Can we write the unwritten rules?

[z3_2drive]

Custom tires for example should be allowed for competition I think because we have about reached the limit of lego trial trucks/crawlers, so custom tires just adds to performance that cant be improved with LEGO parts any further.

I agree everyone has standards, but im fine as long as people dont go around saying 'thats not a true lego MOC' for one little thing...

[Ralph_S]

This topic is like asking "Mac vs. PC". There is no point in even asking the question because everyone builds for different reasons and therefore their opinions will be just as valid is anyone else's. We will never get "community agreement" because there is no right answer. How about we agree on this: "Enjoy your LEGO Technic". As long as you are doing that, I'm not going to complain.

If you make that "enjoy your LEGO" full stop, I'm with you. This is the LEGO Technic, Mindstorms & Model Team forum, after all.

Ralph

[Edwin Korstanje]

If you make that "enjoy your LEGO" full stop, I'm with you. This is the LEGO Technic, Mindstorms & Model Team forum, after all.

Ralph

I am totaly agree whit Blakbird and Ralph

[dhc6twinotter]

Rules I try to follow:

1) No painting of parts, except for chroming.

2) No modifying parts, except for cutting tubing.

3) No non-LEGO parts used. Non-LEGO string is ok, as long as LEGO doesn't make a string suitable for the application.

Some other of my own rules I try to use when building my own mocs:

4) No exposed pins. For example, if I use this or , all pins should have a part connected to it.

5) Avoid mixing pneumatics and LA's on the same project. LA's used for articulated steering is ok, even if all other functions are pneumatic.

6) Try to use a single piece to keep two or more gears together (not sure if that makes sense).

7) Avoid stacking more than 2 or 3 liftarms together.

The last 4 are just rules I try to follow when I build my own mocs. I don't expect everybody to follow all these rules. :D

Edited September 19, 2012 by dhc6twinotter

[KEvron]

MOC-Pure

MOC-ModifiedParts

MOC-inclNonLego

I'm sure someone can think of 3 better names

i say we call the last one a chimera.

KEvron

[Phoxtane]

5) Avoid mixing pneumatics and LA's on the same project. LA's used for articulated steering is ok, even if all other functions are pneumatic.

I dunno, I think that you'd be limiting yourself on certain MOCs with that rule. The best example I can think of would be a modified 8043 with a pneumatic gripper - I'd keep the LAs since they can be positioned precisely and aren't limited to either full extent or minimum extent. Heck, since my pneumatic pumps don't work anymore, I have to use LAs!

6) Try to use a single piece to keep two or more gears together (not sure if that makes sense).

Makes sense, that way sideways forces from the gears don't tear their mounts apart. I think you could make a geartrain that would span between the ends of two beams as long as you attached the two beams together.

[Jetro]

Custom tires for example should be allowed for competition I think because we have about reached the limit of lego trial trucks/crawlers, so custom tires just adds to performance that cant be improved with LEGO parts any further.

I agree everyone has standards, but im fine as long as people dont go around saying 'thats not a true lego MOC' for one little thing...

While I agree that every competition should set its own rules, saying custom tires should be allowed because you have "about reached the limit" is like saying sportsmen should be allowed to take drugs because there we have also about reached the limit. The argument itself is not valid in my opinion.

As for legal and illegal techniques, what's legal for LEGO is so to ensure their product will live up to the expectations of the customers, even after having been built and played with for a considerable time. There are many examples of MOCs that wouldn't last 5 minutes in the hands of a child (or sometimes even an adult) but that only invalidates them as possible commercial models, not as perfectly valid MOCs. It's a thin line though and for me it lays at part modification (cutting, sanding, etc.), again with the exception of hoses.

Lubrication to me is a matter of maintenance. The same way I will dust my bricks I lube my Pneumatic elements to make sure they are clean and functional.

[jorgeopesi]

4) No exposed pins. For example, if I use this or , all pins should have a part connected to it.

5) Avoid mixing pneumatics and LA's on the same project. LA's used for articulated steering is ok, even if all other functions are pneumatic.

I thought I was the only crazy because I also use your fourth rule and it is a constant headache .

The fifth it has nonsense to me because I couldn´t have done the open bucket of my front shovel for example, but they are your rules of course you command. Another funny rule I use is that I always try to cover all axes.

[Moz]

There are many examples of MOCs that wouldn't last 5 minutes in the hands of a child (or sometimes even an adult) but that only invalidates them as possible commercial models, not as perfectly valid MOCs.

I see a lot of MOCs displayed at exhibitions that can't be moved at all. Any attempt to pick them up causes them to fall apart, needing gentle reassembly before they are ready for (re)display. Less so with Technic, common for model team.

I'm not even slightly a fan of modified parts or "... except" type rules. In Oz we seem to have a very accepting attitude to non-Lego manufacturers, modified parts, lubrication, glue, metal bits, you name it. The train kids were all excited at Brickvention about some Chinese non-Lego trains that had cool parts that I thought were single-purpose crud (Lego make similar curd, but they don't need my permission). That makes it hard for Lego purists to win any of the contests, and I suspect impossible for Technic purists.

I do wonder about non-Lego string, just because longer lengths of that are basically impossible to get. "long" for Lego string is 1m, when some crane models you really want 10m.

[allanp]

4) No exposed pins. For example, if I use this or , all pins should have a part connected to it.

Yey, I have that rule too!

I also like to use the full length of any beam, there must not be an unused bit at the end like if you need a 12L beam and you use a 13L beam. Same goes with any part, I don't like those little unused bits which you never used to get but seem to be getting more of now in sets. I also share your no staking of too many beams!

5) Avoid mixing pneumatics and LA's on the same project. LA's used for articulated steering is ok, even if all other functions are pneumatic.

My rule is slightly different, avoid LAs altogether!

[Burf2000]

Generally unless I am testing stuff, the only non LEGO things I use are 3rd party sensors and Rotacaster wheels. I don't glue, or mod parts.

[GuiliuG]

6) Try to use a single piece to keep two or more gears together (not sure if that makes sense).

I don't consider this as a rule, it's simply the better way to haven't any gear skipping.

[Nazgarot]

again.. I have no qualms about using 'odd' connections for lego pieces, as long as it doesn't irrepairably damage the part

this is about as official as you'll get with this topic:

http://bramlambrecht...stress-bf06.pdf

Same file as Powerpoint on Lego's site: cache.lego.com/downloads/brickfest2006/brickstress.ppt

and even they admit that there's some official sets in the past, that used techniques that wouldn't be accepted today!

We wouldn't see half the amazing MOC's today, if people didn't bend the rules a bit!!! ;)

RB

Thanks! That was exactly what I was asking for earlier.

-ED-

[DLuders]

[mahjqa]

Someone brought up competitions... I think it'd be extremely dubious to allow non-lego parts there. If everyone is using the same parts, that levels the playing field a bit. Then it becomes about who is the better builder, instead of who can throw most money at the hardware. (For example, in our

, there are additional limits that ensure that you can't toss in non-Lego parts or extra battery packs.) Edited September 19, 2012 by mahjqa

[ShaydDeGrai]

again.. I have no qualms about using 'odd' connections for lego pieces, as long as it doesn't irrepairably damage the part

this is about as official as you'll get with this topic:

http://bramlambrecht...stress-bf06.pdf

...snip...

Thanks for posting this link. It was interesting to see TLG's take on things.

I freely admit bending a few of these rules myself on occasion, but then I'm not designing my stuff to be played with by a 7 year old.

[jorgeopesi]

There are unwritten rules around the world that we follow. I draw, I studied art and I know is bad to copy the work of others so there are rules even in art...

[z3_2drive]

While I agree that every competition should set its own rules, saying custom tires should be allowed because you have "about reached the limit" is like saying sportsmen should be allowed to take drugs because there we have also about reached the limit. The argument itself is not valid in my opinion.

As for legal and illegal techniques, what's legal for LEGO is so to ensure their product will live up to the expectations of the customers, even after having been built and played with for a considerable time. There are many examples of MOCs that wouldn't last 5 minutes in the hands of a child (or sometimes even an adult) but that only invalidates them as possible commercial models, not as perfectly valid MOCs. It's a thin line though and for me it lays at part modification (cutting, sanding, etc.), again with the exception of hoses.

Lubrication to me is a matter of maintenance. The same way I will dust my bricks I lube my Pneumatic elements to make sure they are clean and functional.

very good point I guess for trtruck competitions non lego tires should be either outlawed and brought just to show off or required. It wouldnt be a competition if some use them and others dont

[Nazgarot]

very good point I guess for trtruck competitions non lego tires should be either outlawed and brought just to show off or required. It wouldnt be a competition if some use them and others dont

I was just wondering, what about using lego tires in ways that stresses them, for example puting a tire on a larger rim then it's made for? I'm thinking both in TR and generally? It would be an illegal build by Lego standards (It stresses the tire), but it's pure Lego, and it may really enhance the grip of some tires...

-ED-

[z3_2drive]

I was just wondering, what about using lego tires in ways that stresses them, for example puting a tire on a larger rim then it's made for? I'm thinking both in TR and generally? It would be an illegal build by Lego standards (It stresses the tire), but it's pure Lego, and it may really enhance the grip of some tires...

-ED-

Its not really about rim slip, its about the crappy rubber compounds of lego tires, which are more like plastic then rubber, hobby rc tires have much better grip and better tread patterns to hook onto edges of obstacles, im getting some soon because im tired of lego tires slipping while climbing a steep slope or in wet conditions...

[jorgeopesi]

Its not really about rim slip, its about the crappy rubber compounds of lego tires, which are more like plastic then rubber, hobby rc tires have much better grip and better tread patterns to hook onto edges of obstacles, im getting some soon because im tired of lego tires slipping while climbing a steep slope or in wet conditions...

Ok, Lego wheels are worst than in the hobby RC... but Lego motors are worst too... and Lego axles are worst too... and Lego chassis are worst too... Lego in my opnion is to build and play with limitations, hobby RC is not to build but you can play without limitations.

Edited September 20, 2012 by jorgeopesi

[z3_2drive]

Ok, Lego wheels are worst than in the hobby RC... but Lego motors are worst too... and Lego axles are worst too... and Lego chassis are worst too... Lego in my opnion is to build and play with limitations, hobby RC is not to build but you can play without limitations.

I stop at tires, I would never use non lego motors/axles (although better u joints would be nice) i agree it would defeat purpose of lego, but tires are minor thing imo

[Lipko]

I stop at tires, I would never use non lego motors/axles (although better u joints would be nice) i agree it would defeat purpose of lego, but tires are minor thing imo

yup, this is a very IMO question. I would never-ever use non-Lego tires or rims. They are just too eye-catching part of a vehicle and they set the first and maybe the biggest/most important limit of a MOC: the size. If I could use just 15% bigger tires for my current project, I could stuff every features and thing in the vehicle without much effort.

[jorgeopesi]

I stop at tires, I would never use non lego motors/axles (although better u joints would be nice) i agree it would defeat purpose of lego, but tires are minor thing imo

I know you think wheels are a minor thing but another one can think like you but with the motors or u-joints, that is the problem, fortunately or not eveyone think differently.

[1gor]

There are no written "rules" for Lego construction, and there should not be. Here's why:

1) When you put batteries in your Lego Power Functions creation, you're already FORCED to use non-Lego parts. This is because The Lego Group (TLG) doesn't MAKE THOSE PARTS (i.e., the batteries). Do the non-Lego batteries make your Lego model not a "MOC" anymore? No, of course not! So, if you are willing to use non-Lego parts for this example, why not be consistent and use non-Lego parts in other situations when TLG DOES NOT MAKE THEM?

2) When you don't have the super-rare black 19L flexible hose to build Crowkillers' Vampire GT model, why not buy a RED one and color it black with a Sharpie pen? It's sensible, and better than not building that fantastic model at all (because you lack that one part). Common sense should govern.

3) You can create virtual models (using the official Lego Digital Designer software) using colors that are not available in real life. It's STILL LEGO and it's still YOUR MOC. You may not be able to build everything IN REAL LIFE with the LDD colors selected, but they're STILL LEGO. Again (to be consistent), if you can color your virtual MOC any way you want, why not be willing to PAINT your physical parts to match? Consider the two cars below -- they're BOTH BMWs:

Hi

one example to confirm David's way of thinking. All my models have some "modifications" which you can see when looking tires that I use, but it is still LEGO

example

http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=513015

To make big gears I had to take a part this turntable

http://www.bricklink.com/catalogItem.asp?P=48452cx1,

but did not brake anything, so it can be put together.

Like all builders I have broken parts, I have one more question - Is it less valuable MOC when I glue those parts together to make something like new part, or is it better to throw broken parts in trash?

From my point of view it is not builders guilt that LEGO is not using wider palette of colors on Technic parts, or new parts are "too universal"...

Kind regards

Igor