122 replies to this topic

[LEGOman273]

I don't see a problem with allowing rabid-fanbase License MOCs to be a part of CUUSOO. I foam at the mouth at even the thought of a Theed Palace, or Cloud City DS-Playset-style set. However, I think that TLG should moderate the ideas better. As SotD is rated R, there was not much chance of its being made into a set. Thus, TLG should have shot it down as quickly as they do for "Rerelease this!", "I want this part!", thereby not dissapointing 10K+ people. TLG should issue strict rules as to what can and cannot be presented: (I.E. No licenses of a rating higher than PG-13.)
This would eliminate most of the impossible 10K-reaching sets.
BTW, everyone should vote for "Space Marines!", as doing so will give us the chance to see if TLG really intends to use%

Edited by LEGOman273, 27 April 2012 - 07:00 PM.

[Lyichir]

No. I think the fandom-based models will genuinely drive sales. Maybe not everyone who voted for the Minecraft set will buy it. But many will, and on top of that Minecraft fans who didn't vote for it may end up buying it as well.

On top of that, what would be the result if licenses were banned? Not only would these massively successful projects be stunted, less traffic would go to the Cuusoo site as a whole. It'd be interesting to analyze how many people joined to support the fandom of their choice, but stuck around to support projects like the Modular Western Town (which might never have gotten as many votes if only AFOLs voted for it).

Another issue would arise if, as some have suggested, licenses to certain companies were banned. How do you decide which companies would license and which wouldn't, without actually going to them with an idea? The way I see it, even licensing with a competitor like Hasbro wouldn't be completely impossible given the right scenario, but if Cuusoo disallowed products based on their intellectual properties it certainly would. A bigger question exists, too: how is LEGO supposed to put the burden of checking an intellectual property's owner on project creators? Let's be honest: LEGO arbitrarily closing projects because they personally know there's no chance of licensing with the rightsholders would create a wave of distrust in the community, and stifle creativity. Even if they compiled a master list of "companies we will not work with", not every creator would check before trying to propose a project.

The way I see it, Cuusoo does best with most limitations eliminated, besides those needed for legal reasons. If projects start failing because LEGO cannot negotiate with the rightsholders, the community will take notice and stop supporting those sorts of projects.

[lisqr]

CUUSOO is NOT about turning great MOCs into products. Take the extreme example, Nannan's mirage. That's about the greatest moc I've seen. Something that I would kowtow to the master for. But we all know it won't sell.

The other side of this is the japanese satellite. It's a good model, but not great by any means. But it catches the attention of some astronomy fans. So it's a good niche market that lego found. I see CUUSOO as a way to combine lego and other hobbies, and not for lego only fans.

Edited by lisqr, 27 April 2012 - 07:10 PM.

[Peppermint_M]

Brickenhead-town-dweller, on 27 April 2012 - 04:06 PM, said:

A what the who now?  

Very Popular Anime Series:




Pic is link to news story.

[Etzel]

My answer: Yes.
I think there are too many ideas about new licences and bringing back themes and parts. Original and unique ideas doesn't get enough spotlight as it is and I don't see the advantages with CUUSOO at its current form.

[lightningtiger]

I say Cuusoo is fantastic and what if the fans get behind a foolish idea, it spurs Lego into different directions and be even more creative. Seriously doesn't everyone think that Lego casts an eye over every idea and think....they that's new and interesting ?
We all look at new sets coming out and sometimes think....hey, that looks like something I did last year ?
I guess we shall wait to see how EVE Online goes and BTTF plus My Little Pony goes when those two ideas reach their goals eh ?

[NiceMarmot]

My answer: Yes, but.

When 9 of 12 top projects are license-related (as they were right before the Rifter qualified), it's pretty clear that Cuusoo is dominated by license fandom.

But that may not be a problem in TLG's perspective, and it's probably fixable.  Primarily by separating licensed and non-licensed projects, and setting clear guidelines about what's acceptable.

I think TLG has several goals for Cuusoo:

• Identify great MOCs that could be made into successful projects
  
• Gather feedback from AFOLs on what kinds of models they like, as well as some market research data from them
  
• Experiment with producing models that require minimal marketing, as they have a built-in fanbase
  
• Find potential new licenses, especially ones that are not mainstream movie-based, or not huge in popular culture

Cuusoo still does a pretty good job with the first two goals, although those are in danger if AFOLs get bored with it and leave because it's swamped by fanboys.  It does a pretty good job with the last item too. I'm sure that SotD, Minecraft, and EVE Online weren't at the top of TLG Marketing Dept's list of potential licenses before Cuusoo.  So it probably helps them to know that there is a reasonably sizable rabid fanbase for those properties. Whether that translates into a product is a different story -- the license has to be negotiated, a theme planned (one set or multiple?), etc. But if the license cost is reasonable, and negotiations with the licensor don't take too much time and put too much strain on TLG's Licensing dept, I don't see why some of these models won't be produced.

From my analysis of TLG's finances, actual production, packaging, and distribution costs are fairly low. R&D is low also; not sure if this includes developing sets.  Looks like a lot of the cost is in marketing.  So if TLG can produce a Cuusoo model and put minimal money into marketing it, they can still turn a decent profit at much lower sales volumes. I think that's what they're experimenting with here -- can we sell enough of these to make a profit with minimal marketing?  As a private company, they may not be so concerned about margin and EPS and such. An extra dollar (or DKK) in profit is an extra dollar, regardless of whether the margin on that extra sale wasn't as good as the margin on SW or HP, as long as it doesn't tie up too much working capital.

Regarding marketing Cuusoo projects, all you people who voted for Minecraft can expect to get a bunch of emails from TLG pushing you to buy it.

EDIT -- By the way, Modular Western Town is adding about 150-200 supporters per day, so it's definitely not stagnant. At that rate, it will hit 10,000 in about 2-3 weeks!

Edited by NiceMarmot, 27 April 2012 - 10:55 PM.

[Legocrazy81]

lightningtiger, on 27 April 2012 - 10:48 PM, said:

I say Cuusoo is fantastic and what if the fans get behind a foolish idea, it spurs Lego into different directions and be even more creative. Seriously doesn't everyone think that Lego casts an eye over every idea and think....they that's new and interesting ?
We all look at new sets coming out and sometimes think....hey, that looks like something I did last year ?
I guess we shall wait to see how EVE Online goes and BTTF plus My Little Pony goes when those two ideas reach their goals eh ?

I don't see MLP passing even if it does get 10K. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe MLP belongs to Hasbro. All the hub-bub between TLG and Hasbro, I don't see it happening. I have to admit, MLP is a bit addicting. I did watch an episode and it sucked me in.

Edited by Legocrazy81, 28 April 2012 - 04:12 AM.

[Tragic Banjo]

CUUSOO is still in its infancy. I think the fanboy factor will die down a little bit once a few more projects advance to the review stage and people start to get a clearer idea of what will and what won't get accepted. Once more projects get rejected (My Little Pony and the bucket of stormtroopers are simply not happening, for instance), people will realize what sort of projects aren't worth the effort, and will (one would hope) stop supporting them and start throwing a little more support toward the ones more likely to get approved.

[Gory51]

If it was not for EVE online, I would not have gotten back into Lego.

I saw the Rifter a while back when it was first mentioned on the EVE forums. I loved it, I followed the story. I had a "calling" to get back into Lego.
I wanted that Rifter!
I created an account on Cuusoo and voted for it.
I also checked out some other projects and voted on a few that I thought were excellent as well.( Modular Western town, Space marines, and Winchester to name some)
I started buying LEGO again, all previous doubt and inhibitions lost, as I always thought I was too old for it.
I dived in and have never felt happier, It really brings me huge joy to just go and do what was on my mind, but I never ever got around to doing ( partly due to the fact it seems frowned upon by many where I live)
I started with 3 second hand purchases for less than 20% of the new prices on the sets which netted me around 90 smaller sets and one or two medium sets.

I have also bought the following in the last month as well:
9495 Gold Leaders Y-Wing
9492 Tie Fighter
9455 Fangpyre Mech (Ninjago)
9390 Mini Tow Truck ( Technic)
7913 Clone Trooper Battlepack
7288 Mobile police unit
2263 Turbo Shredder ( Ninjago)
2260 Ice Dragon (Ninjago)
8099 Midi Scale Imperial Star Destroyer

I now have over 8800 pieces in about 6 weeks, from those new sets and some excellent second hand buys from moms clearing out old toys.

This is all because I love EVE and I love Lego.
That Rifter bought both of them together.
:D

[mrklaw]

Gory51, on 27 April 2012 - 06:38 PM, said:

The Rifter that was modeled may be a bit bland in terms of  Lego's creativity standards, but remember that Lego will still take this apart and redesign it with their Engineers. What the final product turns out like may be very different.

This is something that worries me too. Of course Lego need to check that models are designed and made well, with efficient use of bricks, no illegal methods and using available parts/colours. But minecraft ended up entirely different to the examples posted on Cuusoo. And the western modular town was already stated to be only one building if it passes.

So what are we voting for? Are we voting for awesome MOCs, or just neat ideas? I'd prefer the former but more and more we seem to be getting the latter. Ideas also require less work potentially, which can result in drowning the original MOCs

lisqr, on 27 April 2012 - 07:08 PM, said:

CUUSOO is NOT about turning great MOCs into products. Take the extreme example, Nannan's mirage. That's about the greatest moc I've seen. Something that I would kowtow to the master for. But we all know it won't sell.

The other side of this is the japanese satellite. It's a good model, but not great by any means. But it catches the attention of some astronomy fans. So it's a good niche market that lego found. I see CUUSOO as a way to combine lego and other hobbies, and not for lego only fans.

Good point. This is also how I see the architecture range. Appealing not just to people that buy Lego, but also people that like architecture or tourists to a location

[Fugazi]

mrklaw, on 28 April 2012 - 08:51 AM, said:

This is something that worries me too. Of course Lego need to check that models are designed and made well, with efficient use of bricks, no illegal methods and using available parts/colours. But minecraft ended up entirely different to the examples posted on Cuusoo.

Isn't that a good thing? Even if I see the final Minecraft product more as a collectible for diehard fans rather than an exciting Lego set, the original ideas were static uninspiring vignettes. I'm certainly glad that the Lego designers came up with an idea that made for a more challenging build and a measure of playing value.

mrklaw, on 28 April 2012 - 08:51 AM, said:

And the western modular town was already stated to be only one building if it passes.

Again, it's a blessing. How many of the voters could afford the full blown diorama which would certainly retail upwards of GBP/$500?

mrklaw, on 28 April 2012 - 08:51 AM, said:

So what are we voting for? Are we voting for awesome MOCs, or just neat ideas? I'd prefer the former but more and more we seem to be getting the latter. Ideas also require less work potentially, which can result in drowning the original MOCs

We're voting for awesome MOCs that will be refined by TLG into foolproof builds with a realistic price point. Except for the rabid fans who vote for a brand label stuck on a lump of bricks!

[Gory51]

Gory51, on 27 April 2012 - 06:38 PM, said:

Agreed completely.


Eve also has a very fanatical fanbase, I should know, I have played the game for over 6 years. It has something about it with its fans who will almost buy anything EVE related.

Sorry to quote myself here, but I am going to link something that shows just how fanatical EVE players can be. It is a bit off topic, but linked to Fanantical fans that we were discussing in Cuusoo so it is slightly related.

The EVE in game ecomony is totally player driven. It is a single shard universe ( ie everybody plays on one single server wherever you are.)
Actions like the one I am linking affect the in game ecomomy for everyone.
A difference with EVE and other games is that if you are flying a ship and its blown up, thats it, that ship is gone with most of the modules you had fitted and the cargo you are carrying. Equipment in the game once destroyed is gone. You character is cloned , but you lose huge chunks of cash. Wars are fought to own territories leading to sometimes hundreds of players in a single battle tiogether. This continual destruction drives the economy as people need to earn money to replace ships, or buy new materials to build new ships. This creates a most interesting type of gameplay and anything is possible.

Take a peek at these fanatics, and process the numbers involved. This will affect them all.  
EVE Drama

[Aanchir]

Is Cuusoo too easily taken over by rabid fandoms? If so, good. That means it's doing its job. The point of LEGO Cuusoo is to identify potential products for which there's a lot of demand, and if you have a fandom that's truly passionate about a potential product then that's a great deal of security for that product's eventual launch. Plus, chances are those people who liked the idea will feel even more enthusiastic about buying the real product if they feel they played a role in its creation.

Is it possible that people will support the idea who wouldn't actually buy the product? Yes, but there's no reason that should be important. If TLG wanted to know the real demand for a product with 100% accuracy, they'd have to survey every potential buyer in the world, not just set a threshold of 10,000 supporters. But what Cuusoo does is creates a sample to demonstrate the popularity of an idea. And by asking supporters to describe how much they'd pay for it, they get a good idea of how much the idea is worth to the average fan, even if not every fan of the idea has stepped up to give their support.

Another thing to keep in mind about Cuusoo is that from what's been seen so far, it's focused on creating niche products. The Shinkai and Hayabusa sets seem like they'd appeal mainly to people interested in very specific fields, just as the Minecraft set would appeal to a very specific fandom. And in fact licensed proposals might stand more of a chance of success than those previous two proposals, because a lot of licensed proposals are based on properties that have already been heavily-marketed to create the sort of demand those products will need.

[David Thomsen]

I think there's a difference between 'finding a new market' and 'pandering to internet culture'. Internet culture is easily manipulated - look at how many YouTube videos have a top ranking comment along the lines of 'vote for this comment if you like this video clip'. There are quite a few Cuusoo projects I would like to vote for just so I can see them get made but have no intention of ever buying, but I don't because I think this would be bad for TLC. I don't think other people are necessarily as conscientious.

I did vote for something just now and saw that they ask you for the price you would pay for the product and how many you would buy, so that's kind of what I wanted anyway. Unfortunately when I try to put '0' as the quantity I would buy, the page won't let me because 'Quantity must be greater than 0'. Maybe if they allowed people to support project but admit that the quantity they will buy as zero, rather than forcing them to give a real quantity if they want to support the project, that might give a better indication of the real demand for the product versus the amount of hype.

Then if my support-with-no-intention-to-buy helps the product gets made, and they improve the product to something I would actually buy, I might just change my mind.

[Trent]

David Thomsen, on 29 April 2012 - 12:38 AM, said:

There are quite a few Cuusoo projects I would like to vote for just so I can see them get made but have no intention of ever buying

Out of interest, what's your thinking behind this?  Is it a case that you think the product should be on the shelves for other people to buy, even though it's not necessarily your own taste or..?

[-zenn]

My own thought about Cuusoo is that when you post a moc, you need a lot of outside help other than the lego community itself to get enough votes. So it's more of a 'if I got enough friends for votes' than actual 'thats so good it should be made'. I'm not impressed by the whole cuusoo-hype thing, I've got more respect for renowned builders inside the community.

[Legoist]

David Thomsen, on 27 April 2012 - 02:05 PM, said:

I think there are two possible solutions to the problem. One, raise the voting requirement for sets if they are derived from pre-existing fictional worlds. Two, ask people who vote for the product to rank on a scale of one to five how likely they are to actually buy it.

It's quite a stretch, but they could have made every Cusoo work similar to this: http://en.wikipedia....ki/Kickstarter.

Which means that every vote is essentially a preorder, if the minimum number of preorders is met then the product is made, otherwise no one gets charged.

[Andy D]

Legoist, on 29 April 2012 - 04:09 PM, said:

It's quite a stretch, but they could have made every Cusoo work similar to this: http://en.wikipedia....ki/Kickstarter.

Which means that every vote is essentially a preorder, if the minimum number of preorders is met then the product is made, otherwise no one gets charged.

In a way, this is a great idea.  It would encourage people to think with their wallet before voting.  But in another way it might discourage some people from participating.

It is my understanding that just because a project reaches 10,000 votes that it is not guaranteed that LEGO will produce it.

I can see that just having Cuusoo is a way to promote innovation.

Andy D

[Legocrazy81]

Legoist, on 29 April 2012 - 04:09 PM, said:

It's quite a stretch, but they could have made every Cusoo work similar to this: http://en.wikipedia....ki/Kickstarter.

Which means that every vote is essentially a preorder, if the minimum number of preorders is met then the product is made, otherwise no one gets charged.

I don't know about that. Because a pre order means you pay for it when it first comes out. If that were the case, I certainly wouldn't be voting. Just because I vote for something and say yes to buying doesn't mean I'll buy it the second it comes out. If the pre order were more of a reserve of a set, that'd be ok by me.  But, I may be over thinking your suggestion...

[Ash]

Trent, on 29 April 2012 - 03:41 PM, said:

Out of interest, what's your thinking behind this?  Is it a case that you think the product should be on the shelves for other people to buy, even though it's not necessarily your own taste or..?

I think the same way and my thinking behind it is: Almost all the links and calls to action for Cuusoo I've seen on these forums are "click here and support this on Cussoo" not "Click here if you think you would buy this if it ever got made". So it's what I do. I click to support projects I like and find pleasing. Most of them are things I couldn't afford, or don't have space for or whatever and have no intention of buying. I'm just clicking to support them.The Cuusoo site itself gives me the same impression. It's just support. In theory if one I really liked got made I might buy it, but the critirea by which I would decide to purchase is different to that which I vote baded on.

Edited by Ash, 29 April 2012 - 08:16 PM.

[Aanchir]

-zenn, on 29 April 2012 - 04:08 PM, said:

My own thought about Cuusoo is that when you post a moc, you need a lot of outside help other than the lego community itself to get enough votes. So it's more of a 'if I got enough friends for votes' than actual 'thats so good it should be made'. I'm not impressed by the whole cuusoo-hype thing, I've got more respect for renowned builders inside the community.

I don't think anyone has a network of friends big enough to ensure them success on Cuusoo. IMO, one thing the high threshold for consideration does is make sure people CAN'T just rely on their friends for this kind of thing.

Plus, having to rely on people outside the traditional AFOL community is a good thing as far as I'm concerned. One of the things Cuusoo accomplishes is drawing attention to the LEGO community from outside. People who might not have been too interested in TLG's current offerings might feel a lot more interested in a product for which they felt a sense of personal involvement. Especially if it is based on a genre or specific license that they feel passionately about, such as licensed proposals like the BttF DeLorean or genre-specific proposals like the Space Marines.

[TomRoid]

So they don't buy the actual set, so what? You don't have to buy it. It could be a good cause. It's not like every vote is going to be a reasonal, legitimate, cared about one.

[Trent]

Ash, on 29 April 2012 - 08:15 PM, said:

I think the same way and my thinking behind it is: Almost all the links and calls to action for Cuusoo I've seen on these forums are "click here and support this on Cussoo" not "Click here if you think you would buy this if it ever got made". So it's what I do. I click to support projects I like and find pleasing. Most of them are things I couldn't afford, or don't have space for or whatever and have no intention of buying. I'm just clicking to support them.The Cuusoo site itself gives me the same impression. It's just support. In theory if one I really liked got made I might buy it, but the critirea by which I would decide to purchase is different to that which I vote baded on.

Thanks for elaborating.  :)

[Sam892]

It's a very though issue. There are a lot of good models on Cusso that are not licenced and do struggle for votes. I think the answer here is the votecap Lego should lower votes for non liecenced models. Maybe around the 7000 mark. However when you look at the most popular Lego line its gonna be something like star wars and superheroes. I don't like the mine raft set it looks terrible and I highly doubt many people will buy it, but if the back to the future set is made then I'm going to the shop on the day it comes out and getting a couple.