Heroica RPG General Discussion

[Scorpiox]

Sorry about that. Get well soon.

When Flipz is ill... Heroica grinds slowly to a halt.

[Flare]

Benji Carvenhall

Level 70 Bestial Humanoid

Health: 840/840

SP: 9

Special I: BEAST TRANSFORM MODE! - Benji transforms into a raging raptor, doubling his health but reducing his SP to zero. He then inflicts 70 damage equally divided among the party.

Special II: CUTE TRANSFORM MODE! - Benji transforms into an adorable but devious iguana, halving his health and level but gaining a 1/3 chance to avoid receiving damage.

Special III: GURLIE TRANSFORM, LIKE, MODE! - Benji transforms into Jamina, a strange but beautiful female alter-ego of Benji, doubling his her SP and now dealing the enamored effect.

Passive Special I: RETURN OF THE BENJI - Every round divisible by four, Benji transforms back to his normal human form, returning his level to 70, his max health to 840, his SP to 9, and any other changes are returned to normal.

Passive Special II: VIOLETTA WHAT!? - If the name Violetta is ever mentioned during battle, Benji goes into a frenzy, becoming encouraged and hastened.

Passive Special III: YOU DARE IGNORE ME?! - During free hits Benji causes double damage and deals the afraid effect if the target was in the front row, or the enraged effect if the target was in the back row.

Drops: Uber Bow (WP:10+half of the hero's level, not upgradable), Medal of Epicness (accessory, mark of true talent that allows the wearer to gain quintuple experience from battles were they deal the finishing blow to all enemies), ...other stuffs...

Note: Immune to Asleep, Blinded, Confused, Fragile, and Weakened Effects.

[Scorpiox]

Medal of Epicness (accessory, mark of true talent that allows the wearer to gain quintuple experience from battles were they deal the finishing blow to all enemies)

Hmm... I wonder whom Benji stole that medal from...

[Pyrovisionary]

Hmm... I wonder whom Benji stole that medal from...

As we all know; Sarge. He was given one of those when he single-handedly won the battle for captain-grey-skull-dead-roger's island grotto fortress

[Duvors]

As we all know; Sarge. He was given one of those when he single-handedly won the battle for captain-grey-skull-dead-roger's island grotto fortress

[Kintobor]

Wait, wasn't the greatest pickpocket Kar-- nevermind.

Ten points to Gryffindor.

[Endgame]

Since I'm currently now knee-deep in planning the rest of my arc, a question:

For my finale, how would you folks like Perma-KO to be executed, if at all?

[Kintobor]

Since I'm currently now knee-deep in planning the rest of my arc, a question:

For my finale, how would you folks like Perma-KO to be executed, if at all?

Only if the PC is willing to go through with it. I know Zepher asked during the Wren finale, and those that said yes didn't die, so it's up to the player. NPCs though, totally up to you.

[Endgame]

Oh, of course - Permadeath and Perma-ko are two very different things.

My finale is quite frankly going to be a gauntlet and among the hardest challegnes Heroicans will face, so I'm debating on how I should handle Perma-Ko: 3 strikes and you're out, or not having it at all? I'm interested in seeing other people's opinions on the entire concept in general.

[Kintobor]

Oh, of course - Permadeath and Perma-ko are two very different things.

My finale is quite frankly going to be a gauntlet and among the hardest challegnes Heroicans will face, so I'm debating on how I should handle Perma-Ko: 3 strikes and you're out, or not having it at all? I'm interested in seeing other people's opinions on the entire concept in general.

In that case, if you do go through with it, call me out.

I don't think from a narrative standpoint it works. You as a QM want the PCs to succeed, and it frankly doesn't help the PCs succeed. Or at least, I want them to succeed. Your Endgame, your job is to make PC's blood boil and cause massive inventory management and loss of items.

[Endgame]

To be honest, I am afraid if I go through with it, I'll have to deal with juggling inventories like poor Zepher had to on 53. May the gods have mercy on my soul.

Oh, trust me, I want them to succeed, up until the boss. Then the kid gloves come off. (Though my finale actually does begin with a boss fight. )

On one hand:

-Forces strategy and gives absolute meaning to every encounter.

-It's stressful, something I don't think a gaming experience should be. Challenging? of course! Frustrating? Tolerable. But I don't play games to get stressed, unless I'm doing a masochist run or somehing. I bleieve the game should be enjoyable, no matter the circumstances.

Edited October 14, 2013 by Endgame

[Kintobor]

Well, if you didn't do that you wouldn't be Endgame, now would you?

I was curious what people thought of an anthology series of quests, one where the link isn't the characters or locales, but a theme. Like "Kintobor's Halloween Haunt", or "Kintobor's Season's Greetings". Thoughts?

[Endgame]

Seasonal quests haven't been pulled off before - go for it! It'd be interesting to see, for sure, although the "Kintobor" part seems a bit unneeded. (I am incredibly tempted to make a quest called "Endgame." )

[Zepher]

I was happy I did it for 53, in all honesty. I know there were mixed feelings about it, but it gave the quest the weight it needed, in my opinion. It is something to discuss with your players, though - 53 was unique in that I knew before-hand, for quite a while, a number of the people who'd be coming and was able to discuss with them.

[Flipz]

It really depends on your party--if everyone in the party is going to be of similar disposition, then Perma-KO will be more fair, but less interesting. Part of the tension in 53's KO-fest was that several party members legitimately disliked each other, AND that we had a bunch of NPCs to baby-sit.

That's still one of the more frustrating aspects of 53, incidentally. The NPCs were severely over-delicate, meaning we had to go crazy trying to keep them alive--and then, in spite of all that, some of the ones we were indifferent to (at the time) got kept alive by Plot Armor, and then got killed at the end even though we used a Phoenix Essence on them. (Coming up on a year later and it still smarts that we could have saved Hans with almost no change to the plot.)

My advice? If you don't want to stress out the party, be transparent in everything you do. We had no clue exactly how important each Spire was (example: if I'd known that Wren would have been Lucky even after we defended the Spire at Guffington Manor, I would have joined Atramor at the Observatory and lobbied for others to do the same), we didn't know which NPCs would die if KO'd, we didn't know which NPCs were doomed from the start, we didn't know how many more battles there were to come...basically, we were running in the dark for four months, and it amped up the tension like you wouldn't believe. That's also part of why Dastan worked so well--for the most part, we heeded the QMs' wishes that we didn't look at the other Quests, so we flew blind there as well, and it kept the level of peril high. In Dastan, however, there was a concrete objective, and we were given a general idea of what we had to do to achieve it, so the balance was fairly even in that respect. (To be clear, the lack of transparency ADDED a lot to 53, to be sure--but it also added stress. Your call whether the benefits are worth the costs. )

If your party IS of different dispositions, I'd recommend making multiple paths through the events of your finale. Zeph was really generous in letting me improv with Arthur (and I maintain that the best parts of 53 WERE when he let some characters go "off the rails" and have a spontaneous, unplanned effect on his characters and the world), but I'd want to have at least a little wiggle room (preferably via side-Quests) prepared for characters who would otherwise find themselves getting overruled all the time.

Also: for the gods' sake, DON'T FORGET TO ROLEPLAY THE **** OUT OF YOUR NPCS. SO many QMs forget this, especially during the more "epic" portions of their stories and their mechanic-ridden fights. I'm not sure what causes it--perhaps it's a perception that certain NPCs have become the "voice" of the QM, and a subconscious desire not to influence the players' choices? In any case, it's a BIG thing; what makes Zepher's NPCs (and Sandy's as well, when he's consciously doing it) so engaging is that they have opinions and beliefs--rather than being the QM's mouthpiece for plot exposition and guidance, they have personalities, and almost end up as players of their own right. That's fantastic, and it need to happen more often. One thing that was missing in 53 was those characters' voices, offering opinions on strategy and tactics based not from "I'm a QM-played character, so I have advanced foreknowledge of what's to come, so I'm going to screw over/forewarn the player characters based on that," but from "I don't know any more than you, but this is what I think based on my goals and motivations." (And yes, I realize how difficult that is to separate, especially when we were so hungry for even a SHRED of information on what was ahead--that's the deliberate lack of transparency coming into play.) It's one thing I noticed in 48--Punii and Hal sort of faded into the background at times, especially towards the middle portion of the Quest. The way you have allied NPCs chatting mid-battle next to their stats helps a LOT, Endgame (just make sure to update it EVERY round!), but I still would also have liked your NPCs to chime in more often in general. Again, that separation would help a lot--imagine your party NPCs want to reach the next Level just as much as you want your own character to, and you'll be a third of the way there.

Edited October 14, 2013 by Flipz

[Zepher]

(To be clear, the lack of transparency ADDED a lot to 53, to be sure--but it also added stress. Your call whether the benefits are worth the costs. )

Stress creates some of the best performances. Worth the costs.

This conversation is veering into role-playing NPC territory. Maybe better in the theater, but Flipz has a pretty serious nugget of wisdom in there - your NPCs should absolutely have a life of their own. Its hard to keep track of ( trust me ) but well worth it. They don't have to have perfect memory or perfect ideals or a perfect past (which PC does?) but the important thing is ALWAYS have them follow their motivation, even if it means betraying the party, even if it means betraying the enemy, even if it means hopping on a boat and sailing away in the middle of the battle. It's the thing that separates drama from melodrama (literally, this is the rule): melodrama is PLOT driven, and conforms the characters so the plot will advance while drama is CHARACTER driven and they form the plot.

Final note: Flipz, I know you think that everyone should have characters that talk all the time and also sub-quests ready for everyone. But that's difficult too. I know you say your quest will have it... but we have yet to see it. Come talk to us about letting the PCs do whatever they want and the NPCs talking to everyone every time they speak AFTER you get home from an 8 hour shift and see that one of your characters has heroically gone underground which you didn't think was an option but you've got to build them a set anyway.

[CMP]

Roleplaying NPCs is one my favorite parts of hosting. But don't feel like you have to have them yammer on every round of combat.

[Endgame]

Thanks for the insight, everyone!

Oh, trust me - Prometheus Regret is going to be present for my finale. he'll be trying to throw you offg the rails I've set you for sure.

In terms of babysitting NPCs: Can't see it happen on the finale, really. The weakest one is probably going to be a Level 25-30 Alchemist, and you will have Masson Cour along for the ride, now boasting a far more powerful weapon and the same level.

I would be incredibly interested with what happens when you place Arthur, Karie, Boomingham, Masson, and The Regret in the same room, however.

[Pyrovisionary]

I would be incredibly interested with what happens when you place Arthur, Karie, Boomingham, Masson, and The Regret in the same room, however.

The ceiling collapsing and everyone dying due to charges that someone (I wonder who?) drunkenly placed during #81 thus ending the reign wall of terror text permanently but starving Eubric of roleplaying?

Edited October 14, 2013 by Pyrovisionary

[Waterbrick Down]

In that case, if you do go through with it, call me out.

I don't think from a narrative standpoint it works. You as a QM want the PCs to succeed, and it frankly doesn't help the PCs succeed. Or at least, I want them to succeed. Your Endgame, your job is to make PC's blood boil and cause massive inventory management and loss of items.

Just as a matter of opinion, a QM should never want their PC's to succeed or fail. To allow those feelings is to allow yourself to subconsciously allow a potential twist in a plot to fit your preconceived idea of success. If a narrative is going to proceed no matter what the PC's do or do not do, then in the end the choices they make really don't have a lasting influence. Most people come to role-playing because they want a sense of agency or meaning instilled in their actions. To know that the QM is on your side means that something beyond your choices is effecting the outcome of your choices. Now of course is impossible to completely remove yourself as a QM from what's going on and be completely neutral, but it should be striven after.

Like Flipz said however, transparency is the key. If a QM decides that they'll be rooting for the PC's and will be willing to either fudge something or change an outcome or pull a Deus ex Machina to progress a certain plot line, then they should be up front about it, just as much as they should be up front about perma-KO's and perma-deaths.

[herrJJ]

I, and especially Nessa, will be inactive for some time. I have certain plans for her advanced class but that needs time. Until then just think she is going reeaalllyyy sloooooowly back to the hall...

But don't expect too much though

[The Legonater]

Commenting on the stress of 53, frankly I think it added to the quest. This was the end of the world. This was an intense, bloody war. Stress merely added to the reality and gravity of the situation.

Out of curiosity - and as Zeph said this may be better in the theater - does anyone have any advice as to how to improve NPC roleplaying? I gave it a shot in 64, but I don't feel I was very good at it.

[Scorpiox]

I didn't mind the stress too much either, as it helped to add to the aura of peril that I think Zepher was aiming for. I was, perhaps, a tad irritated that Felton needn't have been revived (as he wouldn't have appeared in later quests either way). Having Hans being killed for want of a Phoenix Essence that we had is a shame, really.

[Kintobor]

Commenting on the stress of 53, frankly I think it added to the quest. This was the end of the world. This was an intense, bloody war. Stress merely added to the reality and gravity of the situation.

Out of curiosity - and as Zeph said this may be better in the theater - does anyone have any advice as to how to improve NPC roleplaying? I gave it a shot in 64, but I don't feel I was very good at it.

Give all NPC's a quirk. Either their cowardly, or they've always got a drink in their hands, or they're ladies man. Stick to the trait, and allow the PC's to help flesh them out. Add two even, perhaps you have a man with a noticeably large, prized beard, and he also happens to be a sailor. Work on the traits from there. He's a sailor, so he's perhaps a rough guy to be around, but he's dependable and always looking for a pay check.

At least, that's what I do.

Edited October 14, 2013 by Kintobor

[UsernameMDM]

Give all NPC's a quirk. Either their cowardly, or they've always got a drink in their hands, or they're ladies man. Stick to the trait, and allow the PC's to help flesh them out. Add two even, perhaps you have a man with a noticeably large, prized beard, and he also happens to be a sailor. Work on the traits from there. He's a sailor, so he's perhaps a rough guy to be around, but he's dependable and always looking for a pay check.

At least, that's what I do.

Quirks are highly overrated are a cover for bad writing.

Edited October 14, 2013 by UsernameMDM