The LEGO Batman Movie Set/CMF Rumors & Discussion

[Robert8]

29 minutes ago, linnormlord said:

My mistake! Good catch, the cape is different after all. I didn't even check...

Clearly they didn't want to spend any money on new capes for these. That's why Baturion gets a generic cape and Easter Bat gets no cape. But why change Easter Bat's hand color?

 

I really want these, but it will be a lot less urgent if I know they will also appear in the CMF series. If we expect the CMF series to be released in January, when will we know what will be in it for sure? December? Do I pick it up just in case one of the suits is exclusive? Or do I wait for the CMF line?

With the exception of Maggie in Simpsons S2, ther CMF are never re-releases (thank god!), so I wouldn't expect these to be in Series 2

[1980-Something-Space-Guy]

22 minutes ago, Mat099 said:

That's the most disapointing: those capes already exist!  

Wouldn't pink power Batgirl's cape be a better match? I know it has the funny texture, but it seems closer to the right tone to me.

[linnormlord]

45 minutes ago, Mat099 said:

That's the most disapointing: those capes already exist!   

Personally, I will purchase the TrU "exclusive" boxset, just in case...   But for those who know better than me, can we generally found the minifigures offered in those bricktober boxset elsewhere?   The 2016 bricktober minifigs seem to be exclusive...

Missed the red cape on Red Hood, thanks! The cape on Easter Bat may be a different color though. But they didn't put ANY cape there.

The bricktober figs in the past have all been "exclusive," even if that meant sometimes uninspired recycling of parts from previous CMF.

44 minutes ago, rob-ot5000 said:

If you want these, I wouldn't recommend waiting for the CMF series.

This guy knows what he's talking about! Duly noted, I will definitely pick this up then.

Do we have the exact US dates yet? Second week of October yes, but starting and ending what day of the week?

Edited September 5, 2017 by linnormlord

[Merch]

47 minutes ago, BrickHat said:

Wouldn't pink power Batgirl's cape be a better match? I know it has the funny texture, but it seems closer to the right tone to me.

I think you're right. The cape is supposed to be the same colour as the basket, which looks dark pink.

[Fadervader]

Hi all!

Long time reader first time poster

I'm super excited to now be part of this awesome community! :D

Just wanted to let you know that the German toys r us site is now claiming the batman bricktober pack is "Leider bereits vergriffen" which after translation means unfortunately sold out on their home page however when actually go to the item page they say they are still available to click and collect and not available for delivery

screen caps:

hope my images uploaded correctly 

so if this is true I cant believe how quickly these have gone, I just hope that more do become available :\

Thanks

Edited September 5, 2017 by Fadervader

[brew]

@Captain Britain Thank you ! I agree, overall they're all pretty good... maybe except Dollar bat which I think is waay better in white

@linnormlord Yeah you're right. Thanks for pics :) The pole does look short like in the book but this piece is easily changeable. A bummer they didn't made new colors for existing parts

@Mat099 Good eye ! Didn't saw it either... I'm not sure about the pink but the Bunny suit pink looks more pastel/light (not sure it exist for the hand also, maybe that's why they kept the black hands from the book) to me and for the Baturion cape, it's definitly not the right color looks dark red while Red Hood's cape is red

Edited September 5, 2017 by brew

[GoldenNinja3000]

The bunny suit has a pink cape and the Baturion suit has a dark red cape, so no existing capes will work perfectly. Pink Power Batgirl's cape is dark pink, Batgirl's is lavender, and Red Hood's is regular red. 

[Mat099]

Sadly, it looks like you guys are right in both case...

[Huigberts Builds]

2 hours ago, Fadervader said:

Hi all!

Long time reader first time poster

I'm super excited to now be part of this awesome community! :D

Just wanted to let you know that the German toys r us site is now claiming the batman bricktober pack is "Leider bereits vergriffen" which after translation means unfortunately sold out on their home page however when actually go to the item page they say they are still available to click and collect and not available for delivery. 

It appears they're also sold out in The Netherlands. For some reason it also says the set is now €12,99 instead of €14,99 like it was yesterday. Oh and welcome btw! 

[Borex]

5 hours ago, Huigberts Builds said:

It appears they're also sold out in The Netherlands. For some reason it also says the set is now €12,99 instead of €14,99 like it was yesterday. Oh and welcome btw! 

You could have ordered it since last week. That's why people have to act quickly on this. 

[DrasticPlastic]

The Lego accounts and Toys R Us updates confirmed 'weak'demand for Lego Batman sets.

Why do we think that is?

I have been delighted with the sets and I think this sub theme has produced the best minifigs ever, better than even the strongest (non Batman) CMF line up and makes the DC figs scheduled for 2018 look very weak.

If I had to speculate as to the problems it would be the release of too many sets (there's been a lot, although I love the fact it gives choice) and price. The Joker's low rider and Killer Croc's vehicle were atleast 30% too high.

It worries me that Lego might see these Batman movie as a mistake, that might lead to the standard of the minifigs getting rolled back. I refer back to the really rather bland 2018 figures and hate to think that's the direction we'll be heading back to.

 

[Kim-Kwang-Seok]

32 minutes ago, DrasticPlastic said:

The Lego accounts and Toys R Us updates confirmed 'weak'demand for Lego Batman sets.

Why do we think that is?

I have been delighted with the sets and I think this sub theme has produced the best minifigs ever, better than even the strongest (non Batman) CMF line up and makes the DC figs scheduled for 2018 look very weak.

If I had to speculate as to the problems it would be the release of too many sets (there's been a lot, although I love the fact it gives choice) and price. The Joker's low rider and Killer Croc's vehicle were atleast 30% too high.

It worries me that Lego might see these Batman movie as a mistake, that might lead to the standard of the minifigs getting rolled back. I refer back to the really rather bland 2018 figures and hate to think that's the direction we'll be heading back to.

 

This already happened. Not just that they didn't evolve, or kept the same standards: quality of JL & comming DC sets has decreased A LOT!. The Superman from 2013 was better, than this years version, with a silly face & plain pants.

In any case: TLG overinvested. So many movies, so many sets, and bigger sets, as well! The question is: how could TLG not calculate for this?

[Anonknee Muss]

On 5 September 2017 at 3:34 AM, PepperoniBricks said:

Definitely a much better Bricktober than so many we've seen previously.

Agreed! Last year's was just a mish mash of random pieces.

[linnormlord]

6 hours ago, DrasticPlastic said:

The Lego accounts and Toys R Us updates confirmed 'weak'demand for Lego Batman sets.

Why do we think that is?

I have been delighted with the sets and I think this sub theme has produced the best minifigs ever, better than even the strongest (non Batman) CMF line up and makes the DC figs scheduled for 2018 look very weak.

If I had to speculate as to the problems it would be the release of too many sets (there's been a lot, although I love the fact it gives choice) and price. The Joker's low rider and Killer Croc's vehicle were atleast 30% too high.

It worries me that Lego might see these Batman movie as a mistake, that might lead to the standard of the minifigs getting rolled back. I refer back to the really rather bland 2018 figures and hate to think that's the direction we'll be heading back to.

A very interesting question!

I have a thought with regards to TLBM merchandising and sets. While AFOLs like most of us here are eager to get obscure characters and quirky designs, and will collect many (every?) set in a series, most children's toys are purchased by non-fan parents for their children. The Tail-Gator set will have little appeal if the non-fan parent can't recognize the characters and balks at the sticker price. Too many sets based on background characters, while Batman was the same in all of them. Kid wants a Batman set? Buy one and move on. 

In short, TLBM sets had more appeal for FANS (a small fraction of sales) than for non-fan parents (a large fraction of sales).

And there's already more on the way. 

But ... a lot of the business decision doesn't have to do with sales too. They are cutting 8% of their workforce, while profits are down by less than that. That means that they think they can increase profit by cutting costs, not just by cutting the product line. When a company grows very quickly like TLG did, they may be less efficient with their spending in order to grow quickly. When things slow down, they go back and try to make it more efficient.

In short, they may not make any real changes to their product range after all. They will however rethink how much merchandising a movie can support.

[Robert8]

This LEGO Batman Movie line is way too big

I wonder how CMF Series 2 and wave 3 are going to perform on sales next winter

And there are "regular" DC sets also featuring Batman

 

[AnnaBuildsLego]

I agree that the weak sales can be attributed to the line being much too huge. There were WAY too many sets to choose from, and like @linnormlord said, many kids would probably just want a Batman and wouldn't care to get any other sets for obscure figures (even though those weird obscure figures would please many AFOLs). LEGO vastly over-calculated how many of these sets would be bought. Had the line been smaller and more condensed, it would have performed better. As it was; too much choice meant that some models would inevitably be left on the shelves because kids could only afford one, and kids can already get Batman in the main DC sets anyway. LEGO essentially released two whole waves of products together as one wave, expecting this colossal amount of choice to sell like wildfire because of their popularity and Batman's enduring fame, but they simply put too much unnecessary stuff on the shelves. Some of the sets could surely have been axed or left for a wave 2 if the first bunch performed well, which arguably I believe they would have.

The sets were of course also very mismatched in price range. If a kid just wanted Batman, they could pick up the Joker escape and be done with it. Meanwhile, you have the Joker's Lowrider, which may be a pretty car, but you're getting the same 2 characters and one extra and one car to zoom around for €50. That's not good value for kids at all.

On a personal level - perhaps just me being a jaded DC fan - I'm a bit tired of Batman's over-saturation in DC products as a whole. He's already everywhere. Having a colossal line dedicated to a movie about him is pushing that to the extreme when he also appears constantly in regular DC sets.

Overall - the line was too wide. I think it would have performed much better as simply a cheaper, more conventional Batmobile, Arkham Asylum, a smaller Bat Cave, a cheaper Joker's Lowrider, and Catwoman Chase with a Batman figure; plus the CMF series but with fewer figures.

I think that making a Series 2 of the CMFs is an ill-advised plan, and feel that it will go the way of Simpson's Series 2 in terms of a lack of interest.

Edited September 6, 2017 by AnnaBuildsLego

[Borex]

14 minutes ago, AnnaBuildsLego said:

I think that making a Series 2 of the CMFs is an ill-advised plan, and feel that it will go the way of Simpson's Series 2 in terms of a lack of interest.

I don't think so myself. The Simpsons each had different headpieces, almost non lego headpieces, not very usefull outside of Simpsonland. Batman has regular minifigs. Plus a good variation of superheroes and villains ( i assume). If they manage to give a few minifigs new or recolored accessoires, or new dualmoulded legs/arms people will like to buy them. A few cute ones for the cute fans, a few angry ones for the violent types. I think it will do ok. I even think this series has the potential to be better at least for me :-) (i'm not a dc fan, but i like wacky figs like clock king)

[RedHoodPug]

I'm missing the part where TLG announced TLBM as a failure. Unless deliberately mentioning that the theme was a success is double speak, I'm of the impression that it has fared well. When they list their own IPs and Batman, that suggests it is doing well. I know we are flailing wildly off topic with this, but I personally think that there are other factors at play here, Dimensions being one of them, and most of the other licensed property outside of DC, Marvel, Potter and SW as well. Without putting on my investigative nerd specs, I would say that the blame does not lie with TLBM, but something more serious.

[DrasticPlastic]

1 hour ago, AnnaBuildsLego said:

Overall - the line was too wide. I think it would have performed much better as simply a cheaper, more conventional Batmobile, Arkham Asylum, a smaller Bat Cave, a cheaper Joker's Lowrider, and Catwoman Chase with a Batman figure; plus the CMF series but with fewer figures.

I think that making a Series 2 of the CMFs is an ill-advised plan, and feel that it will go the way of Simpson's Series 2 in terms of a lack of interest.

I think you get two types of buyers:

1) less affluent / more casual; (kids and grandparent gifts) and

2) richer / mega fan (birthday and AFOL crowd)

The less affluent/casual are less concerned with quality, they'll take what they can afford. The richer/bigger fan is paying more, and wants to get more.

In practice this means you are pitching small, cheap sets or big, expensive sets and middle of the road 400-700 brick $40-$80 dollar sets aren't really anyone's first choice - they are too expensive for the less affluent but lack the size/scale/detail the richer/bigger fan wants.

The LBM had a lot of these middle of the road sets. Killer Croc was far too expensive for the less affluent but not really good enough for the richer/bigger fan.

Solutions? Here's 2:

1) reduce the number of medium size sets, ensure you have a lot of eye catching smaller sets with interesting figures and also a good range of large and impressive big sets.

We could have lost the standard batmobile and kept the ultimate one. We could have lost the joker's low rider and had those figs in a $/£20 Joker Ballon set.

2) really focus the efforts on high quality medium value sets that are just in reach of the less affluent but still have the quality the richer buyers demand. This is what lego has done with Ninjago Movie. There are a large number of medium priced sets that are well above average quality with just 2 big sets and 2 really small sets.

Whatever Lego decides, I hope they don't sacrifice quality. Those 2018 DC sets are just rubbish - they are neither cheap nor good. The figures are bland. These sets delight few, if any. That's not the way to win sales.

 

 

Edited September 6, 2017 by DrasticPlastic

[RedHoodPug]

37 minutes ago, DrasticPlastic said:

2 hours ago, AnnaBuildsLego said:

 

I think you get two types of buyers:

1) less affluent / more casual; (kids and grandparent gifts) and

2) richer / mega fan (birthday and AFOL crowd)

I'm a less affluent mega fan.

37 minutes ago, DrasticPlastic said:

2) really focus the efforts on high quality medium value sets that are just in reach of the less affluent but still have the quality the richer buyers demand. This is what lego has done with Ninjago Movie. There are a large number of medium priced sets that are well above average quality with just 2 big sets and 2 really small sets.

We've only seen the first wave and it's an in house IP. Even when the whole line for both themes are out and finished, you can't really compare the bottom line. The cost of accessing Batman et al to TLG is an unknown to us mere mortals. Then you have other factors like man hours, were the exact same designers used on both themes (probably not), did they forecast a comparable result (again, probably not) and the variables in demographic, i.e. Ninjago doesn't have the same number of fans as Batman, it's not possible. 

Blaming obscure characters is also moot, because to the casual buyer - child or adult - all of the Ninjago characters are obscure, especially the fish-based villains. DC already has a long established fan base, Ninjago has been going for like, a tenth of the time Batman has. Does DC have a greater reach outside of Lego sets than Ninjago? Yes. Does it cost more to develop a DC product than an in house IP? Undoubtedly.

 The only comparable themes would be the two sides of Superheroes or Ninjago and Nexo Knights. And then you need how much it costs to use DC vs Marvel and how popular Ninjago is compared to NK. Otherwise it's a quagmire of data currently not at my disposal, and this is the wrong thread for it, really.

[vstat05]

I think we had a fair number of sets, but everything was expensive. The only set that I think wouldn't sell well especially would be the Two Face set. Even i'm growing a bit tired of Batman, which is why I'm glad the next CMF wave seems to be mainly Super Friends and other DC characters, but there are plenty of villains and variants that they could make that would get my interest. This is why I think they should have went with Ventriloquist, Hush, Mad Hatter, Maxie Zeus, Firefly, maybe even Deadshot, over people like Calculator, Mime, and Tarantula. It was fun seeing all these villains but theres a point where there are obscure characters that are notable and fun and look great as a minifigure to those that don't.

[Anonknee Muss]

I think the CMF Series is worthwhile investment in the theme. Although I agree to some extent with the obscure characters not having much effect sales like @RedHoodPug said, I do believe when sold separately they definitely won't sell as well as the more recognised characters in the series. We need most obscure characters in the sets and some recognised characters in the CMF Series as I think it is almost like a promotion for the movie. I agree with @makoy on the fact that we need more bat suits that ultimately aimed towards children (as well as some AFOLS), this will promote the movie further I believe.

[linnormlord]

51 minutes ago, RedHoodPug said:

I'm a less affluent mega fan.

We've only seen the first wave and it's an in house IP. Even when the whole line for both themes are out and finished, you can't really compare the bottom line. The cost of accessing Batman et al to TLG is an unknown to us mere mortals. Then you have other factors like man hours, were the exact same designers used on both themes (probably not), did they forecast a comparable result (again, probably not) and the variables in demographic, i.e. Ninjago doesn't have the same number of fans as Batman, it's not possible. 

Blaming obscure characters is also moot, because to the casual buyer - child or adult - all of the Ninjago characters are obscure, especially the fish-based villains. DC already has a long established fan base, Ninjago has been going for like, a tenth of the time Batman has. Does DC have a greater reach outside of Lego sets than Ninjago? Yes. Does it cost more to develop a DC product than an in house IP? Undoubtedly.

 The only comparable themes would be the two sides of Superheroes or Ninjago and Nexo Knights. And then you need how much it costs to use DC vs Marvel and how popular Ninjago is compared to NK. Otherwise it's a quagmire of data currently not at my disposal, and this is the wrong thread for it, really.

You make some great points. I just want to point out that in the eyes of a 5-8 child, Ninjago and Batman are equally old - they are both older than the child can remember or fathom. Children have a very narrow time span in which to familiarize with and become fans of any property and its characters. For a company, putting out toys of any character that children aren't already invested in is a financial risk.

From my earlier comment, I actually think that Lego's financial problem and downsizing actually have nothing to do with their toys, and it's all about the money that they sunk - inefficiently - into the infrastructure while growing mega fast, and now they need to make the underlying business infrastructure more efficient. 

As collectors, I think we are discussing our purchasing decisions and collecting habits more than we are analyzing TLG's decisions. For me, I knew I couldn't buy every TLBM set early on, so I lean in the direction of "there are too many sets and they are too expensive." If I had bought them all (such as ~every Marvel set from 2012-2016) I would be arguing that "the number of sets, the set sizes, and the prices have been fine."

[Anonknee Muss]

Just now, Raptor of Vengeance said:

I think we had a fair number of sets, but everything was expensive. The only set that I think wouldn't sell well especially would be the Two Face set. Even i'm growing a bit tired of Batman, which is why I'm glad the next CMF wave seems to be mainly Super Friends and other DC characters, but there are plenty of villains and variants that they could make that would get my interest. This is why I think they should have went with Ventriloquist, Hush, Mad Hatter, Maxie Zeus, Firefly, maybe even Deadshot, over people like Calculator, Mime, and Tarantula. It was fun seeing all these villains but theres a point where there are obscure characters that are notable and fun and look great as a minifigure to those that don't.

 I agree, everything was rather expensive and for children (who were the main target audience) these sets are too out of their league to purchase and collect them all.

[Agent Kallus]

2 hours ago, RedHoodPug said:

I'm missing the part where TLG announced TLBM as a failure. Unless deliberately mentioning that the theme was a success is double speak, I'm of the impression that it has fared well. 

Yes.

Well as I mentioned in the 'Lego's economic woes' thread in UK newspaper the metro The Lego Batman Movie was listed and one of the most successful product lines of the first half of 2017 (with data supposedly from tlg) so I doubt they will announce it as failure as that would be dishonest.