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Ragnarök Now - Day Two


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#101 CallMePie

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 09:35 PM

I'm unclear on one thing. Is this pub an actual place, or a land where people throw potato messages at eachother? If the latter, I'd like to see them quoted here. If the former, there's a rule against that, and this whole issue about whether it's a joke is a great example why. It can't be proven 100%. :sceptic:
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#102 Hinckley

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 09:42 PM

View PostDragonator, on 15 October 2012 - 09:28 PM, said:

it was a clear joke made to poke fun at Hervi.

This is a very subjective statement. If I was the brunt of the joke, I clearly missed it. I don't see how you could be so persistent on what my viewpoint of the situation was. If the "joke" was meant to "poke fun" at me, I still fail to see the joke. I hate that pub anyway. If Valjalla's server hadn't crashed in Germany, I wouldn't even have started drinking there. I should just stick with my piggies...

View PostDragonator, on 15 October 2012 - 09:28 PM, said:

Hervi is doing his usual scum thing, which is to use his usual plays to try and direct discussion to what he wants.

*huh* Yes, I have a long track record of writing plays as Scum... :hmpf: The times in recent memories when I was Scum, there were no plays. The nature of Bloodbrick II made it impossible anyway. Why is our esteemed D&D moderator engaging in such heavy metagaming?

View PostDragonator, on 15 October 2012 - 09:28 PM, said:

I note no proper discussion has happened regarding his behaviour yesterday. Speaking of behaviour, I should probably add that Steinvor had a few things to say about oink-face before he died. He found it weird that Hervi did NOT contact him before the first say as he usually does, and notably didn't say he hoped they were on the same side. Perhaps because Hervi knew already that they were not? Then when they did talk in the pub, Hervi was quite obvious in his attempts to make Stienvor think I shouldn't be trusted, by mentioning how much I "enjoyed" killing everyone in our fuzzy D&D session recently. Funny how his entire case is metagaming when it comes down to it, isn't it? :laugh: Entirely based on the dumb assumption that I would be stupi enough to roleclaim to a townie if I was not. He really doesn't understand viking behaviour at all. :hmph:

Let's have a proper discussion about it then. What about my behavior yesterday was so suspicious?

And no, I didn't talk to Steinvoir before this game started and I would hardly call it a tradition that I do, just because it happened once. I was certainly not going to talk to him after the vitriole after the last D&D recreation I hosted. Again, why is so much of what you are saying pure metagaming? And I never said anything about you enjoying killing everyone. That doesn't sound like me at all. And I had no suspicions of you before "the joke" was made.

View PostDragonator, on 15 October 2012 - 09:28 PM, said:

Anyway, from my assessment of Hervi's behaviour so far I feel I am right. He would be a lot more indecisive were he town, but it is always easier to spot direction when someone already knows that their accused is town.

I feel rather indecisive and rather it's you who has angry tunnel vision on me. I've been discussing other possibilities all day, even after voting for you. My vote stands as I think it's clear your perspective is either Scum, or maybe some sort of third-faction, neutral, I don't know, weirdness. You're acting more and more like you have something to hide. Focusing all of your energy on accusing me and offering nothing else to help the Town. Anger and accusing your accuser. I'm feeling less indecisive every time you post.

View PostCallMePie, on 15 October 2012 - 09:35 PM, said:

I'm unclear on one thing. Is this pub an actual place, or a land where people throw potato messages at eachother? If the latter, I'd like to see them quoted here. If the former, there's a rule against that, and this whole issue about whether it's a joke is a great example why. It can't be proven 100%. :sceptic:

It's called Inglorius Raucus Camaraderie. Or IRC. I would have no objections to these "transcripts" being posted here if the rules would allow it.

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#103 fhomess

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 09:57 PM

 

View PostCorneliusMurdock, on 15 October 2012 - 08:20 PM, said:

My vote will stand as it is. I think this is more important than any confusion with Gerrid at this point.
I am going to leave my vote with Gerrid for now, as there hasn't yet been a response, but I agree the primary discussion is likely to lead to a more interesting conclusion.

View PostScubacarrot, on 15 October 2012 - 08:36 PM, said:

Damn, I just realized something, I completely misread Finn's point. I thought he meant Gerrid was the third to vote for Danr. Because that's not the case, I will Unvote: Gerrid (Captain Genaro)...
Ah... not that's not what I was saying. Gerrid was the third vote for Wilhalm, which is a bit excessive if all you're trying to do is get someone to talk.


As for Dragmall vs. Hervi, I agree with Chief Mursi that Dragmall's reaction gave me a bit of a twitch, but I'm also a bit uncomfortable with lynching him over a comment made outside these halls. That said, going back to Dragmall's original retort:

View PostDragonator, on 15 October 2012 - 11:19 AM, said:

Well oink-boy I know you are trying to set me up to be your Hades and I'll have none of it thank you; it's a blatant fabrication. Firstly because if I was a neutral I wouldn't be a moron and claim to the guy that I murdered visciously the last time it happened (in our D&D match last weekend, that is, he was still bearing that grudge!), and secondly because it's so blatantly an "oh that dead guy said this guy is neutral let's lynch him" moment.
Here, Dragmall seems to be claiming that he never told Steinvoir he was neutral and after others confirmed the discussion did happen he says it was a joke.  Seems like this is a change of his story.

Am I misinterpreting that somehow?
 

#104 Dragonator

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 10:34 PM

View Postfhomess, on 15 October 2012 - 09:57 PM, said:

Here, Dragmall seems to be claiming that he never told Steinvoir he was neutral and after others confirmed the discussion did happen he says it was a joke.  Seems like this is a change of his story.
Um no, everyone except Hervi is saying that Steinvor was making a joke at Hervi's expense by saying that I had claimed neutral to him, which I of course did not do and which was perfectly clear in the way it was said. For someone that has hung around Steinvor so much in the Hall I would expect Hervi to see the clear sarcasm in the entire conversation, but instead he tried to use it to get me lynched, which I just find amusing. He whines that he is the victim when his entire case is built on a metagaming misconception, it's a rather sad attempt and I honestly would have expected better really. We all make mistakes though, that's how we catch the scum out. :thumbup: Hervi made a pretty bad decision to try and set this lynch up as he blew his cover right out of the water.

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#105 Waterbrick Down

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 10:37 PM

View PostHinckley, on 15 October 2012 - 09:02 PM, said:

As I've said there are two other people who know she is real, plus Artemis herself and I hope she doesn't fall for this and reveal herself. Your behavior seems like you're trying to get her to claim to you or to everyone. :hmpf:
Yes there are supposidly 4 people who can back this up, however since it is your honesty that is being called into question, the rest of us don't know this for a surity.

View PostHinckley, on 15 October 2012 - 09:02 PM, said:

Do you honestly believe there is no possibility that he claimed neutral while actually being Scum? Perhaps claiming neutral to excuse activity he may be caught doing?
This could be the case, however you initially pressed him because you thought he was neutral. From my perspective now that the idea that he may be scum is gaining ground you seem all to willing to go along with that assumption.

View PostHinckley, on 15 October 2012 - 09:02 PM, said:

Yes, very good. What have I been saying that doesn't add up? I can't answer to vague accusations and heavy sarcasm :sadnew: And where are others saying that my story doesn't add up? I'm seeing people confirming what I've said. I see backup that it is adding up.
The only confirmation we've seen is agreement that there was a conversation between you and a few others and that it appears Dragmall was joking about his neutrality. If there are other instances then please provide them, but you seem to be padding your argument with nice statements like this.

View PostHinckley, on 15 October 2012 - 09:02 PM, said:

Yesterday, you took what I said out of context. I agreed with Danr's defense of Bergulf and then voted for Danr, which you claim makes me suspicious. That would make sense if Danr had accused Bergulf. But Danr had defended him with a valid defense and yes, I agree, Danr was right, yesterday was a typical day for Bergulf in the history of games...of life. So, if Danr was Scum (which we now know he's not) and was defending Bergulf to win favor with the Town, he would've had to have had a valid defense that the Town would readily be able to agree with.
But again why defend Bergulf, this is day one we are talking about. Why would a supposed scum defend a townie that was going to get lynched, this thought should have gone through your head, I would have suspected it of you but no you went right along with it. Don't try giving me the Sveinn example either as basis for your acton. A quick perusial of Sveinn's example will reveal that most people thought he was defending an innocent while an actual analysis of his own statements revealed that he was actually quite neutral on the subject.

View PostHinckley, on 15 October 2012 - 09:02 PM, said:

See where your original train of thought was just off? Since then, I've worked my pigs off for the Town, trying to coordinate claims in private and bring forward information in a way that doesn't endanger anyone.
I'm sorry but I don't know how many times I've heard a scum trying to guilt trip innocent people just because they are working so hard.

View PostHinckley, on 15 October 2012 - 09:02 PM, said:

And now you are hinting that I would be less suspicious if you knew who Artemis was. Why would I throw all of my hard work away to verify myself when revealing Artemis could result in the death of our potentially only investigator? And how could a story like mine be made up? A lot of Townies are in that play as aliases, they know who they are and they know I'm telling the truth.
Again, even if there are townies who know this to be the truth, the rest of us not in the know can't confirm if you are lying or not, so that doesn't add crediblity to your story I'm afraid.

You are a very smart viking and you have my total respect, but I have expected more from you in these circumstances, whether it being more cautious in who you deal with or who you lynch, and right now I'm not seeing it. Maybe I'm just getting a different read and it's not your fault, or maybe it's because you aren't being on the level with us.

I'm still up for a lot of discussion, I still don't think we've gotten things straight enough yet to say who is right and there are alot of individuals spurting out half-baked ideas or assumptions that are confusing the actual facts i.e. things that a person has stated with honest certainty.

View PostDragonator, on 15 October 2012 - 10:34 PM, said:

Um no, everyone except Hervi is saying that Steinvor was making a joke at Hervi's expense by saying that I had claimed neutral to him, which I of course did not do and which was perfectly clear in the way it was said. For someone that has hung around Steinvor so much in the Hall I would expect Hervi to see the clear sarcasm in the entire conversation, but instead he tried to use it to get me lynched, which I just find amusing. He whines that he is the victim when his entire case is built on a metagaming misconception, it's a rather sad attempt and I honestly would have expected better really. We all make mistakes though, that's how we catch the scum out. :thumbup: Hervi made a pretty bad decision to try and set this lynch up as he blew his cover right out of the water.

Man am I manly today. :wub:
Alright now we have a clear statement.

Can any of the other individuals that were privy to this "joking" confrim this?

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#106 Dragonator

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 10:44 PM

View PostWaterbrick Down, on 15 October 2012 - 10:37 PM, said:

Can any of the other individuals that were privy to this "joking" confrim this?
They already have, it was Sveinn and Dagrun.

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#107 Waterbrick Down

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 11:08 PM

So let me see if I've got this then. Hervi claims that you told Steinvor that you were Neutral and you claim to have made a jest that suggested you were Neutral which is what Sveinn and Dagrun agree with.

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#108 Dragonator

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 11:17 PM

View PostWaterbrick Down, on 15 October 2012 - 11:08 PM, said:

So let me see if I've got this then. Hervi claims that you told Steinvor that you were Neutral and you claim to have made a jest that suggested you were Neutral which is what Sveinn and Dagrun agree with.
No. I did not tell Steinvor that. I in fact claimed town to Steinvor, and he claimed vanilla town back. Hervi claims that Steinvor said I had claimed neutral to him, which was a joke made in a place that we always make fake roleclaims in, and was poking fun at what happened when Hervi hosted our last D&D game. Hervi claims that it was not a joke, when it clearly was. Everyone else there saw it as a joke, nothing out of the ordinary antics we do. We claim crazy things all the time and jokingly accuse each other of being neutral/scum, and Hervi knows this. The fact he suddenly wants to take it seriously this time is why it is so suspicious, as the context was one of a joke.

If Steinvor truly was worried that I was neutral and wanted to tell Hervi, of all people, he would have done so in a private PM, which is what he usually does. A joke in the pub (IRC) doesn't cut it.

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#109 Waterbrick Down

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 11:23 PM

Got it, I was thinking there were two seperate instances. The first where you joked about it and the second where Steinvor told Hervi privately that he (Steinvor) was told by you (Dragmall) that you were a Neutral.

Thank you for straightening that out.

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#110 Pandora

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 11:43 PM

View PostHinckley, on 15 October 2012 - 09:02 PM, said:

As I've said there are two other people who know she is real, plus Artemis herself and I hope she doesn't fall for this and reveal herself. Your behavior seems like you're trying to get her to claim to you or to everyone. :hmpf:
I very clearly was not. I have already said that Artemis (again, if she exists) is a bloody fool for contacting an unconfirmed viking such as you, so why on earth would I think it's a good idea to contact another unconfirmed viking (ie me)? My behaviour may seem that way to you, but anyone can go back and read what I actually said, and we only have your word that the other people who can confirm Artemis's existence exist. Would you like to give us a few more code names of more people who can confirm the existence of the people who can confirm the existence of Artemis? And you accuse me of twisting words, seriously :hmpf:

View PostHinckley, on 15 October 2012 - 09:02 PM, said:

Yes, very good. What have I been saying that doesn't add up? I can't answer to vague accusations and heavy sarcasm :sadnew:
You're still grumpy I called you out yesterday. All those things that didn't add up. Especially the bit where you finally managed to give a firm opinion about Bergulf (that you thought he was scummy) and then that all seems to have been forgotten even after Danr showing up as town. No push to 'get the one who got away', nope, just a play about nothing (certainly nothing the hall at large needed to hear about) with a tagged on accusation at the end, based on meta-physical game-theory. You were very keen to point out no matter what that you thought Danr was right, even though you thought Bergulf is scummy. Add to that the speech made by Bergulf earlier that frankly sounds like it fell from your lips, not his. I think you were right about Bergulf being coached by his scum team (see how your opinion of him was difficult to pin down?) because you were part of the scum team coaching him.
Nice face, by the way.

View PostHinckley, on 15 October 2012 - 09:02 PM, said:

Yesterday, you took what I said out of context.
You can say it as much as you like, but it still won't make it true, and anyone can see that.

View PostHinckley, on 15 October 2012 - 09:02 PM, said:

I agreed with Danr's defense of Bergulf and then voted for Danr, which you claim makes me suspicious.
Because you thought Bergulf was town too? But you also said..? Gah, you can see how a viking can get confused by your flip-flopping around. I asked you to say once and for all, and you said you thought he was scummy, so how come you agreed with Danr's defense?

View PostHinckley, on 15 October 2012 - 09:02 PM, said:

I agree, Danr was right, yesterday was a typical day for Bergulf in the history of games...of life.
Yeah, Bergulf couldn't possibly be scum, because he acted like he always did. :sarcasm:  Another tacit defense of Bergulf (and how long until you start using 'tacit' in your speeches to try to charm me?) just like day one. Except Bergulf was transiently a completely different viking today, thanks to the speech you wrote for him.

View PostHinckley, on 15 October 2012 - 09:02 PM, said:

Since then, I've worked my pigs off for the Town, trying to coordinate claims in private and bring forward information in a way that doesn't endanger anyone.
Poor hard-working Hervi. You have indeed worked hard, I just don't believe it's for the good of the town.

View PostHinckley, on 15 October 2012 - 09:02 PM, said:

And now you are hinting that I would be less suspicious if you knew who Artemis was. Why would I throw all of my hard work away to verify myself when revealing Artemis could result in the death of our potentially only investigator?
Noooo, you would still be suspicious pig-boy, and I don't want to know who Artemis is (I'm sure I just covered this), and I quite clearly didn't ask that.
Yes! Why would you randomly tell us about a kooky night action that might be true or not, and yet could be verified by you privately and then used to help us instead of alerting the scum to its existence? Whyyyy??

View PostHinckley, on 15 October 2012 - 09:02 PM, said:

And how could a story like mine be made up? A lot of Townies are in that play as aliases, they know who they are and they know I'm telling the truth.
Uhm, quite easily actually. And if I say something about most of us not knowing (possibly all of us, really) who the aliases are and just assuming there are aliases out there... somewhere, I'm sure you'll accuse me of asking them to come forward and reveal themselves. (I'm not, before anyone sticks their hand up and outs themself).

View PostHinckley, on 15 October 2012 - 09:02 PM, said:

I think you're very smart and I respect you a great deal but your analysis is way off here. If I'm lynched, I'll turn up Town and all my hard work will still pay off as everyone I've been in contact with will know that I've been on the level with them. If I'm lynched, I really hope you're Scum, because your mistrust of me is disappointing.
Aww, thanks. I'm smart but disappointing, just what I was aiming for.

Can you just confirm for the stenographer whether you believe Dragmall is neutral or scum?

And also, you seem to be completely unconcerned that someone who is as inexperienced (presumably) as 'Artemis' as to role-claim to you on day one is also the same sort of person who would attract a blocker the very night after doing so (on night one, no less). The fact that he/she/it was conveniently blocked is fishy as hell, but the fact that this doesn't concern you is a damn-sight fishier. And you're the only person we know that knew of her/his role.
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#111 Hinckley

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 11:52 PM

View PostDragonator, on 15 October 2012 - 11:17 PM, said:

Hervi claims that it was not a joke, when it clearly was.

I can accept their opinions that it was presented as a joke. I did not take it that way at the time, and you know as well as anybody else that I never go in that pub and am unaware of these unwritten rules about making false roleclaims.

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#112 Dragonator

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 11:58 PM

View PostHinckley, on 15 October 2012 - 11:52 PM, said:

I can accept their opinions that it was presented as a joke. I did not take it that way at the time, and you know as well as anybody else that I never go in that pub and am unaware of these unwritten rules about making false roleclaims.
So in light of their opinions, and the fact I never made any such roleclaim, do you still stand by your assertion that I am neutral? Poor Steinvor must be laughing his head off at all of this, it's the sort of thing that would amuse him greatly.

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#113 Hinckley

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 12:14 AM

View PostDragonator, on 15 October 2012 - 11:58 PM, said:

So in light of their opinions, and the fact I never made any such roleclaim, do you still stand by your assertion that I am neutral? Poor Steinvor must be laughing his head off at all of this, it's the sort of thing that would amuse him greatly.

Your anger and metagaming empty accusations at me since certainly don't give me any confidence that you're not lying. Look back on what I've said. I've been willing to look objectively at the situation. But your persistence against me makes me think that I've struck some nerve with you. If you have the records of what was said, can't you see that I took what was said seriously? Why haven't you posted it? Have you asked God if you can? I'm ready to answer for my Actions, bring it on. Viking to pig-fucker. I thought what was said was serious and at no time was any indication given to me that it was a joke, especially not a joke that was at my expense for recent events. I certainly would've remembered that. But, with the oddity of Artemis's roleclaim and the prospect that she may be our only investigator, could you see why I would think a neutral claim might be something to follow up on? Sorry I can't see through your pure metagaming and anger to see how you're not hiding something at this point. You haven't seemed very rational to me today, nor do you seem like you have anything to go on except for the fact that I accused you.

How did you know it was you before I revealed you? If the record was brought to you by someone else or you never said that yourself, how did you identify yourself as Hades before I revealed it?

View PostPandora, on 15 October 2012 - 11:43 PM, said:

I very clearly was not. I have already said that Artemis (again, if she exists) is a bloody fool for contacting an unconfirmed viking such as you, so why on earth would I think it's a good idea to contact another unconfirmed viking (ie me)? My behaviour may seem that way to you, but anyone can go back and read what I actually said, and we only have your word that the other people who can confirm Artemis's existence exist. Would you like to give us a few more code names of more people who can confirm the existence of the people who can confirm the existence of Artemis? And you accuse me of twisting words, seriously :hmpf:

Let me be quite clear. I would reveal Artemis if everyone wanted me to. I do not hear the cry for her name at this point. Same goes for anyone else in the play. People were asking for Hades and I provided his name. Until then, I'm going to view any statement like "You can't even prove these people exist" as trying to get me to prove it by revealing them. They've come to me, I'm protecting them. I'm the first line of defense for these claimed power roles. If everyone thinks I'm making the whole thing up and lynches me, so be it. The first line of defense falls and readies the second line for battle. I will not reveal anybody just to save myself.

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#114 TinyPiesRUs

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 12:25 AM

Vote Count

Hervi Pudding-Head (Hinckley) - 3 votes (Dragonator, Scouty, Pandora)
Dragmall (Dragonator) - 4 votes (Hinckley, Cornelius Murdock, Sandy, badboytje88)
Gerrid (Captain Genaro) - 1 votes (fhomess)

With a 22 players remaining, a majority of 12 is required to lynch. There are 25 hours left in the day.

#115 Hinckley

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 12:27 AM

View PostPandora, on 15 October 2012 - 11:43 PM, said:

Yes! Why would you randomly tell us about a kooky night action that might be true or not, and yet could be verified by you privately and then used to help us instead of alerting the scum to its existence? Whyyyy??

It's simple. I had two investigator claims. Bringing the information forward got everyone thinking and talking and more equipped to find out what we're up against. If it seemed to everyone that either one  was lying, I would've revealed them. And I was advised by the people you think don't exist that it was a good time to bring it forward. But it turns out the second investigator was a mistaken inference. Why would I not bring it forward? The Town is as strong as the information it has. I want to strengthen the Town. It has certainly brought a lot of activity to analyze today and that will be the most powerful tool for us as the days start to stack up.

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#116 Palathadric

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 01:13 AM

Wow! This has taken forever to listen to and dissect! One thing is clear though. We have to get a lynch done today. In my mind the vote is split between Gerrid, Dragmaul, Hervi, and Bergulf. Who to choose? Well, since Hervi and Dragmaul have the most votes, I would tend to go for one of them. From what I've seen, I would say that Hervi is the more suspicious. Since the beginning I thought his interactions with Danr and Bergulf have been suspicious, but then I don't like the way Dragmaul defended himself. One reason I would like to keep Hervi alive over Dragmaul is that Hervi actually tend to try to get things done, whereas Dragmaul, if he is town, would seem to be less of a loss then if Hervi were to sie as town. I don't know which way to go at present. The problem is that they both could be town who just got tangled up in the wrong mess. Much too confusing. I would prefer to go for Bergulf or Gerrid, but it would be pointless if we can't get enough votes to lynch. It seems to me that if we lynch Bergulf and he comes up scum it is more than likely that Hervi is scum too.
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#117 Captain Genaro

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 01:27 AM

I hope that my statement can clear up any confusion there is between myself and Finn.

View Postfhomess, on 15 October 2012 - 05:08 PM, said:

I'm sorry, but you were the third vote for him.

I never intended to claim otherwise.


View Postfhomess, on 15 October 2012 - 05:08 PM, said:

How would it have been foolish? ... That would also have been a nice spot to hide, I suppose.

It would have been voting for no one, voting for Danr, or voting for someone without substantial evidence to back it up. What would you have thought if I went off on a tirade attacking someone who I had no evidence against while all the attention is on Danr? Does that seem like something us townies would do?

View Postfhomess, on 15 October 2012 - 05:08 PM, said:

Good. Keep your thoughts to yourself until they're demanded of you. That's a good way to show that you're here to help us find the Servants of Loki.
 
 
 
I don't think that I came across clearly enough. First, when I posted this, no one seemed to be suspicious enough for me to call them out. Second, I don’t know for a fact who is townie or not, I just have a gut feeling. Wouldn’t it have been stupid for me to have gone out at the beginning of today and said “hey, I think x,y, and z are all townie but I have no evidence to support this.”? What happens of one of those people ends up being scum? Couldn’t someone look at this and think that I’m some sort of investigator or that I’m in cahoots with him? Defending people who haven’t been attacked without ANY evidence other than my word this early on sure doesn’t seem to be the best policy for me.
If there is any more confusion or if you have any questions, just ask.

Moving on to the Hervi/Dragmall issue. I am inclined to believe Hervi. While his initial claim seems to be somewhat extreme, it doesn't sound like something that the scum would try to do. It draws far too much attention to the accuser and only has the possibility for one town death before we all turned around to lynch the accuser. Considering that they already lost one of their members and we're only on the second day, it seems like a rather rash plan that has too small of a return. If it was a less experienced individual, I might be willing to believe that the scum are simply using them but Hervi has done this for far too long in his past life to be easily tricked. For these reasons, it seems to me that Hervi is telling the truth and I'm inclined to believe him.
Vote: Dragmall (Dragonator)
Hervi, if Dragmall turns out to be an honest townie, you better have a real dam good explanation as to why we shouldn’t lynch you.

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Thomas, an INNOCENT fish-watcher aboard the Pearl.
Ginny, a TOWNIE jockey in Heartlake Heartbreak!.
Gerrid, a SCUM Servant of Loki in Ragnarök Now
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#118 Chromeknight

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 01:28 AM

I am Demeter. I am not an investigator. I never claimed to be. I used an unfortunate turn of phrase which was misunderstood.

Like Hervi, I thought (player known as Atermis) was seeming more towny today, given what they said.
I approached them and used an idiom, basicly suggesting 'I think you're town'

I did not mean to set off paranoid city about there being another faction. A thought which seems to have rightly fallen by the wayside.

Welcome to the new player. Yeesh. I knew school was fraught, but there's just so much damn baggage and history around with you guys...

Anyway. Yes, I understand why Hervi is being cagey with Atermis' identity
Yes, I know who Atermis is, though I did not know at that time s/he was an investigator of any sort.

My thought regarding the complexity of Atermis' power is that it helps the town achieve results. Perhaps it does not matter if Atermis is blocked, but the action only fails if one of the two targets is blocked.

Unfortunatly, it now looks like the case against Dragmall has devolved into 'he said vs he said'
If there isn't a second investigator, it is less likely there is a cult (other than damned Loki worshipers).
If there isn't a cult, the suggestion that someone is 'neutral', regardless of the circumstances of the claim, is less troubling. Especially given that such a claim borders on discussing game tactics and roles outside threads or PMs, something forbidden by the rules.
Ultimately, even if Dragmall is neutral (or something else) where it was claimed makes the claim inadmissable as evidence.

As for who is scum then, I'm still reading over the noisiness.

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#119 Hinckley

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 01:37 AM

View PostChromeknight, on 16 October 2012 - 01:28 AM, said:

I am Demeter. I am not an investigator. I never claimed to be.

Thank you. I appreciate you helping verify my story. :sweet:

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#120 Waterbrick Down

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 01:38 AM

View PostCaptain Genaro, on 16 October 2012 - 01:27 AM, said:

Moving on to the Hervi/Dragmall issue. I am inclined to believe Hervi. While his initial claim seems to be somewhat extreme, it doesn't sound like something that the scum would try to do. It draws far too much attention to the accuser and only has the possibility for one town death before we all turned around to lynch the accuser. Considering that they already lost one of their members and we're only on the second day, it seems like a rather rash plan that has too small of a return. If it was a less experienced individual, I might be willing to believe that the scum are simply using them but Hervi has done this for far too long in his past life to be easily tricked. For these reasons, it seems to me that Hervi is telling the truth and I'm inclined to believe him.
Vote: Dragmall (Dragonator)
Hervi, if Dragmall turns out to be an honest townie, you better have a real dam good explanation as to why we shouldn’t lynch you.
The point could be made that if we're lynching the accuser of a townie, then we should lynch Hervi for his contributions against Danr yesterday. As Sveinn has already commented, it is rare that we ever end up lynching the actual accusers. Just saying...

View PostChromeknight, on 16 October 2012 - 01:28 AM, said:

I am Demeter. I am not an investigator. I never claimed to be. I used an unfortunate turn of phrase which was misunderstood.

Like Hervi, I thought (player known as Atermis) was seeming more towny today, given what they said.
I approached them and used an idiom, basicly suggesting 'I think you're town'

I did not mean to set off paranoid city about there being another faction. A thought which seems to have rightly fallen by the wayside.

Welcome to the new player. Yeesh. I knew school was fraught, but there's just so much damn baggage and history around with you guys...

Anyway. Yes, I understand why Hervi is being cagey with Atermis' identity
Yes, I know who Atermis is, though I did not know at that time s/he was an investigator of any sort.

My thought regarding the complexity of Atermis' power is that it helps the town achieve results. Perhaps it does not matter if Atermis is blocked, but the action only fails if one of the two targets is blocked.

Unfortunatly, it now looks like the case against Dragmall has devolved into 'he said vs he said'
If there isn't a second investigator, it is less likely there is a cult (other than damned Loki worshipers).
If there isn't a cult, the suggestion that someone is 'neutral', regardless of the circumstances of the claim, is less troubling. Especially given that such a claim borders on discussing game tactics and roles outside threads or PMs, something forbidden by the rules.
Ultimately, even if Dragmall is neutral (or something else) where it was claimed makes the claim inadmissable as evidence.

As for who is scum then, I'm still reading over the noisiness.
Thank you for the clarification, this helps relieve some of my doubts, assuming that you aren't a scum also in league with Hervi. :tongue: But that aside, this helps clear things a little.

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#121 Dragonator

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 02:29 AM

View PostHinckley, on 16 October 2012 - 12:14 AM, said:

How did you know it was you before I revealed you? If the record was brought to you by someone else or you never said that yourself, how did you identify yourself as Hades before I revealed it?
Your wording made it pretty obvious, and Steinvor and I only ever joke about each other. Much like we shout neutral at each other every D&D game. We've developed a strong hatred for them, it's a running joke. That and a quick log check naturally confirmed it, and I wanted to put a stop to your insinuations before you could role out the accusation and direct the conversation as you wanted it. Pulled the rug out from under somewhat, hmm? Your single line vote certainly made that obvious, you needed some time to think. :classic:

To be fair, my anger towards you is entirely based on the fact that you would use such a terrible argument to try and get me lynched. Letting Steinvor lead you along all the time is one thing, but the fact you said you wouldn't let him after the last time he did this to you sort of adds to the humour of this situation, considering his history of saying untrue things to try and mess with your head. However I do feel that you are purposefully misunderstanding him and trying to use that to your benefit, as the other individuals that were present thought it was a joke and had no reason to pursue the "claim" when made in a place outside of the gamethread or PMs.

This combined with what has been said by others regarding your actions yesterday are plenty to want to vote for you, far more than you have against me. I would be willing to make the assurance that Hervi is scum, and I am happy to pay the price if I am wrong. I simply can't believe that he is a dumb enough townie to try this meta-physical attack, as it was put earlier, there has to be some other motivation.

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#122 Hinckley

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 02:48 AM

View PostDragonator, on 16 October 2012 - 02:29 AM, said:

Letting Steinvor lead you along all the time is one thing, but the fact you said you wouldn't let him after the last time he did this to you sort of adds to the humour of this situation, considering his history of saying untrue things to try and mess with your head. However I do feel that you are purposefully misunderstanding him and trying to use that to your benefit, as the other individuals that were present thought it was a joke and had no reason to pursue the "claim" when made in a place outside of the gamethread or PMs.

We know he was Einherjar, why would he try to lead me astray?  Was it an obvious joke or was he leading me astray? And is there a rule about communicating outside of PMs? I must've missed it.

Quote

6. Do not play the game outside the thread. Similarly, do not post out of character inside the thread; you must always play the role given to you. Game tactics and roles may only be discussed in the game thread or via PM with other players. Private discussion is done at your own risk and should be treated as part of the game.

Private discussion doesn't seem to be limited to PMs. I had no reason to not think that the conversation I had regarding the game wasn't part of the game. If you have access to these logs, I would imagine you would be able to see if there was a way I might take it seriously or that it was never revealed to me as a joke.

View PostDragonator, on 16 October 2012 - 02:29 AM, said:

This combined with what has been said by others regarding your actions yesterday are plenty to want to vote for you, far more than you have against me. I would be willing to make the assurance that Hervi is scum, and I am happy to pay the price if I am wrong. I simply can't believe that he is a dumb enough townie to try this meta-physical attack, as it was put earlier, there has to be some other motivation.

I've answered all the concerns about my behavior yesterday. What specifically are you concerned about? What other motivation could I have to suspect you? I had no suspicions of you before Steinvoir made his "joke". In analyzing the need for two investigators I came up with the possibility that there would be a neutral or third faction out there. That lead me back to what Steinvoir said. It's as simple as that. I brought the info forward. Others responded to wanting to learn your identity and then you threw a very suspicious fit. You haven't done anything since to make me believe you are Einherhar.

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#123 Dragonator

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 03:08 AM

I guess we can talk in circles as much as we like then, it isn't getting us or the town anywhere. Time for other people to make a decision on what has been discussed today. If you were honestly convinced by a joke, then that is unfortunate and is really going to cause problems for the town. However I am sceptical because it seems like you led the lynch yesterday with it, and now you're leading it again today after you got away with that. I want to make sure that you don't get away with it a second time if I do end up being lynched; you will be lynched tomorrow when I am convicted and found to be town.

I think you'll find private discussion is intended to refer to "Private Messaging" from the previous sentence, and does not include a public chat outside of the game thread, but this isn't the place for that discussion, since we are manly vikings.

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#124 Hinckley

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 03:22 AM

Something has been brought to my attention that I cannot ignore.

Unvote: Dragmall (Dragonator)

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#125 Dragonator

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 03:59 AM

Due to some interesting information I have received I'll also be dropping my accusations.

Unvote: Hervi Pudding-Head (Hinckley)

I tell you, games of life are insane, I prefer our weekly D&D any day, far more manly!

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