The Future of Lego Space. (opinions, ideas, discussion)

[MAB]

Bricklink have been tinkering with their catalog. In their new XP catalog, they have redefined what it means to be Classic Space. On the plus side there are now many more Classic Space minifigures. On the downside, well GS and AC are now officially (well, according to Bricklink) Classic Space.

https://www.bricklink.com/r3/search.page?cat2=M%3A5286.5521&q=classic space

So the future is bright for Classic Space. Sort of. Not really.

[danth]

This is why LEGO buying Bricklink is bad news.

They're not doing things in the best interest of collectors. They're doing things in the interest of LEGO the corporation.

If collectors can't find the vintage sets they want, that's fine for LEGO. They want us buying new sets.

[icm]

That's absurd.  Who the heck ordered that?  If they shuffle the parts around like they're shuffling around the minifigs, a site that is already extremely difficult to use is going to become a hundred times worse.

[Murdoch17]

34 minutes ago, icm said:

That's absurd.  Who the heck ordered that?  If they shuffle the parts around like they're shuffling around the minifigs, a site that is already extremely difficult to use is going to become a hundred times worse.

They already have. Go look at the "building" section under parts. It shows what used to be in "support" and "fences", (on the old Bricklink) under one tab.

Edited April 30, 2020 by Murdoch17

[MAB]

If you want some fun, search for Space Police or Blacktron or Insectoids or any Space-y theme in their logical new catalog. Sorry, they don't exist any more. 

[Digger of Bricks]

On 4/28/2020 at 1:06 AM, Harkonen said:

I don't know if it was discussed before, but I found a nice project based on Seatron cancelled theme. I supported it:

https://ideas.lego.com/projects/f838d572-6d91-4a91-ada2-65b1b812014f

I had mentioned it on another topic a little while back... 

Speaking of Ideas, here's a pretty serious-looking Blacktron-themed submission from this morning that I'm sure many here will be interested in... 

LEGO Ideas - Blacktron Renegade Raiders by HP_Brixxter

[danth]

5 hours ago, Digger of Bricks said:

LEGO Ideas - Blacktron Renegade Raiders by HP_Brixxter

That's pretty great. Almost looks mashed up with the Serenity.

[Captain Mutant]

Hey guys. I was interviewed by Beyond the Brick, and we talked about my Space Outpost :D

 

 

[astral brick]

26 projects have qualified for the next review, not a single Space classic theme one is present. I wonder if there is really a future for Space, too many great models aren't able to reach the 10k votes and we have to be satisfied, at most, with a 3-in-1 set, discussing if a rover is "space" or not and why a classic colour pattern wasn't chosen for it. I am afraid that we only are the usual four cats to vote anything with a vague resemblance to this theme, thus failing every time. 

[Captain Mutant]

10 minutes ago, astral brick said:

26 projects have qualified for the next review, not a single Space classic theme one is present. I wonder if there is really a future for Space, too many great models aren't able to reach the 10k votes and we have to be satisfied, at most, with a 3-in-1 set, discussing if a rover is "space" or not and why a classic colour pattern wasn't chosen for it. I am afraid that we only are the usual four cats to vote anything with a vague resemblance to this theme, thus failing every time. 

As one of the four cats, all I can say is a very sad sounding "meow"

I've done my best chaps and chapettes but even the mighty Beyond the Brick haven't been able to give my project the lift it needs ? 

[astral brick]

4 hours ago, Captain Mutant said:

As one of the four cats, all I can say is a very sad sounding "meow"

The saddest thing is to realize that, in spite of the effort of gathering the votes, Lego would have probably rejected the idea based on space or simply true sci-fi. There are baffling examples that still surprise me when I think of them.

4 hours ago, Captain Mutant said:

I've done my best chaps and chapettes but even the mighty Beyond the Brick haven't been able to give my project the lift it needs ? 

I am sorry. You are in good company anyway, somehow Peter Reid's project is failing too.

[Lego David]

12 hours ago, astral brick said:

26 projects have qualified for the next review, not a single Space classic theme one is present. I wonder if there is really a future for Space, too many great models aren't able to reach the 10k votes and we have to be satisfied, at most, with a 3-in-1 set, discussing if a rover is "space" or not and why a classic colour pattern wasn't chosen for it. I am afraid that we only are the usual four cats to vote anything with a vague resemblance to this theme, thus failing every time. 

If you want a space project to reach 10k, just focus on the one which has the biggest chance of getting approved and promote it as much as you can. Bionicle (which is even less likely to have a future than Space) managed to get 10k supporters simply by being promoted a lot. I think the same thing can also happen with a Sci-Fi Space project. 

[Captain Mutant]

27 minutes ago, Lego David said:

If you want a space project to reach 10k, just focus on the one which has the biggest chance of getting approved and promote it as much as you can. Bionicle (which is even less likely to have a future than Space) managed to get 10k supporters simply by being promoted a lot. I think the same thing can also happen with a Sci-Fi Space project. 

I think you're right: there was only one Bionicle project, so the fans could focus their attention on it exclusively.

There are many space projects - of course, I have a fondness for one in particular myself... ;)

[pombe]

21 hours ago, Captain Mutant said:

As one of the four cats, all I can say is a very sad sounding "meow"

I've done my best chaps and chapettes but even the mighty Beyond the Brick haven't been able to give my project the lift it needs ? 

I'm sorry it didn't get the support it needed to get to the review process.  I was rooting for it, for sure.

Seeing as how LEGO IDEAS is one avenue for us to get sci-fi sets, this round of reviews was pretty disappointing.  I guess there's not much of an appetite for sci-fi (outside of licensed themes) among the FOLs who vote on IDEAS.  Given the increased interest in IDEAS due to the pandemic, I had toyed with the idea of submitting a neo Classic Space MOC of mine, but now I'm too discouraged to try.

[Captain Mutant]

42 minutes ago, pombe said:

I'm sorry it didn't get the support it needed to get to the review process.  I was rooting for it, for sure.

Thank you - It's not dead yet: I have 200 days to find around 3,900 votes, but statistically speaking, it's not looking good.

43 minutes ago, pombe said:

Seeing as how LEGO IDEAS is one avenue for us to get sci-fi sets, this round of reviews was pretty disappointing.  I guess there's not much of an appetite for sci-fi (outside of licensed themes) among the FOLs who vote on IDEAS.  Given the increased interest in IDEAS due to the pandemic, I had toyed with the idea of submitting a neo Classic Space MOC of mine, but now I'm too discouraged to try.

I think that's the problem right there. 

Those who visit the Ideas site are real-science space fans, but not so keen on the fantasy/sci-fi element of space.

I spoke to Peter Reid at length about this, and he told me he got lucky with the Exo Suit as most sci-fi space proposals don't go far beyond 2k and none have reached 5k recently.

It certainly is discouraging, for sure.

[Exetrius]

10 hours ago, Lego David said:

Bionicle (which is even less likely to have a future than Space) managed to get 10k supporters simply by being promoted a lot. I think the same thing can also happen with a Sci-Fi Space project. 

I strongly disagree. Bionicle is making a return in the public mind, both inside and outside the LEGO community. First through memes, but now also fan initiatives are gaining more momentum. Just look at the trailer of Bionicle: Quest for Mata Nui with 210,000 views, released only two weeks ago. Additionally, Bionicle never got a lore-oriented, play-and-display build, while the demand for such is high, and project creator Sokoda completely nailed the design and visual presentation. No, this is not about 'promoting it a lot', there's definitely much more to it.  

1 hour ago, pombe said:

Seeing as how LEGO IDEAS is one avenue for us to get sci-fi sets, this round of reviews was pretty disappointing.  I guess there's not much of an appetite for sci-fi (outside of licensed themes) among the FOLs who vote on IDEAS.  Given the increased interest in IDEAS due to the pandemic, I had toyed with the idea of submitting a neo Classic Space MOC of mine, but now I'm too discouraged to try.

22 minutes ago, Captain Mutant said:

Those who visit the Ideas site are real-science space fans, but not so keen on the fantasy/sci-fi element of space.

I spoke to Peter Reid at length about this, and he told me he got lucky with the Exo Suit as most sci-fi space proposals don't go far beyond 2k and none have reached 5k recently.

I think a big problem is that as is the case with castles, there are tons that all look kind of the same, with some of them that really stand out. It really needs to be extraordinarily good, but possibly even more than that. For example the Old Fishing Store wasn't just a store, as it also had kind of a pier, a bit of a beach and something akin to a lighthouse. Classic Space is essentially just a colour scheme and a logo, and because it has been so thoroughly explored through MOCs, I think only something that both looks unearthly cool (see what I did there? ) and is a unique take on the genre has a chance of reaching 10K. It's different for spacecraft that have already gained fame. IIRC, the Exo Suit was already a well-known creation through some (semi-) official LEGO books it appeared in, on top of meeting the aforementioned conditions for original (Classic Space) works.

 

23 hours ago, astral brick said:

. I wonder if there is really a future for Space, too many great models aren't able to reach the 10k votes and we have to be satisfied, at most, with a 3-in-1 set, discussing if a rover is "space" or not and why a classic colour pattern wasn't chosen for it.

I think we just need to have patience until something arrives that blows us away, I am quite an optimistic person.  I'm surprised the rover isn't explicitly celebrated in this thread, to be honest. I mean, take a look:

 

 

The rover looks great, and the alternate builds also look good! It's literally a Vic Viper up there! And there's a space base, not so much unlike Captain Mutants space base, in concept. Icing on the cake: a new CS inspired space figure! Though I agree that this would look better in the CS colour scheme, I think this set deserves more love!

[Captain Mutant]

15 minutes ago, Exetrius said:

I think we just need to have patience until something arrives that blows us away, I am quite an optimistic person.  I'm surprised the rover isn't explicitly celebrated in this thread, to be honest. I mean, take a look:

I am intrigued by the rover - I might actually get it to populate my larger Space Outpost. We'll see :)

But really, it's just a tease for a sci-fi nerd. Didn't LEGO have another similar 3-in-1 a few years back?

As far as blowing us away... maybe we shouldn't be too picky and vote for any original sci-fi set that comes along? Any one that gets through would be a win. Personally I'm tired of third party IPs (which is another reason why I may get that rover).

[Lego David]

5 hours ago, Exetrius said:

I strongly disagree. Bionicle is making a return in the public mind, both inside and outside the LEGO community. First through memes, but now also fan initiatives are gaining more momentum. Just look at the trailer of Bionicle: Quest for Mata Nui with 210,000 views, released only two weeks ago. Additionally, Bionicle never got a lore-oriented, play-and-display build, while the demand for such is high, and project creator Sokoda completely nailed the design and visual presentation. No, this is not about 'promoting it a lot', there's definitely much more to it.  

Well, the promotion certainly helped. In the period soon after it was discovered that Bionicle was allowed on LEGO Ideas, the site got flooded with Bionicle projects, but none of them went anywhere due to their very limited promotion. Sokoda's set, on the other hand, got promoted by pretty much everybody on various Social Media platforms, including YouTube, Twitter, Instagram, Reddit etc, and it managed to gather support so quickly because of that. 

[astral brick]

12 hours ago, pombe said:

I guess there's not much of an appetite for sci-fi (outside of licensed themes) among the FOLs who vote on IDEAS.  Given the increased interest in IDEAS due to the pandemic, I had toyed with the idea of submitting a neo Classic Space MOC of mine, but now I'm too discouraged to try.

Here it is, the vicious circle. However I cannot blame you.

11 hours ago, Captain Mutant said:

Those who visit the Ideas site are real-science space fans, but not so keen on the fantasy/sci-fi element of space.

I think you are right. As far as I am concerned, this is kind of a lego dystopia, Space is gone and the City sets related to space that I remember from my childhood - and that I have never appreciated - have somehow replaced it.  

[astral brick]

10 hours ago, Exetrius said:

Classic Space is essentially just a colour scheme and a logo, and because it has been so thoroughly explored through MOCs, I think only something that both looks unearthly cool (see what I did there? ) and is a unique take on the genre has a chance of reaching 10K.

What should Space builders have to do more than they have already done? I mean, there are present and past models on Ideas that are simply amazing.

10 hours ago, Exetrius said:

The rover looks great,

It does

10 hours ago, Exetrius said:

and the alternate builds also look good! It's literally a Vic Viper up there!

Indeed, I noticed the same thing in another thread. Besides, it does have snot wings, isn't it a first time for a spaceship?

10 hours ago, Exetrius said:

And there's a space base, not so much unlike Captain Mutants space base, in concept. Icing on the cake: a new CS inspired space figure! Though I agree that this would look better in the CS colour scheme, I think this set deserves more love!

It is like Lego is afraid of using its own famous colour schemes that could boost the sales, incomprehensible behaviour.

[TeriXeri]

LEGO MOVIE 2 overall was space-focused theme, but some sets got mixed reactions, it seemed Benny's Squad was very popular however.

2019 City Space was a great direction as well, especially the People Pack imo.

For 2020 there's the Rover and the orange space figure, but hopefully there'll be more.

 

As for the non sci-fi Space fans, while Saturn V retired, there was the Lunar Lander in 2019 and now the IDEAS ISS.

I personally don't care about those NASA/SpaceX type sets on IDEAS so it's a shame there's no sci-fi or classic space type sets at 10k, but IDEAS is becoming very populated with licensed sets that skyrocket to 10k within weeks, yet many actually original IDEAS not based on a particular IP get forgotten easily and just sit there for hundreds of days (like the LL497 that's about to retire in 30 days at 2800 votes right now )

 

 

Edited May 7, 2020 by TeriXeri

[Lord Insanity]

On 5/6/2020 at 6:25 PM, Exetrius said:

Classic Space is essentially just a colour scheme and a logo, and because it has been so thoroughly explored through MOCs, I think only something that both looks unearthly cool (see what I did there? ) and is a unique take on the genre has a chance of reaching 10K.

17 hours ago, astral brick said:

What should Space builders have to do more than they have already done? I mean, there are present and past models on Ideas that are simply amazing.

There are present Space models on Ideas that are simply amazing?  Where are they?  Sorry but I think Exetrius is right on the money with this.  There hasn't been any absolutely stunning Ideas project that transcends the barrier of "already a Space fan and will vote for it anyway."

Look at it from a casual perspective and not a die-hard Space fan.  Searching "Space Base" on Ideas and Captain Mutant's project doesn't even come up in first batch.  Where is the Space Base on Ideas that matches the awesomeness of the Chemical Plant or Train Station Studgate.  (Both of which would make better Space Base parts packs that most of the actual space builds on Ideas)  Searching "Spaceship" results in the Blacktron Renegade remake and a few Galaxy Explorer style Remakes amid a sea of "junk".  Both of which from a corporate paper pusher perspective Lego has already done modern versions of.  (See Benny's Spaceship and all The Lego Batman Movie sets)  Where are the original Spaceship designs and how will they compete against things Lego currently has on the shelf that fills that demand?  (See the current City Space theme and I would argue the Avenger Ultimate Quinjet is basically a modern equivalent classic spaceship.)

Don't get me wrong I would absolutely buy several of the current Ideas projects if they managed to hit 10k and get approved.  However, I totally see why most of them really have no chance of capturing the attention of the average casual Lego fan that really needs a "Wow factor" to bother voting for something.

Hey at least we are getting a new astronaut design with a classic logo in the upcoming Creator set.

[gedren_y]

For Space projects on Ideas to really get the kind of support needed to pass, they have to somehow capture the interest of non-LEGO sci-fi enthusiasts. The problem is LEGO has Star Wars, which overlaps so much of that community that competing for attention without a popular IP is difficult. Niche appeal is the only real way to go, but that requires a significant level of promotion outside the LEGO community.

If you're going the IP route, you need to do research. Who owns it? Would they license with LEGO? What objections could LEGO have? What kind of other products are on the market? Will existing parts portray it to fans' satisfaction? That last is most important, because fans can just as easily kill a project as give it the support it needs.

[Captain Mutant]

9 hours ago, Lord Insanity said:

Searching "Space Base" on Ideas and Captain Mutant's project doesn't even come up in first batch.

I know - I don't understand why my project is buried death beneath tons, even when doing specific searches. I'm cursed, I tells ya.

Just now, gedren_y said:

The problem is LEGO has Star Wars, which overlaps so much of that community that competing for attention without a popular IP is difficult.

I always thought my base would actually work quite well in a Star Wars setting ;)

9 hours ago, Lord Insanity said:

However, I totally see why most of them really have no chance of capturing the attention of the average casual Lego fan that really needs a "Wow factor" to bother voting for something.

I think you're right. Even though I believe I myself did create a 'wow' factor, it's actually a complex concept which people need to spend time appreciating, not something you can look at for 5 seconds (at most) and figure out what it's about. 

[mrfang2]

21 out of 30 ideas sets so far have been IP related, counting the nasa/ real company ip’s. It’s time to just face the music at this point that ideas is not viable for this kind of thing. It’s an IP testing ground above all else. 
 

if we want to see LEGO return to original space sets, we need to support them doing original sets in general. Hidden side, ninjago, monkie kid, those are the things that tell LEGO “keep experimenting, keep trying things”. And although maybe not suitable for classic space, look at those themes, take away the original characters, and look at the stuff they have to offer. Just as an example, the cloud jet from monkie kid. It’s a very sci-fi flying vehicle, with a function to split its cockpit off into a motorcycle. That would work stupendously one sci fi settings. So would the hoverboard in the horse-motorcycle set. So would tons of the nexo knights sets, with minimal changes. Even ninjago, while usually sticking to a fairly distinct style, has waves like prime empire that feature tons of great sci fi vehicles. 
 

lego will see what people actually buy. If nobody is voting space on ideas, and nobody is buying sci fi related sets other than star wars, then we’re gonna get another 20 years of bland grey And white Star Wars ships.