Bionicle 2015 Discussion

[Mandate]

Secondly, I could be wrong, but having been at NYCC myself I don't recommend anyone mentioning anything about the amount of summer sets we're going to receive

Hmm... great recommendation

Anyway, nail polish remover definitely works. Apparently one of the (directors, I believe?) guys working on TLM tried using it on Unikitty's face to see if the script was accurate. You can guess the result

[Scarilian]

Despite what everyone has being saying about the documentation, we can be pretty certain that we'll be getting 5 sets in Summer. Most likely being the more expensive sets. An Ekimu or Makuta set seems certain in order to get one of the three main masks (Presumably releasing one per year) and if this is partially a soft-reboot then chances are we will see a variation of Takanuva. As for the other sets my best guess would be a vehicle set and/or a Rahi set (Or this continuities version of the equivalent)

Edited November 25, 2014 by Scarilian

[VBBN]

I'm quite curious as to the price point of the more "expensive" sets. We are already getting three $20 sets, and the biggest constraction pricetag released in recent years is only $35, I would certainly like to see something much bigger. As it stands, the $20 Toa don't really feel like big sets in fact, Lewa and Gali not only look around the same height, but also feel just as substantial.

Something like Witch Doctor's size would be a welcome addition.

[bacem]

Something like Witch Doctor's size would be a welcome addition.

so much yes to that! we have never seen proper titan since 2011. even queen beast, which i was hoping to be huge monster before i seen any picture of her, turns out to be just on the same size as evo xl machine.

[dviddy]

Honestly I would rather not see something at that scale again. The extra large figures are just weird next to the other sets. Vehicles at that size make sense- they are vehicles after all. But I would rather the characters stay somewhat in scale. Takanuva08, Toa Mata Nui, Witch Doctor, all of these looked awkward next to their wave counterparts.

[VBBN]

Not review quality pics of course but this was just some leg testing. (Hence the random grey bones, all of my black bones are currently in Kronos.) It's not perfect and obviously a much better armoring system could have been used especially where the glatorian necks are concerned, but this is to prove my point that articulated legs could have been used. I used a slippery surface and had absolutely no problem posing him, he wasn't fiddly or troublesome, and his functionality still remains the same. I opted to give him different lengths of legs, of course that's personal preference.

Oh, and uh ignore the shovel big behind, just kinda stuck it there as a temporary fix.

Honestly I would rather not see something at that scale again. The extra large figures are just weird next to the other sets. Vehicles at that size make sense- they are vehicles after all. But I would rather the characters stay somewhat in scale. Takanuva08, Toa Mata Nui, Witch Doctor, all of these looked awkward next to their wave counterparts.

I was thinking more along the lines of a massive Exo-Toa.

[arc]

I have to say, despite being a fan of LoSS, I really like what you've done. This and the mods by theoneveyronian give me some ideas.

And on the topic of large figures, I'm a fan. I kinda like having larger giants that pose a bigger threat to there enemies. (And there always fun to build and admire) although I guess I can see where some may not like the scale. Personally it doesn't bother me.

[GK733]

I was okay with Titan Takanuva as a set. But in the story he wasn't even grown so that really don't make much sense. Witch Doctor on the other hand was made giant for the story.

What I'm not liking in LOSS storywise is that he is much smaller as as set than what appears in the story. Look at the NYCC presentation photos and compare the size of Kopaka, Lewa and Gali to it.

https://www.facebook...pe=3&permPage=1

I would have preferred a much larger LOSS than what we got.

Edited November 25, 2014 by GK733

[TheDesuComplex]

I would like to see bigger figures along the lines of Witch Doctor, Scorpio, and the Queen Beast as villains; something to outsize the Masters.

Vehicles could also work rather well, as long as it's more substantial then motorcycles...

[Infernum]

I was thinking more along the lines of a massive Exo-Toa.

Ooooh! Yes please!

[Dorek]

I was okay with Titan Takanuva as a set. But in the story he wasn't even grown so that really don't make much sense. Witch Doctor on the other hand was made giant for the story.

Actually, he was enlarged by the energies of Karda Nui, so the size was canon too.

I thought Witch Doctor's size was a little silly, since he then gets his butt handed to him by minuscule Heroes, but it's something they tweaked for future designs by changing up the sizes of all heroes and villains (now, in BIONICLE, we're seeing the opposite problem!). I'm totally down for larger figures like that, though, those are always the most interesting to me.

[Aanchir]

I do like larger figures from a construction standpoint, but yeah, I do have to agree, they often feel awkward from a storytelling standpoint.

I wouldn't mind giant monsters like the 2001 Rahi or Bahrag, but it's good to keep in mind that despite those being larger sets, they also came two to a set. So an individual figure like the Muaka or Bahrag could easily have been sold at just $30 or $35.

A figure like the Manas could have been a $45 set individually, and even less if you stripped away its specialized electronics. Even for a hypothetical new RC set, today's Power Functions parts could result in a much better building experience for a lower price. Just look at the Monster Dino from LEGO Creator, an example of a more recent RC set that used generic Power Functions elements rather than more specialized remotes and motors. Same price as the Manas, but with 332 more pieces!

Some might argue, correctly, that constraction generally has a higher price per piece than System or Technic. But the fact that Lord of Skull Spiders has a Technic-intensive build (and a lower price per piece than most of the Rahi sets of 2001) means that intricate Technic-based monsters might still be on the table for later in the year. And to be honest, that kind of excites me! Even though more articulated building styles are more in tune with my personal style, I can respect that kind of mechanical intricacy, and I also feel that the Technic theme has been lacking in more fantasy-inspired creations, so Technic-based BIONICLE creatures and vehicles might help fill that void.

[Lord-Vorahk]

I dunno, I really like having larger characters from a storytelling standpoint. Transformers tends to manage fine with different size classes, and that was one thing I felt the Bay films succeeded at. Huge characters like Blackout and Grimlock never seemed too big, really. They looked pretty good.

I'm admit, I'm not much of a technic person. I'm much more fond of aesthetic and posability than functions, but if you can get all three working together, then I'll happily buy that, and that's why I love the new Toa. And yet, I now find myself disliking LoSS even more, now that VBBN has showed off the mod. I mean, I love the mod, and it looks good, but honestly, if I'm going to be Bricklinking a load of CCBS parts to give him decent limbs, I might as well bricklink the whole thing, leave out the parts that I don't want, like the gears, beams, and chest-face, and just get the mask, joints and pin, while using the rest of the money to get parts for a different spidery villain.

[Kalhiki]

I do like larger figures from a construction standpoint, but yeah, I do have to agree, they often feel awkward from a storytelling standpoint.

Not really directing this at you, but for everyone with that standpoint:

I don't see why large characters in the story is strange especially for villains. Giant villains are used more often than not. Just look at Megatron, Sauron, and even the Overlord from Ninjago who turned into a giant frikkin dragon. And for a more familiar example, even Makuta was fairly large in the movies.

Good guys, eh. Don't really care either way. Though I will admit it's nice to see a big dude every once in a while. Bulkhead and Grimlock from Transformers come to mind.

I don't know. To me it just adds something cool where you see a small good guy take down the big, massive villain. So, I'd love to see villains larger than the heroes.

Main villains, that is. The goons can be of an equal size to the good guys.

[Agent Fusion]

Large villains don't bother me at all, nor do small villains. As long as the appearance fits the character, I'm fine.

[dviddy]

Not really directing this at you, but for everyone with that standpoint:

I don't see why large characters in the story is strange especially for villains. Giant villains are used more often than not. Just look at Megatron, Sauron, and even the Overlord from Ninjago who turned into a giant frikkin dragon. And for a more familiar example, even Makuta was fairly large in the movies.

Good guys, eh. Don't really care either way. Though I will admit it's nice to see a big dude every once in a while. Bulkhead and Grimlock from Transformers come to mind.

I don't know. To me it just adds something cool where you see a small good guy take down the big, massive villain. So, I'd love to see villains larger than the heroes.

Main villains, that is. The goons can be of an equal size to the good guys.

I think it breaks the bounds of what I'm willing to believe. My suspension of disbelief runs deep, but when all the media from location art to films show things being built as if set to a specific height, characters like 08 Takanuva break the story for me. They just don't fit. Sauron, by the way, has, outside of the eye, never been shown as double the average height- he is big, but not unbelievably so. (I'm also a huge TF nerd and the massive size differences there make slightly more sense considering the altmodes, plus their worlds and ships are scaled to them, whereas it never felt that way for larger humanoid characters in prior constraction materials.)

[Mandate]

Sauron, by the way, has, outside of the eye, never been shown as double the average height- he is big, but not unbelievably so

If TT Games' take on LOTR is anywhere near accurate as to how big Sauron is, his helmet alone can squash someone. If you go by Monolith Games' depiction, he's twice the size of Celibrimbor (and earlier the same size). This includes times when Sauron wasn't wearing the Ring, so... yeah...

Edited November 25, 2014 by JayWalker

[Lord-Vorahk]

I dunno, Sidorak and Roodaka looked pretty comfortable in Metru Nui in WoS. Plus, let's remember that the standard inhabitant of these places was a short Matoran. I guess they just built everything big.

[Kalhiki]

I think it breaks the bounds of what I'm willing to believe. My suspension of disbelief runs deep, but when all the media from location art to films show things being built as if set to a specific height, characters like 08 Takanuva break the story for me. They just don't fit. Sauron, by the way, has, outside of the eye, never been shown as double the average height- he is big, but not unbelievably so. (I'm also a huge TF nerd and the massive size differences there make slightly more sense considering the altmodes, plus their worlds and ships are scaled to them, whereas it never felt that way for larger humanoid characters in prior constraction materials.)

'08 Takanuva was a weird case. It felt (and still feels) like they just wanted to make a titan Takanuva and wrote it into the story.

Yeah, Sauron was probably a bad example. Point is, he's still taller than your average Joe.

Like I said, I never had a problem with big characters especially in Bionicle and Hero Factory. And part of why is due to the fact that those were both in universes that possessed multiple different species, so it makes sense that there would be variations in the sizes of said species.

Anywho, while I like super huge baddies, I'll settle for one that's, say, a head or two taller than a Toa. Maybe if we could get a higher priced figure that doesn't focus on height but rather on bulk or mass, it'd be better. Looking back at Witch Doctor, he was a pretty gappy figure (those arms), so in the future, I'd like to see a much more solidly built design over a tall figure for tallness's sake.

[CabooseBM]

I think it breaks the bounds of what I'm willing to believe. My suspension of disbelief runs deep, but when all the media from location art to films show things being built as if set to a specific height, characters like 08 Takanuva break the story for me. They just don't fit. Sauron, by the way, has, outside of the eye, never been shown as double the average height- he is big, but not unbelievably so. (I'm also a huge TF nerd and the massive size differences there make slightly more sense considering the altmodes, plus their worlds and ships are scaled to them, whereas it never felt that way for larger humanoid characters in prior constraction materials.)

Eeeeh, that really comes across as a bizarre idea, especially since you don't have a problem with Protectors and Masters being so disparately sized. We've already established in universe, from the outset that intelligent robot beings with elemental powers can be of vastly different sizes and proportions, so a dude or two who outsize the Toa a good bit aren't that out of place. Especially for big bad villain characters where fitting through the bathroom doors is sort of a writing non-issue. And it's a common, well-used design trope, and for good reason!

I mean, following that logic, the Masters/Toa don't fit in on Okoto/Mata-Nui, often being twice or three times the size of the denizens of said island. Onua looks like you could fit two protectors in his chest alone.

I guess, you do you, but I just don't get it.

[ToaDraco]

I greatly prefer having larger than life villains, it adds gravitas to their stature. I don't understand why having large characters would throw people off but to each his own I guess. The one case I would agree with is Takanuva, I loved his large form but it didn't make a whole lot of sense for a giant Toa, regardless of the "Karda Nui" effect.

[Clone 01354 Productions]

People have such a problem with size for villain? What about the fact that the Inika were, like, double the height of the Mata? No problem there, I guess.....But Makuta who stands taller than the standard Toa?! How dare they!

[Rayskull]

Ooooohhhh they should use Trans-smoke for a baddie :)

[Leewan]

People have such a problem with size for villain? What about the fact that the Inika were, like, double the height of the Mata? No problem there, I guess.....But Makuta who stands taller than the standard Toa?! How dare they!

The sets were bigger, but IIRC, in the story, they were supposed to be the same size as the (2002) Toa Nuva.

[Aanchir]

Not really directing this at you, but for everyone with that standpoint:

I don't see why large characters in the story is strange especially for villains. Giant villains are used more often than not. Just look at Megatron, Sauron, and even the Overlord from Ninjago who turned into a giant frikkin dragon. And for a more familiar example, even Makuta was fairly large in the movies.

Good guys, eh. Don't really care either way. Though I will admit it's nice to see a big dude every once in a while. Bulkhead and Grimlock from Transformers come to mind.

I don't know. To me it just adds something cool where you see a small good guy take down the big, massive villain. So, I'd love to see villains larger than the heroes.

Main villains, that is. The goons can be of an equal size to the good guys.

Giant villains are fine, but I think you can go overboard with it. A villain can be twelve inches tall if you want them to look super-duper-imposing, but they don't necessarily need to be. I think the 2003 Makuta set was a good example of how you can make a character look formidable without necessarily inflating their height to ridiculous levels. In a non-villainous example, so is Axonn — he was no taller than a Toa Inika, but still felt like a "titan" by comparison.

And I think it also kind of depends on what kind of role you want the villain in question to have. Sometimes making a villain twice the height of the heroes can even be counterproductive if you want to emphasize character traits other than the villain's brute strength. Look at Marvel Comics as an example. Galactus is huge because it is integral to his character. Loki, on the other hand, is NOT huge, and it would be a bit silly if he DID constantly tower over the other characters. His key character traits are being conniving and manipulative — making him a colossus wouldn't help to emphasize any of those traits.

The David vs. Goliath archetype is an extremely valuable storytelling tool, but there are consequences if you abuse it. The storyline can become repetitive. The size difference can begin to lose its dramatic impact if your heroes are regularly defeating villains three times their size — fans will no longer expect the larger villain to have the edge in a fight. And what's more, you don't want to be in a situation where fans expect all major villains to be huge, or else your hands will be tied if you ever want to introduce a major villain who isn't huge — fans will wonder why the villain looks so wimpy compared to previous threats the heroes have faced.

Your Ninjago example definitely has some merit, but keep in mind that the Overlord was a bit of an exception. Most major villain characters in the series (Samukai, Pythor, Lord Garmadon, Cyrus Borg, and even the Overlord before his final metamorphosis) were only slightly larger than the heroes at most. Bringing out the big guns is generally something that should be done sparingly.

Edited November 26, 2014 by Aanchir