42176 Porsche GT4 e-Performance

[kingiswide]

It seems that the drive motor is not that powerful...280 motor x2...with 3.6V voltage(much lower than buwizz 11.1V).

And it also seems like the application is very limited...RWD vehicle only?

All in all, what a Renaissance of integrated "Powertrain+Steering" Racer Hub!

 

[Jockos]

8 minutes ago, allanp said:

They might as well make it in the shape of a car and be done with it. They can re-release it every wave with a different sticker sheet. But just to state the obvious, this isn't aimed at us. They probably said "the fans will hate it but the masses will eat it up". Hope we didn't disappoint!

Actually, I've got a similar idea. They will make a chassis with it, and just the shells changes. They can even sell them separately...

[kbalage]

1 hour ago, Jurss said:

Most probably, few years we will receive some "sports" car with this hub, with very similar drivetrain, just different body.

Or if we think about it, this can be a way to greatly reduce the stock of PU hardware in preparation for a new system. With this integrated drive base, separate hubs, motors and lights are no longer needed, there is only one unit to produce and sell.

Last year we were supposed to get a single RC set (Audi), the Liebherr was pushed from 2022. This year, at least according to the rumors, 42176 will be the only RC set. If they use this base for e.g. two sets in the following two years (one car, one tracked vehicle), they can remove all other PU components from the inventory. The availability of these parts is already very random, some are shown as retired in certain regions, others just disappear from time to time.

[mpj]

Imagine one excavator with one of these hubs in the undercarriage and one in the turret. Much more compact than the current setup and with 2 rechargeable batteries. Not bad at all.

[Igor1]

Still, this assembly should be more compact than separate 3 motors + hub

[Timorzelorzworz]

2 hours ago, mpj said:

Imagine one excavator with one of these hubs in the undercarriage and one in the turret. Much more compact than the current setup and with 2 rechargeable batteries. Not bad at all.

I thought the same and as a nice addition that excavator can finally use lights. Things getting interesting using this new hardware for setups with gearboxes since the two rear motors are in parallel, like 42114 Volvo just with one hardware piece and lights. The new hub is not a replacement as many people say, its a cool addition for models restricted to three motors and compact setups

Edited April 24 by Timorzelorzworz

[Ngoc Nguyen]

So the electronics system is going through another major change?

[Timorzelorzworz]

I like this new hub and the genius idea behind this to finally introduce programmable lights. Possibilities are endless, imagine a car that automatically turns on indicators controlled by the App.

Everyone who has already made instructions for electronic models knows who annoying it is to lead and giude the wires on tiny space. This new hub solves this for smaller builds. The instructions can then focus on wire the lights instead for the motors

[Jockos]

I find it interesting if C+ will be getting another update/portfolio change just after 5 years of being released. At PF it was 11+ if we don't count 2019.

[allanp]

3 hours ago, kbalage said:

Or if we think about it, this can be a way to greatly reduce the stock of PU hardware in preparation for a new system. With this integrated drive base, separate hubs, motors and lights are no longer needed, there is only one unit to produce and sell.

Last year we were supposed to get a single RC set (Audi), the Liebherr was pushed from 2022. This year, at least according to the rumors, 42176 will be the only RC set. If they use this base for e.g. two sets in the following two years (one car, one tracked vehicle), they can remove all other PU components from the inventory. The availability of these parts is already very random, some are shown as retired in certain regions, others just disappear from time to time.

I was actually thinking this exact thing, but wondered if I was reading too much into it.

While app only control and RC/PU might well be popular to the customers that small RC cars like this will appeal to, it hasn't been that popular with us lot. Yes yes I know, we're a small minority and all that, but I don't think it's egotistical to say that we know Technic, we know what it can be and what it should be better than the masses, and without knowing the limitations the designers have to work with, we're free to dream a little bigger about what Technic can be. I think that makes us worth listening to. And even just as fans of Technic themselves, I'm sure the designers still want to give us "the good stuff".

So it actually makes sense to contain all the PU/app based stuff in this one piece, pleasing the marketing department with this solution that makes no compromises in terms of being smart device controlled and having instant gratification and all that. They keep all that alive with this new hub, while not having to maintain a whole suit of PU technic elements, freeing them to work on a new system that is more suited to Technics "build for real" mantra. Maybe with physical remotes, more separation, less reliance on smart devices and coding (don't mind if it's compatible with that, but never liked the total reliance on it), they can offer us, as well as children, something real like Lego is meant to be. Real toys with real controls and paper instructions so there's no total reliance on owning or using a smart device to play with Lego, which should always be the best real toy there is.

[kbalage]

8 minutes ago, Jockos said:

I find it interesting if C+ will be getting another update/portfolio change just after 5 years of being released. At PF it was 11+ if we don't count 2019.

I think the new hub is still part of the Powered Up ecosystem, these should be the known components squeezed in a single package, using the Control+ app.

Fun fact - the connector used in all Powered Up / Control+ sets first appeared in WeDo 2.0 in 2016, and that hub had a rechargeable battery running at 3.7V. What if LEGO made a full circle to end the system?  

The first "real" Powered Up sets were the trains introduced in 2018, apart from the Batmobile. City trains are released in 4 year cycles, I would expect a brand new electronic system being released in 2026 with a new set of trains.

[allanp]

3 minutes ago, kbalage said:

I think the new hub is still part of the Powered Up ecosystem, these should be the known components squeezed in a single package, using the Control+ app.

Fun fact - the connector used in all Powered Up / Control+ sets first appeared in WeDo 2.0 in 2016, and that hub had a rechargeable battery running at 3.7V. What if LEGO made a full circle to end the system?  

The first "real" Powered Up sets were the trains introduced in 2018, apart from the Batmobile. City trains are released in 4 year cycles, I would expect a brand new electronic system being released in 2026 with a new set of trains.

Maybe they bumped it forward a year to 2025 for Technic? 

[Timorzelorzworz]

No, PU-system has reached half of its lifetime now. It is expensive to develope the interfaces and to keep the App alive and PU and C+ aren't systems they can be replaced easily without any benefit. 

The new hub is just an addition to the ecosystem, the regular 4-port hub is still alive. Not every solution is possible with this new hardware, it can't be act as counterweight at the very end (friend 42146 for example) nor used for models that requires 4 motors (42129, 42131).

It is a decision by design. Does the model wants cool lights and only 3 motors on tiny space? Then use this new hub, otherwise the regular one

[Divitis]

I think this HUB fits perfectly with Lego's 'user retention' strategy. Hear me out.

Ideally, they want to 'onboard' a kid to Lego at the age of 2 and keep them loyal until they become AFOL. And so they do research to understand: when and why do people drop out and enter a 'dark age'?

Based on myself and friends and family this happens between the age of 15 to 19, when teens don't have neither the attention span nor the pieces to design the MOCs they envision but just playing with a set isn't satisfying anymore either.

Hence, we're seeing Friends sets for teenagers (to lure them back in with the nostalgia factor), Technic sets designed for minifigs (to ease the transition from system), and finally this Hub. Which will give our teens a solid base to build vehicles that 'just work' and be creative at a level that is interesting to them.

I know at 16 I wouldn't have wanted to wrap my head around designing a robust chassis and routing cables, let alone 'coding' the motors in the Lego app - which this hub also eliminates, with one off-the-shelf profile you can control it all!

As a platform where kids can quickly plug components together in a way that always brings interesting results,  I reckon it will provide them lots of fun. I guess we'll know for sure in 15y or so when they join the forum :)

[Krxlion]

33 minutes ago, Divitis said:

I think this HUB fits perfectly with Lego's 'user retention' strategy. Hear me out.

Ideally, they want to 'onboard' a kid to Lego at the age of 2 and keep them loyal until they become AFOL. And so they do research to understand: when and why do people drop out and enter a 'dark age'?

Based on myself and friends and family this happens between the age of 15 to 19, when teens don't have neither the attention span nor the pieces to design the MOCs they envision but just playing with a set isn't satisfying anymore either.

Hence, we're seeing Friends sets for teenagers (to lure them back in with the nostalgia factor), Technic sets designed for minifigs (to ease the transition from system), and finally this Hub. Which will give our teens a solid base to build vehicles that 'just work' and be creative at a level that is interesting to them.

I know at 16 I wouldn't have wanted to wrap my head around designing a robust chassis and routing cables, let alone 'coding' the motors in the Lego app - which this hub also eliminates, with one off-the-shelf profile you can control it all!

As a platform where kids can quickly plug components together in a way that always brings interesting results,  I reckon it will provide them lots of fun. I guess we'll know for sure in 15y or so when they join the forum :)

At first, I was very angry at TLG, for what have they done to us. But reading your post reminded me how badly I wanted to have 8183 Track Turbo RC set. At around 14-16 years, I wanted to create a custom body for it and design a track I could drive around. I didn't get the set, but the ideas I had of what I could possibly do, is something kids nowadays may feel as well. All in all, I don't believe the set I mentioned belong to TECHNIC section, but the new one might just aim for something like 8183, but with Technic body, and it could be an evolution (but not certainly a revolution). On a final note, this hub is not my cup of tea, or anyones else here I believe. Hope they not abandon old folks like us that love Lego for being able to build something we could see live (like gearboxes, different suspension designs, etc.).

Video example of the set I was talking about:

 

[R0Sch]

2 hours ago, kbalage said:

I think the new hub is still part of the Powered Up ecosystem, these should be the known components squeezed in a single package, using the Control+ app.

Fun fact - the connector used in all Powered Up / Control+ sets first appeared in WeDo 2.0 in 2016, and that hub had a rechargeable battery running at 3.7V. What if LEGO made a full circle to end the system?  

The first "real" Powered Up sets were the trains introduced in 2018, apart from the Batmobile. City trains are released in 4 year cycles, I would expect a brand new electronic system being released in 2026 with a new set of trains.

For WeDo 2.0 it made no difference to use 3.7V for educational purpose, those medium motors could simply run slower. They were designed to run safely at 9V as well. But in an RC race car that's supposed to be fast an powerful it makes no sense other than there was no space left to add 2 battery cells. There are also people who saw the Porsche at the Nürnberg Toy Fair in person and claim that the car will not break any speed records.

P.S. the WeDo 2.0 hub could also run with only 2 AA batteries so even less than 3V. The rechargeable battery was an expensive extra.

Edited April 24 by R0Sch

[2GodBDGlory]

2 hours ago, Divitis said:

I think this HUB fits perfectly with Lego's 'user retention' strategy. Hear me out.

Ideally, they want to 'onboard' a kid to Lego at the age of 2 and keep them loyal until they become AFOL. And so they do research to understand: when and why do people drop out and enter a 'dark age'?

Based on myself and friends and family this happens between the age of 15 to 19, when teens don't have neither the attention span nor the pieces to design the MOCs they envision but just playing with a set isn't satisfying anymore either.

Hence, we're seeing Friends sets for teenagers (to lure them back in with the nostalgia factor), Technic sets designed for minifigs (to ease the transition from system), and finally this Hub. Which will give our teens a solid base to build vehicles that 'just work' and be creative at a level that is interesting to them.

I know at 16 I wouldn't have wanted to wrap my head around designing a robust chassis and routing cables, let alone 'coding' the motors in the Lego app - which this hub also eliminates, with one off-the-shelf profile you can control it all!

As a platform where kids can quickly plug components together in a way that always brings interesting results,  I reckon it will provide them lots of fun. I guess we'll know for sure in 15y or so when they join the forum :)

I might be an outlier here, but I started designing my own Technic MOCs at 13, ramped up in complexity very quickly, so at least some teenagers like to build Technic like adults!

That's probably not typical, though, so the point still stands

[N1K0L4]

2 hours ago, 2GodBDGlory said:

I might be an outlier here, but I started designing my own Technic MOCs at 13, ramped up in complexity very quickly, so at least some teenagers like to build Technic like adults!

That's probably not typical, though, so the point still stands

I started mine at 13 also, so you're not alone :)

Edited April 24 by N1K0L4

[Stereo]

I don't know what to expect of "kids these days," I got the Robotics Invention System when I was 12 and didn't have trouble building with it, though old style wires are easier to manage in my opinion (too bad the insulation died over the last 20 years).  I did and probably still do have trouble looking at a pile of parts and thinking of something to make from them though. It happens, but most of the time I want to build something according to instructions, or go freeform, any parts that exist go into the model. (easier to build those IRL now that I have a 100k pieces) My 'dark ages' were more because of competing interests, then I went to university for a long time, and lived pretty minimally the entire time, I had software toys.

 

Centralized power with geartrains out to where it's needed is preferable to me over running wires anyway.  3 motors with rotary encoders is really enough for any slow speed machines.  With more than 3 outputs you just use one as a selector on one or both of the others.  So then it's a question of whether the software supports that kind of thing, makes it easy to share configurations, and so on.

Edited April 24 by Stereo

[R0Sch]

I'm assuming this hub will use these motors from HoiPo, the front steering motor being geared down with planetary gears and the drive ones running much faster.


Now, if you'd really want to break speed records, replace them with one of these babies:

[Lyichir]

All this talk about bulky electronic hubs... anyone remember this set from the '90s? https://brickset.com/sets/5600-1/Radio-Control-Racer

I think all the examples shared from throughout the years are proof enough that there is room for both more versatile individual electronic components and for a more specialized hub like this in the Powered Up/Control+ system. A set like this is hardly the end of the world.

[derekthetree]

2 hours ago, R0Sch said:

I'm assuming this hub will use these motors from HoiPo, the front steering motor being geared down with planetary gears and the drive ones running much faster.


Now, if you'd really want to break speed records, replace them with one of these babies:
 

How have HP not sued that company for logo infringement?

[msk6003]

5 hours ago, R0Sch said:

Now, if you'd really want to break speed records, replace them with one of these babies:

Tamiya mini4wd's motor is smaller than that. It is same size with motor which used on PF M, wedo M, spike medium.
But still not possible to replace because all of lego motor accept 7~9V but those accept 3V. and need to much more ampere. If you replace motor and connect, battery or receiver's motor driver chip will burn away. I burnt my 8184 module's chip for that reason. (I used atomic-tuned on that list)

 

But If you still want to replace motor for fast speed and more torque, mini-z motor and component will work. They have brushless motor too! Remember, you need to replace both motor and controller.

Edited April 26 by msk6003

[kbalage]

9 hours ago, Lyichir said:

All this talk about bulky electronic hubs... anyone remember this set from the '90s? https://brickset.com/sets/5600-1/Radio-Control-Racer

I think all the examples shared from throughout the years are proof enough that there is room for both more versatile individual electronic components and for a more specialized hub like this in the Powered Up/Control+ system. A set like this is hardly the end of the world.

If we had proof that TLG was truly building a versatile system and not just making specialized components for the needs of specific sets, then I don't think any of us would be worried. Unfortunately, Powered Up's history to date has not been encouraging, and considering the sporadic availability of motors and hubs, the future doesn't look bright.

I just noticed today that in addition to the XL Motor and the Simple Medium Linear Motor, the Technic hub is also marked as retired. Is this the usual game they play, or is it really gone? Because if it really has been retired, then this move supports more our theories about downsizing Powered Up to phase out the system rather than a promising expansion with specialized parts.

[Jockos]

30 minutes ago, kbalage said:

If we had proof that TLG was truly building a versatile system and not just making specialized components for the needs of specific sets, then I don't think any of us would be worried. Unfortunately, Powered Up's history to date has not been encouraging, and considering the sporadic availability of motors and hubs, the future doesn't look bright.

I just noticed today that in addition to the XL Motor and the Simple Medium Linear Motor, the Technic hub is also marked as retired. Is this the usual game they play, or is it really gone? Because if it really has been retired, then this move supports more our theories about downsizing Powered Up to phase out the system rather than a promising expansion with specialized parts.

You got me thinking. Though I don't know the reliability of the 'retired' tags, seeing the summer line-up of upcoming sets only the Porsche is motorized (maybe the Lunar Rover too, but not confirmed), so it's an indicator they are really downsizing the whole system. I wouldn't be too surprised to have a brand new system next year, with a last C+ set of its kind like it was in 2019 with 42095.