Gallardo Instructions

[Blakbird]

Some of you may remember the thread about the modern looking Lamborghini Gallardo created by Crowkillers. Some others of you who were paying very close attention managed to notice that I posted some computer renders of this model at my Brickshelf page. It doesn't take a huge leap of logic to realize that this means I reverse engineered the model from Crow's photos and built an LDraw file from scratch (with some help from Paul himself in a few areas I couldn't quite make out on the photos). A few others guessed that I had actually created full instructions for this model, which I have! This is now obvious since Paul is selling kits of his model on eBay along with the instructions. I've received a couple of queries about the possibility of buying the instructions and, having discussed it with Paul, I think I just might do that.

I know some people will disagree with the prospect of making money on LEGO, but given the hundreds of hours needed to make the LDraw model and instructions do people think it is reasonable to charge $25 for a set of instructions for a model of this size? Anyone who might be interested, feel free to send me a PM. The Gallardo model itself is fantastic and easily a match for the Ferrari Enzo and Fiorino models officially released. There are about 1500 parts and the instructions are 67 pages.

[rgbrown]

I know some people will disagree with the prospect of making money on LEGO, but given the hundreds of hours needed to make the LDraw model and instructions do people think it is reasonable to charge $25 for a set of instructions for a model of this size?

It is absolutely reasonable, what an epic job!

[gladiator]

wow, I want it...

I want it ... the Lamborghini is very cool, excellent job!

can I download the instructions? I think charge $25 is fair, and I don't hesitate to pay it.

[Burf2000]

I dont see it as wrong to charge for your time and I will buy some instructions in the near future when i know I got most the parts

[TechnicJuan]

Now we get instructions I built my model just from looking at pictures on brickshelf. I probably have made an error or 2 though. I can concur that the model is indeed fantastic and could easily be a release from the Lego company(Which I would love to see in yellow ) I emailed crowkillers about instructions a few days ago and he said that he needed to discuss it with you, so I guess it's a go now. Are you both selling them? You have them for download? That is awesome. I would like to get a copy also and only $25 is a good deal. There are quite a few parts on this model that are a little pricey. I suggest that anyone who wants to build this model buy the new crane truck first as most of the needed parts are easy to get in that set. Props to both of you!

[Blakbird]

Now we get instructions I built my model just from looking at pictures on brickshelf. I probably have made an error or 2 though. I can concur that the model is indeed fantastic and could easily be a release from the Lego company(Which I would love to see in yellow ) I emailed crowkillers about instructions a few days ago and he said that he needed to discuss it with you, so I guess it's a go now. Are you both selling them? You have them for download? That is awesome. I would like to get a copy also and only $25 is a good deal. There are quite a few parts on this model that are a little pricey. I suggest that anyone who wants to build this model buy the new crane truck first as most of the needed parts are easy to get in that set. Props to both of you!

To clarify, what I would be offering is a link to my server where you can download the file. This way I don't need to make CDs and bother with shipping. Just send me a message whenever you are ready.

[Anio]

OMFG !!

People have to pay to get the instructions... ??!? @_@

Lego community is strange...

Edited December 8, 2009 by Anio

[Burf2000]

OMFG !!

People have to pay to get the instructions... ??!? @_@

Lego community is strange...

Well he did spend a shed load of hours building it, hey i would love if they are free but if we pay he might make more and more!

[Milan]

We already had these discussion about selling Lego...General idea is to share new ideas with community for free, and in return, be able to use other people ideas for free, except if they strictly forbid it...

Personally I don't mind people selling instruction, but it goes somehow against "share the ideas".

[Anio]

General idea is to share new ideas with community for free, and in return, be able to use other people ideas for free

Absolutely right !

I designed two UCS MOCs. I spent many hours.

Oxycrest, a friend, spent at least twice as much time to make a professional intructions : his instructions are like TLG's one.

And we never have had the idea to force people to pay to get these instructions... (we haven't even discuss about this possibility)

I really can't understand... Unless you prefer money than recognition...

That's just sad...

Edited December 8, 2009 by Anio

[Blakbird]

I understand the sensitivity of this topic and I thought about it quite a bit before coming to a decision.

You could make the same statement about TLG. Lots of people say they wish models were cheaper. Or if you look at the survey results you will see comments like "I wish the UCS Millenium Falcon was $20". Well sure, I wish that too, but in the end TLG is a business and if they did something like that they would cease to exist and we wouldn't get any LEGO at all.

I am NOT a business and I believe in giving as much back to the community for free as possible. My Technicopedia web site is free despite the considerable time it takes to write it and the considerable bandwidth required to host it. I don't even have ads. I've also made a number of free instructions before. But I can only spend so much time on this hobby before it becomes a financial problem to the rest of my life. I can't keep doing something which takes as much time as instructions unless I get some kind of return. I'm not looking to make money, just cover the time. This is why I posted this topic to see what people think. If people think it is wrong to charge for instructions, that's fine. I can respect that opinion and it just means I won't be able to spend the time making any more. If people think this type of project is valuable enough to pay for, that's great too and I'll likely take that queue to make some more in the future.

I also think instructions are different than MOCs. When you make a MOC, you are making it for yourself for fun and it is no problem to share pictures of it with others and answer questions about technique, etc.. But when you make instructions, they are NOT for yourself and you investing time ONLY to show other people how to replicate something. This is only valuable if people WANT to replicate it and really has no value to the author.

I'm keeping track of the votes.

[TechnicJuan]

Excuse me, but doesn't crowkillers have some pretty detailed pictures of the building process already in his brickshelf folder? If you guys want to go by that, then go right ahead, I did and built my own model. But I would have loved to have had a parts list of some kind and also instructions would have been really great. I think crowkillers has shared quite a bit of ideas over the years, and I have seen quite a few of them that people have been passing off as their own design(Talk about recognition )

What about the current auction where crowkillers is selling a full unassembled kit for the car with instructions? Is that wrong too? I can't Imagine how many hours it would take to make instructions only to give them away for free. That is just silly.

[Milan]

This is really a sensitive theme, and...there will always be discussions about its righteousness.

It is completely your choice, but then why is Technicopedia free, if it takes time for creating it???

I think we all know the answer - because you love doing that, and you have your name-Blakbird, which is famous because of the Tchnicopedia, and your name associates to the great site which offers great Technic stuff, and not because you are selling instructions...

I know how time consuming making a instructions can be, i have many of them of my models, but only if you want to make it like pro...if you choose to build the instructions in MlCad, it would be much faster and ultimately cheaper, if not free.

As I said, I do not mind selling, my vote for this neutral, if you choose to sell it, it is fine for me!

[Anio]

"I wish the UCS Millenium Falcon was $20".

Yeah, but this kind of request is just stupid.

You can ask to have fair prices (example : on Klocki : right prices for right builders), but it is nonsense to ask a 10179 for $20. -_-

My Technicopedia web site is free despite the considerable time it takes to write it and the considerable bandwidth required to host it. I don't even have ads. I've also made a number of free instructions before.

That is your honor.

But I can only spend so much time on this hobby before it becomes a financial problem to the rest of my life.

But if it becomes a financial problem, just don't do it anymore ! ;)

Moreover, it does not concern me, but it is hard to believe that you have financial problems with the large quantity of sets you have (all the Technic sets, I guess it worth more than $10000). ;)

I'm not looking to make money, just cover the time. If people think it is wrong to charge for instructions, that's fine. I can respect that opinion and it just means I won't be able to spend the time making any more. If people think this type of project is valuable enough to pay for, that's great too and I'll likely take that queue to make some more in the future.

That means that if you have money you have time, and if you don't have money, you don't have time. Strange, isn't it ? ;)

This is only valuable if people WANT to replicate it and really has no value to the author.

You get recognition. By far the most important, IMO.

[Ralph_S]

I get asked for instructions for my models on a regular basis and I always turn down such requests. Not because I don't want to share, but because I'd basically be spending a hell of a lot lot of time and effort making something that I myself haven't got any use for and in return for nothing whatsoever. I think asking for money in return for making instructions isn't at all unreasonable.

Cheers,

Ralph

[Meatman]

I don't see a problem with selling instructions for a model if they are yours and designed by you. Now if you are trying to sell someone else's or copies of Actual Lego ones, well that is just plain wrong. It is about as wrong to sell instructions as it is for CrowK to sell his cars. As far as it being "Politically" correct to not do that, well that is your choice.

Anio you seem very bitter about this subject, but I am not exactly sure why. Just because you gave away something for free that means that everyone should do that? I would gladly pay for instructions that someone spent their hard time designing. That is if the model IMO was worth building. And I think this is one example where the model is in fact worth it. In fact I think The Lego Company should pick up on this design.

CrowK gave me some hard to find parts for free. I almost feel obligated to buy these instructions now. If you think that Blakbird is in the wrong, that is just your opinion. Some of these guys are doing quite a bit for the Lego community and I have no problem with them getting a taste of the profits.

[Anio]

I would gladly pay for instructions that someone spent their hard time designing.

But I think that the one who do an instruction should be glad to give it.

It is sad to see that today we have to pay for everything we get. :(

[rgbrown]

How about the idea of a world price, which I have seen before in the OSS world.

The idea is that Blakbird would make an estimate of the value of the time spent to make the instructions (the world price), and nominates a unit price (i.e. $25) for the instructions. Once the cumulative sales of instructions add up to the world price, or a specified period of time has elapsed, he would then release them into the public domain. That way Blakbird doesn't make profit from them, which he has said is not his intent, and the relevant sector of the LEGO community effectively sponsor the development of something valuable that otherwise wouldn't have been done.

my tuppence,

Richard

Edited December 8, 2009 by rgbrown

[TechnicJuan]

I have a question for Blakbird that I don't think is out of line since he created this topic. Have you received any compensation what so ever from crowkillers? Or are you splitting profits with him? I noticed on his website that he too is selling the instructions for the same price VIA Paypal, but it appears that he is selling off the CD version of it. He is giving you credit for designing them and provides links to your own website.

[Blakbird]

I have a question for Blakbird that I don't think is out of line since he created this topic. Have you received any compensation what so ever from crowkillers? Or are you splitting profits with him? I noticed on his website that he too is selling the instructions for the same price VIA Paypal, but it appears that he is selling off the CD version of it. He is giving you credit for designing them and provides links to your own website.

Without going into details, I will just say that he and I have worked out the arrangement.

[gladiator]

Please respect to Blackbird,

If you want to make this car easily, and need instructions , pay it. Simple as that., and I did it !

IMO, I am definitely agree with :

"I also think instructions are different than MOCs. When you make a MOC, you are making it for yourself for fun and it is no problem to share pictures of it with others and answer questions about technique, etc.. But when you make instructions, they are NOT for yourself and you investing time ONLY to show other people how to replicate something."

[warpug]

I'm all for having the opportunity to buy the instructions. Even though I would love to reverse-engineer the Gallardo from pictures, I don't have the time to spend on a project like that. Having a chance to buy the instructions is great and puts the project within my grasp. I don't think charging for instructions is wrong or unethical. I suppose Anio is concerned that the Lego community we have here is being commercialized. However, I view it as an opportunity for some of the stars of our community to be compensated for their efforts to and to encourage them to continue to invest significant time and energy into producing things we all can appreciate.

[grepin]

As most who have commented here, I think it's fair to sell the instructions you make.

Regardless of who created the model, it's a fact that while building the model you're enjoying yourself, but creating instructions can be an incredibly boring task which doesn't really bring much of a benefit to whoever makes them - I know I wouldn't venture into that!

Although for me $25 seems a bit pricey, it's evident that some people are more than willing to pay that amount for those instructions, which of course can't be too cheap because of the complexity of the model and the time required to make them. Still, I don't really know what could be considered a 'fair' price, as I don't know how long it took to make them.

So, I don't think I'll buy those instructions in the near future (don't have enough parts anyway), but the choice is surely much welcomed.

[CP5670]

I have no problem with this, especially if Crowkillers has agreed to it. I can appreciate the amount of work it takes to assemble such instructions, as I used to make them myself once but haven't done so in years. I hardly find time to build the actual MOCs these days, never mind the instructions. Technic models are especially time consuming to make in MLCad because it frequently doesn't align Technic connections properly and you have to do it manually, although we now have SR3D and it's a big improvement here.

That being said, I probably wouldn't pay for this particular model's instructions. The appearance is fantastic, but the functionality is fairly basic especially for its size.

[TechnicJuan]

I agree that the functions are pretty basic. There are some slick design features in the model. Most can be seen from the pictures that crowkillers provided, so instructions really are not needed. The Impressive AWD combined with the excellent steering all compacted into this model made it worth building for me. It is really a solid model. This is currently my favorite Piece that I own.