JeanGreyForever Posted July 31 Posted July 31 1 hour ago, spiderfan2000 said: With how extraordinarily well Brand New Day is doing at the box office, I wouldn't be surprised if LEGO tried to come up with something to squeeze an extra set or two out of the movie. It beat Endgame in previews. Reading it's marked to make a billion from the opening weekend alone, which would make it the #1 movie of the year just from that opening weekend. For years now, people were saying BND would beat Doomsday which I can see happening. There was way more hype for Spider-Man than I've seen for Doomsday. No way Lego doesn't come back to this movie over and over for future sets. Definitely expecting Sadie Sink's character to get a minifig, considering she's become the breakout character. Punisher fans I feel sorry for, Lego won't break their rules for him or Deadpool no matter the box office. Quote
JeanGreyForever Posted July 31 Posted July 31 2 hours ago, Renny The Spaceman said: Hide contents Yeah, it's a fundamental failing of the genre, which is why the Raimi Spider-Man films outlast pretty much every other superhero film, they're a rare exception where the individuals being saved are actual people and action scenes are based around saving them rather than just fighting the bad guy. As for the Mutants, I think their stance as an allegory does just not hold up and it's odd when people act like it does. By it's premise it's saying some very nasty things about whatever group you like to imagine them as. Fans and many writers think Professor X and Magneto are stand ins for Malcom X and MLK but they were really based on two Israeli Prime Ministers and that kinda lays out the key issue. X and MLK were civilians who spoke for oppressed groups, the actual inspirations ran a massively powerful government with advanced weaponry. The former are people who's only power is their community and latter are able to nuke someone. The X-Men are far more akin to a geo-politically significant military than any marginalised group because that's sorta what they were made to represent so when you try cast them as a minority group it rubs against their inspirations. I wonder how that goes for an apolitical way to talk about this weird fact of the way this superhero team is written, I think I avoided saying anything actually political about anyone involved Spoiler The Raimi movies are still the gold standard for me. For many reasons, including the ones you listed. There was also a feeling of the setting really feeling like home to Spider-Man and a place where you truly believed he lived in. You could completely buy why all the NYC citizens look up to him as their personal hero, whereas for the MCU heroes, there's a big disconnect between them and the public. They rarely interact and you never really get the feeling they care about the average person. In those Raimi films, so many of the civilian characters are still so memorable and get cheered for during rewatches or re-releases. Chris Claremont, who was responsible from turning Magneto from a villain to anti-hero, was a major Zionist. He said, exactly what you said, that Magneto and Xavier were based off of two Israeli PMs with Magneto being based off an actual terrorist, Menachem Begin, who later became the PM. There's a reason too that when Claremont retconned Xavier and Magneto to have been old friends, they met in Israel. So that racial superiority element has been there since then. It was Stan Lee who claimed that Xavier and Magneto were based on MLK and Malcom X, which was typical of him since he often would reiterate what fans thought or said as fanservice. And because the X-Men debuted in the 60s with Civil Rights at their peak, it became an easy parallel to make. Stan Lee was never super involved in the X-Men anyway, his original plan being for Xavier and Magneto to be brothers (or so he says, that's not really evident in those early comics either. If Magneto was supposed to be Xavier's evil brother, that got repurposed into Juggernaut rather early on). The Krakoa era, which thankfully is over now, really didn't shy away from the idea of mutants being some ethnosupremacists who rule their own independent mutant nation and look down on all human beings. Everyone who is a mutant is automatically absolved of their crimes and allowed to live on the island nation freely, regardless of how many people they may have killed, raped, brainwashed, tortured, kidnapped, etc. over the decades. Simply possessing an X-gene is enough to be considered a good guy now. And they really show their distaste for humans when they try to abduct Franklin Richards from the Fantastic Four, the argument being that since he's a mutant, he belongs with his own kind and not with his human parents. So now the X-Men are depicted as child kidnappers as well. It got so bad that the Fantastic Four editorial team had to retcon Franklin to not be a mutant just to keep him safe from the clutches of the X-Men lol. Quote
spiderfan2000 Posted July 31 Posted July 31 If Punisher is off-limits, I'm trying to think of the remaining minifigures LEGO could could try doing, probably starting early 2028 if the timeline on NWH sets is any indication: Spoiler -Winter Gear Spider-Man (from the montage) -Peter Parker (I guess either the ESU look, or the crop top if they wanted to be funny) -MJ -Ned -Jean Grey -William Metzger -Smart Hulk (In an Epic Battle set?) -Jean DeWolff -Snow (Hand Leader) -Hand Ninjas -Ramrod (would complete the montage supervillain lineup) -DODC guards with tech batons/cannons (probably reusing the DODC driver torso) Quote
Scarilian Posted July 31 Posted July 31 (edited) Everyone they can get back for Secret Wars they will get back for Secret Wars. Worth repeating I think. It's gonna be complicated for Lego to cover a massive roster of characters for Secret Wars. I'm still expecting a delay to May 2028 for Secret Wars to give them more time. I think we'll need a CMF series at minimum to cover some of the characters and with it also being near to the 20th anniversary it's going to be a nightmare trying to juggle all those figures and sets. Hope everyone's wallets are prepared 46 minutes ago, JeanGreyForever said: No way Lego doesn't come back to this movie over and over for future sets. 11 minutes ago, spiderfan2000 said: I'm trying to think of the remaining minifigures LEGO could could try doing, probably starting early 2028 if the timeline on NWH sets is any indication: There's very little they can adapt in regards to figures. I'm tempted to think that this will be it for Spider-man: Brand New Day Lego sets. 2028 is already going to be packed as it is without a Spider-man Legacy set for Brand New Day. 3 hours ago, JeanGreyForever said: You said you can't expect the audience to care for characters like Wanda except all circumstances show otherwise. I liked previous Wanda, just not Phase 4 Wanda due to the writing. I was expressing concern over people not being as attached to the new character due to similar writing quality. Response to your remarks on Marvel's problems and potential explanations: Spoiler Phantom announcements, studio has no intent to make, announce to encourage viewership of main media. Sequel announced close to the release, cancellation announcements hidden under new releases: Moon Knight S2, Wonder Man S2 Legitimate projects that got destroyed because of the failure of associated media: Ms. Marvel S2 (The Marvels), Armor Wars (Iron Heart, Secret Invasion) Not marketing characters associated with negative ramifications on box office (Captain Marvel) Plot reasons/surprises (Additional Fox-Verse X-Men return OR presumed dead characters) Blade they never wanted to make a 'Blade kills vampires' movie and the changing media landscape impacted their decisions a lot. Here are some examples of what they were trying to do with the Blade movie and why they stopped: Stacy Osei-Kuffour's - A Blade & Black Knight team-up movie with modern day social commentary (Cancelled following Eternals & Morbius failures) Beau DeMayo's - A period father-daughter bonding film between Blade and his daughter examining the origin of the Ebony Blade featuring Dane Whitman. An action scene was planned involving a fight on a train. (DeMayo had concerns over racially motivated comments and left) Michael Starrbury's - Set in the 1920s and featured Lilith trying to obtain the blood of Blade's daughter (2023 Writers Strike and the creation of Sinners, decision to move away from a period piece) ? - A female ensemble movie featuring Blade relegated to the fourth lead figure and teaching life lessons to the audience (Failure of The Marvels/Ali saying he would quit) Michael Green - Simplified R-Rated movie of Blade set in a different time period just killing Vampires (Director left) Eric Pearson - Reworked Michael Green's Script to be more approachable for Directors and the setting was changed to present day but Feige rejected the idea of just having a simple Blade movie where he killed vampires. I imagine Wesley Snipes will be back for Secret Wars so maybe we'll get his Blade as a figure then. Maybe we'll get a new Blade for a Midnight Sons down the line. Shang Chi made the most of the 'original' Phase 4 films but didn't make enough for a sequel, they dismissed that as due to the world landscape, but are too worried about doing a sequel film so want to see how the audiences responds to him in an Avengers film. Originally he was going to have a sequel set between Avengers: Kang Dynasty and Avengers: Secret Wars. He may be out after Secret Wars as the actor seems frustrated at Marvel on social media. Edited July 31 by Scarilian Quote
JeanGreyForever Posted August 1 Posted August 1 14 minutes ago, Scarilian said: Everyone they can get back for Secret Wars they will get back for Secret Wars. Worth repeating I think. It's gonna be complicated for Lego to cover a massive roster of characters for Secret Wars. I'm still expecting a delay to May 2028 for Secret Wars to give them more time. I think we'll need a CMF series at minimum to cover some of the characters and with it also being near to the 20th anniversary it's going to be a nightmare trying to juggle all those figures and sets. Hope everyone's wallets are prepared There's very little they can adapt in regards to figures. I'm tempted to think that this will be it for Spider-man: Brand New Day Lego sets. 2028 is already going to be packed as it is without a Spider-man Legacy set for Brand New Day. I liked previous Wanda, just not Phase 4 Wanda due to the writing. I was expressing concern over people not being as attached to the new character due to similar writing quality. Response to your remarks on Marvel's problems and potential explanations: Reveal hidden contents Phantom announcements, studio has no intent to make, announce to encourage viewership of main media. Sequel announced close to the release, cancellation announcements hidden under new releases: Moon Knight S2, Wonder Man S2 Legitimate projects that got destroyed because of the failure of associated media: Ms. Marvel S2 (The Marvels), Armor Wars (Iron Heart, Secret Invasion) Not marketing characters associated with negative ramifications on box office (Captain Marvel) Plot reasons/surprises (Additional Fox-Verse X-Men return OR presumed dead characters) Blade they never wanted to make a 'Blade kills vampires' movie and the changing media landscape impacted their decisions a lot. Here are some examples of what they were trying to do with the Blade movie and why they stopped: Stacy Osei-Kuffour's - A Blade & Black Knight team-up movie with modern day social commentary (Cancelled following Eternals & Morbius failures) Beau DeMayo's - A period father-daughter bonding film between Blade and his daughter examining the origin of the Ebony Blade featuring Dane Whitman. An action scene was planned involving a fight on a train. (DeMayo had concerns over racially motivated comments and left) Michael Starrbury's - Set in the 1920s and featured Lilith trying to obtain the blood of Blade's daughter (2023 Writers Strike and the creation of Sinners, decision to move away from a period piece) ? - A female ensemble movie featuring Blade relegated to the fourth lead figure and teaching life lessons to the audience (Failure of The Marvels/Ali saying he would quit) Michael Green - Simplified R-Rated movie of Blade set in a different time period just killing Vampires (Director left) Eric Pearson - Reworked Michael Green's Script to be more approachable for Directors and the setting was changed to present day but Feige rejected the idea of just having a simple Blade movie where he killed vampires. I imagine Wesley Snipes will be back for Secret Wars so maybe we'll get his Blade as a figure then. Maybe we'll get a new Blade for a Midnight Sons down the line. Shang Chi made the most of the 'original' Phase 4 films but didn't make enough for a sequel, they dismissed that as due to the world landscape, but are too worried about doing a sequel film so want to see how the audiences responds to him in an Avengers film. Originally he was going to have a sequel set between Avengers: Kang Dynasty and Avengers: Secret Wars. He may be out after Secret Wars as the actor seems frustrated at Marvel on social media. Infinity War/Endgame were filmed back to back. I'm surprised that wasn't the case for Doomsday/SW. Alan Cumming said the script for Doomsday wasn't set in stone and they were changing the script every day during filming so wondering if Marvel is feeling a lot less secure this time around and that's why they're holding off on SW to see reactions to Doomsday first. In order to know what to change or what not to pursue. I think BND is going to be like Endgame, where they keep going back to it and keep remaking certain scenes or sets. Because themed to Spider-Man alone means it'll be a bestseller over any other set, like a FF set or a Thor set. And the number of viable heroes for the MCU is dwindling. Captain Marvel is basically over, GOTG is done, Ant-Man done, FF hasn't taken off, Thunderbolts not strong enough as a solo franchise, etc. The reason I disagree with you on Wanda is that she became a breakout A-list character starting with Phase 4. I've been her fan for many years from the comics, so I was excited when she first joined in AoU but I can't pretend she was a household name from AoU or Civil War. She got slightly more traction thanks to Infinity War but WandaVision is what pushed her into the mainstream and basically created her whole fanbase outside of just niche comic book fans. So while you couldn't connect to Wanda in WandaVision or MoM, everything shows that the overwhelming majority of the public connected with her starting with Phase 4 since that's when she took off as a character. And while there was criticism towards her villain arc in MoM, it didn't hurt the public's interest in the character since they're still clamoring for her, now more than ever, that she be treated better. So I don't think her "villainous" acts hurt her in the long run. In 2015, when she debuted in AoU, could you imagine a solo Scarlet Witch movie? It would be unthinkable. And now we have rumors that Marvel is considering going that route after so much fan hype and demand that they give Wanda a solo movie. Spoiler For Blade, I've heard similar to what you shared about how the movie had a lot of story issues since Marvel kept trying to turn it into a movie that focused on Blade's daughter with Blade basically tagging along as a mentor figure. Sorta similar to the last Indiana Jones movie where they were setting up the female co-lead as the future of the franchise, until the movie bombed. It's so ironic though that Sinners became such a huge box office hit, without being attached to any IP, while Marvel couldn't take off with Blade. Blade could have gained a lot of momentum after Sinners. From what I remember, Blade was characterized along with Punisher and Daredevil as one of those mature characters who we only got once because they got slipped into the Daily Bugle. And it seems like Lego has become even more stringent since then. So if Wesley Snipes in in SW, which I can see since his character is very popular, I don't think Lego would touch him. I didn't know the Shang-Chi actor was being vocal about his displeasure with Marvel but it makes sense since they left him hanging for so long. I know he was supposed to have a big role in Kang Dynasty whereas I doubt his role will be all that sizable in Doomsday. Shang-Chi's movie had a lot of goodwill, including from what I've seen of comments here, but he also seems to have been mostly forgotten since then. He didn't have much of a pop culture impact on the Asian community the way Black Panther did with the Black community. Captain Marvel in a similar trajectory where she didn't really take off with female audiences. They really had no idea how to write her or what to do with her. Wanda more or less ended up getting the acclaim and popularity that Marvel expected for Captain Marvel. Quote
psqidexslizer Posted August 1 Posted August 1 50 minutes ago, Scarilian said: Everyone they can get back for Secret Wars they will get back for Secret Wars. Worth repeating I think. It's gonna be complicated for Lego to cover a massive roster of characters for Secret Wars. I'm still expecting a delay to May 2028 for Secret Wars to give them more time. I think we'll need a CMF series at minimum to cover some of the characters and with it also being near to the 20th anniversary it's going to be a nightmare trying to juggle all those figures and sets. Hope everyone's wallets are prepared 20th anniversary won’t be an issue given Lego doesn’t celebrate anniversaries for the super hero theme… with the exception of Batman, obviously. Quote
Mandalorianknight Posted August 1 Posted August 1 Not entirely sure what's going on with the discussion about the wider marvel landscape here, but it has been heartening to see just on the internet as a whole that most people seem to agree Spoiler Jean was waaaayyy too evil here. I think if you wanted her to be sympathetic, you would need to: A. remove all the cartoonishly evil stuff like forcing civilians to kill themselves to mess with spidey or making spider-man and MJ kiss (which is assault) again just to torture him. The latter two points here I could potentially see people arguing, but this one's inarguable. She forces a random civilian to kill himself purely to psyche out spidey and doesn't ever even seem to regret this. She is an evil person. As I said earlier, if the DOT killed my dad and then I stabbed some random bodega employee, there's not even a connection, much less sympathy. I'd just be a murderer. Like Jean. B. Drastically tone down the scope and intent of her terrorist attacks and murder sprees. Don't have the tank massacring the NYPD, who are totally unconnected to her sister's experimenters. (seriously, it's not like those cop cars behind the tank were going to stop it, she's just shooting them because apparently this version of Jean is evil.) Don't have her intentionally hurt any civilians. Don't even have her blow up the DODC building (which she didn't need to do at all, she already got scorpion out) or otherwise intentionally kill random DODC employees, who in that first attack are directly shown by the movie to mostly be good people. And ESPECIALLY don't have her intentionally holding a bunch of innocent people hostage across a kilometer radius and threatening to kill them. You can still have her attack DODC facilities, unleash hulk because she's a reckless young adult who doesn't realize the casualties it could cause, and even accidentally pulse across that kilometer radius. But when you have her intentionally murdering random civilians, cops, etc, it makes that final scene of her on the bus less of an "aw, she got out" and more of a "this psycho mass murderer is on the loose". C. Holy cow, do not make her "tragic" "my sister was taken from me by the big bag DODC" flashback a justified takedown. The DODC experimenting on Sarah was wrong, and the movie should have just shown that. But by having her possessing people in the park for fun two seconds before she's caught just makes me think it's good they stopped her before she could violate the minds of anyone else. We're routinely shown in the movie that it's a traumatic event to have your mind taken over (which... yeah, duh), and she's out here doing it for fun. I've seen a few people saying "well, Loki did bad things too and he got redeemed" - Yeah. Over the course of multiple movies. After he WENT TO JAIL. And people routinely told him he was wrong. Peter here is absurdly forgiving and that "you're not a killer" line is downright bad writing. Peter. My guy. You've WATCHED HER KILL RANDOM CIVILIANS. Punisher was right. Set wise, the only one I could really see is a prison fight Epic Moment with Spider-Man and the Hand. I wish we could get punisher-the breakout star, and hope lego reconsiders now that he's had a major role in an extremely successful PG-13 film. I don't think parents would raise much of a stink. To that end, here's what I'd like to see, even if the second one isn't realistic- and it's all stuff we saw in the trailers, too: Epic Moment: Spider-Man versus the Hand ($34.99): BND Spidey (Unmasked, head has the black eyes on one side), Hand Ninja Leader, 2x Hand Ninja. Battle Van Blast ($29.99): Spider-Man, The Punisher, might as well throw in one of the villains from wave 1 just to fill out the figure selection. There's a function to launch Punisher from the driver's seat out through the back of the van. Quote
JeanGreyForever Posted August 1 Posted August 1 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mandalorianknight said: Not entirely sure what's going on with the discussion about the wider marvel landscape here, but it has been heartening to see just on the internet as a whole that most people seem to agree Hide contents Jean was waaaayyy too evil here. I think if you wanted her to be sympathetic, you would need to: A. remove all the cartoonishly evil stuff like forcing civilians to kill themselves to mess with spidey or making spider-man and MJ kiss (which is assault) again just to torture him. The latter two points here I could potentially see people arguing, but this one's inarguable. She forces a random civilian to kill himself purely to psyche out spidey and doesn't ever even seem to regret this. She is an evil person. As I said earlier, if the DOT killed my dad and then I stabbed some random bodega employee, there's not even a connection, much less sympathy. I'd just be a murderer. Like Jean. B. Drastically tone down the scope and intent of her terrorist attacks and murder sprees. Don't have the tank massacring the NYPD, who are totally unconnected to her sister's experimenters. (seriously, it's not like those cop cars behind the tank were going to stop it, she's just shooting them because apparently this version of Jean is evil.) Don't have her intentionally hurt any civilians. Don't even have her blow up the DODC building (which she didn't need to do at all, she already got scorpion out) or otherwise intentionally kill random DODC employees, who in that first attack are directly shown by the movie to mostly be good people. And ESPECIALLY don't have her intentionally holding a bunch of innocent people hostage across a kilometer radius and threatening to kill them. You can still have her attack DODC facilities, unleash hulk because she's a reckless young adult who doesn't realize the casualties it could cause, and even accidentally pulse across that kilometer radius. But when you have her intentionally murdering random civilians, cops, etc, it makes that final scene of her on the bus less of an "aw, she got out" and more of a "this psycho mass murderer is on the loose". C. Holy cow, do not make her "tragic" "my sister was taken from me by the big bag DODC" flashback a justified takedown. The DODC experimenting on Sarah was wrong, and the movie should have just shown that. But by having her possessing people in the park for fun two seconds before she's caught just makes me think it's good they stopped her before she could violate the minds of anyone else. We're routinely shown in the movie that it's a traumatic event to have your mind taken over (which... yeah, duh), and she's out here doing it for fun. I've seen a few people saying "well, Loki did bad things too and he got redeemed" - Yeah. Over the course of multiple movies. After he WENT TO JAIL. And people routinely told him he was wrong. Peter here is absurdly forgiving and that "you're not a killer" line is downright bad writing. Peter. My guy. You've WATCHED HER KILL RANDOM CIVILIANS. Punisher was right. Lol, this is another case where you and I must have very different social media algorithms because I have not seen anything you've been seeing. Quite the opposite really. Spoiler I don't know why you keep repeating that she's going around massacring everyone left and right. She doesn't kill anyone in the movie. Peter even says she's not a killer which canonizes the fact that no one has died. That line was directly included for viewers like you to make you understand that no one is dead. For example, when she gets Punisher to shoot those guards in the knees instead of a more fatal area. Also lol calling her a terrorist. People use that word too freely while conveniently ignoring politicians and countries that literally do terrorize the rest of the world on a daily basis and are rounding up citizens and placing them in concentration camps or trafficking them as part of an Epstein connected network where they're never heard from ever again. But sure, make Jean the "terrorist" if that floats your boat. A teenage girl whose mother abandoned her and her sister and who had to experience her sister's death from an evil government agency that wants to weaponize her powers and lock up all mutants to be neutralized. It's never the government that's the bad guy after all. I like John Walker but that man literally killed someone in a brutal manner in public and on live TV and many here are some of his biggest fans and have constantly defended him for "protecting his country against a terrorist." There's that t-word again. I can still like John despite disagreeing with what he did there, so I think it's interesting that many here cannot extend that same level of sympathy or understanding for literally any female characters. That's what sticks out most to me and how it's only the female characters who get this vicious treatment, as evident by the last few pages of discussion. John Walker is a saint and misunderstood. A proud patriot who did no wrong. Wanda is a devil and selfish. She deserves to be put down or locked up. Loving your kids and protecting them makes you an evil witch. Jean is a murderess and terrorist. Throw her away, we don't want to see her ever again. But Deadpool and Punisher and all those rated-R men known for their violence, blood and gore, and whose whole appeal is literally killing, they're the real heroes. I wonder what they possess that Wanda and Jean don't....hmmmm. It's literally canonized by multiple authority figures that Doctor Strange is a worse threat to the multiverse than Wanda ever will be, fully corroborated by the fact that every version of Strange we've met turns out to be a villain. 616 Strange becomes corrupted by the end of MoM, as evident by the third eye, but Wanda, who only has two variants that we've seen and one of them is literally just a mother, is the more evil character as a whole somehow. Wanda is evil and irredeemable for using the Darkhold and dreamcasting, unlike Strange who lectures her on this, then promptly decides to do the same exact same thing while fully knowing the consequences. And I'm supposed to think he's any better? Especially when we're given multiple case examples (3 in MoM alone) about what's inevitable for every Doctor Strange? Tony Stark was literally a war profiteer, making his entire fortune on weapons of mass destruction. He's allowed a redemption arc after he realizes what he's been complicit in and nobody thinks twice about questioning if he deserves it or not, despite the countless lives that must have died from what he funded and made. Thor literally advocates for the entire destruction of the Frost Giants, the species of his own brother, and he's never blamed for that. The same Thor who is an immortal god that existed for thousands of years and should know better as the heir to the Asgardian throne, is given more leeway than a human/mutant teenage girl who has lost her entire family. Punisher is right, when he's literally the symbol of vigilantism, but Jean is wrong? Good to know. Yes, Loki goes to jail for the span of not even one movie since by the beginning of Thor: The Dark World, Thor has already broken him out and they're working together. Loki, who conducted an alien invasion of NYC and we saw and heard about all the human casualties over the years, but he's allowed to roam free despite engineering that event and become a hero so why does he merit special treatment when Jean doesn't? Particularly when he's not some impressionable youth but a god who has lived for eons? What makes him suitable for grace over Jean? Just very glad that most reviews and viewers are not seeing it your way. I'm seeing almost unanimous praise for Jean and her part in the third act of the movie, particularly her relationship with Peter and the strength of their bond. How this is more a Jean origin movie than it even is a Spider-Man movie. And considering the critical acclaim and that this movie is set to make almost a billion on its opening weekend, beating Endgame, that tells me that audiences are lapping this up. They aren't rejecting the movie or Jean's character because they have connected with her. She resonates with them as Peter resonates with them. They're the faces of the MCU for the next wave of movies and I for one very much look forward to seeing Peter and Jean as two leads of Secret Wars, plus seeing the inevitable first meeting between Jean and Wanda since I know some heads will explode when not one, but two fiercely powerful and indomitable women meet. The incels can keep Sue Storm whose only role in these movies seems to be to constantly give birth like she's some brood mare. She's the kind of femininity that's deemed safe since it's packaged in a 1950s family-friendly aesthetic. Lastly, I just want to mention that her name is Jean GREY. She is a grey character and meant to be. She is not supposed to be some simpering damsel or devoted wife whose only existence is to cater to a man and make him feel comfortable. And if male characters can regularly be morally grey and anti-heroes or outright villains, like Wolverine, Punisher, Ghost Rider, Namor, Venom, Carnage, Magneto, Loki, Gambit, Winter Soldier, etc. and be applauded and beloved, then I see no reason why female characters can't be given the same courtesy. But then again, Captain Marvel, who literally hasn't done anything problematic or offensive, gets so much hate just for existing. Oh and for that one deleted scene when she asks a man to smile after he tells her to smile. I forgot, she was a bully and a man-hater for that. I won't even get started on Insomniac's MJ who gets hated just because of how she looks or because Insomniac had the temerity to make their playerbase do a couple of missions with *GASP* a female character! Black Widow (a character I've never cared for, just to make clear that she's not a favorite of mine and I've never liked her actress, but I can remain objective about her) was a monster for her past but Hawkeye, who had a very similar past and as much red in his ledger, gets to be a family man with a happy ending and never gets called out for his actions. Despite spending the events of Endgame killing random people because he lost his family, even though those people had nothing to do with the Snap. He's always perceived as a hero but Wanda, who similarly acted out for losing her family, gets vilified and killed off. For a little perspective, I want to share an anecdote from a Chinese friend of mine. They were telling me that on social media, Chinese audiences are loving Jean and her portrayal. How, every so often, there might be one dissenter who criticizes her actions as too extreme, but then they're immediately ganged up on by everyone else who are quick to note that pretty much all superheroes are terrorists (that t-word again lol although maybe it's more appropriate here) and there's no shortage of murderous superheroes out there that people love and go crazy over, so why should Jean be any different. Also how Wanda is the other most beloved female superhero in China outside of Jean. Asian audiences have always had more respect for women's agencies than western audiences, imo, and they also understand redemption arcs better so it makes sense to me why Jean and Wanda would be culturally acceptable there. But based on the love and praise I've seen Wanda get since Phase 4, where she became an overnight A-Lister and now one of Marvel's most profitable characters, and what I'm now seeing about Sadie Sink's Jean in BND, I believe this is true for western audiences as well, thankfully, since both of these characters are globally beloved. Hence why I can have this conversation with international fans and learn about the Chinese perspective on them. The vast majority of the world loves both and rightfully so. That's not to say anyone can't or shouldn't dislike them for whatever reason, but we should keep a little perspective if we find that we have no issues with John Walker, Punisher, Doctor Strange, Loki, Tony Stark, Hawkeye, or whoever but don't feel that way towards Wanda or Jean or Carol or MJ or whichever female character is under attack next for simply existing. 8 hours ago, spiderfan2000 said: If Punisher is off-limits, I'm trying to think of the remaining minifigures LEGO could could try doing, probably starting early 2028 if the timeline on NWH sets is any indication: Hide contents -Hand Ninjas I'm still curious about if they're allowed to be depicted by Lego or not. Some have said they're too closely linked to Daredevil which might be why Lego is avoiding them. Edited August 1 by JeanGreyForever Quote
BoyLego Posted August 1 Posted August 1 37 minutes ago, JeanGreyForever said: Lol, this is another case where you and I must have very different social media algorithms because I have not seen anything you've been seeing. Quite the opposite really. 'I saw lots of people on the internet agree with me' really doesn't hold up as an argument when we are all existing in these algorithmically curated echo chambers online. Quote
BrickBob Studpants Posted August 1 Posted August 1 Spoiler I’m also not sure if Jean actually kills anyone in the movie. The closest she gets is walking the construction worker into traffic, but I suppose he survived I was more surprised Spidey didn’t check up on the poor guy, but I guess he had to hurry to catch up with Jean. She was more villainous than I expected, but at least nobody died, and she is supposed to be highly unstable, what with the phoenix force and all that, which they will sure get into in the Mutant Saga. Wanda however has become a clear villain in MoM. She ruthlessly kills innocent witches and wizards that are just protecting America from her and then there’s her vicious murder of the Illuminati. You can argue about their moral status, but even if they were outright monsters, no good person dispatches their enemies in such a brutal manner. And as for John Walker, he killed an unarmed man pleading for his life. The guy wasn’t innocent of course, but he posed no immediate threat in that moment, and Cap is supposed to be a symbol. In my eyes, he rightfully lost the position of Cap for publicly losing his temper and killing someone for petty revenge And in the beginning of Thunderbolts, he tries to kill his future team mates just because his clearly dubious boss told him to, not questioning her motives in the slightest. Granted, this goes for Ghost, Yelena, and Taakmaster too More like Thunderdolts, amirite? Also, can Doom please kill Allegra? I hate that she keeps getting away scot-free. I like all three characters, but I don’t justify any of their actions. Quote
Renny The Spaceman Posted August 1 Posted August 1 8 hours ago, JeanGreyForever said: Hide contents The Raimi movies are still the gold standard for me. For many reasons, including the ones you listed. There was also a feeling of the setting really feeling like home to Spider-Man and a place where you truly believed he lived in. You could completely buy why all the NYC citizens look up to him as their personal hero, whereas for the MCU heroes, there's a big disconnect between them and the public. They rarely interact and you never really get the feeling they care about the average person. In those Raimi films, so many of the civilian characters are still so memorable and get cheered for during rewatches or re-releases. Chris Claremont, who was responsible from turning Magneto from a villain to anti-hero, was a major Zionist. He said, exactly what you said, that Magneto and Xavier were based off of two Israeli PMs with Magneto being based off an actual terrorist, Menachem Begin, who later became the PM. There's a reason too that when Claremont retconned Xavier and Magneto to have been old friends, they met in Israel. So that racial superiority element has been there since then. It was Stan Lee who claimed that Xavier and Magneto were based on MLK and Malcom X, which was typical of him since he often would reiterate what fans thought or said as fanservice. And because the X-Men debuted in the 60s with Civil Rights at their peak, it became an easy parallel to make. Stan Lee was never super involved in the X-Men anyway, his original plan being for Xavier and Magneto to be brothers (or so he says, that's not really evident in those early comics either. If Magneto was supposed to be Xavier's evil brother, that got repurposed into Juggernaut rather early on). The Krakoa era, which thankfully is over now, really didn't shy away from the idea of mutants being some ethnosupremacists who rule their own independent mutant nation and look down on all human beings. Everyone who is a mutant is automatically absolved of their crimes and allowed to live on the island nation freely, regardless of how many people they may have killed, raped, brainwashed, tortured, kidnapped, etc. over the decades. Simply possessing an X-gene is enough to be considered a good guy now. And they really show their distaste for humans when they try to abduct Franklin Richards from the Fantastic Four, the argument being that since he's a mutant, he belongs with his own kind and not with his human parents. So now the X-Men are depicted as child kidnappers as well. It got so bad that the Fantastic Four editorial team had to retcon Franklin to not be a mutant just to keep him safe from the clutches of the X-Men lol. Spoiler Yeah, I think such a clear sign of the difference is how Jameson is written. In the Raimi films he's funny because you've got him bouncing off 4 different civilian characters who all have defined personalities so they make fully formed comedic setpiece. In No Way Home he just says he doesn't like Spider-Man and that's the bit. Everything exclusively rotates around the people in spandex until you get to the point these films are at now where this is a film about Spider-man and an X-Man just not really caring about who gets in the way of Jean's personal vendetta. Once again, it's very Moore esq in the way writing heroes like this does wind up saying some ugly things about the genre. And yeah, the Krakoa stuff was all the ugly stuff about the X-Men on blast so it's funny how many fans defended it because "mutants are an allegory for the oppressed" when it's such an ugly look at the eugenics that are ultimately, accidentally, kinda core to the X-Men under certain writers. Cyclops goes on a rant about it to a reporter in the cartoon but a good few of these stories really aren't saying the Mutants are equal, they're saying they're better more often than not. And they're better because of a gene that makes them more powerful and part of a clique which means they never face consequences for anything done to the mud people. All of this comes from fans and writers trying to take characters who were made for an allegory of politicians and change them into representing civil rights leaders. Those are two very different types of movement. This is where I'm gonna stop as it's hard to go further apolitically but all this does call to mind that Alan Moore quote about what the first superhero movie was. I don't think it's inherent to the genre but it's this white noise that comes in if you're writing thinking about superheroes through who they fight rather than who they save. Quote
JeanGreyForever Posted August 1 Posted August 1 24 minutes ago, BoyLego said: 'I saw lots of people on the internet agree with me' really doesn't hold up as an argument when we are all existing in these algorithmically curated echo chambers online. I saw that firsthand with the discourse on the Gambit casting. In the X-Men fandom, Channing Tatum was always an unpopular choice for years since he was first attached to a Gambit solo film. So naturally, my social media timeline during the Endgame trailer was all about how miscast he is and how he lacks Remy's svelte physique and how he looks so bloated in the costume. I think a lot of social media is also very gendered, depending on the algorithm. The X-Men fandom leans heavily female and LGBTQIA-oriented. So most of what I'm seeing is from women and gay men who thirst over Gambit and could not thirst over Channing's casting. 25 minutes ago, BrickBob Studpants said: Hide contents I’m also not sure if Jean actually kills anyone in the movie. The closest she gets is walking the construction worker into traffic, but I suppose he survived I was more surprised Spidey didn’t check up on the poor guy, but I guess he had to hurry to catch up with Jean. She was more villainous than I expected, but at least nobody died, and she is supposed to be highly unstable, what with the phoenix force and all that, which they will sure get into in the Mutant Saga. Wanda however has become a clear villain in MoM. She ruthlessly kills innocent witches and wizards that are just protecting America from her and then there’s her vicious murder of the Illuminati. You can argue about their moral status, but even if they were outright monsters, no good person dispatches their enemies in such a brutal manner. And as for John Walker, he killed an unarmed man pleading for his life. The guy wasn’t innocent of course, but he posed no immediate threat in that moment, and Cap is supposed to be a symbol. In my eyes, he rightfully lost the position of Cap for publicly losing his temper and killing someone for petty revenge And in the beginning of Thunderbolts, he tries to kill his future team mates just because his clearly dubious boss told him to, not questioning her motives in the slightest. Granted, this goes for Ghost, Yelena, and Taakmaster too More like Thunderdolts, amirite? Also, can Doom please kill Allegra? I hate that she keeps getting away scot-free. I like all three characters, but I don’t justify any of their actions. Were the Illuminati supposed to be viewed as morally ambiguous? I never got that impression myself. Not on a team with Reed, Charles, Peggy, Maria, Black Bolt, etc. where the worst things that could be said are that Reed, Charles, and Black Bolt are very old-fashioned paternalistic characters from the comics (and Reed in all his movie depictions is always heavily toned down). Agreed. I like John but he relinquished the right to be Captain America when he brutally executed an unarmed man on national television. No amount of PR can make that look good. Sam Cap is frankly boring but at least he has the moral compass to take on the mantle. There's a reason Bucky wasn't offered it. He has way too much red in his ledger and Steve knew that even though Bucky was equally important to him as Sam. The whole appeal of the Thunderbolts is that all these characters are extremely messed up from all the bad things they've done and the bad things done to them. Bob is the only innocent one lol and he's one personality shift away from snapping and ending the world. The emotional link between Yelena and Bob was the heartbeat of that movie, very similar to the new dynamic in BND. I hated Allegra in F&TWS. Found her so extremely annoying and kept waiting for her to be offed by Mel or anyone in the Thunderbolts, wondering when she's gonna bite the dust. Ironically, by the very end of the film, I got so caught up in how she was constantly able to spin the situation to save her own life and come out on top that I started halfway rooting for her to survive just to see how much longer she can keep this up, while simultaneously betraying everyone. It's a running gag at this point that everybody hates her and wants her dead but somehow she keeps coming up on top. Quote
hvader Posted August 1 Posted August 1 Spoilers for BND below: Spoiler Can we please get a Jean Grey minifig? I assume if we don’t get her in Secret Wars we’ll get her in X-Men. Good news is the wait won’t be too long. Quote
JeanGreyForever Posted August 1 Posted August 1 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Renny The Spaceman said: Quote Hide contents Yeah, I think such a clear sign of the difference is how Jameson is written. In the Raimi films he's funny because you've got him bouncing off 4 different civilian characters who all have defined personalities so they make fully formed comedic setpiece. In No Way Home he just says he doesn't like Spider-Man and that's the bit. Everything exclusively rotates around the people in spandex until you get to the point these films are at now where this is a film about Spider-man and an X-Man just not really caring about who gets in the way of Jean's personal vendetta. Once again, it's very Moore esq in the way writing heroes like this does wind up saying some ugly things about the genre. And yeah, the Krakoa stuff was all the ugly stuff about the X-Men on blast so it's funny how many fans defended it because "mutants are an allegory for the oppressed" when it's such an ugly look at the eugenics that are ultimately, accidentally, kinda core to the X-Men under certain writers. Cyclops goes on a rant about it to a reporter in the cartoon but a good few of these stories really aren't saying the Mutants are equal, they're saying they're better more often than not. And they're better because of a gene that makes them more powerful and part of a clique which means they never face consequences for anything done to the mud people. All of this comes from fans and writers trying to take characters who were made for an allegory of politicians and change them into representing civil rights leaders. Those are two very different types of movement. This is where I'm gonna stop as it's hard to go further apolitically but all this does call to mind that Alan Moore quote about what the first superhero movie was. I don't think it's inherent to the genre but it's this white noise that comes in if you're writing thinking about superheroes through who they fight rather than who they save. Spoiler As a recurring supporting character, they did a really good job fleshing out J. Jonah Jameson in the Raimi movies. Particularly the little hints and implications that he's more jealous of Spider-Man than anything else and may secretly admire him, even if he can't admit it to himself. Like him keeping Spider-Man's discarded costume for himself instead of discarding it or selling it. Like you said, in NWH, he's just there for the joke of it and not really given any depth. The civilians in the Raimi movies felt like real personalities and people you'd know, whereas there's no such presence in the MCU movies. The NYC they live in doesn't feel lived in or real. I had this issue with the new Superman movie, which I did enjoy, but also felt it didn't have any real interest in Clark Kent's civilian life and outside of Lois, the Daily Planet characters basically had nothing to do. The Christopher Reeve movies were much more balanced and really made you feel like Clark Kent and his friends were as relevant as Superman and his villains. X-Men fans were very defensive of Krakoa for some reason. I had a discussion with a fan who was a racial minority and he got offended by my critique of Krakoa, feeling it was an attack on him and his race. How this meant I didn't feel minorities deserve a safe space or the right to power to protect themselves. I realized there's no getting out of that conversation without being branded a bigot so it's better to let him have this win and concede. But when your protagonists are kidnapping children and separating families because they should be with the "right people," the "genetically superior folks," you just know that's indefensible. And what made me laugh most was that X-Men fans were attacking the Fantastic Four, calling them racists and saying Sue is a Karen who hates mutants with all her gut, because she didn't want her son forcibly separated from her on an island featuring power hungry tyrants like Apocalypse, Mr. Sinister, Magneto, Mystique, etc. And the idea that X-Men like Storm, Jean, Wolverine, Beast, Rogue, Nightcrawler, Iceman, etc. would view those villains as closer allies and more trustworthy than the FF or the Avengers or Spider-Man, simply because of their genetic composition, is when you know they've lost the plot and any semblance of morality. This is the same story where one of the X-Men's most staunch human allies, Moira MacTaggert, was retconned into a mutant who wants to wipe out all mutants and wears the skin of her boyfriend Banshee after she kills him. That's also why I like the FoX-Men portrayal of Magneto, at least in the original trilogy played by Ian McKellen. He's evil and he knows it and doesn't pretend otherwise. He claims to believe in mutant supremacy but he doesn't hide that even in terms of mutants, he views himself as better than all the rest. His line to Pyro in The Last Stand about how the lower-level mutants are pawns that are expendable in his war against humans. Wolverine calling him out as a hypocrite that he's willing to sacrifice Rogue for the mutant cause rather than sacrifice himself. The way he turns on Mystique the second she's turned into a human because she's no longer of any use to him. His hubris into thinking he can control Jean as his ultimate weapon when she vaporized his best friend and her father figure and she has no such emotional attachment to Magneto, her formerly sworn enemy. Good point about Alan Moore and that movie. He had issues with Marvel as well, particularly when Chris Claremont tried to use Moore's work on Captain Britain in X-Men. Edited August 1 by JeanGreyForever Quote
BrickBob Studpants Posted August 1 Posted August 1 11 hours ago, JeanGreyForever said: It's a running gag at this point that everybody hates her and wants her dead but somehow she keeps coming up on top. I’m gonna laugh like a madman in the theatre if she shows up in Doomsday and Doom immediately snaps her neck or something before she can talk her way out ot that one The only other MCU character I hate on a similar level is Namor, who luckily does show up! I’ll root for Doom if he slimes that stupid cruel would-be Hermes. As you can tell, I’m not a fan of evil characters not getting any sort of comeuppance Quote
Lego Nostalgia Posted August 1 Posted August 1 Is Punisher banned forever or could we get him again in another D2C spidey modular ? Quote
Sinistereo Posted August 2 Posted August 2 On 7/31/2026 at 8:32 AM, Scarilian said: Saw Spider-man: Brand New Day, visuals were nice, writing was a disaster. I don't think I'll ever rewatch it and I'm fine with the sets we have now other than still wanting Punisher. The vehicle is based on the tank chase scene, they are probably referring to the figures included. Reveal hidden contents Yeah, Jean was extremely unlikeable in this film. Her flashback shows her hobby is going to a park with her sister and controlling people against their will. We never learn anything else about her and we never see the sister again so we don't really experience the cruelty of the DodC despite them torturing Jean. She was abandoned by their mother when their powers appeared but that was likely when she saw them taking over people stripping them of bodily autonomy as they puppet them around with no remorse and realised how evil they are. They could have lived entirely normal lives but they chose to use their powers to strip people of their autonomy in public with no care for what it does to those people and that resulted in the DodC finding them. Sure Jean is on a mission to find her sister, but she's controlling old women to drive tanks into occupied cars and buildings with the goal of blowing up the tank (While the old woman would have been inside) which she does presumably killing a bunch of civilians. Throwing people off buildings either to mess with Spider-man (The guard) or to actually try and kill them (MJ) who she also uses her body against her will to kiss Spider-man just to mess with him. She controls a guy into traffic and gets him killed. She threatens to murder everyone in the entire city. She controls people to shoot others killing them. Her rampage through the DodC building presumably killed countless people. Then the film has the audacity to have Peter claim she's not a murderer during the finale and she gets away with everything never facing any criticism for her actions It's WandaVision all over again with Wanda controlling/abusing/killing and then never getting consequences with others telling her she's a good person simply because she suffered a loss. You can't have these characters act this way and then expect the audience to care for them in future, for me it's made me never want Jean to appear again which is depressing as she's rumored to be in Secret Wars. I don't want a figure of Jean Grey now. This isn't how you introduce a character you intend to be a hero in future, this is the sort of horrific stuff she'd be doing in a grounded Dark Pheonix movie which has already been told before in X-Men: The Last Stand. Yeah, hopefully we'll never see them again after 1HY 2027 and if we are very lucky we'll never see them in Marvel sets. I pray the Pokemon theme can escape them also. Set/Movie villains discussion: Reveal hidden contents There are claims that the opening montage villains was originally longer featuring more antagonists, with the most likely being Shocker given his gauntlet is redesigned slightly and appears later (Claims of Rhino are false led by someone viewing a car pushing/flipping device on set) It's also heavily believed that Tarantula and Boomerang would reprise their roles, Tombstone especially because there was a heavy focus on the practicality and movement of his suit allowing the actor to remove and throw the Boomerangs from the suit so there was probably a proper fight scene cut. We know Tombstone filmed an extra scene that never appeared in the movie and we've got a remark about some villain scenes being cut but we don't know which. I think it was very disappointing that the villains, even Hulk, appeared so briefly and contributed so little to the story. Scorpion was primarily used as a joke or an extension of Jean's powers and not having his mask was dumb (Blocking gunshots with his tail was silly) It makes sense Lego would have adapted them, given they were featured in marketing and merchandising a lot, similarly makes sense to exclude the Hand because it would have just been a red Ninja. Jean doesn't have an iconic look in the movie so again makes sense to skip with her believed to be returning in Secret Wars and presumably X-Men in 2028 (?) It just irks me when people online say the set isn't based on what we saw in the trailers (and now that I've seen the movie, the scene in the movie too). I do think it's funny that the Spider-Man vs Hulk set isn't as accurate as we all thought too Quote
calebcold3 Posted August 2 Posted August 2 (edited) BND was pretty good! I'll have to watch it again to fully grasp it, as there was A LOT in the movie, but it was a fun movie! As for the sets, I thought the Prison Chase was a solid set, even if the coloring of the tank was inaccurate, it's still a solid set with good figures and I'm happy with only having that set as my BND Rep in the collection. Spoiler The Spider-Man VS Hulk set was (somewhat) accurate, but I really don't know why they gave us Boomerang and Tarantula Minifigures when they have blink and you miss it appearances that were already in the trailers. Spoiler I would've replaced Tarantula with Scorpion in the Prison Chase set, and in the Spider-Man VS Hulk set, I would've delayed the set a few months (given how Jean was a hidden spoiler), and replace Tarantula, Scorpion, Boomerang, and the Hot Dog Vendor with Jean Grey, Frank (in civilian clothes with a gun, even though that would be inaccurate, it would be less controversial for LEGO than them having Punisher in his uniform as a Minifigure), Bill Metzger, and a Repeat of the DODC Guard from the Prison Chase Set. Spoiler I could 100% see LEGO Next Summer making an Epic Moment set where it's Spidey VS The Hand. Edited August 2 by calebcold3 Quote
BrickBob Studpants Posted August 2 Posted August 2 @calebcold3: The movie hasn’t been out for 2 weeks yet, so if I were you, I’d censor certain names in your post Quote
calebcold3 Posted August 2 Posted August 2 (edited) 45 minutes ago, BrickBob Studpants said: @calebcold3: The movie hasn’t been out for 2 weeks yet, so if I were you, I’d censor certain names in your post OH! Thank You for the reminder! :) I'm so used to not having to hide spoilers, but yeah, hiding certain names would be a good idea. Edited August 2 by calebcold3 Quote
Mandalorianknight Posted August 2 Posted August 2 22 hours ago, BrickBob Studpants said: Reveal hidden contents I’m also not sure if Jean actually kills anyone in the movie. The closest she gets is walking the construction worker into traffic, but I suppose he survived I was more surprised Spidey didn’t check up on the poor guy, but I guess he had to hurry to catch up with Jean. She was more villainous than I expected, but at least nobody died, and she is supposed to be highly unstable, what with the phoenix force and all that, which they will sure get into in the Mutant Saga. Wanda however has become a clear villain in MoM. She ruthlessly kills innocent witches and wizards that are just protecting America from her and then there’s her vicious murder of the Illuminati. You can argue about their moral status, but even if they were outright monsters, no good person dispatches their enemies in such a brutal manner. And as for John Walker, he killed an unarmed man pleading for his life. The guy wasn’t innocent of course, but he posed no immediate threat in that moment, and Cap is supposed to be a symbol. In my eyes, he rightfully lost the position of Cap for publicly losing his temper and killing someone for petty revenge And in the beginning of Thunderbolts, he tries to kill his future team mates just because his clearly dubious boss told him to, not questioning her motives in the slightest. Granted, this goes for Ghost, Yelena, and Taakmaster too More like Thunderdolts, amirite? Also, can Doom please kill Allegra? I hate that she keeps getting away scot-free. I like all three characters, but I don’t justify any of their actions. Spoiler I feel like taking spidey's "you're not a killer" line as canonical proof she's never killed anyone when we see her do so is a bit of a "don't believe your lying eyes" thing. (I think it's much more likely he's just trying to talk her down, because if nothing else how would he even know whether or not most of these people survived?) You could handwave some things- maybe nobody dies in the hulk rampage, or scorpion attack where he throws a large burning object at two cops that explodes upon impact, or when she blows up a DODC prison that in no way had time to evacuate the detainees, but we do see her do things that 100% killed people onscreen, and not even people who were remotely bad or connected to her sister's capture or even the DODC as a whole. In the opening tank chase she's blowing up police cars. There are multiple shots in which the tank hits police cars and they explode, fire bursting out the windows. Those men and women are dead. Similarly, that guy who she forces to walk into a busy NYC street and promptly gets hit full-on by a speeding car is dead. And in neither case is killing those people helpful to her mission. What are the cop cars behind the tank going to do, pit-check it? The guy she walks into traffic doesn't give her any benefit either- I guess it shocks spider-man for a second but she also straight up waves to show him which mind she's in a second later. Not to mention all the random innocent people she severely injured or possessed. Or stuff like making MJ's body kiss peter and then revealing it was really her, which, like forcing that civilian to kill himself, is just kind of evil and isn't even hurting the DODC- not that it would make telepathic assault of that nature or forcing civilians to kill/harm themselves understandable. Wanda is definitely the worst of the three by far and it's not even close. There are a number of actual full-on villains in the MCU who are less evil and kill fewer innocents for more sympathetic reasons than her massacre of heroes, sorcerers, and innocents to... steal children from a variant of herself. I've gone into the specifics on this before and won't retread the stuff about whether or not the kill is legally justified, but while it was a character failure for John as Cap- he killed out of anger at his friend's murder and not the necessity to bring justice- you have to admit it's not anywhere near the level of the other two. Even in the worst case, where it's a punisher-style kill, it's- well, a Punisher move against one bad guy, not a Cap move, but not the same thing as mass murder, hurting and killing innocent people, multiversal child-kidnapping, etc. He also does get immediately beaten up by two heroes, loses the shield, and is stripped of his rank following that- he pays for it dearly. (Not to say that wanda doesn't in MOM) I've never heard anyone refer to her just as Allegra before and had to look her up, but yeah I imagine Valentina will eventually pay for her crimes. At the end of Thunderbolts it's implied she's essentially lost all power and is now just being used as a mouthpiece by Yelena and the team, but between her, Bucky, John, and Alexi, giver of the most menacing "hi" wave of all time, I would imagine she's now in prison and there's a good chance we'll hear as such in doomsday. 9 hours ago, Lego Nostalgia said: Is Punisher banned forever or could we get him again in another D2C spidey modular ? We just don't know. I would say if anything his appearance in spider-man should have tipped the scales towards making it MORE likely we could get the figure, but evidently lego doesn't feel the same way. 6 hours ago, Sinistereo said: It just irks me when people online say the set isn't based on what we saw in the trailers (and now that I've seen the movie, the scene in the movie too). I do think it's funny that the Spider-Man vs Hulk set isn't as accurate as we all thought too Yeah, the building is not a good representation of the one in the film. The architecture could have been a lot more interesting. With how much the Hand were in the marketing it's somewhat surprising they didn't get a set. Quote
Renny The Spaceman Posted August 2 Posted August 2 22 hours ago, JeanGreyForever said: Hide contents As a recurring supporting character, they did a really good job fleshing out J. Jonah Jameson in the Raimi movies. Particularly the little hints and implications that he's more jealous of Spider-Man than anything else and may secretly admire him, even if he can't admit it to himself. Like him keeping Spider-Man's discarded costume for himself instead of discarding it or selling it. Like you said, in NWH, he's just there for the joke of it and not really given any depth. The civilians in the Raimi movies felt like real personalities and people you'd know, whereas there's no such presence in the MCU movies. The NYC they live in doesn't feel lived in or real. I had this issue with the new Superman movie, which I did enjoy, but also felt it didn't have any real interest in Clark Kent's civilian life and outside of Lois, the Daily Planet characters basically had nothing to do. The Christopher Reeve movies were much more balanced and really made you feel like Clark Kent and his friends were as relevant as Superman and his villains. X-Men fans were very defensive of Krakoa for some reason. I had a discussion with a fan who was a racial minority and he got offended by my critique of Krakoa, feeling it was an attack on him and his race. How this meant I didn't feel minorities deserve a safe space or the right to power to protect themselves. I realized there's no getting out of that conversation without being branded a bigot so it's better to let him have this win and concede. But when your protagonists are kidnapping children and separating families because they should be with the "right people," the "genetically superior folks," you just know that's indefensible. And what made me laugh most was that X-Men fans were attacking the Fantastic Four, calling them racists and saying Sue is a Karen who hates mutants with all her gut, because she didn't want her son forcibly separated from her on an island featuring power hungry tyrants like Apocalypse, Mr. Sinister, Magneto, Mystique, etc. And the idea that X-Men like Storm, Jean, Wolverine, Beast, Rogue, Nightcrawler, Iceman, etc. would view those villains as closer allies and more trustworthy than the FF or the Avengers or Spider-Man, simply because of their genetic composition, is when you know they've lost the plot and any semblance of morality. This is the same story where one of the X-Men's most staunch human allies, Moira MacTaggert, was retconned into a mutant who wants to wipe out all mutants and wears the skin of her boyfriend Banshee after she kills him. That's also why I like the FoX-Men portrayal of Magneto, at least in the original trilogy played by Ian McKellen. He's evil and he knows it and doesn't pretend otherwise. He claims to believe in mutant supremacy but he doesn't hide that even in terms of mutants, he views himself as better than all the rest. His line to Pyro in The Last Stand about how the lower-level mutants are pawns that are expendable in his war against humans. Wolverine calling him out as a hypocrite that he's willing to sacrifice Rogue for the mutant cause rather than sacrifice himself. The way he turns on Mystique the second she's turned into a human because she's no longer of any use to him. His hubris into thinking he can control Jean as his ultimate weapon when she vaporized his best friend and her father figure and she has no such emotional attachment to Magneto, her formerly sworn enemy. Good point about Alan Moore and that movie. He had issues with Marvel as well, particularly when Chris Claremont tried to use Moore's work on Captain Britain in X-Men. Spoiler Yeah, and even the joke with JJJ is less funny when he's not got regular people to bounce off. I fully agree about Superman, weirdly the third act of it acts like the film did establish this cast to the point there's a guy who didn't have a single memorable line just standing in the corner of the spaceship. I don't know the daily planet crew at all bar Lois and the fact Jimmy is a womaniser. We don't even really see how Clark fits into the daily planet environment so it really is just Lois. Yeah, I think you can really see how even safe, populist art like superhero stuff can affect how people act from conversations like that. Fan likes the X-Men, other fans say they're like MLK, Stan Lee repeats that in his endless crusade for adulation, fan attaches criticism of this group who were not made to be civil rights leaders to that of civil rights leaders, fan now is defending the idea of ethnostates because the X-Men had one. It's really stupid but this is how way too many people's brains work. The X-Men are not only not a real minority but they're not even a real allegory for them but a lot of fans act like criticism of them, in or out of text, is akin to actual bigotry. Yeah, I think Magneto works best when you acknowledge he is a villain. Genocide does not justify a new genocide. I don't really know why X-Men writers tie themselves into knots trying to justify him. Maybe a holocaust survivor that uses his experience to justify his own genocide based on genetic superiority is just too thorny a concept for most superhero stuff to handle so they try make him more heroic and vindicated. I don't blame them for that, it is a complex, messy concept that feels more apt for just a straight character drama than a populist action/adventure story but I feel like if you don't want to commit to that use someone else as your villain. 51 minutes ago, Mandalorianknight said: Hide contents I feel like taking spidey's "you're not a killer" line as canonical proof she's never killed anyone when we see her do so is a bit of a "don't believe your lying eyes" thing. (I think it's much more likely he's just trying to talk her down, because if nothing else how would he even know whether or not most of these people survived?) You could handwave some things- maybe nobody dies in the hulk rampage, or scorpion attack where he throws a large burning object at two cops that explodes upon impact, or when she blows up a DODC prison that in no way had time to evacuate the detainees, but we do see her do things that 100% killed people onscreen, and not even people who were remotely bad or connected to her sister's capture or even the DODC as a whole. In the opening tank chase she's blowing up police cars. There are multiple shots in which the tank hits police cars and they explode, fire bursting out the windows. Those men and women are dead. Similarly, that guy who she forces to walk into a busy NYC street and promptly gets hit full-on by a speeding car is dead. And in neither case is killing those people helpful to her mission. What are the cop cars behind the tank going to do, pit-check it? The guy she walks into traffic doesn't give her any benefit either- I guess it shocks spider-man for a second but she also straight up waves to show him which mind she's in a second later. Not to mention all the random innocent people she severely injured or possessed. Or stuff like making MJ's body kiss peter and then revealing it was really her, which, like forcing that civilian to kill himself, is just kind of evil and isn't even hurting the DODC- not that it would make telepathic assault of that nature or forcing civilians to kill/harm themselves understandable. Wanda is definitely the worst of the three by far and it's not even close. There are a number of actual full-on villains in the MCU who are less evil and kill fewer innocents for more sympathetic reasons than her massacre of heroes, sorcerers, and innocents to... steal children from a variant of herself. To be fair, she does that as a straight villain. I think that comparing her acts in MoM to the acts of the other characters talked about is unfair as the narrative understands she's fully evil there. The issue with the other ones discussed is they're entirely supposed to be figures we root for once we "get" them. Quote
THELEGOBATMAN Posted August 2 Posted August 2 After watching the movie, it's funny how inaccurate but accurate the sets are. Like, the main idea behind the scenes is there, but it feels like some key components are missing, and some inclusions are completely off. But then again, I don't really see what else they could do that wouldn't warrant remaking those sets. Peter's apartment? Frank's van? The bodega where Peter buys flowers? Not really many other characters to include too—Frank, Sadie Sink's character... I suppose a display set (like the epic battle ones) with Spidey webbing The Hand as seen in the trailer would look awesome if done well. Or, I have an idea. A certain someone's office. Quote
Agent Kallus Posted August 2 Posted August 2 1 hour ago, THELEGOBATMAN said: Or, I have an idea. A certain someone's office. So the spoiler sets are just an excuse to sell Spoiler Naked Yelena? Quote
Mandalorianknight Posted August 3 Posted August 3 (edited) 16 hours ago, Renny The Spaceman said: To be fair, she does that as a straight villain. I think that comparing her acts in MoM to the acts of the other characters talked about is unfair as the narrative understands she's fully evil there. The issue with the other ones discussed is they're entirely supposed to be figures we root for once we "get" them. I agree, but she was brought up, so I included her. 2 hours ago, THELEGOBATMAN said: After watching the movie, it's funny how inaccurate but accurate the sets are. Like, the main idea behind the scenes is there, but it feels like some key components are missing, and some inclusions are completely off. But then again, I don't really see what else they could do that wouldn't warrant remaking those sets. Peter's apartment? Frank's van? The bodega where Peter buys flowers? Not really many other characters to include too—Frank, Sadie Sink's character... I suppose a display set (like the epic battle ones) with Spidey webbing The Hand as seen in the trailer would look awesome if done well. Or, I have an idea. A certain someone's office. Yeah, most of the important stuff and desirable characters are included but it's all jumbled. The builds are very close in some ways but not in others. There is a hot dog vendor but it's not a good likeness and in the wrong location. I think we 100% get an epic moment set of the hand fight. This movie is doing better than NWH, and while it lacks the Tobey/Andrew/Villains element to guarantee a new set, there are dynamic villains in a fight scene that feels built for an epic moment. The Punisher's Battle Van is the other obvious choice and they could slot in MJ or Sadie Sink if they really wanted to, but it all depends on whether or not lego sees enough dollar signs to- I mean, whether or not the movie's success causes Lego to decide punisher is now associated with non-R-rated material enough to make him. That office would get us Spoiler one of those spider-man PS4 suits the fans are always asking for. That's why you wanted a set of that scene, right? Not anything that might make your Dedra upset about wanting the other minifig in that scene in that costume? (There is a joke about the size of potatoes here but I can't figure it out) 1 hour ago, Agent Kallus said: So the spoiler sets are just an excuse to sell Reveal hidden contents Naked Yelena? Your potatoes are meager, you must expand your mind. If we make a few more spoiler sets, we could get that figure AND Spoiler pantless frank. Actually, you know what, we could fill a CMF with desirable variants here: Spoiler 1. Yelena with tactical bathhouse steam printing 2. Bathrobe Frank 3. Bathhouse Spider-man 4. Spider-Frank 5. Ned (with sharkfire bottle) 6. A 1-1 replica of the 1999 Chewbacca minifigure 7. Peter in women's athelticwear 8. Peter's apartment owner 9. That guy who loves spider man 10. Old Woman (the correct tank driver) 11. The guy who's forced to walk into traffic 12. (Chase figure) Naruto Edited August 3 by Mandalorianknight Quote
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