42115 - Lamborghini Sian FKP 37

[Zerobricks]

1 minute ago, allanp said:

With Lego's capability of releasing new parts why are they limited to 2 ratios? For the investment in new parts they get gearboxes that are more realistic, more reliable, more robust, have less friction, have less backlash, are easier to build and require less parts making it cheaper in the long run. I don't see why they wouldn't do this, apart from TLG's well known fascination for making choices that make no sense  Honestly, why do they insist on making gearboxes that are more complicated than the real life car with all the problems that come with that and the higher part counts required? Perhaps they couldn't do it all in one set but with each subsequent UCS car release I would expect to see 2 or 3 new pieces to steer their transmissions in a more realistic, less complex direction.

Just adding a simple 24 tooth clucth gear would make designing gearboxes so much easier...

[Ngoc Nguyen]

If there's a new 12z clutch gear, what are the ways to make it mesh with the driving ring?

[Zerobricks]

1 minute ago, Ngoc Nguyen said:

If there's a new 12z clutch gear, what are the ways to make it mesh with the driving ring?

I don't think a 12 tooth clutch gear can work because the shifter ring has a larger diameter than the 12 tooth gear - it would get jammed.

Edited May 22, 2020 by Zerobricks

[howitzer]

1 minute ago, Zerobricks said:

I don't think a 12 tooth clutch gear can work because the shifter ring has a larger diameter than the 12 tooth gear - it would get jammed.

I guess it could be done with a new driving ring extension especially designed for this purpose or maybe by designing the 12 tooth gear with an external clutch (imagine the clutch part of 16 teeth gear fused side-by-side with normal 12 teeth gear so it's 2 studs wide). But if I had to make a bet I'd say there won't be a 12 tooth clutch gear in this set.

[Zerobricks]

1 minute ago, howitzer said:

I guess it could be done with a new driving ring extension especially designed for this purpose or maybe by designing the 12 tooth gear with an external clutch (imagine the clutch part of 16 teeth gear fused side-by-side with normal 12 teeth gear so it's 2 studs wide). But if I had to make a bet I'd say there won't be a 12 tooth clutch gear in this set.

Combining a 12 tooth gear and the ring extension into a single part would work, yes. You could use same design for an 8 tooth clutch gear. Adding a 24 tooth clutch gear would allow you to make a simple gearbox with the following possible ratios in a simple 2 stud offset:

1:3

1:1,67

1:1

1,67:1

3:1

Of course changing the offset you could have even more, different ratos.

But for now this is just speculation and I doubt TLG would go so far to design so many new clutch gears

What I expect is an improved gearbox from the Chiron using the new biscuit pieces and a proper central diff.

[pleegwat]

As the 'real sian' sketch shows, you don't really need 8z or 12z clutch gears if you can instead clutch on the 20z or 24z gears on the other side.

Rather, you'd probably want to add a 28z clutch gear in addition to a 24z one to make 7 ratios. And then the next size up is 32z which AFAIK doesn't exist even in non-clutch version.

[TeamThrifty]

28z wouldn't fit in 3L gearbox... 24z/8z is as big as you can go..

[allanp]

11 minutes ago, TeamThrifty said:

28z wouldn't fit in 3L gearbox... 24z/8z is as big as you can go..

It can be done if you offset one of the shafts to the side. But really the biggest problem is the overall length of the gearbox, it becomes really long with the 3 module long drive rings (at least 20 studs for an 8 speed transmission, which I guess isn't that improbable considering the Criron gearbox was also crazy long when you include the forward/neutral/reverse section, which this gearbox wouldn't need). A redesign of the whole drive ring system would be beneficial to bring them down to ideally 1 module in length (so for an 8 speed you would have 8 gears and 4 drive rings within a 12 stud length) which is actually possible believe it or not. Or if the drive rings were 2 module in length an 8 speed would be 16 studs long, which is still manageable. It's not what I expect from the Sian but it's just what I would do if I were designing it. I would rather have a long but accurate gearbox than a bunched up inaccurate one.

Edited May 22, 2020 by allanp

[pleegwat]

Obviously, you'd have to pick an appropriate distance. This is a 2¼ studs between axles setup with 6 speeds, if you swapped in all the appropriate clutch gears. Sure, it's long, but I don't think it actually uses more volume than they're expending on gearboxes currently.

(And a 7th gear needs a 4z or 32z gearwheel. Or a more complex setup.)

[Cardboy]

I think a smaller clutch gear could be possible if you look at this image of the new Ducati the centre break-disk clearly looks like it could be "engaged" so we could see a smiler design and a new extension ring to accommodate the clutch selector.

Edited May 22, 2020 by Cardboy

[Vectormatic]

regarding pushrod suspension, i dont think the "but the real car has it, so now they have to" argument holds water, there are soooo many technical inaccuracies on the GT3RS and Chiron that i dont expect any new feature to be included because the real lambo has anything.

 

[pleegwat]

I can't imagine the brake disk not being coupled to the axle, and if it is a clutch connection doesn't make sense.

[Rudivdk]

1 minute ago, vectormatic said:

regarding pushrod suspension, i dont think the "but the real car has it, so now they have to" argument holds water, there are soooo many technical inaccuracies on the GT3RS and Chiron that i dont expect any new feature to be included because the real lambo has anything.

I fear the same, although I think the Lambo suspension is such a trademark for them, it would be weird if they didn't request TLG to include it. Same with the double clutch gearbox on the Porsche and the rear wing-with-key on the Chiron (although they totally screwed the suspension on both those cars, both in reallife accuracy and in plain functionality...). I still have hope until someone smashes it in a review...

[Cardboy]

5 minutes ago, pleegwat said:

I can't imagine the brake disk not being coupled to the axle, and if it is a clutch connection doesn't make sense.

But  then the extra moulding doesn't make sense unless Lego have another idea for that part.

[allanp]

Just now, Cardboy said:

But  then the extra moulding doesn't make sense unless Lego have another idea for that part.

I think the extra moulding is just to space the disk out to be 1 full module thick at its hub.

[TeamThrifty]

8 minutes ago, vectormatic said:

i dont think the "but the real car has it, so now they have to" argument holds water

Suspension.. my favourite! It does on something as siginificant as suspension.. what is a supercar? Engine, transmission, chassis and suspension. Everything else is just a pretty frock its wearing. They may as well stick a straight 4 engine in it and use the same argument... TLG and Mocers go to immense effort to recreate the same number of gears and the same engine layout, and stick a spring between two 5L liftarms and call it suspension.. blows my mind that such attention to detail can be so selective and ignore such a massive technical element... i've raised it so many times, and no mocers have ever replied to say why they didn't try harder with suspension. Why moan loudly over the absence of ackerman steering, but not the inaccurate suspension... and the modded version never address it either. Everyone is suspension blind!!   

[Cardboy]

Just now, allanp said:

I think the extra moulding is just to space the disk out to be 1 full module thick at its hub.

Could be or to allow it to sit more flush into the Rim but it seems a lot of effort for a piece that in this instance is purely cosmetic and could be done with a lot simpler moulding.

[Rudivdk]

11 minutes ago, TeamThrifty said:

Everyone is suspension blind!!

Funny thing is that what I had built in my last 1:10 car MOC (wow, it is WIP for a LOOONG time now, need to dust it off and pick up on it again...) has almost the same setup as a Lambo does (but not quite solid enough to pass as LEGO official set in this configuration...).

Long arm in the bottom, short arm in the top, caster angle, small kingpin inclination, ackermann geometry, pushrods with bridge at suspension base to 'horizontal' springs:

Come on TLG, you can do this better than me...

[SNIPE]

9 hours ago, Zerobricks said:

I don't think a 12 tooth clutch gear can work because the shifter ring has a larger diameter than the 12 tooth gear - it would get jammed.

yeah this is true, a 12 tooth idler would be nice though.

The only way would be to have a part thats a female clutch ring fused to a 12 tooth idler gear in one part. it will be 2L thick though, 1L for the female clutch ring and 1L for the 12 tooth gear bit but again in just one part.

The new shocks that come with the 42107 ducati  can be paired with a small LA to get either adjustable suspention stroke, or adjustable ride height depending on how you hook it up.

Edited May 23, 2020 by SNIPE
oh you already had this idea NM lol

[efferman]

This is a 14Z Clutch, but the difference to a 12z wouldnt be so much. This was made for the old driving ring.

Edited May 23, 2020 by efferman

[Silvavasil]

Have forum rules changed? It seemed to me that photos of leaks were not published here before.

[valenciaeric]

10 minutes ago, Silvavasil said:

Have forum rules changed? It seemed to me that photos of leaks were not published here before.

Perhaps the difference is these are actual pictures of the real box and not watermarked catalogue pictures. If Lego have made the set available to people other than reviewers who are embargoed till 1st June, then it is fair game to publish pics of the set.

[ctx1769]

I hope that the car isn't a Lambo body with a Skoda chassis  , seriously it does look better than the previous cars with no spaces. I did think it would be olive green instead of lime, but it still looks the part.

[Wimmer]

9 hours ago, ctx1769 said:

I hope that the car isn't a Lambo body with a Skoda chassis  , seriously it does look better than the previous cars with no spaces. I did think it would be olive green instead of lime, but it still looks the part.

They would call that a “kit-car” here in the US.  They were really popular using Pontiac Fierro’s chassis and then on the outside a fake Ferrari Testa Rossa body on it ...

But back to the real car...  We’re now only a week away for the “official” release (AND availability to sell to VIP’s) of the set.  
I was looking at the inside of the box what contains the little boxes with parts and I think that there might be six boxes in there. The two green ones on the sides, and then the black “chevron” shaped area contains (maybe) out of four separate boxes as well. 

Either way. I expect almost that LEGO might leak some more stuff over this long weekend; since people are at home and have an extra day.  They would reach a lot of their clients in one moment. 

Edited May 23, 2020 by Wimmer
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[SNIPE]

What we need is a gear that can mesh with an 8 tooth or 12 tooth gear diagonally in a 2x2 pinhole grid (or on a 3x5, 2x4 or 3x3 L/T beam)

Not sure if any other gear would be compatable with it however for the lambo gearbox or other mechanisms.