Gallardo Instructions

[Anio]

How about the idea of a world price, which I have seen before in the OSS world.

The idea is that Blakbird would make an estimate of the value of the time spent to make the instructions (the world price), and nominates a unit price (i.e. $25) for the instructions. Once the cumulative sales of instructions add up to the world price, or a specified period of time has elapsed, he would then release them into the public domain. That way Blakbird doesn't make profit from them, which he has said is not his intent, and the relevant sector of the LEGO community effectively sponsor the development of something valuable that otherwise wouldn't have been done.

my tuppence,

Richard

Good idea. :)

Otherwise, you give it for free. And you write in the instruction that you spent a lot of time to do it. So, you would appreciate to get a "reward" with your paypal account. People give what they want. So, everybody can get it. And those who think that this work deserve a "reward" can give some money.

For example, 2 years ago I built the FSB002. Instruction was free. I was willing to give money to Fivestarbrick (the one who did the instruction). Unfortunately, I never managed to contact him.

I think it is a good compromise.

[Dannnohhh]

I'm also more then okay with paying for instructions for something like this. Way beyond Crowkiller giving us awesome hints with the more then detailed pics of the Gallardo.

I like that Blackbird wants to share his reverse engineering and time consuming result, that Crowkiller is in on it and the instructions help him sell the ebay kit.

Crowkiller didnt start building insane technic mocs just yesterday, nor did Blackbird produce the instructions without major time, experience, etc. There are very few equivalent examples available on BS for free, the main ones I can think of got NK a job at TLG (an abreviated assumption on my part, not to disavow NK's engineering skills and other attributes needed to actually get paid for building LEGO, but you get the point...)

Anyway selling the instructions seperate from the custom kit is an awesome idea, as I'd like to support the effort but rarely need to order more then the new or one-off'd parts from BL.

And I'd order the instructions right now but already received the needed parts from BL and I'm looking forward to the challenge of figuring out how to replicate Crowkillers build with just the BS pics as others have done here (glad to know its do-able). I'll either (need to ) buy the instructions for problem solving or after the build just to support the effort and hope it repeats.

[Conchas]

I didn't find the pool to vote, but would like to say I see no problem at all, with Paul and Eric selling the instructions.

Even if it was not the case, there are detailed photos online. So everyone could try to reproduce the design and Paul's work!

Already a very good offer and willingness for sharing.

If someone wants detailed and professional looking instructions, why not to pay a small ammount for those who have put an huge effort producing them?

In the essence here, there is shared work for those who do not want to pay and there is a small payment for those who want a value added service which certainly took a tremendous of work.

So don't see where is the room for complaining here.

In the end we are talking about small money!... but even if we wasn't.

I'd be happy if Eric and Paul could become rich with this work. ;)

[Dannnohhh]

For example, 2 years ago I built the FSB002. Instruction was free. I was willing to give money to Fivestarbrick (the one who did the instruction). Unfortunately, I never managed to contact him.

I think it is a good compromise.

I also built and tried contributing for Fivestarbrick's work. I read back then on one of the other forums that he didnt charge for the FSB001 instructions only because of the steering and stripped gear issues. I've wanted to mod his design into a track-based PF bobcat ever since the 8275. Another tehnic project and not enough time, looks like I'd pay for such instructions in a heartbeat (and still not have the time to build)

[darksheep]

i will buy the instructions once i order the parts i order the parts :)

[TechnicJuan]

Wait a minute... What if Blakbird says "Ok once I sell 50 instruction downloads, I will THEN offer them for free"

I am sorry, but if I was one of the first 50 to purchase them, I would be more than a little upset if I then found out that they were free a month later. This is just a stupid idea and will cause more harm than good. crowkillers actually has a good idea with buying them for a Christmas gift.

[Jetro]

I believe it's perfectly allright to sell the instructions. I know how much time goes into making them and on more than one occasion I would almost have paid to have someone do some of mine for me.

As for selling for a time and then after you get you return 'donating' them to the world at large, I very strongly believe you shouldn't. In my experience people who propose this kind of things are the ones who will wait until they are available for free or try to get them through emule or similar. They don't mind any artist making money as long as they are not doing the paying but have access to the work itself.

[rgbrown]

As for selling for a time and then after you get you return 'donating' them to the world at large, I very strongly believe you shouldn't. In my experience people who propose this kind of things are the ones who will wait until they are available for free or try to get them through emule or similar. They don't mind any artist making money as long as they are not doing the paying but have access to the work itself.

I'm sure Jetro wasn't intending to cast aspersions on my person , but just in case I'd better clarify my position. Personally, I have no objection to Blakbird selling instructions, even for profit. It's a legitimate means of making money, although if intended as a money-making venture there are probably some issues regarding whether it is appropriate to advertise here. I for one, will not be buying the instructions. I don't have the parts, nor can I afford them right now.

However, from what he has said Blakbird is simply trying to recoup some of the costs of developing a resource that is valuable to the community, but not so much to him personally. He has already contributed enormously to the community, gratis, and I'm guessing that he hasn't any philosophical objection to releasing the instructions to the world at large, except that it is really not worth his while. (I know the value of time - I have four preschoolers, there's no way I could invest dozens of hours in a project that didn't have some kind of realisable benefit to me)

All I was doing was putting this model of selling out there, as an example of something I've seen used successfully before (www.tramy.us) -- the website explains the philosophy too. I was not recommending Blakbird necessarily adopt this strategy. In fact, there are a few reasons why it may not be appropriate here:

• The unit price is moderately high, leading to purchasers feeling "ripped off" when it becomes freely available
  
• There may not be sufficient demand to sell enough copies at a lower price to recoup the expense
  
• It really needs to be specified that it's being done this way from the outset so everyone understands what's going on
  

The issue remains, though: there are numerous talented people in the Technic community who can contribute resources that are highly valuable to the community at large, but that would need financial support to do be able to do so. How best to achieve this? As has been evidenced by this thread, there are people who are willing to front up money for quality resources, so it would be awesome if an acceptable solution could be devised.

By the way, since I'm writing in this somewhat provocative way and since none of you know who I am, I should semi-introduce myself so as not to be rude. I'm a mathematician in New Zealand, and I'm just getting back into Technic for the first time since childhood (my last set was acquired when I was 9 - the flex system universal set). I find this community, and the quality of the MOCs amazing -- I've been lurking invisible in the forums for quite some time. Blakbird's Technicopedia is an incredible resource, and he deserves all the support the community can give him.

phew :)

[CP5670]

It's worth noting that there may be reasons to make instructions other than sharing your MOC with others. I used to make instructions for my own purposes more than anything else. I wanted to be able to disassemble my MOCs and put them back together later on. I used the instructions like this once, when I was rebuilding a MOC from the ground up to update some things in it.

By the way, since I'm writing in this somewhat provocative way and since none of you know who I am, I should semi-introduce myself so as not to be rude. I'm a mathematician in New Zealand, and I'm just getting back into Technic for the first time since childhood (my last set was acquired when I was 9 - the flex system universal set).

Cool, I'm a math grad student myself.

[DLuders]

I just downloaded Blakbird's PDF instructions for the Lamborghini Gallardo. The renderings are of very high quality, and make building the model a lot easier than deciphering photos on Brickshelf. How many cool Technic creations have you seen, and folks ask for the INSTRUCTIONS to build them? We should be thanking Blakbird for taking the time to share his creation with others, and not giving him a hassle. Talented builders like Sariel (and others like him) don't have the time (or interest) to make instructions. Blakbird offers a service to the hobby, and paying for his TIME is not unreasonable.

[gladiator]

I just downloaded Blakbird's PDF instructions for the Lamborghini Gallardo. The renderings are of very high quality, and make building the model a lot easier than deciphering photos on Brickshelf. How many cool Technic creations have you seen, and folks ask for the INSTRUCTIONS to build them? We should be thanking Blakbird for taking the time to share his creation with others, and not giving him a hassle. Talented builders like Sariel (and others like him) don't have the time (or interest) to make instructions. Blakbird offers a service to the hobby, and paying for his TIME is not unreasonable.

I agree with you, I seen the instruction. Yes, better than expected. Really great job from Blackbird.

[Alldarker]

I have no problems at all with people selling their MOC designs. I have bought both instructions and complete MOC kits from the likes of BrickMania, BrickGun and MechanizedBrick, in the knowledge that these people actually make part or the whole of their income from their artistry and time. But even when people sell their designs without being dependant on the income, they have the absolute right to do so. Remember, no-one is forcing you to buy these designs!

I fully endorse Blakbird's rights to ask whatever he wants for sharing these instructions.

Selling other people's designs (on eBay and the like) without permission from / compensation to the original designer, however, is of course despicable. Whenever I come across those I usually try to notify the original designer so he can get the seller or the site to remove those designs.

Edited December 10, 2009 by Alldarker

[boatbuoy]

I also wouldn't have a problem paying for some of the instructions. I'm amazed when I see people put instructions up for free. They are so open to abuse from further selling on ebay etc. I would jump at the chance to get step by step instructions for some of Jennifer Clarks models.

[Jetro]

I'm sure Jetro wasn't intending to cast aspersions on my person

Thanks you for not taking this personally ;)

[Shlomi Gondabi]

Can I buy the model by wire money transfer? eBay is not an option for me since I do not have a credit card....

[TechnicJuan]

Can I buy the model by wire money transfer? eBay is not an option for me since I do not have a credit card....

Why don't you just e-mail crowkillers? He has been selling full kits.

[gotoAndLego]

On a side note, what are you guys using to make the instructions?

[Blakbird]

On a side note, what are you guys using to make the instructions?

I built the electronic CAD file in MLCAD using LDraw parts. I used LPub to make the instructions using LDView as the renderer. I made the high quality renders for the cover pages with POV-Ray. Total development time start to finish was a couple of hundred hours, not counting the time Paul took to design the model in the first place.

Lest anyone think I made a bunch of money, in the final analysis I made about $0.25 USD per hour for my work. This, my friends, is why almost no one makes instructions for large models.

[DLuders]

Nevertheless, we appreciate the efforts of Blakbird and Crowkillers to make the special Gallardo MOC. We know that you didn't do it "for the money". Heck, Lego Technic is an expensive hobby anyway. Folks know that you enjoy rendering special models like this one -- your work is unequalled. Thanks!

Edited March 23, 2010 by dluders

[Blakbird]

Nevertheless, we appreciate the efforts of Blakbird and Crowkillers to make the special Gallardo MOC. We know that you didn't do it "for the money". Heck, Lego Technic is an expensive hobby anyway. Folks know that you enjoy rendering special models like this one -- your work is unequalled. Thanks!

Thanks for the thanks! I was not complaining. I really enjoyed working on this model and I'd probably be willing to do it again if I found a model that properly motivated me. Who knows what may occur in the future. At this very moment I am working on a render of a model that has almost 300,000 pieces and required 20 Gb of RAM to parse! No, there will not be instructions. You are right, I do enjoy a challenge.

[JunkstyleGio]

Making a render of a 300,000 piece model?

Wouldn't it be better just to take some good and hi-def pictures?

anyway: can't wait to see the result!

[Meatman]

Lest anyone think I made a bunch of money, in the final analysis I made about $0.25 USD per hour for my work. This, my friends, is why almost no one makes instructions for large models.

You mean you and Paul were not splitting the profits equally? Did you guys have a falling out or something? By his feedback It looks to me that he has sold quite a few on ebay.

[Enilder]

Thanks for the thanks! I was not complaining. I really enjoyed working on this model and I'd probably be willing to do it again if I found a model that properly motivated me. Who knows what may occur in the future. At this very moment I am working on a render of a model that has almost 300,000 pieces and required 20 Gb of RAM to parse! No, there will not be instructions. You are right, I do enjoy a challenge.

Can you at least share your rendering once it's finished? I'd love to see that! You do an awesome work!

[Blakbird]

Can you at least share your rendering once it's finished? I'd love to see that! You do an awesome work!

I've already completed it. The guy who made the original model will be putting it on Mocpages shortly. Note that it is not a Technic model.

[Enilder]

I've already completed it. The guy who made the original model will be putting it on Mocpages shortly. Note that it is not a Technic model.

Will he be posting here or somewhere else? Just wondering :)