42146 - Liebherr LR13000

[Aleh]

I will investigate the purchase of this set to turn it into Liebherr LR13000, luckily I have some experience in building crawler cranes. At least change the oval shape of the tracks, change hook, add additional counterweights (not on the superstructure).
But not making it taller, because this will work against playability and lifting capacity. If to build only for shelf.

[Maaboo the Witch]

18 minutes ago, Snorrowitz said:

I keep on seeing this argument, but it really didn't take me long to find this image. Same boom config, same red accents...

It's not about the colours, or the configuration; it's the boom length, or lack thereof. Much of the general bewilderment here stems from the fact that TLG bothered to design this set given that the scale is utterly wrong.

[Unbrickme]

I strike again! Personally I think it's a phenomenal set. Its proportions don't bother me at all. However, it has other REAL problems, like those supporting white balls, the tracks snapping off while turning around, and those counterweights not being attached at all to the crane.

 

[Ngoc Nguyen]

The claim that it's worth 700$ is only valid if you had actually spent your own money to buy one. Otherwise, you have no skin in the game and that claim has no merit.

Edited July 26, 2023 by Ngoc Nguyen

[Snorrowitz]

50 minutes ago, Maaboo35 said:

It's not about the colours, or the configuration; it's the boom length, or lack thereof. Much of the general bewilderment here stems from the fact that TLG bothered to design this set given that the scale is utterly wrong.

I get that people are disappointed about the short boom lenghts. One tall boom without luffing jib would have been more realistic, but the jib offers a lot of cool functionality. i think this is an understandable compromise to keep this functionality, while still having a reasonable stable crane. It is also not that unrealistic. I've seen one with shorter booms used for a heavy lift, not very high, but at some distance. 

The choice for counterweight placement does seem weird. I guess it's also to keep stability, without adding a second weight pack, but it looks off.

Personally, if i ever buy the set (this will only happen with substantial discounts), i would use the parts for the jib  to extend the two booms and add a custom build jib. I would also place the counterweight closer to the center and add a second weight behind the crane.

Edited July 26, 2023 by Snorrowitz
Spelling

[Mr Jos]

13 minutes ago, Unbrickme said:

I strike again! Personally I think it's a phenomenal set. Its proportions don't bother me at all. However, it has other REAL problems, like those supporting white balls, the tracks snapping off while turning around, and those counterweights not being attached at all to the crane.

 

Love that you show it turning in the water and through those stones haha. And to clean the white balls in the rear, put one of those long frames on the ball assembly, and play whack-a-mole. It will come out flying, find the ball on the floor, clean it and put it back in.

About the weight measurement being 'easy' to make it to kg, it's not. There's a lot of mathematics needed, yes Lego could have done it, but it's not straightforward like 7° tilt = 512gram. You need to use the current angle of every boom part, height of the object (so you will need to give in the size) and calculate the position of this object together with the mass of the crane in this position. A 500g object lifted close by the tracks will give a small tilt, the same object far away lifted up will give a much larger tilt. For every position in between you would need to calculate constantly if you want to show it on screen.

The speed of all functions are pretty fast it seems! (And nice torture tests!)

[nerdsforprez]

24 minutes ago, Unbrickme said:

Its proportions don't bother me at all.

I know that folks think we are being to hard on this fella.   However, I rarely see a post where he is not just throwing up his videos or responding to other's comments about his videos.   Not trying to be hard on him, I just really don't want EB to become a medium for self-promotion.   I thought we had rules against this stuff. 

I am in no position to say it is getting out of hand.... but as a consumer of this forum, I certainly wonder if that is not the case.  

 

 

 

Edited July 26, 2023 by nerdsforprez

[Mr Jos]

15 minutes ago, nerdsforprez said:

 Not trying to be hard on him, I just really don't want EB to become a medium for self-promotion.   I thought we had rules against this stuff. 

I am in no position to say it is getting out of hand.... but as a consumer of this forum, I certainly wonder if that is not the case.  

Fair to take all other reviews in this mindset then, his wasn't the first one posted here (I think 3rd or 4th review video so far?) I do have to say I would agree with you IF each reviewer made their OWN post about each set. Not like here, it's posted in the 'group' post for a set, for me it does fit in here and doesn't bother me at all.

I did watch all of them, and have to say in each one I learned new things about this set. From Unbrickme's video I learned that even in the lower structure there are a ton of frames, and not only the 'few' new frames in the booms make the price skyrocket. It does look like a good parts package if the price will lower a bit more.

But let's see what happens tomorrow. The embargo time is at 10am, then I can post my new model/MOD here and on Rebrickable, if it's as usual getting 0 replies, then EB answers your question itself, and they like just controversy and talk about that.

Edited July 26, 2023 by Mr Jos

[nerdsforprez]

21 minutes ago, Mr Jos said:

Fair to take all other reviews in this mindset then

I disagree.  If you look at my comment i specify why.  Others offer meaningful dialogue, etc. to their posts, and plenty of content NOT relating to their videos.  Take @kbalage for example's posts.  He offers much more dialogue, community-involvement, etc. than just posting his content.  Sariel doesn't even post here anymore, and videos of his are posted by others.  

Obviously nothing wrong with posting one's content here on EB.  I do it when I have something meaningful to contribute.    But if that is ALL you do, and offer little other contribution, then I think it walks a fine line of what is allowed here.  

Edited July 26, 2023 by nerdsforprez

[Mr Jos]

1 minute ago, nerdsforprez said:

I disagree.  If you look at my comment i specify why.  Others offer meaningful dialogue, etc. to their posts, and plenty of content NOT relating to their videos.  Take @racingbrick for example's posts.  He offers much more dialogue, community-involvement, etc. than just posting his content.  Sariel doesn't even post here anymore, and videos of his are posted by others.  

Obviously nothing wrong with posting one's content here on EB.  I do it when I have something meaningful to post.  But if that is ALL you do, and offer little other contribution, then I think it walks a fine line of what is allowed here.  

Ok, I get what you mean now, after just watching the activity logs. It's no responses to others their content indeed. Or some loose communications. But I did remark some things from @Unbrickme video just a little before, so need to give it some time to reply like @kbalage did. He did reply on youtube comments when I asked something, so it's not just bringing out content and no connection with the public. But maybe a bit extra community-involvement on EB, when using EB as a podium as well wouldn't be to bad. But as I said before, that goes for more people than only these 'big fishes'.

[Glaysche]

@Unbrickme's video is content relevant to this discussion.  It is completely appropriate for him to post it here.  I would not have seen it if he hadn't posted and I found it useful.  Even if he doesn't make any other posts except for a link to his video, it is still useful, relevant, and appropriate.

[kbalage]

2 hours ago, Snorrowitz said:

I keep on seeing this argument, but it really didn't take me long to find this image. Same boom config, same red accents...

Same dark grey masts, same counterweight configuration, same boom / superstructure size ratio, actually same everything vs everything ratio. Oh wait...:)

I don't think people are complaining about the configuration. Yes, you're right, there may be a similarly configured LR 13000 out there. The problem is the proportions, and even the photos in the manual don't look like the LEGO version. If you compare a real Liebherr R 9800 with the LEGO version, at least the main proportions are right, but nothing is really right with this set. 42146 is a massive and surprisingly capable toy crawler crane (with more, much more counterweight), but it's no LR 13000. They should have just chosen another, smaller Liebherr model, but it would have been best to release it without a license.

[pleegwat]

My thoughts on modding:

• Replace the rear boom with a beam-built version (since I suspect that can take the extra weight)
• Use the freed up girder segments to lengthen the main boom (possibly also one on the jib)
• Move the plastic counterweight to the superstructure
• Move the trolley out a bit. Build a box and fill it with non-lego counterweight.

The problem with this concept is that I only own 5 of the 16l link elements without counting what comes in this set. And those are red. I'd have to resort to using beams instead.

[aminnich]

I am not sure that video was a review... did anyone else plan on taking their crane through the stream and playing in the sand?  I am sure some kids are going to get this set and do whatever they want with it... but I do not think there are many kids on this forum...  If anyone here actually does buy the set (even after sale prices) they will be displaying it and/or modifying it to look like an actual LR13000.

Kbalage's video is 10/10; informative and truly showed off the features of the build.... I had to stop the latest video because of the loose counterweight "issue"..... who is going to balance their model on a rock half the size of the track footprint?!!?  Maybe someone with more crane experience can help me... do the counter weights on an actual LR13000 connect together somehow OR do they just stack on top of each other.  I can see pros and cons to doing both. 

I think video posts for self promotion really needs to be evaluated for what is acceptable for AFOL forums. Just my 2 cents. 

[gyenesvi]

It’s nice to see in @Unbrickme‘s video how much the crane relies on regular frames as well. I’d actually be tempted to think that the 3x19 frames were also developed with this model in mind, but were used earlier in other sets, especially if the crane was originally really scheduled for last year. In other sets the 3x19 frames come handy, but I never felt that they were actually really irreplacable. In this one I could believe that much more.

Another interesting thought I had is if the booms had a 5x5 cross section instead, the whole crane could become more proportional at the current height (of course the base itself would have to be thinned down as well). Now for a 5x5 cross section, something like the new 5x11 frame plus the 3x19 frame could be used maybe. I wonder if that’s how it all actually started with such better proportions, and then that proved weak and they widened it to 7x7 to make it stronger. I could actually imagine that to be more plausible than startig a 1.5m height and then reducing it, because such a height would be impractical as an official set even if it was stable, they’d probably know that beforehand.

Do you guys think that a strong/stable crane with 5x5 cross section could be built from the existing frame parts?

[Milan]

1 hour ago, aminnich said:

Maybe someone with more crane experience can help me... do the counter weights on an actual LR13000 connect together somehow OR do they just stack on top of each other.  I can see pros and cons to doing both.

On most, probably even on all, crawler and mobile cranes, counterweights are connected and secured together via pin-like elements and holes.
On LR13000:

Single counterweight (note the pins at the bottom):

Stacked:

 

1 hour ago, aminnich said:

I think video posts for self promotion really needs to be evaluated for what is acceptable for AFOL forums. Just my 2 cents. 

It's acceptable to post your own review videos in your topic or a shared discussion like this, as long as your intention is not solely to increase video views, meaning you should actively participate in the conversation and engage with others, not just post the video and wait until your next one.

[mdemerchant]

4 hours ago, Snorrowitz said:

I keep on seeing this argument, but it really didn't take me long to find this image. Same boom config, same red accents...

I have no idea why the complaints about the color.  I've seen the red boom tips in lots of photos and I'm fairly sure I've seen one somewhere with the grey bases as well but I could be mistaken.  But the crane configuration is definitely not a real one.  The jib is always used with the derrick counterweight according to Liebherr's technical manual and all photos I've ever seen.  Lego one doesn't have that counterweight and the mechanics around it at all.  Also the real crane has a hoist for adjusting the derrick angle, lego one has this fixed.  Real crane has a hydraulically adjustable A frame at the back, lego one is missing the entire frame let alone the adjustability.  Real crane has the jib adjustment winch in the derrick, lego one has it in the main superstructure.  Real crane doesn't have ballast supported by the ground, Lego one does (I understand why).  I could go on but anyone can easily go on the Liebherr web site and see for themselves.  There are lots of significant mechanical differences that do make this not remotely an authentic LR 13000.

Still seems a fun toy crane but not one I would personally be willing to pay anywhere near retail price for.  And certainly not one I would claim to be an LR 13000.

[nerdsforprez]

15 minutes ago, Milan said:

as long as your intention is not solely to increase video views, meaning you should actively participate in the conversation and engage with others, not just post the video and wait until your next one.

Which is the exact reason, as specified, for my comments about @Unbrickme's post.  I won't derail the conversation anymore, but this is really the essence of why I posted to begin with.  There is no evidence this is occurring.  

10 minutes ago, mdemerchant said:

Still seems a fun toy crane but not one I would personally be willing to pay anywhere near retail price for.  And certainly not one I would claim to be an LR 13000.

This perfectly summarizes my thoughts on the model.  Great example of some crawler crane.  Just not the model it claims to be.  This is akin to 42009 claiming to be a Liebherr LTM 11200.9 or something.  It just isn't so.  And the price doesn't match what you get out of it.  

Change the name, lower the price, and you have a fun, possibly even instructive set here.... 

[Danke]

4 hours ago, kbalage said:

Same dark grey masts, same counterweight configuration, same boom / superstructure size ratio, actually same everything vs everything ratio. Oh wait...:)

I don't think people are complaining about the configuration. Yes, you're right, there may be a similarly configured LR 13000 out there. The problem is the proportions, and even the photos in the manual don't look like the LEGO version. If you compare a real Liebherr R 9800 with the LEGO version, at least the main proportions are right, but nothing is really right with this set. 42146 is a massive and surprisingly capable toy crawler crane (with more, much more counterweight), but it's no LR 13000. They should have just chosen another, smaller Liebherr model, but it would have been best to release it without a license.

Personally, my main gripe with this set is that it looks like a prototype, it’s like they’ve given up and decided to send it at the last minute after doing some minor touch-ups. Lego is capable of releasing proper sets at this price range, but this is really half-assed, bafflingly so.

The Liebherr license here is worthless for authenticity, it’s only a sales driver.

I could look past this at a lower price point, but even at a discount i’m out. There’s just so much more LEGO i’d consider buying before i end up scraping the barrel.

In the end, it’s about what you get for the money, and this is nowhere near a 700€ set to me.

[Unbrickme]

4 hours ago, aminnich said:

I had to stop the latest video because of the loose counterweight "issue"..... who is going to balance their model on a rock half the size of the track footprint?!!?

The counterweights often fall off even on perfectly flat surfaces. That was just the first shot of that shown in my video. You pick up something heavy, turn the superstructure, the model tips sideways and the counterweights go falling off. There are plenty of other ways the counterweights always fall off. Or even if the superstructure gets stuck, then released, and the counterweights fall off.

6 hours ago, Mr Jos said:

Love that you show it turning in the water and through those stones haha. And to clean the white balls in the rear, put one of those long frames on the ball assembly, and play whack-a-mole. It will come out flying, find the ball on the floor, clean it and put it back in.

About the weight measurement being 'easy' to make it to kg, it's not. There's a lot of mathematics needed, yes Lego could have done it, but it's not straightforward like 7° tilt = 512gram. You need to use the current angle of every boom part, height of the object (so you will need to give in the size) and calculate the position of this object together with the mass of the crane in this position. A 500g object lifted close by the tracks will give a small tilt, the same object far away lifted up will give a much larger tilt. For every position in between you would need to calculate constantly if you want to show it on screen.

The speed of all functions are pretty fast it seems! (And nice torture tests!)

I’m glad you liked it, and thank you for explaining how to clean those white ball stabilizers. I also appreciated your explanation on making the set truly measure weight.

[aminnich]

17 minutes ago, Unbrickme said:

The counterweights often fall off even on perfectly flat surfaces. That was just the first shot of that shown in my video. You pick up something heavy, turn the superstructure, the model tips sideways and the counterweights go falling off. There are plenty of other ways the counterweights always fall off. Or even if the superstructure gets stuck, then released, and the counterweights fall off.

So why not show that? You always seem to exaggerate everything in your videos. Do you think the slew on the crane is geared too fast? 

[Unbrickme]

1 minute ago, aminnich said:

So why not show that? You always seem to exaggerate everything in your videos. Do you think the slew on the crane is geared too fast? 

The shot right after that one shows the counterweights falling off on a flat surface, but I actually appreciate you pointing that out and in future videos I’ll definitely try to avoid unrealistic play like putting it on a small rocks. And I definitely should’ve included more shots of that I’ll do my best not to make the same mistake.
 

Anyways, no I don’t think it’s geared too fast. It goes at a good speed for the set.  I feel like the superstructure motors have enough torque.

[aminnich]

4 minutes ago, Unbrickme said:

The shot right after that one shows the counterweights falling off on a flat surface, but I actually appreciate you pointing that out and in future videos I’ll definitely try to avoid unrealistic play like putting it on a small rocks. And I definitely should’ve included more shots of that I’ll do my best not to make the same mistake.
 

Anyways, no I don’t think it’s geared too fast. It goes at a good speed for the set.  I feel like the superstructure motors have enough torque.

If you are referring to 9:42 in the video, I would not categorize that as a normal play area. The roller got hung up on a rock causing the weights to fall off. 

Again… maybe the crane guys can answer this… but I’m sure the area around a crane is “groomed” to make the movement of the crane as smooth as possible.
I get it… this is just a toy… but consider the scale of that pebble at 1:1 scale with the model.

[Danil]

36 minutes ago, aminnich said:

If you are referring to 9:42 in the video, I would not categorize that as a normal play area. The roller got hung up on a rock causing the weights to fall off. 

Again… maybe the crane guys can answer this… but I’m sure the area around a crane is “groomed” to make the movement of the crane as smooth as possible.
I get it… this is just a toy… but consider the scale of that pebble at 1:1 scale with the model.

indeed, you are right. The site on which the crane will operate requires serious preparation, since a slope of one degree multiplied by the length of the boom can significantly change the load capacity in both directions, up to overturning.

[Unbrickme]

45 minutes ago, aminnich said:

but consider the scale of that pebble at 1:1 scale with the model.

That would not be a problem on the real crane since the real one does not have those white ball stabilizers