[PRESS RELEASE] 42109 - Top Gear Rally Car

[Rudivdk]

1 minute ago, coinoperator said:

If that's the case they used a 200 dollar Ali Express 3D printer.

IF: They use 3D printers for prototyping it will be some high resolution machine that produces top products.
IF !!!

I've seen pics of the development phase of 42056 porsche gt3rs in which they used 3d printed prototype parts and they were grainy like this. Only difference was color white.

That was few years ago so I assume they still 3d print their prototypes. Makes good sense instead of making insanely expensive moulds for something that hasn't proven itself 'in the field'.

[allanp]

There are a few ways this new diff might be stronger, but this is pure speculation. If it isn't pre-assembled then there is a good chance of it having 4 internal gears as opposed to the 3 we've always had before. The 28t gear is much thicker and stronger than the 0.5M wide bevel gear on the current diff so there is less chance of gear slippage there also. Finally, if they are sticking to the same 12t single bevel gears then I hope the axles are pressed 0.5M deeper into the gear, like in the old 4M wide diffs. With the current diff design the bevel gear sits right on the end of the axle. As the axles have rounded over ends and the 12t single bevel gear has a pocket cut out the rear this leaves far less engagement between the axle and the gear which made the axle prone to popping out, or breaking the gear.

4 minutes ago, coinoperator said:

If that's the case they used a 200 dollar Ali Express 3D printer.

IF: They use 3D printers for prototyping it will be some high resolution machine that produces top products.
IF !!!

200 dollar extrusion printers wouldn't look half as good as what we see in that very zooming in picture.

[Rudivdk]

I would hope for pre-assembled, where the axle pockets are a single mould with bevel teeth on them. Then you'd only need two small thin gears inside to link the axles, the rest of the assembly will be much stronger.

[Didumos69]

31 minutes ago, allanp said:

As the axles have rounded over ends and the 12t single bevel gear has a pocket cut out the rear this leaves far less engagement between the axle and the gear which made the axle prone to popping out, or breaking the gear.

So true.

26 minutes ago, Rudivdk said:

I would hope for pre-assembled, where the axle pockets are a single mould with bevel teeth on them. Then you'd only need two small thin gears inside to link the axles, the rest of the assembly will be much stronger.

I hope so too. However, if the two thin gears you are speaking of have friction, like the gears in the new portal hub, then this differential is pretty useless in a manual build, just like the new portal hubs. For RC it would be awesome though. The only disadvantage for RC is that in a 5*7 frame this differential will need to mash with a 12t thick gear. That will give a 12:28 gear reduction, which is more than the 20:28 we are used to now. This is not always convenient. Then again, it does fit my believe that it's good practice to have a high speed / low torque drive train, in particularl when a gearbox is included.

Together with the new portal hubs it seems LEGO is adding RC-specific parts to it's palet. I am curious if that development will continue.

Edited November 19, 2019 by Didumos69

[ian74]

Sorry if this was posted already, but it's up for preorder on the LEGO site. Says it ships Jan 1st. This is in the US by the way.

https://www.lego.com/en-us/product/app-controlled-top-gear-rally-car-42109

[suffocation]

More diff speculation - it may have been designed with a 3x3 space so that you can choose different gear combos to suit your needs, e.g. three knob gears; three half-bevel z20s (with or without added half-bevel z12s); three bevel z12s; two frikandellen and a packet of hagelslag.

[Bubbha]

1 hour ago, MSc Shobaki said:

 

Smart move by TLG I would say as we can now use the differential housing with any of the available clutch gears, 16z and 20z. I hope that the red gear will turn out to be a 28z clutch gear

 

I think the left side of diff, goes inside the 28t. That side of diff seems too big for any other cloutch gear.. 

[Didumos69]

I don't think the red gear is a clutch gear.

I also no longer think the red gear assembly is a differential. I think it's a 3-speed RC gearbox. That would explain the 3 speeds in the control+ screenshot, it would explain the price and it would make it top-gear-collaboration worthy.

Edited November 19, 2019 by Didumos69

[Cumulonimbus]

17 minutes ago, Didumos69 said:

I think the red gear assembly is not a differential, bu a 3-speed RC gearbox. That would explain the 3 speeds in the control+ screenshot, it would explain the price and it would make it top-gear-collaboration worthy.

You might be right, three speeds would be possible to achieve with a planetary gear system like in a bicycle hub gear. If so, my guess is that the internal gears of the planetary hubs from 1H2019 are used in this gearbox as well. The question then is by which mechanism this gearbox is actuated and whether this is a manual function or an RC one?

Edited November 19, 2019 by Cumulonimbus

[MSc Shobaki]

13 minutes ago, Didumos69 said:

I don't think the red gear is a clutch gear.

I think the red gear assembly is not a differential, bu a 3-speed RC gearbox. That would explain the 3 speeds in the control+ screenshot, it would explain the price and it would make it top-gear-collaboration worthy.

How will that work since the packaging only shows one XL- and one L-motor? 
I think the red gear is a new clutch gear and that explains why the kit costs so much.

This kit will give us:

Control+ Hub

XL-motor

L-motor

New differential part

New clutch gear

 

Setting aside the control+ electronics, by releasing 2 brand new parts , the price is justified.

Regarding the gearbox, I think the different speeds are achieved by software programming. I believe the speed is pre-defined in the Control+ program. By selecting the different gear levels using an app button, you limit the current running to the motor.

[suffocation]

2 minutes ago, MSc Shobaki said:

the price is justified.

No way - not even by 42099's extortionate standards is 42109's price justified.

[MSc Shobaki]

16 minutes ago, suffocation said:

No way - not even by 42099's extortionate standards is 42109's price justified.

Why not? Think about it:

You get a Control+, XL-motor and an L-motor. With the control+, you will be able to do some app-programming. This set is rumored to cost 129USD.

In the past, the tracked PF racer cost 80USD, but PF isn’t even close to how advanced Control+ line is. That same kit didn’t even give us any new parts.

Not only this, but add to the fact that IF we get a differential part and a new clutch gear, the price will be justified.

 

[suffocation]

The electronics are worth €50 at the most. There's no way two new molds justify another €80 for 400 parts and change - unless, of course, the diff is some heavy-duty, game-changing piece of engineering that on its own deserves a price tag of at least €40.

Just my rusty tuppence, of course - always gotta point that out lest someone's feelings get hurt.

[Erik Leppen]

Just speculating on the diff...

if the axle has to rotate independent of the housing, and the housing is a gear, then the red 28 gear must have a round hole... what if that's a clutch gear (that would explain why it's red), and the new diff housing has the same 4 ridges as a driving ring? That would also explain why it's off-center, and hence, the 2 different axle lengths.

Other than that, I'm really not a fan of a pre-assembled diff. I'm not a fan of pre-assembled anything, because that'd be exactly not the idea of Lego. Maybe it's a sign of the times and Lego just trying to get its share of a market where kids don't assemble things anymore, but I don't find it a good sign...

But this set is atrociously ugly and overpriced anyway, so what do I care.

[Void_S]

37 minutes ago, Erik Leppen said:

if the axle has to rotate independent of the housing, and the housing is a gear, then the red 28 gear must have a round hole... what if that's a clutch gear (that would explain why it's red), and the new diff housing has the same 4 ridges as a driving ring? That would also explain why it's off-center, and hence, the 2 different axle lengths.

1. 99% that this new diff has the clutch-ready rings with jumpers. It was already presented in the 4L old diff, so I see no reasons why not to keep following this scheme. Especially if this new assembly comes as a new "parallel" (not the ex-new one that worked with only angle connections). As TLG now makes only bevel/double bevel gears (remember, when they released the last "straight" gear?), this "double-bevel" replacement follows all current trends a lot.
   Plus to that, imagine, if with a few parts, this diff in this model can be locked/opened in one touch...
2. As for the clutches, do you remember the cutch "extension" rings that come frequent enough in the gearboxes? This "clutched" diff can be used as a part of some nice gearboxes with them... Imagine a well-working, compact planetary gearbox? The old diffs were bulky and weak enough, but this one.. Ughhh. A CVT gearbox that fits into 9*5*3 space 

[Toastie]

51 minutes ago, suffocation said:

unless, of course, the diff is some heavy-duty, game-changing piece of engineering that on its own deserves a price tag of at least €40.

Huh? ()

You are absolutely right on the electronics. On BL "battery boxes" begin to flow in ... 2IO Hubs, 4OI hubs - and average out at €50, which is spot on with your estimate.

Well then - look out for the €40 game changer.

Best
Thorsten   

[msk6003]

5 hours ago, suffocation said:

The electronics are worth €50 at the most. There's no way two new molds justify another €80 for 400 parts and change - unless, of course, the diff is some heavy-duty, game-changing piece of engineering that on its own deserves a price tag of at least €40.

Just my rusty tuppence, of course - always gotta point that out lest someone's feelings get hurt.

We need considering top gear licence price also.

[kbalage]

12 hours ago, Didumos69 said:

That would explain the 3 speeds in the control+ screenshot

That can be achieved by simply limiting the output level. The latest version of the Powered Up app has a new control interface for cars with a joystick and a boost/nitro button. By default the output level with the joystick is set to 80% and you can get 100% with the press of the button.

[Didumos69]

1 hour ago, kbalage said:

That can be achieved by simply limiting the output level. The latest version of the Powered Up app has a new control interface for cars with a joystick and a boost/nitro button. By default the output level with the joystick is set to 80% and you can get 100% with the press of the button.

You are right of course. Also, if there would have been a RC 3-speed gearbox, it would have been depicted on the box. So I'm in the new differential camp again.

[Permo]

A stronger build differential will be a very welcome part If you ask me.

In a couple of weeks we'll probably know.

[allanp]

1 hour ago, Permo said:

A stronger build differential will be a very welcome part If you ask me.

In a couple of weeks we'll probably know.

@Jim SHOULD have a review copy by now, but that's just my opinion! 

[SNIPE]

I think the thing on the app is just a 'virtual' gearbox, in other words, it just changes the RPM of the drive motor.

I could be wrong of course but to shift gears and with 3 speeds mechanically would take up  a tonne of space which the model doesn't really have considering the C+ XL motor is like half the height of the entire model and it would be on the box if it was, but then again so would a torsen differential.

[Jurss]

On 11/17/2019 at 7:07 PM, Jim said:

First LEGO Technic set designed in partnership with BBC studios

So, is soemthing more planned?

[efferman]

32 minutes ago, Jurss said:

So, is soemthing more planned?

Hover Van? or would this be to much Clarkson, Hammond, May?

[Maaboo the Witch]

1 hour ago, efferman said:

Hover Van? or would this be to much Clarkson, Hammond, May?

If not, then I want the CLAAS Dominator snowplough!