LEGO #21344 - Orient Express

[dtomsen]

1 hour ago, Carefree_Dude said:

I believe part of the reason these Chinese brands are so cheap (price point i mean) is that they don't have as rigorously high standards for their parts as Lego does. I bought a non-lego Union Pacific Big Boy, and many of the parts are actually really good, and fit well together. Sadly though a lot of the more nuanced pieces (like the train wheels) attach rather loosely. Also the plastic just has this ever so slightly different feel to it that's hard to describe. 

That aside though, the price point for what you get is amazing, and by simply swapping out a few of the parts for genuine lego parts, you have a very solid model, and with some modification you can even make it run on lego track. 

(actually the design of it kinda weirds me out? It almost looks like they took someone' else's motorized big boy MOC, made a few minor changes, ripped out the motors and some of the axels and stuff, and called it their own)

TLG doesn't have rigorously higher parts quality anymore. That's the first misconception. Other brands have very varying parts quality, most have worse, some are close or the same (GoBricks, Oxford) and admittedly one (Cobi) is better in most aspects. That's the second misconception.
What TLG usually does better overall is more thoroughly designed and tested sets (and instructions) which in all likelihood will be reflected in both the TLG OE and the Mould King OE. That's the third misconception by most only comparing boxart and accompanying artwork.

Edited October 16, 2023 by dtomsen

[Sven J]

50 minutes ago, Carefree_Dude said:

Sadly though a lot of the more nuanced pieces (like the train wheels) attach rather loosely.

No other wheels in my parts stock fit as loosely on cross axles as genuine Lego L drivers do...

[SerperiorBricks]

On 10/13/2023 at 9:34 AM, R0Sch said:

Didn't find a blueprint for the 230 G but this Wabash 4-6-0 number 713 is pretty much the same length as our LEGO engine here. So stop whining.


The reason LEGO probably chose this generic engine is because Orient Express is also focused on the luxury carriages.

That time when the Wabash railroad from Midwest US sent their finest locomotive to make the trans-continental journey with the luxurious Orient express. You also failed to draw a rather important line to our criticism of the locomotive

 

Edited October 16, 2023 by SerperiorBricks

[ToledoRails]

2 hours ago, dtomsen said:

TLG doesn't have rigorously higher parts quality anymore. That's the first misconception. Other brands have very varying parts quality, most have worse, some are close or the same (GoBricks, Oxford) and admittedly one (Cobi) is better in most aspects. That's the second misconception.
What TLG usually does better overall is more thoroughly designed and tested sets (and instructions) which in all likelihood will be reflected in both the TLG OE and the Mould King OE. That's the third misconception by most only comparing boxart and accompanying artwork.

This exactly. It's wild how a near 4000 piece set can make me anxious just unboxing it.

Early thoughts on Mould King set: Instructions are at their best (which of course, I never saw a developmental improvement of TLG instructions)

The remote provided with the set is defective, but everything else is fine...

The gearbox is... well I'll leave that horror for the video!

[samsz_3]

16 hours ago, dtomsen said:

TLG doesn't have rigorously higher parts quality anymore

Agreed. I stopped getting LEGO as a kid in around 2010, and started getting into it again as an adult in 2019. The mould marks on my original pieces are hidden and impossible to notice, but parts like tiles now have huge flashing marks. Also some of my childhood windscreen pieces have no scratches, but these days, I open a new set and find scratches on transparent parts.

[zephyr1934]

What about simply pulling the Orient Express cars with the Crocodile Locomotive? It looks like several of the classic Orient Express routes ran through Switzerland.

[LEGOTrainBuilderSG]

54 minutes ago, zephyr1934 said:

What about simply pulling the Orient Express cars with the Crocodile Locomotive? It looks like several of the classic Orient Express routes ran through Switzerland.

This! I think this will look perfect. 

[THERIZE]

4 hours ago, zephyr1934 said:

What about simply pulling the Orient Express cars with the Crocodile Locomotive? It looks like several of the classic Orient Express routes ran through Switzerland.

That is my plan as well, for a time at least. However it's not something that would've been common when the Crocodiles were still used, since they were built for freight trains. I've barely found any images of them with passenger trains before their preservation. 

Talking about images, I have found this website which has a page with mostly Orient Expresses, with quite some interesting locomotives in front. I particularly like the two Austrian tank engines as a double-header that you can see when you scroll down past the first two large images.

Edited October 18, 2023 by THERIZE

[lego3057]

Anything goes, but I think the one that comes with the set is not that bad. And I am betting on a new blue. (otherwise it´s dark blue)

 

 

Edited October 18, 2023 by lego3057

[Shiva]

@THERIZE it seems that 1100.002, https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBÖ_1100 has pulled Orient Express. It is related to the LEGO Crocodile https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crocodile_(locomotive).

 

.

[THERIZE]

54 minutes ago, Shiva said:

@THERIZE it seems that 1100.002, https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBÖ_1100 has pulled Orient Express. It is related to the LEGO Crocodile https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crocodile_(locomotive).

 

.

Aah, the BBÖ had their own fleet of Express Crocodiles. That explains that picture. I was of the assumption that it was a Swiss example used as a replacement locomotive. Hmm, I've modified my Crocodile so much, maybe modifying it even more to be an Austrian example might be a fun idea. 

[zephyr1934]

6 hours ago, THERIZE said:

Talking about images, I have found this website which has a page with mostly Orient Expresses, with quite some interesting locomotives in front. I particularly like the two Austrian tank engines as a double-header that you can see when you scroll down past the first two large images.

There you go, the page shows one of the Austrian crocs pulling the Orient Express...

 

[Vilhelm22]

2 minutes ago, zephyr1934 said:

There you go, the page shows one of the Austrian crocs pulling the Orient Express...

 

Well I think that should hopefully sought out a lot of people's anger soon.

[and_ampersand_and]

7 hours ago, THERIZE said:

Talking about images, I have found this website which has a page with mostly Orient Expresses, with quite some interesting locomotives in front. I particularly like the two Austrian tank engines as a double-header that you can see when you scroll down past the first two large images.

From that site is a picture of a P 3/5H pulling the express, which is a 4-6-0 that others have already mentioned resembles the Lego set. It even has the extended coal bunder on the tender (although the tender has 4 axles instead of 3)

That might end up being the basis I go for when I upgrade the set.

[THERIZE]

That would be quite nice design to modify the locomotive into, indeed. Not too big, and still fits in with what the set provides you. Are you thinking of using the included drivers? 

[Mondo-TRON]

15 hours ago, zephyr1934 said:

What about simply pulling the Orient Express cars with the Crocodile Locomotive? It looks like several of the classic Orient Express routes ran through Switzerland.

 

14 hours ago, LEGOTrainBuilderSG said:

This! I think this will look perfect. 

Are both sets  in the same scale? Maybe someone could do a Photoshop comparing the two sets together.

For the Crocodile, can a minifigure still fit inside if it is motorized?

 

 

[Aanchir]

Still surprised the shade of blue is so heavily disputed. To me it doesn't really look meaningfully different from the Dark Blue parts in lifestyle photos of other sets (including ones from that same catalog) like 42154 Ford GT or 76250 Wolverine's Adamantium Claws. Though I suppose LEGO taking the catalog down makes it harder to just flip between pages.

In general, it seems like LEGO's photographers light these sets however brightly they need to to ensure that light-colored details don't get washed out and dark-colored details don't get lost in the shadows, which I think sometimes leads to people either misinterpreting the brick colors, or identifying them correctly but still perceiving them as brighter or more garish than dimly-lit MOC photos or renders using those same colors.

Edited October 18, 2023 by Aanchir

[Kalahari134]

17 hours ago, zephyr1934 said:

What about simply pulling the Orient Express cars with the Crocodile Locomotive? It looks like several of the classic Orient Express routes ran through Switzerland.

The Swiss crocs wouldn't have done, but I do have a second set in its box that I'd been meaning to rebuild as an AE 3/6. Those were used on the route. 

Edited October 18, 2023 by Kalahari134

[dtomsen]

I'm good to go should I ever feel the need 

Edited October 19, 2023 by dtomsen

[Carefree_Dude]

On 10/17/2023 at 8:46 PM, zephyr1934 said:

What about simply pulling the Orient Express cars with the Crocodile Locomotive? It looks like several of the classic Orient Express routes ran through Switzerland.

 

I'm seeing all these reasonable suggestions to have a non-steam engine pull the Orient Express but I think we all know deep down inside that our inner child demands it be a steam locomotive. 

Not just because it looks cool, but myself, and I'm sure most every train fan here have been impatiently waiting for more than a decade for Lego to produce a worthy follow up to the Emerald Night. 

Then we all heard the rumors of the UCS Hogwarts Express which raised our hopes and dashed them quite expertly! 

And then there were rumors of this train, based on an ideas submission, with a really well built locomotive that could finally surpass the emerald night in an official set and... 

We get this.   If this locomotive were just like a random train set released alongside the normal every half decade passenger train and freight rain, it would likely be loved, praised even. 

But this train was supposed to finally fulfil a decade plus long desire so many of us have had. 

SO, I think this is where the disappointment and harsh criticism is coming from. Not for what the train is, but what many of us were wanting it to be. 

SO yeah, I'll buy this set. maybe even buy two. Then I'll build my own steam engine! And it'll be glorious! 


And of course there will always be brilliant mocers like sava railways for instance. (I know there is more than that but they come to mind off the top of my head because many of my own creations have been inspired by them)

 

 

I also wanted to add that i don't think that the emerald night is the ultimate form of a lego steam engine. Even upon release, myself and others saw plenty of flaws in the design, as well as engineering issues with the gearing and drive rods. It was just the absolute best steam engine officially released by lego, and really put what official lego steam engines could be on a pedestal. 
 

Edited October 19, 2023 by Carefree_Dude

[Selander]

8 hours ago, dtomsen said:

I'm good to go should I ever feel the need 

Same here 😇

[Shiva]

I would have to go with the LEGO Crocodile and call it a day.

Builds I wish to make, would be in the wrong scale. 1/40. Aka, very close to minidoll scale.

[Lyichir]

2 hours ago, Shiva said:

I would have to go with the LEGO Crocodile and call it a day.

Builds I wish to make, would be in the wrong scale. 1/40. Aka, very close to minidoll scale.

Mini-doll scale isn't really substantially different from minifig scale? They're just one plate taller and use the same doors, windows, etc.

Only real substantial difference is them needing more legroom when seated.

[R0Sch]

On 10/18/2023 at 8:58 PM, Aanchir said:

Still surprised the shade of blue is so heavily disputed. To me it doesn't really look meaningfully different from the Dark Blue parts in lifestyle photos of other sets (including ones from that same catalog) like 42154 Ford GT or 76250 Wolverine's Adamantium Claws. Though I suppose LEGO taking the catalog down makes it harder to just flip between pages.

Here you go: The forbidden catalog

[Aanchir]

14 hours ago, Carefree_Dude said:

I'm seeing all these reasonable suggestions to have a non-steam engine pull the Orient Express but I think we all know deep down inside that our inner child demands it be a steam locomotive. 

Not just because it looks cool, but myself, and I'm sure most every train fan here have been impatiently waiting for more than a decade for Lego to produce a worthy follow up to the Emerald Night. 

Then we all heard the rumors of the UCS Hogwarts Express which raised our hopes and dashed them quite expertly! 

And then there were rumors of this train, based on an ideas submission, with a really well built locomotive that could finally surpass the emerald night in an official set and... 

We get this. If this locomotive were just like a random train set released alongside the normal every half decade passenger train and freight rain, it would likely be loved, praised even. 

But this train was supposed to finally fulfil a decade plus long desire so many of us have had. 

SO, I think this is where the disappointment and harsh criticism is coming from. Not for what the train is, but what many of us were wanting it to be. 

Honestly, the locomotive from original Ideas submission would've still had some of the same major drawbacks of the big Hogwarts Express. While the wheels are in standard L-gauge, it was over 11 studs wide and 11 bricks tall, so it would be WAY out of proportion with most LEGO trains, including previous Creator Expert/Icons ones (and probably likely to run into clearance issues on many people's layouts). Moreover, its length — more than 48 studs for the locomotive alone — has me doubting that it could traverse standard R40 curves, which may be part of why LEGO opted for a much shorter locomotive in the final set. In general, the feedback from the Hogwarts Express might've given LEGO an even stronger incentive to prioritize compatibility with LEGO rails over grandeur or level of detail when deciding on the proportions and scale to aim for in their redesign.

Moreover, the connecting rods on the original Ideas project didn't function like those in the final set, nor did they even convincingly appear to attach to the wheels or pistons as they should. And it still had a round-topped firebox (one of the common critiques of the final set in this thread), just one that flares outwards at the bottom like that of the Emerald Night instead of having a straight vertical side wall like the final set design. As such, I feel like if LEGO had stuck closer to that original design, the final set would end up disappointing just as many people, albeit perhaps not for the same reasons.

All that said, I recognize that the small pictures we have so far don't give us entirely as much insight into the model's strengths and weaknesses as the press release photos and fan reviews ultimately will. It's entirely possible that the finished set still has practical drawbacks which are simply not as apparent as those of the massive version from the original proposal. It's also possible that the lifestyle photos from that catalog, with their emphasis on the carriages, simply don't show the locomotive from angles that would show details like the shape of the firebox in a more positive light. I guess we will find out for sure before too long!

 

On a side note, looking at the official pics again, I noticed that the running boards are 2x16 helicopter rotor plates (part 62743). Interesting part choice! I imagine that slight bevel will look really nice from the front. It also makes nice use of inverted arch pieces to create a smooth transitional curve between the pistons and boiler, and also for the curve below the front of the smokebox (as in this year's Hogwarts Express set). I am still very curious how the plow on the front is constructed, since its shape is very visible in the catalog pics, but the lack of molded buffers seems to preclude a traditional front plow+buffer+coupling piece like that used on the front of the Emerald Night. A new mold, perhaps?

5 hours ago, Lyichir said:

Mini-doll scale isn't really substantially different from minifig scale? They're just one plate taller and use the same doors, windows, etc.

Only real substantial difference is them needing more legroom when seated.

Yeah, while some Friends sets are a larger scale than their nearest City counterparts (like a lot of the houses, food trucks, cabin cruisers, and buses), that's generally less due to the size of the figures than the Friends theme's emphasis on detailed interiors over action/vehicle play. I guess the subtle height difference could play a bigger role if you were scaling everything to real human height, but obviously that would be impractical for many types of model, especially those like L-gauge trains that have other factors limiting their scale!

Edited October 19, 2023 by Aanchir