Model Team Definition

[Tommy Styrvoky]

With technic models would they be considered mostly composed of studless technic parts or could a technic model be a model with the same functions of it's technic counterpart but with a studed system shell? Also would Power Functions parts affect it ?

Edited July 25, 2014 by Tommy Styrvoky

[andythenorth]

Are some of our memories of Model Team a bit rose-tinted? It wasn't all as good as Black Cat truck (which is the one I remember most)

http://brickset.com/sets?query=model%20team

Anyway, so I normally get bored by definitions, but I never got any Model Team as a kid (woe is me), so this kind of hooked me in. The most distinctive Model Team sets seem to have:

- maximum greeble

- working steering (but not many other functions)

- chrome parts

- playability & realism combined

The most detailed Creator sets overlap with the least detailed Model Team sets imo. And the Mini Cooper looks like this year's equivalent of a Model Team set.

Above all though, Model Team looks to me like scaled up City/Town, or more detailed Basic, rather than more realistic Technic. 1980s technic was about function and structure much more than form. Meanwhile a Basic set like this looks more like a Model Team precursor (10 years earlier) http://brickset.com/sets/722-1/Universal-Building-Set-7

[Good old Lego builder]

I think you have to place the original Model Team set in it's timeframe. Back then, I think, the sets were not matched in detail by any other set. Todays line-up does not feature a comparable set. Eather they lack detail or funtionality. The campervan and mini look like model team, but are not. Simply because the steering is missing, same fot the Tumbler. You can compare those sets probably better to those very old sets, I don't know the themes name, but it consisted of a ship, some motorbikes and old fashioned cars( late 70's). I think that for example Lasse D' s creations are a great example of modern day Model Team

Oh, and I would count my avatar as Model Team......

Edit: I think those really old sets were 'expert' sets, like 394 and 398.

Edited August 10, 2014 by Good old Lego builder

[Chapachuk]

My opinion is more radical. I think there is no Creator creations (moc's). There are only Creator official sets, which offer us a lot more usefull bricks then sets out of other more specific themes.

So every creation that represent a copy of real car, truck, ship... is a model team. Imagined creations arent model team.

It should content as less as possible Technic bricks, the better is creation. Working functions are not necessary.

Hey, but thats me... :)

[Erik Leppen]

I have been looking through Model Team building instructions and what strikes me is that for most (all?) wheeled vehicle models, steering seems to be the only function.

I'd say, a model team model is a model that resembles something that is realistic, and that is not intended to be played with - it is a model after all.

I think Creator is very much Model Team - but with a different name. Most sets have the same detail level - but with newer parts, andoften less studs visible for a sleeker look - but I think it's very much the same thing. Most Creator sets though have more functions than Model Team sets - increasing their playability, and therefore limiting their suitability as a model. They seem to be play sets - not model sets. But for the rest, they are on par with the detailing and functionality, if you ask me.

Scale - the Black Cat was not the same scale as the white truck. So Model Team didn't have a fixed scale either.

The question is - if you take a studded Technic set, and cover the beams a bit, have less holes visible and add some detail/greebles, is it Model Team? Or would it have too many technical functions to be Model Team?

[Rockbrick]

...

I'd say, a model team model is a model that resembles something that is realistic, and that is not intended to be played with - it is a model after all.

...

I'd have to disagree with that - if it was not intended to be played with then why to the entire model team range have functional steering, opening doors etc...

Larger models perhaps may not be intended as a daily play things but model team were just the right size -

it bridged the gap between vehicles that didn't steer and technic with big gaps everywhere

this was the way to woo youngsters over to the technic side and nowadays with studless and body panels and more technic is the normal sets they feel they don't need to fill the gaps ?

[Interceptor]

I have been looking through Model Team building instructions and what strikes me is that for most (all?) wheeled vehicle models, steering seems to be the only function.

I'd say, a model team model is a model that resembles something that is realistic, and that is not intended to be played with - it is a model after all.

I also disagree. See my previous post here. Model Team had basically two scales. The serie is definitely intended to be played with (many openable and movable parts beside steering). And Creator is not equal to Model Team.

[andythenorth]

The question is - if you take a studded Technic set, and cover the beams a bit, have less holes visible and add some detail/greebles, is it Model Team? Or would it have too many technical functions to be Model Team?

Not Model Team. Greebling the Technic 8285 Wrecker doesn't make it equivalent to the Black Cat Truck. I can't explain why, but they're just qualitatively different.

Edited August 13, 2014 by andythenorth

[allanp]

I think whilst technic was Lego's answer to meccano, model team was Lego's answer to airfix. Highly detailed with little to no functionality, it was absolutely all about form over next to non-existant function. There are many great MOCs which have a technic inner with a model team outer shell, but they are not entirely model team, only the outer shell. The v8 engine in the black cat is identical in size to a technic v8 engine, but being model team they did not use a technic engine, the chose a brick built and more aesthetically pleasing engine.To make the dakota wrecker model team you would have to replace the technic beams with standard ones, remove the drive train, replace the engine with a brick built one, remove the suspension, remove the winch. It would basically be this:

[EUOfficer]

Hello,

Even if the steering function was the main function of the old MODEL Team cars, I don't think that is the right thing which makes the car MODEL Team.

I agree (and it has already been told here) that steering function can easily ruin the overall look of the model. The overall look of the model of an existing vehicle is the main criteria to be the MODEL Team creation.

Would you consider the following examples without the steering function the MODEL Team or not?

Firas Abu-Jabers collection

https://www.flickr.c...in/photostream/

[Kierna]

As a detailed lego model builder, I believe the definition of Model Team was very similar to the MOC's I build now-

-No detail limit

-No budget limit

-Asthetics over functions

It seemed to be designers off the leash, behaving just like AFOLS.

Perhaps Model Team was really aimed at AFOLS? Were there many AFOL's in Model Team days?

[Rijkvv]

A part of some text from a Dutch 1986 LEGO catalog:

"Especially on request of the many, somewhat older LEGO enthousiasts, some toy shops shall sell the three beautiful boxes displayed on the right, under the name <<Model Team>>. Realistic show models for top-builders from 9 till 90 years old."

[Erik Leppen]

You might be just right Kierna. The Black Cat had almost 1700 parts. I don't know if there was any vehicle set with that many parts that time. I believe only the much more recent dark-blue VW Beetle came close.

I'd hate to remove functionality because many functions is not Model Team. Also, what I noticed is that Model team sets are usually vehicles that you couldn't really add much functionality. There is no construction vehicles in the theme. So, say you're doing a loader. Is it automatically not Model Team? It looks like all Model Team sets are trucks or cars of some kind (including monster trucks or dragsters), never construction machinery.

Edit:

Richie's post confirms my theory - they're show models, not play models.

Edited August 18, 2014 by Erik Leppen

[Jim]

Imho modern day MT can have as much functions as you'd like. But like you said; it were mostly vehicles with limited functionality.

[rriggs]

Hasn't this debate been done before...??

http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=45754&hl=+model%20+team%20+creator#entry800168

Cheers

Rog

[Lipko]

I agree with Erik Leppen that the MODEL line was (or seemed to be) meant to be for display models. Steering and opening doors were probably there to be able to add some pose to the models on display. Some Revell or whatever models also had steering but that was not connected to any steering mechanism, it was only there for posing the wheels. Lego went further to add at least the most basic form of playability, because it was Lego after all (and the size of the Model Team models required steering to play with).

Edited August 19, 2014 by Lipko

[Lasse D]

I have a proposal for a definition of Model Team which I believe fits the sets that Lego has released in this line (excluding the dreamliner which is a misplaced sculpture set):

A model team Model Team creations are:

- Realistic large vehicles which are posable, but not scale models.

This definition should make Model Team distinguishable from Creator... but also pretty much any "Model Team" MOC I have made since 2007...

[allanp]

Poseable is just about the best word to describe it. Highly detailed and poseable but non functional display models for older children.

[Lipko]

wat do I win

[Lasse D]

Honor. This time we were able to discuss this subject without any seemingly bad feelings. I say we did well :)

[Kumbbl]

In my humble opinion it's somehow a moot point seaching an exact definition of the original term Model Team - only Lego could tell what they had exactly in their mind when starting this MT production line..

But even more it's a moot point trying to find an exact threshold between Creator and MT - it's a twilight zone because Lego had always some sets which are placed on the frontier between several product lines - e.g. have a look at the wonderful Dino 4958:

It is called Creator but actually it is a full ranged technic model, even with PF...

Or in which bin the following set would/should be sorted? The best helicopter set Lego ever made: 4403

It is called "Creator Designer Set" - and this model is better (in all criteria) as any MT sets (maybe apart from the Black Cat truck 5571): It has the well designed and closed outer shell of a typical MT set but the internals are full of technic .. BTW: this model contains the best, most genius and niftiest rotating mechnism i know - instead of turning a knob or crank the rotor is driven by squeezing two panels and so it has the maximum playability because you can simultaniously swooshing around and spinning the rotor-blades - with ONE hand!

IMHO this set is what a modern Model team line should be... regardsless what the old outdated MT line has meant to be...and therefore the current MT contest is very well defined by Jim

Just my 2ct...

[torso]

BTW: this model contains the best, most genius and niftiest rotating mechnism i know - instead of turning a knob or crank the rotor is driven by squeezing two panels and so it has the maximum playability because you can simultaniously swooshing around and spinning the rotor-blades - with ONE hand!

After looking quickly at the instructions it looks like the rotor will switch direction with every push. Is that true? Also, will it spin freely when not cranking it?

[Kumbbl]

No, that is Not true and BTW: this behavior would be nonsense. It works like follows:

Squeezing the panels push a rack which drives by sOme gears the rotor. A rubberband pulls the rack (and so also the panels) back to the start position and the game starts again. During pulling back a clever free spinning mechanism is activated so the rotor does neither stop nor drive in another direction but the momentum of the rotor spinns the rotor at least as the next squeeze Drive it again... Therefore the answer to your second question is: yes, it will spin freely

If the stuff would behave as you suppose i would not have called it a nifty genius mechanism ;-)

Edited August 22, 2014 by Kumbbl

[CP5670]

That helicopter is great. You can keep pumping the side panels and the momentum will keep the rotors going. That set was part of the original Creator line in 2003, which was all large-scale vehicles like Model Team but with various mechanisms (but different from the functions you would typically see in an equivalent Technic model).

[torso]

Upon closer inspection I now see how the clutch works. Looks nifty indeed.