10228 Haunted House

[Graysmith]

What? Sorry, I know it's OT, but since it came up here, when did this happen? Has it been verified?

I read about it on Brickset. No idea if it's been confirmed.

[Hive]

I find it outright silly to see that people are still accusing the designer of copying that other house. After explaining himself more than once, it just seems that some people are hell-bend on sticking to that thought. I personally can't see a lot of similarities, but even if he *did* use some stuff from that other creation; so what?

What matters here is that he designed an astonishing LEGO set of a quality we don't see too often. And thankfully, it seems that pretty much everyone who posts in this thread at least agrees on that much. The designer should be proud.

Also, that Predator he did... wow. Just wow.

[robuko]

I really hope this controversy is not causing problems for Adam, he must be very upset by it. He is clearly sensitive to the comments in this thread, and although most people are huge fans of this set, I am not sure that is the main message he is getting in what should be his finest hour. Obviously, these are quite similar designs off the same source material and the detailing is in parts similar. Kris Kelvin, thankyou for posting Adam's thoughts, I have no reason to doubt him. I am quite sure that some of the similarities are indeed a function of the parts use compromises that have to be made in the design to production process rather than the original vision.

We have a lot to thank Adam for. I love this set, I love the figures, and I love the Monster Fighter theme, it looks like the theme will be a big hit and I hope Adam gets the credit he deserves for that. Lurch the butler! Brilliant. Hope my wallet and storage space can cope with all the second half awesomeness this year!

[Aanchir]

I think after his first response most people did stop acting as though he directly copied the set... however, it looks like he didn't take too kindly to the implication that he even took some inspiration from the other model without acknowledging it. And that's understandable-- after all, it might seem fairly innocuous to take inspiration from an existing model like this one, but for someone who hasn't done so-- and who is being counted upon to be forthright and honest in his work-- even implying that he isn't acknowledging his sources of inspiration becomes quite a bold suggestion

Personally, I believe him that the similarities are merely a coincidence. Similarities in the windows and other features are an inescapable consequence of trying to imitate a fairly specific haunted house design at a fairly specific scale-- other solutions for many aspects certainly exist, but they might not be as efficient, and efficiency is the name of the game in set design. The simplest solution often wins out, which can be seen just as well in the differences between the official model and that NILTC model as in the similarities-- for instance, the official Haunted House set doesn't have the columns offset the way the NILTC model does.

Meanwhile, it should be considered that the only reason the NILTC model was brought up in this thread was because people were speculating what a Haunted House set could end up looking like. Chances are a lot of the people in this thread didn't know about that model at all until it was posted here. So there's no reason to think a LEGO set designer who doesn't normally even specialize in this type of building would have seen the model before creating his own. Overall the designer strikes me as a quite respectable individual, so I see no reason not to take him at his word.

[Paul Boratko]

Thanks for the post Kris!

I like many others am extremely disappointed at some of the morons on here who seem to want to tear down a seriously great model someone has produced for us.

It's little wonder that LEGO designers stay way from sites like these now when they get this sort of moronic responses from a minority of idiots.

There are not "billions" of ways to arrive at the same designs in LEGO. for something to be authentic you often will need to adopt similar techniques as another skilled builder. That is a basic of any architecture. If it works well one way then you don't change it just because it may be similar to someone elses technique.

I can't wait to buy this awesome model. And I hope the designer carries on building many more great sets just like it.

This entire thread has been very civilized for the most part, but when you start name calling, that is only going to infuriate people and continue to keep a subject going that has been already put to rest...

Overall the designer strikes me as a quite respectable individual, so I see no reason not to take him at his word.

Very much agree...

[Fuppylodders]

I like many others am extremely disappointed at some of the morons on here who seem to want to tear down a seriously great model someone has produced for us.

It's little wonder that LEGO designers stay way from sites like these now when they get this sort of moronic responses from a minority of idiots.

Id have to say, that in itself is an arrogant generalised, and incorrect view. You call people idiots for posting moronic responses, and 'trying to tear him down'.

All of that is incorrect.

What they are trying to do is distinguish the similarities and judge whether it had inspiration from a previously built similar haunted house. People have opinions, and to be fair, it is understandable they may feel it had certain aspects used as inspiration because they do look the same, however as I stated previously, there are bound to be some similarities when trying to reproduce something from the same source.

Peoples responses are opinions. Opinions are never guaranteed to be 100% right or wrong. They are merely trying to find out if an injustification has occurred or not (my opinion is it hasn't)

Yours if anything, was the idiotic and arrogant one.

But hey, that's just my opinion

[Blondie-Wan]

I think after his first response most people did stop acting as though he directly copied the set... however, it looks like he didn't take too kindly to the implication that he even took some inspiration from the other model without acknowledging it. And that's understandable-- after all, it might seem fairly innocuous to take inspiration from an existing model like this one, but for someone who hasn't done so-- and who is being counted upon to be forthright and honest in his work-- even implying that he isn't acknowledging his sources of inspiration becomes quite a bold suggestion

Personally, I believe him that the similarities are merely a coincidence. Similarities in the windows and other features are an inescapable consequence of trying to imitate a fairly specific haunted house design at a fairly specific scale-- other solutions for many aspects certainly exist, but they might not be as efficient, and efficiency is the name of the game in set design. The simplest solution often wins out, which can be seen just as well in the differences between the official model and that NILTC model as in the similarities-- for instance, the official Haunted House set doesn't have the columns offset the way the NILTC model does.

Meanwhile, it should be considered that the only reason the NILTC model was brought up in this thread was because people were speculating what a Haunted House set could end up looking like. Chances are a lot of the people in this thread didn't know about that model at all until it was posted here. So there's no reason to think a LEGO set designer who doesn't normally even specialize in this type of building would have seen the model before creating his own. Overall the designer strikes me as a quite respectable individual, so I see no reason not to take him at his word.

And I agree. I do see why people are upset - the actual house concepts are very, very similar - but the models are still very different. Both models are essentially just different takes on a single "haunted house" archetype; the actual contruction details differ greatly in most respects, and in the ones where they're the same it appears to be the logical result of both designers seeking the most expedient, efficient designs for certain construction details given the sorts of parts available in the LEGO palette. I think it's a shame the rollout of this magnificent set has been marred by what I see as a needless controversy. Of course there can never be definitive proof TLG's designer didn't copy the other, but I see ample room for reasonable doubt, and I believe him. Heck, the construction details are different enough that I'd believe he didn't copy the specific construction design even if he said he had seen the NILTC model and tried to recreate the general look of the building using his own design.

With that out of the way... wow, what a terrific set! I'm a little ashamed my first post in this thread was about a completely off-topic Friends cancellation, when what I really want to talk about is this fantastic Haunted House. So many great details! I just wish I could afford it - I've wanted many, many sets in this price range (or higher!), but have never been able to buy one yet.

As it happens, I've been planning a spooky, Halloween-themed haunted mansion / castle MOC for a few years now (!), and am hoping to finally get it done in time for Halloween this year. I'd dearly love to be able to get this set and incorporate some of the elements and perhaps a few design details from it into my own creation. We'll see...

Edited June 15, 2012 by Blondie-Wan

[AngryChair]

I think we all need to take 5 mins, calm down and revel in what can only be described as a 'fangtastic' model. The designer did an amazing job with this and I'll be sure to buy this

[natesroom]

I think that this response here is an overwhelming support for the set... regardless of whether or not he got any inspiration from a previous build or completely came up with it on his own.

This is a magnificent set to add to part of my collection and will generally be a talking point of unique features and looks (plus sand green!!!!)

We overestimate how much impact we actually have on the buying public at large, really this forum is continued and supported primarily from AFOL's and even then we (EB members) are a minority of a minority of the buying public. I feel bad that the designer feels threatened and in turn writes a few very angry comments (he's entitled)

The model is great and i don't care if it was stolen or not, I want to build it and since i cannot obtain those pieces in enough bulk to copy an existing idea, i'll settle for Lego's idea that provides me with the book and the pieces!

[Siegfried]

It's little wonder that LEGO designers stay way from sites like these now when they get this sort of moronic responses from a minority of idiots.

Please, don't be so offensive in future. That kind of post will just cause trouble.

[Vindice]

I do understand why people found my comments inflammatory but I'm just a little fed up hearing that official LEGo designers are avoiding this site because of a lack of policing and back-up from fellow Eurobrick members.

What i said may sound harsh but if we want the designers to have more input on this forum then we do need to root out some of the rubbish thats put on here.

Sorry that not everyone agrees but i for one would like to have more input from the designers on this site because some of them have some very interesting views and would take more comments of ours on board if they felt the forum was better policed.

[Paul Boratko]

I think that this response here is an overwhelming support for the set... regardless of whether or not he got any inspiration from a previous build or completely came up with it on his own.

You couldn't be more correct... From what I've seen, I don't think there is one person who didn't think this House is anything less than amazingly well done...

I have seen many many threads here where people bash the heck out of Official Lego models, and you know that has to hurt the designers feelings because I am sure that they browse these forums as well, especially when they see a thread about a set that they did... This certainly isn't the case with this one...

I do understand why people found my comments inflammatory but I'm just a little fed up hearing that official LEGo designers are avoiding this site because of a lack of policing and back-up from fellow Eurobrick members.

What i said may sound harsh but if we want the designers to have more input on this forum then we do need to root out some of the rubbish thats put on here.

Sorry that not everyone agrees but i for one would like to have more input from the designers on this site because some of them have some very interesting views and would take more comments of ours on board if they felt the forum was better policed.

It's not against the Law to have an opinion... What exactly needs policed better here..? Unless there is something going on here that I was unaware of maybe..?

If anything like I said above, set bashing is something that I would eliminate, but then again, is that really fair..?

[Vindice]

I do agree with you Paul that "set bashing" in itself whilst not fair is an opinion that someone is entitled to, but the point I'm making is that all the time it's happening most LEGO designers won't come back to the site and that is our loss.

Personally i love this set and i just think its a shame that we've upset the designer over it.

[Fuppylodders]

OK, so lets all become 'yes' men with one generalised opinion that anything they do is brilliant. No one has their own opinion unless it is to congratulate them on their brilliantness.

This as far as I was aware, was a forum, that was allowed to state their opinion. I highly doubt TLG head people tell their designers they like everything that their designers make without some sort of constructive critisism, or opinionated view.

If you want to police out all the varying opinions of people that aren't agreeing with your own, then why don't you go create your own forum? Then you can go police it as much as you like, and have just the sort of thing that you agree with on there. And then who knows, perhaps TLG designers will visit it because it will be a bash free site?

You start taking away peoples opinions that aren't actually bashing, but trying to get to the bottom of something, then you start to take away individuality and the creativeness that helps to promote Lego...

*edit*

Most lego designers won't come to this site (or many others) regardless (for reasons the designer stated himself), for fear of coincidental similarities, such as this. It just happens that it has finally happened even though all procedures were in place to prevent this from happening, through pure bad luck, it happened anyways.

Edited June 15, 2012 by Fuppylodders

[TomRoid]

Arguments aside...

This haunted house seems like a great set. I'll see if I can put it in my town...

[Meatman]

As one of the morons, I would like to offer my apology to the designer for any of my opinions that may have offended him. As I have stated numerous times, he did an excellent job on this and I can't wait for it to be released. But even he has to look at these 2 models and see the obvious resemblances that are the reason that everyone is passing judgement. Now here is another question, if any of you were the designer of the older 2006 model and you happened to click on Lego Shop at Home and seen this new Haunted House, what would your opinion be?

[Algernon]

OK, so lets all become 'yes' men with one generalised opinion that anything they do is brilliant. No one has their own opinion unless it is to congratulate them on their brilliantness.

This as far as I was aware, was a forum, that was allowed to state their opinion. I highly doubt TLG head people tell their designers they like everything that their designers make without some sort of constructive critisism, or opinionated view.

If you want to police out all the varying opinions of people that aren't agreeing with your own, then why don't you go create your own forum? Then you can go police it as much as you like, and have just the sort of thing that you agree with on there. And then who knows, perhaps TLG designers will visit it because it will be a bash free site?

You start taking away peoples opinions that aren't actually bashing, but trying to get to the bottom of something, then you start to take away individuality and the creativeness that helps to promote Lego...

*edit*

Most lego designers won't come to this site (or many others) regardless (for reasons the designer stated himself), for fear of coincidental similarities, such as this. It just happens that it has finally happened even though all procedures were in place to prevent this from happening, through pure bad luck, it happened anyways.

Are you kidding? People on this site bash LEGO's official models constantly. I challenge you to find one person here who wouldn't admit that a LEGO set is terrible without hesitation. LEGO fans didn't hold back when Mars Mission's jelly aliens came out - they were bashed into the ground, and LEGO redesigned them for the second wave. This is a very honest fanbase.

The difference is that you're accusing a very talented designer of ripping off a fan's design, which has the potential to cost him his job. If you don't like the set, that's one thing, and perfectly appropriate. But that's not what 50% of this topic has been centered around.

What's WORSE, is the fact that we've all already agreed that the designer is completely innocent! It was an unfortunate coincidence at worst, and regardless, the set is an absolute beauty. Yet we continue to argue about it. Nobody here has suggested we turn into sheeple, but I am HIGHLY in favor of dropping this discussion as absolutely nothing productive will come of it, and there's not even anything to argue at this point.

[AngryChair]

but I am HIGHLY in favor of dropping this discussion as absolutely nothing productive will come of it, and there's not even anything to argue at this point.

I totally agree here

[tomfis]

Designer did fantastic job,this set looks fantastic

I think i will buy 2 of these

I dont care about similarities with other MOC house

thats my opinion

[Fuppylodders]

Are you kidding? People on this site bash LEGO's official models constantly. I challenge you to find one person here who wouldn't admit that a LEGO set is terrible without hesitation. LEGO fans didn't hold back when Mars Mission's jelly aliens came out - they were bashed into the ground, and LEGO redesigned them for the second wave. This is a very honest fanbase.

The difference is that you're accusing a very talented designer of ripping off a fan's design, which has the potential to cost him his job. If you don't like the set, that's one thing, and perfectly appropriate. But that's not what 50% of this topic has been centered around.

What's WORSE, is the fact that we've all already agreed that the designer is completely innocent! It was an unfortunate coincidence at worst, and regardless, the set is an absolute beauty. Yet we continue to argue about it. Nobody here has suggested we turn into sheeple, but I am HIGHLY in favor of dropping this discussion as absolutely nothing productive will come of it, and there's not even anything to argue at this point.

Uhm, if you read what I have said in a previous post to this, I already stated I felt it was just coincidental similarities, nothing more. I fully believe the designer made this without viewing someone elses, and this entirely came to his mind...

What the last post I made was referring to, was Vindice's suggestion that this forum isn't policed enough with regards to set/general bashing.

I think you have come in halfway through a debate within a debate and got it completely misunderstood.

[ETAV8R]

There is some good discourse here. The set is phenomenal. Finally a Lego made haunted house. If it were in white or off-white I could say it is like the haunted mansion at Disneyland. People find inspiration in works of others. This is one reason a forum like this exists.

I have to finally state that EB is the most anal forum I am on in regards to moderator behavior. I can understand when a thread goes totally off tangent but to threaten members of being banned is taking it too far. I don't think this has happened yet in this thread but I have read recently of a mod doing so. Also ease up on telling people what they can and cannot post. Unless it is blatant threatening text. Chill out for gods sake.

Now can we get back to talkin Monster Fighters goodness?

[sharky]

There are not "billions" of ways to arrive at the same designs in LEGO. for something to be authentic you often will need to adopt similar techniques as another skilled builder. That is a basic of any architecture. If it works well one way then you don't change it just because it may be similar to someone elses technique.

I can't wait to buy this awesome model. And I hope the designer carries on building many more great sets just like it.

I agree. There are only so many ways to do certain types of things. From the designers comments I can see that he must have worked very hard for a long time to come up with the model he did. I can see how upsetting it would be for people to comment and infer or even just speculate that he didn't come up with the ideas on his own after putting so much of his talent and effort into his fantastic model. As he mentioned Lego has no problems with getting permission to use a design, so why wouldn't they in this case if he did use the MOC as a base for his own model. The answer is because he didn't use the MOC as an example.

And then even after he explained himself some people were still doubtful and still speculated that he was simply defending himself just to save face. That would really upset me even more if I were in his position. Even if it was an honest and understandable mistake for considering that he drew ideas from the MOC I think he is owed an honest apology now that we have been informed of the truth. Not for having an opinion, but for making an honest mistake and honestly insulting his integrity even if at the time one felt justified in making such a conclusion.

[dyntar]

So someone designed a house that is similar in style to one that Lego releases ... Its not a copy or based on anyones designs. Try typing haunted house into a google search there's a plenty of real houses that have a similar design. Its the basic structure of the house that we seem to think is a haunted house style. Its the basic 2 or 3 stories with a tall tower in the centre above the doorway with angled roofs. Make it spooky by adding a few boarded up windows a dead tree and an appropriate colour scheme.

As for the colour.. What colours are most associated with halloween? grey, black, green and orange.

People are going overboard with the reactions..This is a generic representation of a haunted house with a few characters loosely based on a few awesome 60's TV shows.

Have we ever had a haunted house before from Lego? no

Are we ever likely to get one again?? doubtful.

Its an awesome house. I'll be buying it :D though it might need a few more bits of furniture but Lego is never going to please 100% of everyone.

The designer did an awesome job. Its everything i want in a haunted house.. btw love the spider webs on the windows.

Edited June 15, 2012 by dyntar

[Rick]

I have to finally state that EB is the most anal forum I am on in regards to moderator behavior. I can understand when a thread goes totally off tangent but to threaten members of being banned is taking it too far. I don't think this has happened yet in this thread but I have read recently of a mod doing so. Also ease up on telling people what they can and cannot post. Unless it is blatant threatening text. Chill out for gods sake.

The EB staff is trying to make the forum enjoyable for everyone. Although I don't know what specific case(s) your referring to, we do not just tolerate everything. If it concerns you personally, feel free to PM the staff member involved to discuss the issue further.

Now can we get back to talkin Monster Fighters goodness?

Yes, please do.

[1974]

That house is monstrous!

Luv it, and I'll have to get plenty of them too

Now folks, just use your brains, IF he copied that house I'm sure TLG would boot him. And who wants to get booted from _that_ kinda job?

And IF TLG was the big evil mastermind behind this, I'm sure the other builder could sue TLG from here to Mars .. And, it's been noted over the last .. ah 50? years, that TLG have a shitload more moral than several wellknow countries combined

It's the age of the internet! Everybody knows what you did before you do it (which, as the TLG creator hints, makes it VERY hard to be an official LEGO builder and AFOL at the same time)

Relax, it's just a generic haunted house with similar building features

Just like the creator said ..

Now, if you really have that much anger build up inside against LEGO copycats, there's a bunch of companies that you can direct that at. I don't to name names

And kudos for the creator to speak up!

I think I'll buy double the amount of that set just for that, haha