Appie

Considering Lego has never used this type of suspension in 40 years I think we are well beyond the point of speculating. In fact it's more likely that one of the reason they made the F1 suspension arms and used them in all the models you linked was to provide an alternative to this type of suspension with less risk of breaking parts. The only thing stopping a kid from turning your suspension about 60 degrees is that flimsy cockpit made of connectors and soft axles. But whatever man. Just tried to help make your model more kid friendly and thus more Lego-like. You don't want the advice? Fine. Good luck in the contest.

I feel a 70-80's contest incoming?

Thanks, the engine wasn't my idea, seen it around a few times and wanted to use it here. I personally think the hood is that half liftarm on top too high, making the whole cabin look smushed? I couldn't get it lower while keeping the engine. So I just thought this is one of those americans that beefed up the engine of his truck and needed a bigger hood And I see I promised some sort of instructions for this one as well. More on the list to do

Which I think this model does. Not in your hands, but in the hands of a kid? Yup, or do you seriously think they are only going to be pushing that "suspension" only while the model is on the ground so that it will touch the ground before it twists the axle too far? People come in this topic and claim it should be an official set, while it fails the first criteria for an official set.... (and thus failing one of the guidelines for this contest: "make it as official as possible") But Appie, my whole story about normal use of axles in Technic sets! Yup, but they never have to endure the abuse that a kid can put on this suspension and if an axle in normal use in an official set does have too much torque applied to it the design team goes back to the drawing board.

Of course it won't permanently twist axles, he's an AFOL, but put this construction in any of the sets he linked with the F1 suspension arms and Lego will be looking forward to alot of angry emails. And again, I can't stress this enough: another solution that is more Lego and kid friendly is very easy to do. And the model looks cool, I agree, but I can't vote for a model with such an obvious illegal technique that is so easy to fix.

Because sets that use a part designed to bend and a Unimog that uses the 1-2mm tolerance of lift arms is the same as twisting a part not designed to twist? Give me a set that twists an axle and I'll back off. I like looking for the limits of building as well, but draw a line at something that is twisting a part not designed to twist. And my Lego does last forever, because Lego doesn't teach kids to dumb stuff like this with their axles. And again the whole suspension is easy to do in another way. I thought of another idea yesterday as well involving rubber parts (1x2 with axle holes) to fit in the 3 studs height. Which is a part, unlike an axle, designed to bend. But keep using illegal techniques instead of thinking of ways to avoid them. Like you said, to each their own.

It's a great way for kids to break their axles you mean? A lot of stuff people call illegal I think they are overreacting too, but bending axles is not what Lego would do for the simple reason that kids would bent them too far, thus breaking the axles. This is exactly why you will never see this in an official set. That an AFOL knows the limits and can call it torsion suspension does not make it any less illegal, especially since a legal method fits perfectly in the model as I described in my previous post.

It looks pretty cool, but This. The front suspension is basically working on twisting axles. This is something Lego would never do. If anything is considered an illegal technique, it's freaking this! Also, you can build a 4 stud high front suspension with a normal spring inbetween the top wishbones, functioning as an anti-sway bar/suspension. Don't like the steering wheel functioning as a joystick either.

Indeed if this is "simple" I can't wait to see what you consider "complex". The curves, interior and colour scheme are awesome.

Really cool little model, nice amount of functions and besides the wheels (I love them, but Lego doesn't make them anymore) this could be an official set. One minor suggestion: happen to have the parts of the 42031 seat in another colour? Since the main colour of the model is red, it doesn't really pop.

I always find the discussion of illegal techniques rather funny when people talk about official sets. Sariel in his review of the 42050 even mentions he considered the bending of rigid hoses in that illegal, while in the 90's official sets made all kind of bends with rigid hoses for looks and the flex system. So my rule has always been simple: if it was ever in an official set, it's legal. It's their product, they know what beating it can take.

I think the big difference of the Sbrick compared to other custom parts is that it provides a way of communication (Bluetooth) that isn't possible with the current PF remote control (yet) and unlike other custom parts, it can be replaced by 2 Lego IR recievers. So switching the MOC to 100% Lego is pretty easy. Sbrick's Bluetooth is good for MOCs in the sun, events with more than 4 people using PF models or boat MOCs where IR gives problems. With manuals already on tablets, I think it's only a matter of time before Lego launches PF remote control system V2 (not the 9398 IR receiver, but a complete overhaul like the V2 pneumatics in the 42043) with IR and Bluetooth combined in one reciever.

Yes, it will have a seat, steering wheel and some screens for Batman to stare at.

Time for another update. Past week I have been working on the chassis and some minor tweaks and details on the "arms" of the model. Now it looks like this: For the bottom 2 (of the 4) exhausts I tried quite a few things to get it a stud higher (where it belongs on the real model), but it was either grinding the drivetrain gears or interfered with the transformation to battle tank, both things I can't really change much about. The top 2 exhausts will most likely be a stud too high as well, due to the drivetrain (or top 2 correct and the bottom 2 exhausts 2 studs too low, depending how you look at it), but I felt I at least needed to get all 4 exhausts in there, since it is such a prominent feature on the side, the same goes for the round end (the 24T gear and pulley) of the rear "arms". Top view (in poor sharpness, I really don't like the new camera mode on my phone ) Technically it can drive now with the 2 XL's. The reason for the huge gap in the centre is for the steering "gearbox". Need plenty of space for it with 4 gearracks and 2 servo's. The battery boxes will most likely be mounted at the rear above the afterburner and at the front. Depends how much space I need for the other features, if either or both spaces are not used I will add the containment seats at the rear and/or a hook at the front. 360 steering mode. I suppose I can make the gaps on the chassis for turning the wheels a little shorter, because that space is not really used, but going to wait and see how much space I need there for crab steering and how far I can move arms out with a mechanism. Speaking of which: This is the maximum arm extension. Now with the fun of making the steering gearbox I can finally see if some of my ideas will work or not for getting the wheels straight after transformation. Also messed around a little with the afterburner. So far it can just move back and forward. I want to link this to the normal steering mode (and have it hidden when in 360 or crab mode). I also took a shot at making a breakdisc and other details on the wheels. I did not want to resort to stickers so this is what I came up with. I think I am going to change the round 1x1 plates for Tooth horizontal to give the breakdisc a slightly more round look and I am going to change the centre round 2x2 plate for a dark bluish grey one since that is more like the real model and it makes the batarang pop more. The pearl gold breaks are a product of looking at parts available in this colour and came close to the actual model. The whole thing spins freely on the wheels as does the "electro motor" on the rear. Not very realistic when it drives (will probably move along a little), but when it's standing still I can at least keep them in the real position. So much for this update, hope you guys like what I did so far. Next update it might be driving with at least 2 steering modes

Wow, really cool C-Model! Great use of all the parts available. Very nice solutions on the dashboard and for the rear lights. He has pratically no parts left to build that

Give the SUV a winch? For the turntable... this trailer doesn't really give a good excuse to use it as a connection point to the car, so design a new propeller around it? edit: basically what the guy above said lol

Yeah something like that. Looks pretty good. I wouldn't worry about the rigid hoses damaging other parts, they can bend quite well. I think you can fix them at the sides of the red lift arm below the steering wheel with a #1 connector. Or use a #3 connector instead of the #4 and place it one stud closer to the cabin. With both options the rigid hose will make a little bend, but no stress on other parts I think. Up to you of course. It looks solid already. Just making a suggestion for a tweak. Really cute little model.

Oh this is funny. I want(ed) to built a forklift for this contest as well (if I get time for it) and had 2 ideas for a B-model. One of them was a tow truck I was already leaning towards using the other idea for the B-model, but no doubt now I guess Anyway, reason I quoted the picture as well, the back looks pretty good now, the cabin still looks a little off to me, maybe make the rear of the roof straight instead of it being at angle? Or make the "front window" shorter so the roof is straight? I think that would make it look even better. Either way, it's a cool model and I look forward to your B-model.

Yeah, it's huge. Westcoast Customs made a life sized replica and that's a shot of it, here a couple more: If I remember correctly, Batman ingame is 6 feet 4 inches (1.93 meters) and he barely tops the front window when he stands besides it and wheels are up until his manboobs (think I got a picture of that somewhere on my PS4).

First version I was like: very cool! Second: looks even better with the top off! Third: omg hilarious. Fun way to breathe new life into an old MOC.

Thanks everybody. Which windscreen did you have in mind? I tried looking for one that would fit 1 stud wide and the closest I got was a 1x4 trans-red tile. Which could work, but I have no idea how to mount it between the wheels and have it automated upon transformation. Thanks, And I am a little worried about that as well, for the crab steering mode I want the wheels at an angle upon transformation (most likely with an auto clutch to let the wheels move freely) like it works in the game, but also because this would prevent stress on the parts. I have some rough ideas on how to do that, but at the moment I can't really test any of them until I got the 2 other driving modes up and working. Minor update: Didn't have much time to work on this yesterday, so currently working on the rear of the chassis with the afterburner. Decided to use 3L track links inverted to look like the exhaust. I didn't know of another way to get an open tunnel through which I can move flame parts in and out (looking through the barrels, cylinders and whatnot on bricklink didn't provide an approriate alternative). Considered to use the very small Technic panels for it, but that didn't give a look I liked. PF Leds through these flame parts didn't quite give the lighting effect I hoped for, so for now the PF leds aren't directly behind the flames, but a stud higher to "shine on them".

Update october 2023: After abandoning this MOC about 7 years ago, I felt it was time to revisit it after years of brewing ideas to make this work. I am getting close to a full functional model, but not sure I can eliminate the last few issues completely. Currently the transformation works flawlessly, drive works, brake flaps work, steering wheel in the cab works, actual steering works somewhat, 360 turning works somewhat. The problems with steering is mainly in the arms for the wheels, the part above the wheel with the small turntables has too much flex, I need to tackle this while trying to keep the look of the arm as close to the source material as possible (and I already took some liberties there as you can see). It houses 2 XL for drive. There is 1 wheel at the front under the cockpit and one behind the exhaust each with their own XL. A concept was made to put the motor besides the wheel, like how the "real" model has an electro motor there, but it gave similar problems like the steering arm flex problems. 2 L- motors to steer these wheels 4 L-motors to steer the wheels at each arm 1 L-motor to act as a switch for "360" turning with 3 PF switches it inverts 1 drive motor, 1 steering arm motor at the rear and 1 at the front. I also use this setting to turn the wheels close to completely sideways for the transformation (I didn't do this in the picture above) 1 Servo for the brake flaps 2x (train) battery boxes. Also to be clear: the arms do not carry the weight of this model. I cheated, those 2 wheels for drive under the model+4 bogey wheels placed directly under the battery boxes carry the weight. One of my biggest mistakes from 8 years ago, was thinking Lego could handle this, so that was abondoned instantly for this. I also figured it would be nice to have a vehicle that's basically a tank, build like a tank, so it has about 40 5x7 frames, flip-flop beams and I tried to secure every panel into position. This makes it very heavy, but quite sturdy. Special note to https://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?/profile/21067-hass-kabal/ He made a system bricks model of this batmobile long ago (2015) and I used some of his solutions, like the wheel arches on the side of the front arms, the steering wheel in the cab and I pretty much sized up his "electro" motors on the inside of the wheels. I hope to make a video of the whole thing within the next month, but no promises More pics will probably happen sooner than that. Original post from 8 years ago: Hardly finished anything on this model, but felt like sharing the progress so far anyway. Building this is the goal: Here's a video which shows various functions of the batmobile in the game: I am planning to add the following functions: -2x XL motor for 4WD (I expect the total weight to be about 3-4kg, so I reckon I could use their power. I am a little afraid of breaking gears/axles, so still have L motors as a backup plan. -2 servo motors which are going to provide 3 ways of steering: Normal drive with airflaps to assist steering (as seen in the video) 360 degree turn on the spot (unfortunately not in the video but it can do this) Battle tank mode with crab steering -2 M motors for the turret and opening the cockpit for Batman to get in (I expect to add that function anyway besides the 2 functions I want for the turret) -9 PF lights, among which 1 set for the afterburner in "normal drive mode" I wanted to built this model since Januari, I even briefly considered it for TC7, but Jim and I both agreed that this vehicle fails the "looks like a normal car in non-battle mode" Meanwhile some other people on Eurobricks had a crack at the model (click en clicker) I liked the first topic alot for the CGI pictures of the batmobile like this, because seeing all the details on a model that's mostly black ingame is kind of hard. The fact that Warner Bros cancelled the version of the game that came with a scale model of the batmobile didn't help either, luckily these pictures also help for getting the scale right in the MOC. The second topic is pretty nice for some of his brickbuild solutions. An area I am not too familiar with since I built mostly Technic and lack knowledge of normal Lego parts. Two things I don't like about the second model: the wheels are too small (or the model too big for the wheels), especially shows around the wheelarches, but the wheelarches on my model are too thick too, but not as much as this one I think. The other thing is that he cut and drilled some parts to fit the model. I like to find solutions within the Lego system, so modding is a big no-no for me. Anywho, time for some pictures. It isn't much (not even in time invested, since I just did a little every moment I had time for it), but at least I can copy-paste to the other side instantly, assuming I don't have to make adjustments (as if lol) The midsection is just for me to get a rough idea of how it will look (leaning on a BB so it won't fall over). So it's lacking details just about everywhere in that section. Wheels and stuff missing some details too, but I want to get a functional model first. Every wheel needed to have 3 things: drive, steering and lights. The real model has electro motors on each wheel, I briefly considered mounting a M or L motor on the side and have it drive the wheel, but getting it locked in place there wouldn't look right with the actual model (wire of the L motor basically going over the inner tire). One thing I haven't looked into though is making my own rims for the tires, I will see how this works out first. The wires for the lights have been in many places and this is just about the only place where they don't interfere with the steering and driving gears. Here you can also see the main reason why my wheelarch is too thick: I needed 2 studs to fit those functions above the wheel. I am afraid the structure holding the wheels proves to be too weak for the full model, so might have to reinforce that later on. XL motor's spot is up for the debate. It will probably end 2 studs lower. Gear ratio at the moment is 1:1 (I think), not sure which way I am going to go with that since the XL is known to break gears and axles Battle tank crab steering mode. My model won't make 360+ turns with the wheels, nor even 180 degrees for 2 reasons - 360+ I am not feeling because of the wires getting tangled up - 180 degrees isn't going to really work with the servo. I want to use the servo for snappy steering like the real thing. The liftarm for the steering is a stud closer to the middle of the car than i'd like, but this was the spot to at least get a 100-120 degree turn. One servo will function as a gearbox between the different driving modes while the other servo just steers. I chose this setup to be able to switch quickly between steering modes, just like in the game. Lights had to be used on this model. I am still looking for a way to get the lights to turn red when he enters battle mode, but I don't know where or how (open for suggestions). The reason the rear doesn't have 3 lights on the wheel (does ingame), is because these are rarely shown (battle mode only, and only with the wheel at an angle). In case you wonder about some angles in this model. Pretty early in the build I lost track of what's 100% clean so I just began testing stuff by fixing a liftarm on 1 side and lining it up with the hole I wanted to use on the other end. If I could spin an axle freely in this hole, I gave it the thumbs up, if not, back to looking for another solution. One funny spot on the model where there is pressure, is at the rear, thanks to the freaking 12L soft axles, which quite frankly aren't acting so soft! If the soft axles aren't locked into to place the triangle above the rear lights aren't pushed into the 5x7 panles on the top, they push them slightly in when they are connected Some panels are only fixed in 1 spot, to give them room to move slightly around another panel/axle/liftarm if needed. I noticed a little late that some photo's are a little blurry, sorry, will check it next time. Next up: the actual chassis.

Very nice, cool little model. I am wondering where the front bumper is though? I don't know if that was a design choice or it's just missing in the pictures? Seems a little empty below the grill to me.

I know right. Thanks Erik for giving an explanation for something I gave up trying to. Anyway the best method I think with the least amount of time/trouble is to have a solid idea for the A-model and then have a general idea of what you want the B-model to be and functions, so you can already figure out what big parts and gears go where on the B-model. Tl;dr: design both models at the same time.

Yes, there was. And if you have alot of sets or not shouldn't matter to answer the simple question: what would TLG do? (which is the mindset for this competition since it is in the rules) Even from reading only reviews or viewing images of sets you can see the B-Models don't hide buckets or wheels.