 146 sets (though one must keep in mind that BL includes promotional sets, so not all of those are regular consumer items). I don't know how many total sets were released in 2010, but that sounds like a high percentage.

Myself, I find that the use of cheese slopes could be cut back a bit. To add nice angling to a model like a spacecraft or car or train it is nice, but as a rock or lava or just a bit of greenery I think a cheese slope is unnecessary. What do you think? Answer the poll and leave your thoughts.

[Big Cam]

I've got to be honest, I love them, it's a cool newer piece that has lots of applications.

I actually bought a handful of these in trans orange from my pick a brick wall, just because they are cool.

[CP5670]

I like these pieces a lot too and aside from one or two exceptions (like the Tower Bridge), don't find them to be overused. It's one of the most useful parts introduced in several years. Unlike many AFOL models, TLG rarely uses them to just cover up studs and they add fine details that would be difficult to include in other ways.

[Brickdoctor]

I'm a big fan of studlessness, so cheese is important for me. I see where you're going with the price argument, but LEGO prices are bound to rise anyways. Cheese for me is an extremely versatile piece that I can't seem to get enough of.

[kibosh]

As a new part, I love that their are a number of these in each new set. It's an easy way to get a good assortment of them without having to buy them on BL or from PaB.

[Aanchir]

I like these pieces a lot too and aside from one or two exceptions (like the Tower Bridge), don't find them to be overused. It's one of the most useful parts introduced in several years. Unlike many AFOL models, TLG rarely uses them to just cover up studs and they add fine details that would be difficult to include in other ways.

I definitely agree to this. Really, while many models could do with fewer cheese slopes, that doesn't mean that models would be any better for it. Looking at this year's sets, I don't see many where the cheese slopes are particularly obtrusive-- rather, they add a level of detail to models which would otherwise just require different tiny parts like 1x1 round plates in their place.

If there were fewer cheese slopes, then I'm sure people would celebrate every set that had rare colors in large quantities. It's true that we may take the cheese slopes in our sets for granted, but besides sets like Tower Bridge where they're just used as an easy way to create large smooth slopes, I can't think of many instances where they aren't used tastefully.

Glancing at the Captain's Cabin, I can see all ten of the cheese slopes. The question, then, becomes what would be used in place of them if these cheese slopes were absent? Probably, as I mentioned, 1x1 tiles, 1x1 plates, or 1x1 round plates. Perhaps two of the cheese slopes in the set could be left off entirely, without anything replacing them, but frankly I don't see how two cheese slopes would change either the cost of the set or its perceived value significantly.

Believe me, I don't think cheese slopes are incorporated into set designs any place where they take the place of more important structural characteristics. And I'm sure that if a set design ends up costing more than the price range TLG intends to sell the set for, cheese slopes and similar "detail" pieces are some of the first to go. So I don't think the cheese slope deserves any sort of antipathy for harming set designs.

Lastly, from a MOCing perspective let me say that I think the use of cheese slopes for greenery, lava, ice, or snow is a perfectly legitimate way of adding detail to a scene. My twin brother made a microscale volcanic island once recently, and using tiny pieces like cheese slopes was the only real way to make the lava floes convincing. And frankly, I think BURPs are rather boring unless they have some sort of detail, whether in the form of the three-leaf 1x1 round brick introduced for Ninja sets like this one, basic bricks as used in this set (a mountain design that today would look woefully out-of-date-- even plates would have at least offered some variety in texture), or the current trend of using cheese slopes.

[bricked one]

cheeses are great, even if they don't add a worthy amount of detail in the set, you can almost always find a worthy use of them in you next moc.

[K-Nut]

I'm a big fan of the cheese piece, but I see your point. It's a good piece but it seems to be a bit overused in places you don't really need it, like in the captains cabin. But so is the stud and the tiles and the piece with the studs on the side, I don't know it's official name. But you can't really get enough of it. It also looks nice with the piece there, and not so empty. It's good that LEGO can get so much out of one little piece. So I say no, the detail is great and you can never have enough.

[LuxorV]

Personally, I find this parts to be very useful to add details, especially to rock walls (see my POP MOC from last year ot my POTC one from a month ago).

My only concern is I'll have to find a bigger container for them soon

[Stank]

Well, i think that the cheese slope is a nice brick, just because it adds the "slickiness" to the set or MOC. Also, it is a very little piece that easily gets lost, so it's nice to have lots of them. They really are useful little pieces that make our MOCs and sets look better; so no, i don't think they should stop making lots of it.

They are useful for making mini houses, cars, big houses, add as a nice decoration to a wall, etc.

BUT, yes they are a little, little, overused, id rather see more 1x1 plates, (not studs), they are rare(ish).

What i dont like are the double cheese slopes (Traveller set), they are not useful (2 1x1 cheese slopes could easily exchange a 1 1x2 cheese slope).

[AndyC]

I'm not really sure I understand the 'driving up the piece count' argument, contrary to the way some AFOLs suggest it isn't as if set price is based on the number of elements included, but rather on the cost of producing them. I find it hard to believe that such small elements add significantly to the underlying cost.

To me the cheese slope, much like the 1x1 plate, 1x1 round plate and the little 'tooth' plate represent the very opposite of 'juniorization'. Highly unspecialized pieces that can offer a remarkable number of uses, so they're always welcome. I would definitely opt for more cheese and less BURPs every time.

[Rufus]

One area where cheeses have been revolutionary is in car/vehicle headlights. The now-standard SNOT front to most CITY vehicles wouldn't be the same without our trans-cheesy friends. I love them for that reason, and also for use in greebling and landscaping, but I do share Cloney-O's sense of overwhelm-ment (is that a word?) with the quantity of these blighters we get these days. I'm just not sure I'd like to be without them

What i dont like are the double cheese slopes (Traveller set), they are not useful (2 1x1 cheese slopes could easily exchange a 1 1x2 cheese slope).

I disagree, to an extent. Lining up lots of cheeses in a row in painstaking work; using 1x2 cheeses would eliminate this problem. Take, for example, last years' Sonic Boom CREATOR set: lots of red cheeses in a row, pain in the behind to place evenly. The soon-to-come Cool Cruiser is a better example: it uses both 1x1 and 1x2 yellow cheeses; I'd have thought building the doors with 1x2s would be much less of a headache (but I expect they need the 1x1s for alternative models.)

[Brickdoctor]

I disagree, to an extent. Lining up lots of cheeses in a row in painstaking work; using 1x2 cheeses would eliminate this problem. Take, for example, last years' Sonic Boom CREATOR set: lots of red cheeses in a row, pain in the behind to place evenly. The soon-to-come Cool Cruiser is a better example: it uses both 1x1 and 1x2 yellow cheeses; I'd have thought building the doors with 1x2s would be much less of a headache (but I expect they need the 1x1s for alternative models.)

In addition, sometimes you need a longer cheese to establish a connection. The cheese patterns on the back of my AT-ST wouldn't have been possible without double-cheese.

EDIT: I like your new title, Cloney O'.

Edited August 17, 2011 by Brickdoctor

[Clone OPatra]

I see everybody is pretty much of the same opinion, which frankly is what I expected. I myself don't dislike cheese, it's just that I don't find it necessary in many places. Certain models would look just as good to me with the cheese left off and not replaced with anything else at all. It is undeniably a great piece for MOCing and has a wide variety of uses, which is the best kind of piece possible.

At first when the 1x2 cheese came out I also thought it was useless, but I've grown to like it. It greatly improves aesthetics when just two cheese side by side are needed (or more, probably, but I don't have any sets with that). Things look much sleeker with the combined piece.

[drdavewatford]

So my question is: does LEGO use the cheese slope too much?

LOL ! I refer you to my blog posting from last year on this very subject :

http://gimmelego.blogspot.com/2010/10/flavour-of-month.html

Man, they're EVERYWHERE these days. They've actually been around for longer than most people think, but their use in official sets has just exploded over the past couple of years.

They're certainly extremely useful, but LEGO needs to throttle back on their use or else the world will suffocate under the weight of the things....

Dr. D.

[Stank]

I disagree, to an extent. Lining up lots of cheeses in a row in painstaking work; using 1x2 cheeses would eliminate this problem. Take, for example, last years' Sonic Boom CREATOR set: lots of red cheeses in a row, pain in the behind to place evenly. The soon-to-come Cool Cruiser is a better example: it uses both 1x1 and 1x2 yellow cheeses; I'd have thought building the doors with 1x2s would be much less of a headache (but I expect they need the 1x1s for alternative models.)

OK, i may sound like i hate them ,they are not worthless, but these are the only things i found them useful for. Also, you can link 2 pieces with it witch is also nice.

There are some spots that 1x2 cheese slope can't exchange 1x1 cheese slope, like in the mudguards on this S.W.A.T. van ( i didn't build it). 1x2 cheese slopes on the flashing (warning) lights (if they existed) would look awesome!

PS. Maybe here you see mudguards better

[Ralph_S]

To me sets are parts packs and cheese slopes are useful parts. I've bought sets specifically to get my hands on cheese slopes in particular colours, so as far as I am concerned there is no such thing as too many cheese slopes in a set.

I've got models where I've used hundreds and very few models that have none.

I like both the 1x1 and the newer 1x2 variety. In my MOCs there aren't many uses of the 1x2 cheese slope where they can't be replaced with 2 1x1 cheese slopes. I have quite a few MOC where replacing 1x1 slopes with 1x2 is practically impossible (such as my SWAT van already mentioned by Stank) and various things I've built that are an odd number of studs wide, for instance. So, if I'd have to choose between only 1x1 cheese slopes and 1x2 cheese slopes existing, I'd opt for the former. However, the 1x2 variety does have its uses. I couldn't have done the letters on my Maersk train if 1x2s didn't exist, or at least, I couldn't actually have connected everything. (The upper black cheese slope in the letter K is double, so that I could fix it to a support structure inside). I've also used cheese slopes in combination with half-stud offsets, for instance on the cowl flaps on my He-219, and in those situations being able to attach a 1x2 cheese slope to a single stud can be very useful.

Cheese, ... I mean, cheers!

Ralph

[Dfenz]

To me sets are parts packs and cheese slopes are useful parts. I've bought sets specifically to get my hands on cheese slopes in particular colours, so as far as I am concerned there is no such thing as too many cheese slopes in a set.

I've got models where I've used hundreds and very few models that have none.

I like both the 1x1 and the newer 1x2 variety. In my MOCs there aren't many uses of the 1x2 cheese slope where they can't be replaced with 2 1x1 cheese slopes. I have quite a few MOC where replacing 1x1 slopes with 1x2 is practically impossible (such as my SWAT van already mentioned by Stank) and various things I've built that are an odd number of studs wide, for instance. So, if I'd have to choose between only 1x1 cheese slopes and 1x2 cheese slopes existing, I'd opt for the former. However, the 1x2 variety does have its uses. I couldn't have done the letters on my Maersk train if 1x2s didn't exist, or at least, I couldn't actually have connected everything. (The upper black cheese slope in the letter K is double, so that I could fix it to a support structure inside). I've also used cheese slopes in combination with half-stud offsets, for instance on the cowl flaps on my He-219, and in those situations being able to attach a 1x2 cheese slope to a single stud can be very useful.

Cheese, ... I mean, cheers!

Ralph

I agree with the above. Cheese slopes of 1x1, 2x1 and 1x2 variety open up more possibilities to do detailed brick-built signs and livery especially in confined spaces such as trains. I've used all three types of slopes recently to recreate Irish rail logos. The angle of the 1x2 when turned upright can combine nicely with the 75 degree slope bricks (and inverted bricks) and 1x1s can sit on top of each other to give very fluid colour transitions e.g. diagonal stripes on the side of a train. Doubling the 1x1 cheese slope allows for better 'behind the scene' supports when there is a need to invert or rotate a cheese slope.

Dfenz

[jonwil]

I dont mind cheese slopes, I use them for all sorts of things (including headlights and taillights on vehicles) and can always use more (especially in trans-red, trans-clear and trans-orange)

Just wish LEGO would use more 1x1 tiles in trans colors instead of always using the cheese everywhere.

[Cecilie]

I love cheese . As Ralph_S mentions, I view most of the sets I buy as parts packs, and cheese are wonderful parts for MOCing, so no, I don't think there are too many cheese in sets.

[lightningtiger]

Give the cheese any day, a very handy part...great for roof or vehicle front-end trimming, car ramp making and being wedges of well,........cheese !

Cheese On everyone !

[blueandwhite]

I simply hope that LEGO continues to use these wonderful pieces in large quantities. They are easily one of the most versatile bricks out there (probably the most versatile brick we've seen in the past 5+ years), so seeing the available supply of cheese slopes dry up does not appeal to me in the slightest.

[22kane]

One of the first sets I bought, coming out of my dark ages, used the cheese slopes for headlights on a truck. I liked the new take on the headlights as it was more modernized from the old clear yellow square but part of me was sad. Well, maybe not sad but I knew right then and there that Lego wasn't the same anymore. Change can be a good thing. Hell, I even remember when they introduced the "light" pieces as flat tiles instead of having a stud on all of them.

I really like the cheese slopes. They have allowed for more detail in many ways.

[ZO6]

I'm definitely not as big of a fan of cheese slopes as everyone else here. I like my Lego to look nice and studded, not completely tiled and cheesed up. Cheese slopes help wrap up a build as opposed to encouraging further construction, I like to have studs available if I want to add something more. I can definitely see the usefulness of the pieces, but I do find their inclusion pretty excessive. While AFOLs in general love to use them in mocs, I don't think that children tend to use them as much. I was recently invited to be the official judge of a Lego building contest that was held in town. There were many age categories from 4-15, and while it was obvious that all the creations were built using pieces from modern sets (past 3-4 years), there were next to no cheese slopes used anywhere. Much like me, they probably find that cheese slopes present dead ends and thus don't incorporate them into their creations. I guess I could have simply summed everything up with - cheese slopes seem like an easy way to inflate piece counts, and I'd rather see more of that plastic go into other parts.

As a side note: I've been buying a lot of 10+ year old sets recently, and many of them have nearly no extra pieces. Even the big flagship sets might only have a couple of extra pieces. With modern sets, you're guaranteed to get a whole whack of cheese slopes as extras. The more bags of parts the set has, the more extras you'll get. While most people love all this cheese, I never use the parts when mocing, so my collection of the little slopes is getting to be ridiculous.

Extra note: Much Like Cloney, I was recently building an old set that included some BURPs. In this case though, they were made to look like they had vegetation growing on them by using 1x1 bricks. I was pleased to see a good 20 or so of these bricks used to decorate the rocks, as I'd much rather have 1x1 bricks at my disposal than cheese slopes.

Third note: I guess one of the things that helped to fuel my attitude towards cheese slopes was when I bought the Tower Bridge. Sure I knew going into the set that part of it's 4300 piece count would be made up of like 600 cheese slopes, but you don't realize how ridiculous that is until you start building the set. Adding all of those cheese slopes really hurt my enjoyment of the build. I like to build sets at a leisurely pace to really enjoy/savour the moment, but fiddling around with all of those cheese slopes just kind of grinded progress to a halt. I kind of liken cheese slopes to stickers - they're more about style than substance.

[sonicstarlight]

Other than the 1x1 brick with a stud on 1 side, the cheese slope is far and away the best piece to have been introduced since I got my first Lego set in the early 1980s. They have a lot more uses than just covering up studs, too. I just ordered 300+ for the floor of my next creation, and they were integral in the facade of my movie theater. The fact they let you do things at 30 and 60 degree angles is also huge.

There has never been a time when I've looked at a pile of Lego and thought I had too many cheese slopes.