Where is LEGO Going?

[Alexandrina]

1 hour ago, caiman0637 said:

And you're okay with this happening?

By the very definition of the hypothetical, there couldn't be anybody who was alive and NOT okay with that - since if there was, they'd still be buying plastic bricks, so Lego wouldn't stop making plastic bricks.

It's genuinely an absurd thing to be worried about. If Lego ever stopped making bricks, it would be telegraphed well in advance by declining sales and declining production, and there is no suggestion this is even in consideration.

[Fuppylodders]

Things come and go, companies come along and do good, then change/get with the times/adapt etc. At some point, they may just well end up closing up for good. It happens. Nothing lasts forever.

Except lockdown in the uk.... 

Even I, who dislike TLG partnering off their licence to other companies for gimmicky stuff, who thinks they're wasting their time trying out the ar stuff/Mario stuff know they're going nowhere (in a sense of not going under) and bricks will be their predominant feature of sales for as long as they keep going. I might not like it, but others do, and that's fine, others are allowed to enjoy different things from the same company. Even if it means they stop doing things that I like. It's been a good ride and I'll just enjoy what I've got, and perhaps move onto other things. I don't expect them to sell what pleases me for the rest of my life that's for sure. TLG are trying to keep relevant, because, they're a business. It's how they survive. I wont be keeping relevant, because I hate a lot of new gimmicky things, and apps like tiktok and the negative side of modern technology and how its made people want things/an amazing life without having to do anything to earn it and how companies want as much information about you as possible. 

 

It is what it is. One thing I've learned is, you cant stop life and time from continuing. You can only choose which parts of it you choose to be a part of and let into your life. 

Edited March 19, 2021 by Fuppylodders

[MAB]

2 hours ago, caiman0637 said:

And you're okay with this happening?

If the entire population of the world decides it doesn't want to play with toy bricks, then yes, I think it would be fine if lego stopped producing toy bricks and any websites about them stopped publishing information and eventually disappeared to archive only.

However, I do not think that vidiyo will cause that to happen.

 

[Stuartn]

5 hours ago, Alexandrina said:

Disclaimer: this won't work if you are in Australia or anywhere else where Woolworths is an active brand

Our Woolworths are actually a separate company to the US ones, it was actually named after the US stores. But it is a good example of a brand changing, Big W, a company it owns, was originally a large format Woolworths-owned department store, when Woolworths still sold general merchandise, but the latter adapted to the supermarket it is today and the Big W is now the discount variety store, yet nothing has changed in terms of availability of products to the consumer.

But back on topic, Lego bricks are going nowhere, in example like Nexo Knights or whatever other theme. You still need bricks, and the bricks are not dependent on the app at all. If you don't want the app, it isn't required to use it. The super mario sets are different in this respect, and I hope that this does not continue into the future with other sets. When/if instructions are moved online, Lego will be much less accessible, unless you own a device.

1 hour ago, Fuppylodders said:

It is what it is. One thing I've learned is, you cant stop life and time from continuing. You can only choose which parts of it you choose to be a part of and let into your life. 

You've put that perfectly

[The Stud]

This is a very reductive and pessimistic way of looking at things. I’m not a fan of any the themes Lego has tried to integrate this smart phone technology with, but I still admire that they don’t stop trying to keep up with the technology and trends of the times. They actually try to innovate instead of resting on their laurels and doing the same shtick with blocks and bricks for all of eternity. Let’s not forget that kids are the core audience of Lego’s sales and if Lego isn’t able to appeal to them, then they certainly won’t be able to support AFOLs like the members of thus forum. Lego is still popular with the kiddos, but technology is obviously playing more and more of a role in their lives with each generation. They need to try to keep up with the whims of their target demographic in order to survive.

[Toastie]

4 hours ago, Fuppylodders said:

It is what it is. One thing I've learned is, you cant stop life and time from continuing. You can only choose which parts of it you choose to be a part of and let into your life.

Yes and No .

Time? Time appears to be - endless. Or timeless. I like that about time the most.

Life? Life will continue as long as there is time. On different time scales, but on scales that "we" cannot encompass. I believe.

It is what it is? "Mostly". But still, I like to challenge that - every second of my life. Failure to that attempt of challenge - is boldly painted on the horizon, of course! I don't believe in horizons though, I believe in time.

Go out and change. Should it not work out: Do it all over.

Does that make a difference on the "big" scale? No. But "we" are more than 7 billion people. Does that make a difference? For sure - provided >7 billion people care about changing the world. The truth is, most of "us" need to secure food for the next day. So to change the world idea is a bit of a rich worlds' idea. On the other hand: We can certainly work closely together with "3rd" world countries. Should we decide to want to.

And thus, no, it is not what it is. It is what we - tolerate or accept. I believe.

Best
Thorsten 

 

 

32 minutes ago, The Stud said:

They actually try to innovate instead of resting on their laurels and doing the same shtick with blocks and bricks for all of eternity. Let’s not forget that kids are the core audience of Lego’s sales and if Lego isn’t able to appeal to them, then they certainly won’t be able to support AFOLs like the members of thus forum.

Very well phrased. As every other word in your post!

As far as I am concerned, most AFOLs are just kids who never grew up, but - unfortunately - grew up. And they look at things from a perspective, kids (that is the best part) don't yet have. Fortunately.

Best
Thorsten

 

 

Edited March 20, 2021 by Toastie

[TeriXeri]

I collected sets from Nexo Knights, Ninjago, Hidden Side for the LEGO bricks , not their surrounding apps/tv shows. 

LEGO also has a ton of books/magazines/sticker/acitivity books beside the digital offerings, many even still come with bricks or a figure/minibuild.

And while you can easily build LEGO digitally, for a long time, but more accessible now, it won't replace a pile of bricks for kids imo (especially when themes like Classic/3-in-1 are made, chances are great kids will build their own models).

I see Vidyo as just another take on CMF, collectability of tiles/figures, and AR app in the current days of instagram etc, it's not that weird for LEGO to experiment there on the current generation of teens etc.

Edited March 20, 2021 by TeriXeri

[dr_spock]

For some folks connectivity with your smart devices is a key selling point.  Pretty much all new cars now have to offer a feature of CarPlay and/or Android Auto or it is no good to tech savy buyers  STEM seems to be a thing with some parents.  Maybe in the future we will have robots to build the LEGO sets for us like automonous self-driving cars .

 

[Aanchir]

I can't in good conscience read a topic like this without linking to the Traumatic Events in the Life of a LEGO Fan post from the old-school Lugnet days — this topic would fit right in with the rest of those overwrought complaints and doomsday predictions.

As it stands, predictions that video games would make "traditional" toys like LEGO obsolete go back decades, and there's no more truth to that sort of inane fearmongering today than there was back then. The reality is that even in a digital world, kids still enjoy toys that they can physically hold and feel and touch. So far, no video game or app offers any sort of tactile experience that can compete with physical playthings on that level.

I mean, when the first LEGO Minecraft set was released, a lot of people expected it to be a disastrous flop, because kids who wanted a Minecraft-related play experience could just play the video game itself for free instead of paying money for a plastic recreation of the in-game experience. Yet that first set was not only a great success, but paved the way for an ongoing LEGO Minecraft product line which is now in its ninth year!

This sort of thing doesn't apply only to LEGO, either. I mean, e-books have existed since the early 90s, but regular books haven't even come close to disappearing. Likewise, card games and board games continue to exist decades after the earliest home video games. So why would you expect LEGO sets with app-based building instructions or play features to threaten the existence of sets with traditional building instructions and play features, which far outnumber them?

By the way, the Super Mario building instructions are all available to view or download as PDF files on the LEGO Customer Service website, same as with any other theme. So once again, you seem to be panicking over a non-issue.

[Fuppylodders]

2 hours ago, Toastie said:

 

Go out and change. Should it not work out: Do it all over.

Does that make a difference on the "big" scale? No. But "we" are more than 7 billion people. Does that make a difference? For sure - provided >7 billion people care about changing the world. The truth is, most of "us" need to secure food for the next day. So to change the world idea is a bit of a rich worlds' idea. On the other hand: We can certainly work closely together with "3rd" world countries. Should we decide to want to.

And thus, no, it is not what it is. It is what we - tolerate or accept. I believe.

Best
Thorsten 

It is what it is. TLG are going to design and produce for the most part what they feel is relevant and what they feel sells. Yes there are 7billion people on the planet. But not all 7 billion live in the first world and can afford lego. Not all of those left will care about lego. Not all of those that are left from that will be bothered. It simply will not happen that enough people would feel that strongly and make a difference to TLG and prevent them from trying to keep relevant.

Therefore, it is what it is. Us individuals (because essentially, that's all our value is, we simply aren't a big enough collective with the same mindset and goals) just have to go with the flow of what happens.

[caiman0637]

2 hours ago, Aanchir said:

Kids who wanted a Minecraft-related play experience could just play the video game itself for free instead of paying money for a plastic recreation of the in-game experience. 

By the way, the Super Mario building instructions are all available to view or download as PDF files on the LEGO Customer Service website, same as with any other theme. So once again, you seem to be panicking over a non-issue.

Minecraft is $7.00. 

And PDF files are on a screen, are they not? 

4 hours ago, Toastie said:

Yes and No .

Time? Time appears to be - endless. Or timeless. I like that about time the most.

Life? Life will continue as long as there is time. On different time scales, but on scales that "we" cannot encompass. I believe.

It is what it is? "Mostly". But still, I like to challenge that - every second of my life. Failure to that attempt of challenge - is boldly painted on the horizon, of course! I don't believe in horizons though, I believe in time.

Go out and change. Should it not work out: Do it all over.

Does that make a difference on the "big" scale? No. But "we" are more than 7 billion people. Does that make a difference? For sure - provided >7 billion people care about changing the world. The truth is, most of "us" need to secure food for the next day. So to change the world idea is a bit of a rich worlds' idea. On the other hand: We can certainly work closely together with "3rd" world countries. Should we decide to want to.

And thus, no, it is not what it is. It is what we - tolerate or accept. I believe.

Best
Thorsten 

Woah there, Aristotle. Are you talking about LEGO or Greek philosophy? 

[Stuartn]

3 hours ago, Aanchir said:

 

By the way, the Super Mario building instructions are all available to view or download as PDF files on the LEGO Customer Service website, same as with any other theme. So once again, you seem to be panicking over a non-issue.

The problem is that it can happen with other themes. Super Mario needs internet or devices anyway, so one can assume the consumer already has a device, but not everyone, like myself, has stable internet connections, (I have enough internet, but it comes at a high price) and that is in Australia. Devices are expensive too, and it would be disappointing to see people priced out of the market because they cannot afford a device. I know that is hypocritical since if you cannot afford a phone why are you buying LEGO, and most people have a phone, but people deserve nice things still. And I think it would be sad if one day you require a phone to use your LEGO bricks.

Edited March 20, 2021 by Stuartn

[MAB]

2 hours ago, Stuartn said:

The problem is that it can happen with other themes. 

It can, but currently it is not. They could make every theme require an app to use it but that would be ridiculous since they know many people don't want that. However, that doesn't mean they shouldn't devote a percent or two of their output to cater for people that do want to combine physical play with apps. It is not really any different to devoting a small percentage of output to those who want to build flowers or collect but not play with minifigures.

Vidiyo can also be played with off app too. My daughter has half a dozen of the bandmates and she is currently half way through building a stage for them. Brain rot or inspiration?

[Stuartn]

14 minutes ago, MAB said:

It can, but currently it is not. They could make every theme require an app to use it but that would be ridiculous since they know many people don't want that. However, that doesn't mean they shouldn't devote a percent or two of their output to cater for people that do want to combine physical play with apps. It is not really any different to devoting a small percentage of output to those who want to build flowers or collect but not play with minifigures.

Vidiyo can also be played with off app too. My daughter has half a dozen of the bandmates and she is currently half way through building a stage for them. Brain rot or inspiration?

I have no problems with apps or whatnot and I most certainly don’t think they are brain rot, as others may have said. I think if you can have an app to interact with bricks then all the better, LEGO is about creativity and that shouldn’t only mean creativity with physical bricks.

You’re right that it is not currently happening, and it is worth noting that (I think) a Star Wars set in 2005 only had online instructions and besides Super Mario it hasn’t progressed anywhere.

My issue only lies with instructions and while I agree these either are a long way off or may never happen, I just hope it won’t.

Edited March 20, 2021 by Stuartn

[Lego David]

On paper, I don't have any problem with LEGO experimenting and trying out new things, digital or otherwise. But here is my problem: They have no idea on how to create digital products. They are toy makers, not a video game company. That's why those digital experiments feel more like them just trying to tap into a market in which they have no staying power in, rather than genuine innovations. They just keep the app/gimmick around for as long as the sets are on shelves, and after that they just walk away. I'm sorry, but if you wanna create an app that will be engaging with kids, you should commit to it. 

On top of that, all those LEGO apps are notorious for barely working and being very glitchy. How do they expect kids to be engaged in this "new play experience" for more than 5 minutes before they go back to playing a game that actually works? Again, there is nothing wrong with trying put new things, but if they continue to persist with the digital market, they should hire a team of experienced app developers and create an app that works well and is fun and engaging. Not something that people will get completely bored of 5 minutes after trying it out.

 

[Lira_Bricks]

7 hours ago, Aanchir said:

I can't in good conscience read a topic like this without linking to the Traumatic Events in the Life of a LEGO Fan post from the old-school Lugnet days — this topic would fit right in with the rest of those overwrought complaints and doomsday predictions.

Awh, I wanted to share that! :(

As long as I can buy sets I enjoy, whatever. I am not angry that the ice cream shop sells all kinds of flavours, even though I only enjoy a few.

One thing I dislike tho, is the use of electronics in big Technic sets. But... I just read the building instructions online to see how the mechanics work, and buy the parts I like from bricklink so it is not that bad :D

[Toastie]

6 hours ago, caiman0637 said:

Are you talking about LEGO or Greek philosophy?

No, mine

Best
Thorsten

[VBBN]

I vastly, VASTLY prefer the idea of instructions being digital. 
 

Lego has to keep up with environmental demands. I have seen countless companies continue to push for more economical solutions to instructions/packing. While many of these solutions are great, It'd be impossible for Lego to downgrade their instructions to the level of single-color instructions or  brown backed pamphlets. People complain about “not being able to tell between black and dark gray” enough as it is with Lego’s highly above average instruction quality. 
 

Doesnt matter if you are staring at a booklet or staring at an iPad screen: instructions are instructions. But in a digital landscape, we can see better color separation, the ability to zoom in, and who knows what improvements will come in the future- on the fly error corrections? Animated depictions of what pieces go where? Imagine if you looked at the “pieces necessary” section of a step but couldn’t find where that piece goes, but you could tap on that piece and it would show you?

Adapting to the future doesn’t always mean a bad thing. Lego is going to evolve and adapt over time, as it always has. You can’t seriously look at where lego started, with wooden toys and metal cars and whatnot, and say it hasn’t evolved from that in its inception. It always has been a changing thing, and always will be, as any good product should be in my opinion. 

[Lira_Bricks]

1 hour ago, VBBN said:

Doesnt matter if you are staring at a booklet or staring at an iPad screen: instructions are instructions.

I have to disagree with you here, for me looking at paper is a lot easier on the eyes than staring at a screen. Yes I have brightness set relatively low, yes I have f.lux. Paper is still a lot better for me. Except for those black backgrounds, dunno why Lego thinks that is a good idea

[Mylenium]

8 hours ago, Lego David said:

On paper, I don't have any problem with LEGO experimenting and trying out new things, digital or otherwise. But here is my problem: They have no idea on how to create digital products.

We can agree on that at least. If LEGO's survival depended on their software ventures, be that apps, video games or even their web store they'd have shot themselves out of business a long time ago. I'm always baffled how a company with all the money in the world seems unable to hire some decent programmers or outsource their stuff to IT companies who actually know what they are doing. Instead it feels they pay such poor salaries that they can't attract any real talent in that department.

Mylenium

On 3/19/2021 at 4:35 AM, caiman0637 said:

I've been thinking, speculating, for a while now about where LEGO is going as a product. ...*snip*...

Funny how some people always seem to wax nostalgic about the good old times and the terrible situation LEGO was in in the early 2000s has been forgotten as have their many other crises before. I'll be the first to poke fun at some really moronic stuff LEGO do and how they seem to repeat the same mistakes over and over again, burning a lot of money in the process, but at the same time one has to acknowledge that as a business they are a stable corporation and that despite all the issues lately with quality of the bricks, poor availability and so on they still manage to dominate the toy market. However, the one thing that concerns me is that LEGO are at some sort of juncture and may turn into "just another con-glo-mo" as younger generations run the show and may place more value on revenue than core values. Especially in recent years there's that weird feeling that they monetize the hell out of their products, are extremely stingy about their IP and the old story of a family-friendly, family-owned business kind of clashes with reality on many other levels, too.

Mylenium

Edited March 20, 2021 by Mylenium

[Aanchir]

14 hours ago, caiman0637 said:

Minecraft is $7.00.

My point is that kids who are already Minecraft fans (and presumably, already own Minecraft) can experience more or less the entire game world as often as they like for no additional cost. Yet they still see an incentive to buy and play with the LEGO Minecraft sets. That alone should be proof that screen-based forms of entertainment don't prevent kids from continuing to enjoy physical toys.

14 hours ago, caiman0637 said:

And PDF files are on a screen, are they not?

Sure, unless you print them out. But do you really believe that there's something inherently bad about using a device with a screen to view or download LEGO instructions? How is it any worse than reading an internet message board like you're doing right now?

13 hours ago, Stuartn said:

The problem is that it can happen with other themes. Super Mario needs internet or devices anyway, so one can assume the consumer already has a device, but not everyone, like myself, has stable internet connections, (I have enough internet, but it comes at a high price) and that is in Australia. Devices are expensive too, and it would be disappointing to see people priced out of the market because they cannot afford a device. I know that is hypocritical since if you cannot afford a phone why are you buying LEGO, and most people have a phone, but people deserve nice things still. And I think it would be sad if one day you require a phone to use your LEGO bricks. 

Sure, but that's a "slippery slope" argument — there's no actual reason to expect online or app-based instructions to become the norm any time soon. For the most part, the only themes that haven't come with paper instructions are the few that are specifically designed to be played with in conjunction with the same device you'd use to read the instructions, like LEGO Life of George, Fusion, Dimensions, Boost, and Super Mario.

It's not as though sets that require an additional device for use are a fundamentally new thing, either. Most versions of LEGO Mindstorms have required a computer with a CD-ROM drive to fully enjoy them, as did the LEGO Technic CyberMaster and LEGO Studios Movie Maker Set. And a LOT more families have smartphones or tablets today than had home computers back in the late 90s.

It's safe to say that LEGO is aware that not everybody has access to the same sorts of technology, which is why these sets that outright require additional devices have never been more than a small fraction of the LEGO product range. The vast majority of sets are constructed from physical bricks with no digital integration whatsoever. And I fully expect that to remain the case for the foreseeable future.

However, this thread's original post makes it sound as if the existence of ANY theme that requires a screen or digital device is fundamentally a bad thing. And I don't really believe there's any credence to that sort of claim.

[caiman0637]

2 minutes ago, Aanchir said:

Sure, unless you print them out. 

Do you realize how much paper that uses?

[Aanchir]

55 minutes ago, caiman0637 said:

Do you realize how much paper that uses?

Probably no more than it would've taken to put paper instructions in the set itself? You could even resize them and print like four pages per sheet if you're that concerned about conserving ink or paper.

I certainly wouldn't go to this sort of effort most of the time… but then, I'm not the one acting like looking at pictures on a screen is the stuff of nightmares. I've been using digital instructions for years, whether for actual sets or for various alternate and combination models that could only be found online, and it's never been a problem.

Edited March 20, 2021 by Aanchir

[Alexandrina]

2 minutes ago, Aanchir said:

I've been using digital instructions for years, whether for actual sets or for various alternate and combination models that could only be found online, and it's never been a problem.

If anything, digital instructions have multiple advantages (and I say this as someone who takes good care of her physical manuals and always builds from them if available). Not too long ago, I came into a copy of 375 Yellow Castle broken down amongst a big job lot of bricks, but with no instructions - so I had to use digital instructions. There's a big difference between the ease of modern instructions and the bombardment of parts per step in the 1970s kits, so often I'd miss a brick. It's easy to go back. With digital instructions you can zoom in all the way if you can't quite see a detail. You don't have to prop heavy books open while you build so that gravity doesn't close them.

Would I be upset if Lego went all-digital with their instructions? Yes, I would... for a time. Then I'd get over it. Because at the end of the day these are plastic bricks, and unless the day ever comes that Lego are sending armed goons door to door to collect my old bricks and melt them down, nothing they do in the future will change what I already own. If they stopped making new bricks, stopped making decent sets, went entirely over to tech gimmicks, so what? We've had almost seventy years of interlocking plastic already, so there's plenty out there.

[Peppermint_M]

Something people seem to be forgetting is that LEGO is not the only company that will progress/change over the years leading up to this "50 years time" people are mentioning. Technology will advance and infrastructure will advance, people will move along with it.

If you told someone 50 years ago about a smart phone and what it could do, they would think you were crazy or a weird futurist. I grew up in the 90s and whenever we struggled with maths in school or I flunked a mental arithmetic test, the teacher would trot out the old "You won't always have a calculator in your pocket". Now I do. Sure, I can do quick sums when needed, but for anything else I can tot it up on the calculator pre-installed on my phone.

There are things we have now that were never imagined. Sure, Back to the Future had hoverboards and flying cars in 2015, but at the same time there were fax machines and no mobile phones!

People will change with the times too. They will not expect paper printed things. Sure; I love books and keep so many of them. But instructions and other magazines/pamphlets are slowly being replaced with digital. After all, it is a waste of paper to print out something like that, costs more to produce and is worse for the environment...

1 hour ago, caiman0637 said:

Do you realize how much paper that uses?

Irony ( specific, definition 2) 

TLG realises, hence the online/app based instructions where the theme or set already depends on an app.