Technic General Discussion

[Toastie]

10 minutes ago, Erik Leppen said:

If you see it that way, then every problem in existence anywhere at any time is a "lack of resources" allocated to something by someone at some moment.

Exactly that! I have heard this reasoning so many times in the more recent past - the larger the company, the more they seem to use it, at increasing rates. I just don't pay any attention anymore - just think: "Yeah, dudes, sure" and then do something else.

They usually try to spin this into a positive thing for the company: Internal competition to bolster creativity and motivation (crap - it's just the opposite, when you do this for years and see a similar pattern in the outcome) and to spend the money where it is best for the company (crap - leadership is what is required). The first thing that dies in an Excel spreadsheet regarding finances is creativity (or basic research, or fun, or feeling like a family, or ...)

Best
Thorsten 

[Jim]

18 minutes ago, Erik Leppen said:

If you see it that way, then every problem in existence anywhere at any time is a "lack of resources" allocated to something by someone at some moment. That makes it a vacuous truth.

This is true. Except maybe for FTL traveling, but other than that it's a valid statement.

In this case lack of resources means "lack of resources for something that doesn't generate enough money to justify it" 

[m2fel]

I'd like to see more b models again. If there are models targeted for kids the instructions should be available printed in the set. Kids should be able to build and learn sth. without the need of a screen or to print tons of pages with a background colour. I enjoyed b models as a kid and kept building back and forth and still would build them just for fun and to relax :) And printed instructions are way better than on screen in my opinion (yes, I could print instructions).

[Maaboo the Witch]

3 minutes ago, m2fel said:

I'd like to see more b models again. If there are models targeted for kids the instructions should be available printed in the set. Kids should be able to build and learn sth. without the need of a screen or to print tons of pages with a background colour. I enjoyed b models as a kid and kept building back and forth and still would build them just for fun and to relax :) And printed instructions are way better than on screen in my opinion (yes, I could print instructions).

You could not have put it better. 

[msk6003]

If there is a problem with the lack of designers, can't we accept applications after the release of the set or do something like a contest to officially include AFOL's B models?

[Jim]

3 minutes ago, msk6003 said:

If there is a problem with the lack of designers, can't we accept applications after the release of the set or do something like a contest to officially include AFOL's B models?

I'm sure only us AFOLs see it as a problem. From TLG's perspective, there isn't a real problem. Set sell anyway, so why bother making B-models. New teenagers don't know any better than Technic sets consist of a single model. So why go through all the trouble of using AFOLs B-models, especially since there's Rebrickable.

[Erik Leppen]

I wonder what percentage of the general Lego (Technic) building public uses sites like Rebrickable... versus what percentage used to build B-models when they existed. To be honest I expect the usage to have already dropped significantly when they replaced the paper instructions by a downloadable pdf, but I expect a normal Lego (Technic) building person doesn't care about B-models, and probably doesn't even come up with the idea of rebuilding, if everything in the whole set is designed around it being 1 model and nothing more. At least in the past they hinted at the idea of recombining the parts into something else that was just as official, with leftover parts that invite doing something with them.

One can wonder what value TLG places on creativity if B-models are apparently not worth it.

23 minutes ago, Jim said:

Set sell anyway, so why bother making B-models.

That is a short-sighted idea. The question of course is what is the long-term effect. We don't know, but I would expect the effect of B-models on sales, if it exists, to be mostly long-term. More people may stick to lego if it has more longer-term value, and B-models create long-term value.

But oh well. Us discussing this doesn't make B-models come back, so whatever. Probably I overestimate the effect. I just hate the fact that financial arguments are almost always the ones that survive and overshadow all the rest.

[Jim]

30 minutes ago, Erik Leppen said:

Probably I overestimate the effect.

Probably.

30 minutes ago, Erik Leppen said:

I just hate the fact that financial arguments are almost always the ones that survive and overshadow all the rest.

I'm with you on this one.

[howitzer]

TLG probably knows very well how much B-models get built (by looking at the instructions download numbers over the years, including the possible change when printed instructions were discontinued) and has reflected it upon the sales of the sets. They probably noticed that the lack of B-models are not affecting sales much and thus designing the set and making instructions is a wasted effort from the perspective of sales. At the same time, as others pointed out, alternative builds from fans are easily available and some of them are also of very high quality - making resource investment from TLG redundant.

I don't like the disappearence of official B-models either, but I can see why they have chosen this path.

[m2fel]

I am sorry but Lego is not the nice company next door which wants to make the world a better place... They are big business and make as much money as possible. No printed b model instructions saves money, lot's of money. Less development costs (the designer makes something which makes even more money), no print costs, less internal logistics, cheaper shipping as weight is saved (100k * 150g per set...) etc.. If someone shows the benefit of no b model, Lego will try it. Maybe start with some sets without and some with instructions for comparison. Looks like it is not beneficial to add printed b model instructions to most models.

In my mind this is the sad story of loosing b models. 

Prints: same story, save money.

Colour vomit, save money. All black parts lead to more complaints about build failures (unhappy customer) and 'lost part' claims (as Lego ships lost parts without long discussion, colour vomit pays of for sure as it is harder to mix parts).

It is all about making more money wether we like it or not...

Edited August 15, 2022 by m2fel

[Maaboo the Witch]

So, it turns out the 42116 and 42133 B-models are perfectly compatible:

Wonder if this is intentional.

Edited December 6, 2022 by Maaboo35

[DrJB]

If I may add my 0.02 here ...

1. Typically B-models are less attractive than the A-models. Example: The Silver Champion vs. 'squarish' truck

2. Typically, by the time I'm done building the A-model, I display and forget about the B-model

3. Old Lego sets were some sort of 'universal' where one can build a multitude of contraptions. Modern sets offer only one choice

4. With the large part count, who wants to go through the process of disassembling 2000+ part model and build something else? 

 

 

[Kostq]

I liked the idea of 9398, 42082, whatever the big Xerion was and the Unimog's B models too - keep the chassis, rebuild SOME of the addons, get a fresh eye on the set. That way you don't get the part with 2000 pieces rebuild just to try the B-model and about a week of evenings a bit wasted.

OR... you know, buy 2 😂

The 42078 and 42098 B models were amazing and I wouldn't discard them at all.

I think old Technic b-models and mocs at the time of mocpages and beyond weren't that desperately dependent on smoothness. Now in order to sell a Moc it's got to be curve-perfect and no blue pins and hide the gears if possible, you know the drill...

[howitzer]

Taking apart large models is indeed very painful, and much more so today than in the 90's as taking out pins is the most painful part of the process. Disassembling A-model to make a B-model which probably isn't nearly as good, doesn't feel very appealing. I sort of miss the B-models too, but as a matter of fact, I haven't built any B-models in ages even for the sets that have one. Most of the time, I just take the thing apart and sort the parts into my collection.

[DrJimbo]

I actually like taking apart large models and sorting the pieces. A different sort of relaxation to building - less concentration required. And then there is the anticipation of building the next MOC from the parts.

[howitzer]

22 hours ago, DrJimbo said:

I actually like taking apart large models and sorting the pieces. A different sort of relaxation to building - less concentration required. And then there is the anticipation of building the next MOC from the parts.

This is true, but I feel that taking apart a large set is painful, in a very literal sense that it makes fingers hurt a lot. With studful sets you can at least use a brick separator for most parts.

[Aleh]

As usual my questions does not relates to any topic + I don't want to create separate one for simply one queestion, so asking here:
I saw on youtube a video of lego phone holder on wheels for smooth filming - who's was this? Need to build something asap)

[Aleh]

Ok, found 

 

[Jurss]

[allanp]

So what goodies did y'all get for Christmas?! Of course this would included gifts "from you to you" to build over the holidays. 

I didn't get anything officially Lego, I did get 3 entirely different things.

1) Buwizz 3.0 with 2 Buwizz motors. I had resisted this for a long time as it wasn't pure Lego but now that I have them, I really wish I had got them sooner. It's brilliant, better than I though it would be. So far I haven't needed any kind of documentation. It just works like PF and boy does it work. I threw together a test chassis with drive and steering and the thing spun its wheels and darted across the living room like a rocket, the power is fantastic! And with the 4 PU ports and 2 PF ports I can use every motor (except the old 4.5v motors) Lego ever made, including the 9v ungeared motor. Yes! And with the built in Lipo battery I don't have to worry about batteries. This is gonna be great to work with! There are some limitations compared to PU, as much as I dislike coding, the code blocks of PU do allow for far more complex ways of controlling and mixing outputs. But for most things I'm sure there will be some work around and will be worth it for the extra power and lipo battery. Verdict: Highly recommended.

2) Green Gecko i6 mk2 6 cylinder LPE complete kit. What a great kit! The kit came with mostly genuine Lego parts except for the 6 small pneumatic cylinders which were Mould King, however this isn't a bad thing as those cylinders have a nice, shiny metal rod as opposed to Legos black plastic rod, and they seem to be of very good quality. All pneumatic parts also come pre modified (ports drilled for greater air flow, valves modified to move freely, etc) and the photo instructions were easy enough to follow, not quite as good a Lego instructions but still more than good enough, and the engine runs great with lots of power, comparable to 2 buggy motors. Verdict: Also highly recommended and a joy to build.

3) A counterfeit Technic clone brand reindeer beetle thing. This was a gift so I really don't want to sound ungrateful, it's the thought that counts and for that I really am grateful, but I cannot recommend this at all to anyone and I'm just gonna let loose on this! It was the worst build experience I've ever had.

Firstly the not so bad. The instructions were...okay.....and the many all black parts of the build had no negative effect on the build experience for me personally. I could find parts just as easily as a genuine Technic set and could see where they needed to go just as easily. However the number bags only went up to 5 or 6, so the pile of parts to look through when opening each bag felt too big but that's a problem with genuine Technic also. Why do bigger Technic sets only have bag numbers that go up to something like 5 or 6, while large brick built sets get bag numbers go up into the 70's?! It's really this that makes parts hard to find I think. I have always said that I do actually like some tasteful colour coding of parts like they had in the 90's. I don't advocate for this extreme level of all blackness only because it can look a bit boring if it's too monochromatic, but it really was no problem in terms of the build experience. Everything else however was just terrible.

Parts were found in the wrong numbered bags, some parts were missing entirely, the parts that was there were of very low quality with pins really not wanting to snap into the holes, and when you had to snap multiple pins together it took way too much effort, I damaged many pins with excess force. The whole design was also terrible. It starts with a very large and cumbersome front end using too many pieces to build a basic steering and suspension setup and the build only gets worse from there. Many things kept falling off, the roof is held in place by 2 studs and out of frustration I ended up literally supergluing the whole thing. You would think that the designer used poor building techniques in an effort to arrive at some great looking final result but no, it looks like crap! And after assembling well over 2000 individual pieces of crap you get suspension, steering that barely works and a flat 4 engine, and that's it. Oh wait, you do get non functional brake disks and callipers, attached to the outside of the wheel, and the callipers spin with the disks. The only reason I completed the build was because the gift giver wanted to see it finished, but it was no fun at all. Verdict: Crap!

In summary, I had a fantastic Christmas and I hope you all did too! Whilst the counterfeit nonsense appeared to be produced by those only interested in making a quick buck, the LPE engine and the Buwizz was clearly made by those who have a genuine passion for their product and they will make fantastic additions to my collection. Merry Christmas and a happy and prosperous new year to you all 

Edited December 27, 2022 by allanp

[msk6003]

I get 1 official lego(but friends set) and 1 non-official lego and 1 non-lego thing.

1. Friends 41712 Recycling truck

This time in S.korea, almost of local community joined together and did Brickorea convention in samsung coex(12/19~1/8. If you living or traveling in korea try to come here! This is free exhibition.). While joining this, one of people in my community give me those set. I heard another garbage truck will come in 2023 city so planned to display both together.

2. Buwizz 3.0 + 2 Buwizz motor

They did 20% sale during Christmas so I bought one set. But not actually use money in my bank, insted I use paypal balance which I get from selling instruction in rebrickable.

3. Tamiya hot shot RC

Connecting to 2, I planned to make this buggy as lego RC model because I think those model's design is very good since when I was very young. Anyway, for build real model to lego model, I bought original hot shot for comparison with model I will make. I planned use buwizz and buwizz motor for this model so bought no.2 things.   

Edited December 28, 2022 by msk6003

[Seasider]

Hello all, I’ve recently bought the Zetros (v1) in a sale and just seen that in their Boxing Day sale they have the xl  motor and medium angular motor for sale.

are they worth the purchase to expand my powered up / control+ collection ? I haven’t tried either app as yet

[allanp]

2 hours ago, Seasider said:

Hello all, I’ve recently bought the Zetros (v1) in a sale and just seen that in their Boxing Day sale they have the xl  motor and medium angular motor for sale.

are they worth the purchase to expand my powered up / control+ collection ? I haven’t tried either app as yet

Has the Zetros arrived? Maybe before you build it you could use the hub and motors to try out the PU app and see how you get on with it.

[Seasider]

6 hours ago, allanp said:

Has the Zetros arrived? Maybe before you build it you could use the hub and motors to try out the PU app and see how you get on with it.

Yes it’s arrived but I don’t have it in my hands and not built it yet. And the Lego sale ends on the 31st

[2GodBDGlory]

9 hours ago, Seasider said:

Hello all, I’ve recently bought the Zetros (v1) in a sale and just seen that in their Boxing Day sale they have the xl  motor and medium angular motor for sale.

are they worth the purchase to expand my powered up / control+ collection ? I haven’t tried either app as yet

In my opinion, probably not. The Xl motor, to me, is simply a lot worse than the L-motor. Other people's analysis seems to give it slightly better performance than the L-motor, but it's only a small advantage, in fairly rare situations. Because it's so much bigger, I don't think it's worth it.
The medium linear one could be handy if it's still on sale, but on the site I checked (US or Canada; I'm not sure which), it wasn't on sale at the moment.