Planetary hub internals

[Zerobricks]

After driving the Wildcat outside I noticed one of the hubs suddenly had quite a lot of friction. No amount of cleaning helped, so i decided to took it apart:

The outer plastic lip seems to be welded to the hub and is holding evertyhing together. Inside there are three gears, behind each pin. You can also see some of the dirt that got inside.

I do not recommend driving any of the models with these hubs over water or in dusty envoirment. Unlike any other technic mechanism, these can't be simply taken apart and cleaned. Also the grease is thick and sticky, additionally attracting dirt.

[efferman]

Thank you very much

[Maaboo the Witch]

So driving it outside is pretty much out of the question, except if you stick to dry tarmac? Sucks.

[Zerobricks]

3 minutes ago, Maaboo35 said:

So driving it outside is pretty much out of the question, except if you stick to dry tarmac? Sucks.

From what I figured out during my testing and driving, these hubs are not suitable for extremme offroading. What they are suitable for though is for vehicles where you need a good gear ratio and a nice steering pivot point and where ground clearance is not so important. For example the massive trucks @Lucio Switch builds which probably wont be taken outside through the mud and such.

Edited September 12, 2019 by Zerobricks

[Mechbuilds]

Oh well.. Wont be investing in getting these hubs.. 
I always hoped there was a way to open it without breaking it and having a mod of some sort to make them water proof.. 

[brunojj1]

So after all the other the other drawbacks in the glorious 42099 crawler set and the damaged u-joints you demonstrated earlier, I see not one single little reason to consider anything of it to be useful. Shame on the TLC for spending as many resources into the research and development of "new generation" components and making the set so expensive. The product development in general makes me sick when I compare it with the happy days 6-7 years ago.

[Zerobricks]

Just now, brunojj1 said:

So after all the other the other drawbacks in the glorious 42099 crawler set and the damaged u-joints you demonstrated earlier, I see not one single little reason to consider anything of it to be useful. Shame on the TLC for spending as many resources into the research and development of "new generation" components and making the set so expensive. The product development in general makes me sick when I compare it with the happy days 6-7 years ago.

I wouldn't be so negative. The new parts do have their uses for big, relastic, heavy models, they are just not capable of what we expected from them.

[Vectormatic]

wouldnt it be possible to just inject more/thicker grease into the openings of the mechanism, to keep any dirt out of the cogs?

Failing that, maybe just flushing out the gear without disassembly (dont try wd40 though) might clean it out, then inject new grease with a syringe and off you go?

[Zerobricks]

1 hour ago, vectormatic said:

wouldnt it be possible to just inject more/thicker grease into the openings of the mechanism, to keep any dirt out of the cogs?

Failing that, maybe just flushing out the gear without disassembly (dont try wd40 though) might clean it out, then inject new grease with a syringe and off you go?

The hub has no holes that can be used to inject the grease once it's closed.

[Jundis]

Just counted the teeth... 44 on the planetary, 10 on the sun gear. So we really got 1:4.4, not 1:5 as mostly stated :-)

[Zerobricks]

2 minutes ago, Jundis said:

Just counted the teeth... 44 on the planetary, 10 on the sun gear. So we really got 1:4.4, not 1:5 as mostly stated :-)

+1, making it a total of 5,4

[TeamThrifty]

4 hours ago, brunojj1 said:

The product development in general makes me sick when I compare it with the happy days 6-7 years ago.

Is lego recommended for use with RC motors in an outside environment?

If it is, then you have a valid point.. if it isn't, then you're over-reacting. Quite a lot. 

(and the answer is a binary fact-based one, not opinion. Is lego for outside use with over powered motors. Yes or No)

[Sariel]

1 hour ago, Zerobricks said:

+1, making it a total of 5,4

Precisely. This is the same ratio I've calculated from my X-ray shots.

[brunojj1]

1 hour ago, TeamThrifty said:

Is lego recommended for use with RC motors in an outside environment?

If it is, then you have a valid point.. if it isn't, then you're over-reacting. Quite a lot. 

(and the answer is a binary fact-based one, not opinion. Is lego for outside use with over powered motors. Yes or No)

I don´t care if it´s recommended somewhere in small letters - the box clearly says „OFF-ROADER“ + the picture on the box is clearly advertising a use in an outdoor environment. Almost all significant reviews shown on YT are testing it outside, quite reasonable to have a bit of fun playing. I mean there are big letdowns for me as a potential buyer - first my disappointment about the new BT technology, not being compatible with most older electronics. The app being non-open-source which could mean after one year or two it´s becoming useless even for the set itself if not being updated permanently for all upcoming devices. Now I even can´t use the new hubs and u-joints which I was expecting to give me some advantage above the older hubs in any of my future applications. The price tag about 230,00 EUR I simply refuse to accept as a customer. And yes, it was only expressing my critical personal (non-biased) opinion, which I based on other experts reviews. 

[Attika]

1 minute ago, brunojj1 said:

I don´t care if it´s recommended somewhere in small letters - the box clearly says „OFF-ROADER“ + the picture on the box is clearly advertising a use in an outdoor environment. Almost all significant reviews shown on YT are testing it outside, quite reasonable to have a bit of fun playing. I mean there are big letdowns for me as a potential buyer - first my disappointment about the new BT technology, not being compatible with most older electronics. The app being non-open-source which could mean after one year or two it´s becoming useless even for the set itself if not being updated permanently for all upcoming devices. Now I even can´t use the new hubs and u-joints which I was expecting to give me some advantage above the older hubs in any of my future applications. The price tag about 230,00 EUR I simply refuse to accept as a customer. And yes, it was only expressing my critical personal (non-biased) opinion, which I based on other experts reviews. 

With respect, I bought 12 of these hubs, but not the set.(I don't like the new electronics either) All the hubs are in constant use, all together 6 rc and two PF L motors in the 3 vehicles. And they get it hard, but apart from some reasonable wear, no problem came ahead on this lot. I've started as they came,  dipping the cv heads into silicone oil. Apart from one that I forgot to lubricate. The photo speaks for itself. High performance comes with a price. Lubrication. For those, who don't like lub on the parts: Well, the parts do like it. Just listen them, they speak on the language of physics. Of course there is a limit on rpm and torque they can take, it isn't a DARPA project, it is ABS.  

Outdoor isn't a problem, but keeping away from dust sure helps on the life expectancy as it did with any other moving part before.  At this point for me, this hub is the best thing could happen to my inventory so far.

[kbalage]

33 minutes ago, brunojj1 said:

 The app being non-open-source which could mean after one year or two it´s becoming useless even for the set itself if not being updated permanently for all upcoming devices.

PF was around for 10 years, we can safely assume LEGO will provide app support for the lifetime of Powered Up which will not be less than that. Additionally, the protocol is open source so anyone can create a 3rd party app to control these elements (which is being done already).

 

 

37 minutes ago, brunojj1 said:

I don´t care if it´s recommended somewhere in small letters - the box clearly says „OFF-ROADER“ + the picture on the box is clearly advertising a use in an outdoor environment. Almost all significant reviews shown on YT are testing it outside, quite reasonable to have a bit of fun playing. 

I spent several hours with 42099 outdoors and I don't have any issues with the hubs or the joints. Running the hubs with RC buggy motors in dirt/mud/etc. is still beyond the "standard usage" according to my dictionary.

 

[SNIPE]

I just know not to get lego dirty cause it's not designed for that .

[TeamThrifty]

7 hours ago, kbalage said:

Additionally, the protocol is open source so anyone can create a 3rd party app to control these elements (which is being done already).

100% correct.. 

(haters are gonna hate..)

[andythenorth]

18 hours ago, Mechbuilds said:

I always hoped there was a way to open it without breaking it and having a mod of some sort to make them water proof.. 

'openable' and 'reliably waterproof' tend to be opposed goals in product manufacturing. 

[Zerobricks]

18 hours ago, Mechbuilds said:

Oh well.. Wont be investing in getting these hubs.. 
I always hoped there was a way to open it without breaking it and having a mod of some sort to make them water proof.. 

They could have made the outer lip part, so you could unscrew it. But it would probably be a challenge to keep it from unscrewing itself by the wheels spinning.

[Bartybum]

Just now, Zerobricks said:

They could have made the outer lip part, so you could unscrew it. But it would probably be a challenge to keep it from unscrewing itself by the wheels spinning.

It also couldn't be injection molded.

[powerwindows83]

as someone who doesnt own these hubs but might later on, what about drilling a tiny hole somewhere in the case to inject grease? if yes, make it a pluggable hole so its almost like a normal periodic oil change?

[coinoperator]

On 9/12/2019 at 5:51 PM, Zerobricks said:

After driving the Wildcat outside I noticed one of the hubs suddenly had quite a lot of friction. No amount of cleaning helped, so i decided to took it apart:

The outer plastic lip seems to be welded to the hub and is holding evertyhing together. Inside there are three gears, behind each pin. You can also see some of the dirt that got inside.

I do not recommend driving any of the models with these hubs over water or in dusty envoirment. Unlike any other technic mechanism, these can't be simply taken apart and cleaned. Also the grease is thick and sticky, additionally attracting dirt.

Mr NULL bricks is using a functional model for racing toy outside.

Come on, buy yourself a Mugen Seiki 1:8 nitro car.
That thing IS designed for abuse.

Men o men...
use a lego model in dirt... zero brains

[Mechbuilds]

Just now, coinoperator said:

Mr NULL bricks is using a functional model for racing toy outside.

Come on, buy yourself a Mugen Seiki 1:8 nitro car.
That thing IS designed for abuse.

Men o men...
use a lego model in dirt... zero brains

Using a lego offroad vehicle in offroad.. zero brains indeed.

[coinoperator]

1 minute ago, Mechbuilds said:

Using a lego offroad vehicle in offroad.. zero brains indeed.

It a functional MODEL.
Not a mud racer like the Outdoor Racer 8675.
You must be really out of your mind to use this set in an outdoor dirt situation.

Edited September 14, 2019 by coinoperator