LEGO 42129 Zetros VS custom-built LEGO trial trucks

[syclone]

1 hour ago, Gimmick said:

Ah yes 42064, thx :)

But they were expecting a Lego model with all types of new parts and only one goal: best possible real-life-offroad-action. Isn't that close enough to impossible? And then they say "but the picture on the box..."  sry :(

For me the set has 3.5 major flaws: turning circle, suspension not soft enough, the price and maybe the rare axle problem. But the turning circle is the main point for me. Bigger wheels and a bigger scale would make the model way to big for my taste, even at this scale it is almost too large. But the toy-ish feeling/handling get's completely ruined by the turning circle. If the steering can be changed without that much effort I would rate it much higher.

At none point have I said that it has the best of the best. It simply needs to get the job done without being a POS. As it is right now, it barely has any offroad abilities, or if it had any, they are runied by the problems aforementioned (you forgot the miniscule ground clearance btw). Also you seem to forget the gates included in the box, which serve the purpose of defining a trail to traverse - offroading innuendo.

In regards of your laughing emoji statement:

As far as I'm concerned, most buyers seeing a set pictured in a certain environment will suppose that the set can be used there, hence why water vehicles in Technic line have the Model does not float text on the box. However there's no such warning on Zetros, and a bare minimum can be expected therefore. It is the same as any other product - if it can't do it, the manufacturer has to clarify that ( the "presentation suggestion" label on food products is an example). Imagine a phone being marketed being used in a pool of water - one's first though is most likely to be "Oh, I can use that in water", not "tHis Is a sMaRtPhOne, ThErEfOrE i CaN't UsE iT iN wAtEr". The company marketing has to present (although usually perfect or exagerrated) realistic expectations and convince the buyer to buy a product. Otherwise it's simply deceitful.

I simply can't rate something as good when it is simply bad, and much better products can be obtained, even if it's a toy.

Edited July 26, 2021 by syclone

[JaBaCaDaBra]

3 hours ago, Gimmick said:

realy looking forward to all those videos

Oh well, there was a member dat ran 42099 through mud and then was surprised the thing clogged up.

[Bartybum]

1 hour ago, Gimmick said:

But they were expecting a Lego model with all types of new parts

You'll have to show me examples of people saying they wanted all types of new parts.

1 hour ago, Gimmick said:

and only one goal: best possible real-life-offroad-action. Isn't that close enough to impossible? And then they say "but the picture on the box..."  sry :(

So wanting a set that will perform adequately is now the same as wanting the best possible off road performance? Come on, seriously? It's painfully obvious that this set doesn't even give adequate performance, otherwise so many people wouldn't be complaining about its very real flaws.

Edited July 26, 2021 by Bartybum

[nerdsforprez]

16 hours ago, Sariel said:

Just keep in mind that perhaps you should get this set and test it first. I did.

+1. 

[Gimmick]

40 minutes ago, syclone said:

As far as I'm concerned, most buyers seeing a set pictured in a certain environment will suppose that the set can be used there,

I hope that's not the case, but if it is, well... :<

Ground clearance is not flawed for me. It fits more or less the original at that scale. Some kind of final words from me: I understand the critics, I just do not see the choice of scale and 'template' (ground clearance etc.) by itself as mistake or "incompetence". But the steering for example looks realy bad - atleast until someone convinces me, that it's not possible to do better in this case.

@JaBaCaDaBra I remember that, but I'm not sure if he realy was surprised or if there was something lost in translation :D

@Bartybum I thought that was one complaint from sariel "Unlike MOC builders, LEGO can make any new part they want. New tires? Sure. Limited slip differentials? Not a problem. New suspension pieces that allow building compact axles with decent ground clearance? Absolutely."

Adequate to what? A 4x4 zetros at this size? A $300 RC model? I think the main difference in our perception is that some / many others here take the price as it is and criticize the model for not doing what the price suggests in their eyes (valid opinion, but you know Lego prices...and therefore every model is basically bad, because, as I said, Lego prices...). On the contrary, I tend to accept the decisions made / the chosen truck type but then critisize specific solutions (like the steering, a not properly working gearbox,...) and I prefer to seperate the price in my ratings of the model, because if something is not working properly, making it cheaper does not fix it :D and the other way around :). And therefore it's hard for me to comprehend critics like "it's their fault to build it this way, they could have done a 6x6". It's true, but if you want to build a 4x4 you're not doing it automatically wrong by definition ;)

[u118224]

The test was instructive and entertaining plus I appreciate all the time and effort that went into creating it. I've build a few off road MOCs designed by others and my comment is that they're very expensive to re-create, especially once you add SBrick, Buwizz, rechargeable batteries, etc. I would certainly take any of the trucks in the video over the Zetros but I doubt their owners would sell them for $300. 

The flaw in the rear axle has to be addressed, and it needs bigger wheels and tires for sure. I still plan to buy and I will definitely be using it outdoors.

 

 

[Citromon]

First of all, TLG definitely didn't consider this set for an outdoor play, even if it's a trial truck. I'm not disturbed about the model itself, but the attitude of TLG towards potential buyers.

Does the Zetros look, fell, or perform as a $300 set? - NO!

Could they do at least an acceptable steering and suspension for this money? - YES!

Did they care? - NO!

It seems to me that the designers were given only two tasks: to come up with something new in technical terms and to make the model similar to the original. And this they have done.

 

[Citromon]

7 hours ago, Maaboo35 said:

7 hours ago, Johnny1360 said:

overpriced, underperforming, parts pack

Now that's what should be on the box!

About the box - That front frame gives me the impression that the truck is cutting through the dunes at some speed, what is obviously - false. And on the back, we see some crazy suspension, what is also - false. I'm sorry for all those hos defending TLG, but that's clear misinformation. And you know what? I know a couple of other Lego kits, whose boxes were photoshopped, and the sets were presented on them in unrealistic hypostases.

Edited July 26, 2021 by Citromon

[allanp]

On 7/25/2021 at 7:10 PM, Sariel said:

Sorry, but this isn't true. All our trial trucks are required to be models of real trucks at a fixed scale. They may not be as detailed and aesthetically polished as Zetros, but they are absolutely not allowed to be proportioned however they want. Actually, the opposite is true: our competition requires one fixed scale for all trucks so the size of your model is predetermined, whereas LEGO was free to build Zetros at any scale they liked.

Yeah, I didn't mention this but this "winner" required rebooting my phone for the Control+ app to connect and start driving at all...

To sum up: I agree that this comparison isn't fair, but I don't see any way to make it fair. These are our current top-of-the-line custom trial trucks, what else can I compare Zetros against? Only 4x4 trucks with the same wheels, same proportions and so on? Pardon me, but that's just silly. The point here is, nobody forced LEGO to use small wheels in this set, to make it 4x4 that's as long as 6x6, to keep ground clearance minimal and to waste time on differential locks that just don't really change much. Unlike MOC builders, LEGO can make any new part they want. New tires? Sure. Limited slip differentials? Not a problem. New suspension pieces that allow building compact axles with decent ground clearance? Absolutely. Instead they've given us a $300 set with tires borrowed from a tractor, flimsy doors held by like a single pin, turning radius of a bus, hood that won't stay closed, and ridiculously bad weight distribution (literally the only way to make it worse would be to put the smart hub on the roof). And then they've called it a trial truck. This is where LEGO gets to manage our expectations, because if it was, say, a $150 set (don't tell me it can't be, there are barely any new pieces and zero new electronics in it), or if it was just called a Zetros truck, nobody in their right mind would compare it against custom-built trial trucks. Our expectations would be different. Different than they are now, when we're told "this is the official LEGO trial truck and it's worth $300". There is literally nothing about this set that would explain its price, not the license, not the parts, not the functions, NOTHING. And there was hardly any need to insist on calling it a trial truck, since Zetros trucks aren't really much associated with this particular sport, unlike for example Tatra trucks - should LEGO ever try the Tatra license, the "trial truck" part would come much more naturally.

Well you do make a lot of good, valid points here.

Okay, the competitors are built to a fixed scale, but it's still a scale that's larger than the Zetros, so of course they will manage bigger obstacles. And Lego were looking to hit a certain price point (overpriced granted lol!) and feature set so they were kinda forced to use the size of wheel they did to reach that. 

And yeah, the whole PU system still feels rather under cooked, a feeling I get with all PU sets, not just the Zetros.

As for what to compare it to, maybe the previous Lego crawlers and off roaders? These are sets that all have to meet the same criteria so would probably be a fairer test. I'm sure the Zetros would beat 42070 quite handily. Having said that, I do appreciate that you are fully willing to show any sets short comings. No-one can accuse you if being biased towards TLG that's for sure, so thank you for that honesty, it's always welcome regardless of weather I happen to agree.

I don't see the diff locks as a waste of time. Ideally you'd be driving it indoors over little obstacles you set up for this model, with the diff locks open, get stuck, and then marvel at how you can lock the diff to get moving again. It's also a function of the real thing so it's good to see it included here. But I do agree that the turning circle is too large so it's harder to see its benefits. But I'd say that's a failing of the steering rather than the diff locks.

Now you mentioned Legos ability to make new parts, which is something I 100% agree with. Happily they did make some new parts, the extending CV joint piece, the new tyres (which admittedly aren't the best for this set but will be great for future sets), and the new alternating beams. But yes, Lego needs to up their game with suspension pieces. It looks like the Zetros would benefit from some slightly softer suspension with more flexibility (as in range of movement) from the axles. And some way of making the axles way less bulky. Lego axles have always been may too massive. 

I have never understood your pickyness with flimsey doors. To scale you are about the size of King Kong. Of course they'll feel flimsey to you! But by now it's a tradition of your reviews, I'd probably miss it if you didn't mention flimsey doors 

As for Lego calling it a trial truck, and charging 300 for it, yes I do agree. But here I feel a little sorry for the Zetros. Most if us agree that Legos pricing of PU sets is crazy, and their marketing department have been very questionable as of late (18+ for a racers style simple pickup anyone?!). But is that really the fault of the model itself? Someone could tell lies about me and introduce me to a crowd of people as a master violinist, then they get disappointed when I play the kazoo, would that be my fault, or the fault of the person who incorrectly introduced me? I do agree that the astronomical prices and questionable marketing do a bad job of managing expectations. Maybe if they didn't call it a trial truck, didn't include the trial truck flags, and priced it way more reasonably, would your opinion of the model itself be better? It's certainly better than previous TLG attempts at an off roader, is it not?

Edited July 26, 2021 by allanp

[Pato Sentado]

On 7/25/2021 at 11:14 AM, Anio said:

Comparing the achievements of a 4x4 with medium wheels to 6x6 with giant wheels is kinda silly, to say the least.

In IRL Truck trial they would go in different categories, as it is a modified 4x4 against 6x6 Protos. And when they fall over the gray one gets disintegrated. That would not pass prerace certification.

I am in Technic since the proto supercar, and you do not use the functions, you want to learn how they work. So the blocking differentials are something nice.

[Johnny1360]

4 hours ago, Gimmick said:

@JaBaCaDaBra

Please disregard quote box.

As far as what is pictured on the box. I am currently working a deal with Jeff Bezos to take me and my Star Wars sets into space so I can properly play with them, as pictured, lol.

I am genuinely upset about the recent buggy not performing anything at all like what's pictured. That thing could barely crest a five degree incline and moves with the speed of a desert tortoise. I was able to have a little fun with it last winter though, by ripping through a slight dusting of snow that fell on a frozen lake, wee. It would almost kick up a rooster tail if you kicked it sideways at full speed, downhill, lol.

And I am glad to see all this discussion of what appears to be a rather lackluster set to many. It shows just how passionate some can be with their LEGO and maybe can help TLG raise the bar and give the fans what they want, or expect.

Edited July 26, 2021 by Johnny1360

[1974]

It's very easy, EVERY trial LEGO truck, be it official or a MOC is complete and utter crap compared to proper RC trucks

LEGO is not, and will never be, usefull for this purpose. TLG should NEVER have designed sets that people might take outdoors

Proper RC trucks are actually not that more expensive than this set in question, btw

In my opinion Technic all went to shit with the first RC vehicle (the dozer in 07?)

[howitzer]

28 minutes ago, 1974 said:

It's very easy, EVERY trial LEGO truck, be it official or a MOC is complete and utter crap compared to proper RC trucks

LEGO is not, and will never be, usefull for this purpose. TLG should NEVER have designed sets that people might take outdoors

Proper RC trucks are actually not that more expensive than this set in question, btw

In my opinion Technic all went to shit with the first RC vehicle (the dozer in 07?)

There was the 8082 Multi Control Set in 1993, which included a remote-controlled (by wire) car model. But if you disregard that, I guess the dozer of 2007 was indeed the first RC set.

I also dislike this trend of introducing more and more RC sets, and I'd even drop the motorization out of the majority of sets. The Tow truck is a great demonstration of how you can make an interesting set without motors, and electronics just make the sets that much more expensive, especially if you make them RC. "Dumb" motorized sets (42055, 42082 etc.) at least get a lot done with just one motor and dumb battery box, while RC sets must have at least two motors and C+ hub (or IR receivers before) which raises the price a lot. If you keep buying sets, after a while you'll have quite a collection of motors and hubs, and how many do you really need?

[TeriXeri]

4 hours ago, howitzer said:

There was the 8082 Multi Control Set in 1993, which included a remote-controlled (by wire) car model. But if you disregard that, I guess the dozer of 2007 was indeed the first RC set.

There was 5600: Radio Control Racer in 1998, but it's not Technic, but rather a studded RC Car chassis, with 5 different available builds on top.

Edited July 27, 2021 by TeriXeri

[2GodBDGlory]

Also, I believe the 1999 Super Street Sensation offered an option in which a Mindstorms RCX could be added, and, with an optional remote, remote controlled.

(Source: Technicopedia)