[Poll] Do you like LEGO as a company?

[Alexandrina]

15 hours ago, allanp said:

And everyone is awesome except if your a straight white male

I'd love to know where you got this impression from. Lego have certainly never made any statement to this effect.

The Everyone Is Awesome set was two things. First, it was a monofigs set (yay! rare minifigure parts!) and second, it was Lego voicing their support for the LGBTQ+ community. That's no more political than Captain America, you just think it is because it doesn't line up with your innate political viewpoints. It makes no commentary on straight white males whatsoever, but it's not exclusionary - not unless you also want to argue that sets featuring a national flag are exclusionary to people who aren't from that country.

15 hours ago, allanp said:

If they are so brave and bold why not sell the everyone is awesome set in Saudi Arabia?

It would literally be illegal. Source

And honestly, that only goes to show why Lego taking a political stance is sometimes necessary. Being LGBTQ+, or being a woman, or being any ethnicity other than white, is not political. Lego not taking a stance would be Lego being complicit in the mistreatment of these groups that is the reason they're controversial in the first place.

[williejm]

2 hours ago, Alexandrina said:

I'd love to know where you got this impression from. Lego have certainly never made any statement to this effect.

And honestly, that only goes to show why Lego taking a political stance is sometimes necessary. Being LGBTQ+, or being a woman, or being any ethnicity other than white, is not political. Lego not taking a stance would be Lego being complicit in the mistreatment of these groups that is the reason they're controversial in the first place.

Amen, sister. 

[MAB]

18 hours ago, allanp said:

No one ... actually believes everyone is awesome.

There is a set I'd buy. Not everyone is awesome. A rainbow of figures with colour matched guns, knives and baseball bats.

[koalayummies]

Well unlike the other member I think TLG should get more political. For example any set depicting healthcare, like a City theme hospital set, should show happy doctor Minifigures treating happy patient Minifigures... for the European market.

...But that very same numbered set sold in the United States should consist of a giant flaming underground bank vault exploding with 1x2 printed money tiles surrounded a pile of probably unhappy skeleton figures. That way each set is market-specific!

Now I'll place my vote saying yes, I like Lego as a company. But you could do better TLG! Just, think about my idea.

[Alexandrina]

48 minutes ago, koalayummies said:

like a City theme hospital set

Honestly just this part of your idea alone would be enough for me!

[Classic_Spaceman]

22 hours ago, allanp said:

And everyone is awesome except if your a straight white male, or a member of the Taliban, or a nazi, or.... 

I know that I should stay out of this, but are you actually saying that the Everyone is Awesome set is somehow comparing straight White males to the Taliban and the Nazis??? 
 

[Duvors]

44 minutes ago, Classic_Spaceman said:

I know that I should stay out of this, but are you actually saying that the Everyone is Awesome set is somehow comparing straight White males to the Taliban and the Nazis??? 

Then stay out. It's obviously a nonsensical strawman argument intended to 'troll' people and anyone who makes such statements are largely immune to computer-delivered arguments. Also, yes they are.

[BrickObsessed]

I have mixed thoughts.

Like: I like their products and the concept.

Dislikes:

1. Their supply chain sucks.

2. They are inconsistent in so many ways. Store policies, brick colors/quality, availability of products.

3. They are virtue-signaler. Does anyone actually believe Everyone is Awesome? All of us have someone we do not like. It's not always about race or gender.

4. They enable and encourage scalpers.

Edited September 23, 2021 by BrickObsessed

[Lego David]

On 9/22/2021 at 4:39 PM, Alexandrina said:

Lego not taking a stance would be Lego being complicit in the mistreatment of these groups that is the reason they're controversial in the first place.

Yeah, and at the same time those groups aren't even as mistreated as the Left-wing activists would want you to believe. And even when those "mistreatments" do happen, they are grossly exaggerated in order to comply with their political agenda. 

Those groups already have as much equal rights as everyone else, and those who are still asking for more want privileges, not rights. So LEGO not straight up coming up and voicing their support for them would in no way make them "complicit" in their mistreatment. Being a complicit means directly contributing to something. If you just choose to just simply stay out of a subject you know is divisive doesn't mean you support mistreatment of a particular group... It just means you are neutral in the matter. 

@allanp I very much agree with everything you said. Being inclusive is one thing, but straight up donating money to certain political organizations is a different story. 

 

[williejm]

21 minutes ago, Lego David said:

Yeah, and at the same time those groups aren't even as mistreated as the Left-wing activists would want you to believe. And even when those "mistreatments" do happen, they are grossly exaggerated in order to comply with their political agenda. 

Those groups already have as much equal rights as everyone else, and those who are still asking for more want privileges, not rights. So LEGO not straight up coming up and voicing their support for them would in no way make them "complicit" in their mistreatment. Being a complicit means directly contributing to something. If you just choose to just simply stay out of a subject you know is divisive doesn't mean you support mistreatment of a particular group... It just means you are neutral in the matter. 

I very much agree with everything you said. Being inclusive is one thing, but straight up donating money to certain political organizations is a different story. 

 

I mean, this is total BS from an evidently privileged perspective. 

Maybe listen to other people rather than telling them they’re fine, have all the rights, and to stop making a fuss. 

Being neutral? You are, I assume, familiar with the saying that ‘all it takes for evil to prosper is for good people to do nothing’?

I appreciate Lego taking a stance on equality and diversity issues - it matters. And it makes a difference. And sometimes that difference involves putting your profits where your PR mouth is at. 

[Alexandrina]

15 minutes ago, Lego David said:

Yeah, and at the same time those groups aren't even as mistreated as the Left-wing activists would want you to believe. And even when those "mistreatments" do happen, they are grossly exaggerated in order to comply with their political agenda. 

Those groups already have as much equal rights as everyone else, and those who are still asking for more want privileges, not rights.

You realise Everyone Is Awesome couldn't legally be sold in some countries because of those countries' attitudes towards LGBTQ+ people, right? Even in Western countries, mistreatment of LGBTQ+ people is not 'grossly exaggerated', and in fact as recently at last week a UK appeals court overturned a ruling - much celebrated in our national media - on the basis that it actively denied trans people the same rights as everybody else.

20 minutes ago, Lego David said:

Being a complicit means directly contributing to something. If you just choose to just simply stay out of a subject you know is divisive doesn't mean you support mistreatment of a particular group...

When the status quo is mistreatment of a group, choosing to stay out of the subject is choosing the status quo, and thus the mistreatment of that group. Making that choice makes you complicit.

On top of that, representation in products aimed at kids is vital for visibility. I was born in the tail end of the 1990s, and growing up literally every single character in books and on TV was straight (apart from odd token individuals). It meant that for a long long time I literally did not know LGBTQ+ people existed, because I didn't get any exposure to the community's existence. Yes, Lego is a toy of imagination - but I didn't have the capacity to imagine my Lego minifigures as anything other than cis-straight. The consequence of this lack of exposure is that I didn't realise I was trans for far too long, and instead spent over a decade thoroughly miserable convinced I was a "weirdo who wants to be a girl". I'm still not able to access medical care (and if wanting major medical care to be accessible in less than twenty-seven years is privilege, then I guess I am privileged...) and have had permanent, unwanted changes to my body that will open me up to bigotry for the rest of my life and that could have been avoided had I only known what trans people were when I was young.

There are NO negative consequences for anyone from Lego releasing Everyone Is Awesome and similar sets, excluding them doing so in areas where possessing the set exposes people to physical harm. If you're not LGBTQ+, and you don't want the set, it's easy enough to not buy it, or to buy it and disassemble it for parts - people rarely get so vexed about the existence of other sets that don't interest them. If you are LGBTQ+, it tells you you're seen. If you're a kid, struggling with your sexuality or your gender identity or anything else, it tells you that there are options available. This reflects a wider trend towards inclusion in media - a few years ago, a major network broadcast She-Ra, a kids' cartoon with a wide variety of characters. Things like that, unthinkable even a decade ago, are the way of the future. It would be foolish of Lego to remain silent.

[danth]

Why are the people who want Lego to "stay out of politics" always starting political arguments on a forum about Lego?

Please point me to any evidence you have regarding Lego actively endorsing a specific political candidate, or trying to influence an election.

I think what you guys are really complaining about is Lego reacting to cultural shifts. You misinterpret cultural shifts that you don't like as politics. You misinterpret your frustration at losing the culture war as some sort of victimhood. When really, you just need to move into the current century.

[Vindicare]

On 9/21/2021 at 2:52 PM, allanp said:

No, like I have said already, I don't want them to mirror my politics or anyone elses. Whilst everything CAN be made political, such as "Omg they released a V8 Supercar, they support burning fossil fuels!" or even "they made a queer eye set omg!", these are not in themselves political statements, they are just popular things that happen to exist in reality. But sending money to BLM and releasing a clearly rainbow coloured set are outwardly political because they are based solely on political points of view, and only one side of their respective arguments, without having to be made political. How many black people have been hurt because of clashes caused by BLM? How many young black kids are discouraged from trying their best because they are constantly told that they as an individual have less chance to succeed purely because of the colour of their skin? And everyone is awesome except if your a straight white male, or a member of the Taliban, or a nazi, or....clearly no one (certainly not me) actually believes everyone is awesome. No one believes all cultures are awesome either. And if Lego really supported gay rights then why do business in Saudi Arabia? If they are so brave and bold why not sell the everyone is awesome set in Saudi Arabia? Do you believe big companies like Lego support such things because they believe in them or because they can make money from you?! And if Lego, in their greed for woke dollars, didn't play this political crap would we be arguing here on Eurobricks, or just enjoying our hobby?

Now it's important to know that I didn't say any of that in some sad attempt to spread my own views, it's just a tiny example of how there's more than one side to every story and to come down on only one divides that one from the rest. There is more that unites us than divides us but the more big companies play politics for cash the more we are turning on each other and I am sick to death of that shit, not only the companies that do it but the people that fall for it. Whilst it may be true that I only notice more when the political statement being made goes against my own, that does not invalidate what I'm saying. Keep politics out, all of it!

I get what you’re saying. It’s sad that so many missed your point to, oddly enough, inject politics in it. Like the Police sets they chose to make a show of how they picked a side in that. They could’ve just stopped advertising them & let it end there. But no, they had to announce it from the rooftops for some brownie points. 

[williejm]

3 minutes ago, Vindicare said:

I get what you’re saying. It’s sad that so many missed your point to, oddly enough, inject politics in it. Like the Police sets they chose to make a show of how they picked a side in that. They could’ve just stopped advertising them & let it end there. But no, they had to announce it from the rooftops for some brownie points. 

Yes, it’s always sad when so many miss the point. 

[Vindicare]

11 minutes ago, williejm said:

Yes, it’s always sad when so many miss the point. 

Yep.

[Duvors]

8 hours ago, BrickObsessed said:

 Does anyone actually believe Everyone is Awesome? All of us have someone we do not like. It's not always about race or gender.

In general I have no stake in this particular argument, but since I've noticed this being brought up in this thread by several people I'd just like to point out how absurd this particular statement is. Of course not every single human being on the planet is an awesome person, but that's not what the title means or is intended to convey. Yes, of course calling it something like LGBTQ+ People are Awesome would probably be more accurate to the intended message, but that just sounds unwieldy for the title of a set, and obscures the reference to  Everything is Awesome. It's ultimately a bit of rhetorical corner-cutting. Quibbling about the precise wording of the name is just nonsensical hair-splitting and irrelevant to whether the company are virtue-signalers or not.

[Johnny1360]

Honestly, we are going to go through all this again.

[Classic_Spaceman]

1 hour ago, Vindicare said:

Like the Police sets they chose to make a show of how they picked a side in that. They could’ve just stopped advertising them & let it end there. But no, they had to announce it from the rooftops for some brownie points. 

The list of sets included both the Police and Fire subthemes of City, as well as the White House Architecture set (Source): 



Official comment on the matter: 

“We requested that our affiliate partners refrain from posting promotional LEGO content as part of our decision to respect #BlackOutTuesday and pause posting content on our social media channels in response to the tragic events in the US. We regret any misunderstanding and will ensure that we are clearer about our intentions in the future.” 
 

[Vindicare]

3 hours ago, Classic_Spaceman said:

The list of sets included both the Police and Fire subthemes of City, as well as the White House Architecture set (Source): 



Official comment on the matter: 

“We requested that our affiliate partners refrain from posting promotional LEGO content as part of our decision to respect #BlackOutTuesday and pause posting content on our social media channels in response to the tragic events in the US. We regret any misunderstanding and will ensure that we are clearer about our intentions in the future.” 
 

Which only makes it more ridiculous. Lumping firemen in with police simply because they’re under the “emergency” umbrella is idiotic. 

[metalgeekzy]

8 minutes ago, Vindicare said:

Which only makes it more ridiculous. Lumping firemen in with police simply because they’re under the “emergency” umbrella is idiotic. 

Its actually under "city" I got a camper set and a few space sets. It covers a large range of sets. 

[Lego David]

7 hours ago, danth said:

Please point me to any evidence you have regarding Lego actively endorsing a specific political candidate, or trying to influence an election

As I said already, the choice of supporting BLM by straight up giving them money is basically aligning them with that particular party. It is not as extreme as endorsing a particular candidate or trying to influence an election (they will probably never do that, because they are a Danish company so why would they care who rules America), but it is still very much a political move. The fact that they've even gone as far as pulling advertising for the Police City sets shows that they seem to have a pretty big dedication to this cause.

[allanp]

On 9/22/2021 at 9:49 PM, Classic_Spaceman said:

I know that I should stay out of this, but are you actually saying that the Everyone is Awesome set is somehow comparing straight White males to the Taliban and the Nazis??? 
 

 

On 9/22/2021 at 10:33 PM, Duvors said:

Then stay out. It's obviously a nonsensical strawman argument intended to 'troll' people and anyone who makes such statements are largely immune to computer-delivered arguments. Also, yes they are.

No I am not. 

 

15 hours ago, Lego David said:

Yeah, and at the same time those groups aren't even as mistreated as the Left-wing activists would want you to believe. And even when those "mistreatments" do happen, they are grossly exaggerated in order to comply with their political agenda. 

Those groups already have as much equal rights as everyone else, and those who are still asking for more want privileges, not rights. So LEGO not straight up coming up and voicing their support for them would in no way make them "complicit" in their mistreatment. Being a complicit means directly contributing to something. If you just choose to just simply stay out of a subject you know is divisive doesn't mean you support mistreatment of a particular group... It just means you are neutral in the matter. 

@allanp I very much agree with everything you said. Being inclusive is one thing, but straight up donating money to certain political organizations is a different story. 

 

Thank you.

14 hours ago, Alexandrina said:

You realise Everyone Is Awesome couldn't legally be sold in some countries because of those countries' attitudes towards LGBTQ+ people, right? Even in Western countries, mistreatment of LGBTQ+ people is not 'grossly exaggerated', and in fact as recently at last week a UK appeals court overturned a ruling - much celebrated in our national media - on the basis that it actively denied trans people the same rights as everybody else.

When the status quo is mistreatment of a group, choosing to stay out of the subject is choosing the status quo, and thus the mistreatment of that group. Making that choice makes you complicit.

On top of that, representation in products aimed at kids is vital for visibility. I was born in the tail end of the 1990s, and growing up literally every single character in books and on TV was straight (apart from odd token individuals). It meant that for a long long time I literally did not know LGBTQ+ people existed, because I didn't get any exposure to the community's existence. Yes, Lego is a toy of imagination - but I didn't have the capacity to imagine my Lego minifigures as anything other than cis-straight. The consequence of this lack of exposure is that I didn't realise I was trans for far too long, and instead spent over a decade thoroughly miserable convinced I was a "weirdo who wants to be a girl". I'm still not able to access medical care (and if wanting major medical care to be accessible in less than twenty-seven years is privilege, then I guess I am privileged...) and have had permanent, unwanted changes to my body that will open me up to bigotry for the rest of my life and that could have been avoided had I only known what trans people were when I was young.

There are NO negative consequences for anyone from Lego releasing Everyone Is Awesome and similar sets, excluding them doing so in areas where possessing the set exposes people to physical harm. If you're not LGBTQ+, and you don't want the set, it's easy enough to not buy it, or to buy it and disassemble it for parts - people rarely get so vexed about the existence of other sets that don't interest them. If you are LGBTQ+, it tells you you're seen. If you're a kid, struggling with your sexuality or your gender identity or anything else, it tells you that there are options available. This reflects a wider trend towards inclusion in media - a few years ago, a major network broadcast She-Ra, a kids' cartoon with a wide variety of characters. Things like that, unthinkable even a decade ago, are the way of the future. It would be foolish of Lego to remain silent.

I understand everything you are saying. And I do still wonder why big companies like Lego who say they are for LGBTQ+ people are carrying out aggressive expansion in places like Saudi Arabia. These people don't just get vexxed on they internet. It's government policy to throw you in jail, and far worse happens than that. Actions speak louder than words. They can say they are for LGBTQ+ people all they want but while they do business in Saudi Arabia I can only see it as playing politics for cash. 

As someone who was diagnosed with severe clinical depression and as someone who has seen recently first hand the effects of suicide it really is personally heart breaking when I hear that the suicide rates among the LGBTQ+ community is so high and last I heard it's getting worse. This does make me angry. One of the things that helped me was finding out I wasn't alone. I can certainly sympathise with how knowing you are not alone helped you, far more directly in your case. However, I am not going to argue with you what the best course of action is for the existence of gender dysphoria, or who it is that needs said "treatment" here on Eurobricks. I know your view and you likely know mine and I don't think we'll ever agree. I don't want to argue that with you, which I would have to in order to reply to the rest of your comment.

It's not just Lego releasing just one set. It's lots of companies and media getting more and more political, and I'm just seeing more division all the while. More riots, more anger, more hate, more intolerance of opposing points of view with less willingness for intellectually honest give and take discussions, huge increases in mental health issues and suicide rates increasing. After all this corporate virtue signalling nothing is getting better, only worse. It's just marketing departments thinking they can improve their brand image by "moving into the 20th century", never mind all the division it causes. "Oh but if people would just shut up, listen and agree with everything we say their wouldn't be any division or problem now would there!". To those I say you are the problem!

 

[MAB]

16 hours ago, Alexandrina said:

When the status quo is mistreatment of a group, choosing to stay out of the subject is choosing the status quo, and thus the mistreatment of that group. Making that choice makes you complicit.

So are LEGO any less complicit now they have done the LGBT rainbow and an adult aimed licensed set with gay men in it?

They have not challenged the status quo when it comes to anything unlicensed, especially in their flagship City line that depicts "normal life". They still haven't done a house set with a bed and two men or two women, they still haven't done a set with minifigures with an obviously male head on a body with female clothes / torso or vice versa in City, and so on. They are still choosing the status quo for the majority of their product line, and all of it that is aimed at children. 

I imagine that is because LGBT City sets are likely to sell less well to the majority of families buying them and may put some people off the whole line and LEGO do not want to risk that. Whereas one off adult aimed sets produced for Pride month are not really any different to Coca Cola printing a Pride rainbow on limited edition bottles or M&S doing Lettuce, Guacamole,  Bacon and Tomato sandwiches - it is just targeted advertising unless they actually start to change the societal viewpoint they continue to portray in City. If LEGO were previously complicit in that they didn't do gay or trans people, then to me they are still complicit.

[Lira_Bricks]

First comments mentioning anything "political", also the first aggressor:

On 9/20/2021 at 11:25 AM, allanp said:

[...] I wish they would stay out of politics entirely.

On 9/20/2021 at 12:45 PM, allanp said:

[...] the rainbow coloured EIA set (with its intro in the instructions), stopping marketing of police sets and supporting BLM are too political.

So here we have someone deciding to use this topic to spew hatred again.

After that williejm is the first to defend the people mentioned in allanps post:

On 9/20/2021 at 6:15 PM, williejm said:

[...]

And now we have the same situation as usual. The same people spewing hatred (allanp, Lego David,...) and same people defending human rights (williejm, danth, Toastie, Kim-Kwang-Seok, Alexandrina, Vindicare,...). We only need to wait for the moderators to show up, lock this thread and then blame it all on both the aggressors and the people defending human rights. Because both are equally in the wrong, right?

As Johnny1360 already said...

10 hours ago, Johnny1360 said:

Honestly, we are going to go through all this again.

Honestly, the only reason I am here again is to take a good look at the forum, as I am planning to make a new platform for moc's since I disagree so much the stance the mods have taken here... And then I saw this topic.

Still not sure if a new platform would catch up, since more and more people use other social media. Just setting up a forum and waiting is not going to do anything. Oh well, will think about it some more.

12 minutes ago, MAB said:

So are LEGO any less complicit now they have done the LGBT rainbow and an adult aimed licensed set with gay men in it?

They have not challenged the status quo when it comes to anything unlicensed, especially in their flagship City line that depicts "normal life". They still haven't done a house set with a bed and two men or two women, they still haven't done a set with minifigures with an obviously male head on a body with female clothes / torso or vice versa in City, and so on. They are still choosing the status quo for the majority of their product line, and all of it that is aimed at children. 

I imagine that is because LGBT City sets are likely to sell less well to the majority of families buying them and may put some people off the whole line and LEGO do not want to risk that. Whereas one off adult aimed sets produced for Pride month are not really any different to Coca Cola printing a Pride rainbow on limited edition bottles or M&S doing Lettuce, Guacamole,  Bacon and Tomato sandwiches - it is just targeted advertising unless they actually start to change the societal viewpoint they continue to portray in City. If LEGO were previously complicit in that they didn't do gay or trans people, then to me they are still complicit.

I agree with you. It is nice seeing disabilities being portrayed in Lego City, but there is not a lot done for non-white, non-cis, non-gender-conforming and non-hetero people.

Edited September 24, 2021 by Lira_Bricks

[Gimmick]

Mixed thoughts - tendency: good

It's hard for me to "like a company" anyway. Some things they do are questionable for me, a lot of things they do are very good.

The people working there seem to be very nice and while I do not agree with every descision (products, marketing,...) I see no reason to suspect some 'intentional evilness' x)