LEGO #21344 - Orient Express

[idlemarvel]

13 hours ago, ToledoRails said:

 

Glenn Holland and I have prepared a joint statement regarding our thoughts on this set, the design changes, and trying to bring a rational viewpoint to quite frankly... the nastiest reception I've ever seen for a Lego Train set. 
 

100% agree with this video. Some of the previous comments on this model have been let's say unduly negative and disappointing. Personally I'm looking forward to the release.

Edited October 14, 2023 by idlemarvel

[KvadratGnezdo]

On 10/12/2023 at 1:15 PM, Ferro-Friki said:

I was wondering if they would reference the Agatha Christie novel.

I was not expecting them to switch things up and have the engine be the victim instead!

I guess you could call this set Murder OF the Orient Express…

Good one

 

[Selander]

I think it is definitely Dark blue. Depending on light conditions that nuance look very different. As an example have a look at two pictures of my Swedish Da locomotive in Dark Blue. The second picture looks nuancewise very similar to the leaked catalogue pictures of OE.

 

 

[*thomas*]

Sorry if this has already been said, but I guess this is part of the reason why LEGO choose a different approach for the locomotive

Was Mouldking faster with designing it? 

Edited October 14, 2023 by *thomas*

[Shiva]

6 hours ago, Carefree_Dude said:

I have a bunch of XXL drivers from a scrapped attempt at an overzealous Union Pacific Big Boy Moc; 

 

May decide to finally start taking parts from it; i gave up on it like 5 years ago. 


(Man i had so many great ideas for the thing. 4x XL motors, fully wheel suspension, driven by driver wheels.... Once I finally got it all together though, the suspension didn't work as intended and I many redesign attempts failed, and I got burnt out on the project)

Big Boy with XXL #13 Drivers?! 1:40 scale?! #13/XXL would give 1728mm, in 1:40. IRL size 1727mm / 68inches.

Your locomotive you posted, that, could very well fit the Orient Express.

 

@*thomas*, do they have real photos of it? That one seems computer generated.

[lego3057]

Orient Express from BrickLink Studio

 

 

Edited October 20, 2023 by lego3057

[*thomas*]

1 hour ago, Shiva said:

 

@*thomas*, do they have real photos of it? That one seems computer generated.

Youtube review: 

 

[Hod Carrier]

@zephyr1934 @Selander I shall be thrilled to be wrong because quite clearly the train should be dark blue, and if it isn't then LEGO should go and stand in a corner and have a good long think about their choices. However, I remain unconvinced, partly from looking at the colour as shown in the photos but also from looking at how it contrasts with the other colours. It just doesn't seem dark enough to me and I will wait to see for myself what shade it turns out to be.

Experience has taught me to be cautious about the published CMYK values for LEGO colours. I had to print a sticker to go on the dark blue section of the tail flash of my SEPECAT Jaguar and used these values as my starting point. However, when I printed the sticker it came out waaaay too light. Even after progressively reducing the lightness I ended up with a colour that still does not match and is too pale.

[lego3057]

I wouldn´t be surprised about a new blue like Maersk Blue

[THERIZE]

Looking back to some of the posts around the 4th of October, other people talked about expecting an official reveal around that date. So I would like to ask, is there a usual amount of days before release when new sets are revealed? There was a rumor about the set being delayed until at least 2024, but with the set being in the latest catalog that wouldn't make a lot of sense. I'm curious if it's only the reveal being pushed back, and the catalog perhaps being released too early. 

[Ferro-Friki]

If anyone still cares about the whole engine debacle, I would like to add my two cents if you don’t mind.

For those of you arguing that those who are unsatisfied with TLG’s OE engine should either modify it or build a MOC altogether:

This is a 300€ set we’re talking about, and I don’t now about you, but that’s a hefty price tag in my opinion. Buying a 300€ set and then having to modify it to achieve the intended result is beyond my comprehension. Besides, if we’re going to have to buy separate bricks, we’re better off building a MOC, which brings me to the next point:

I think the argument that those of us unsatisfied with the engine should build our own version entirely from scratch is very much right. Here’s the thing though, I don’t want to.

Building a MOC, in my experience, is a very extensive process which involves research, measurements, sketches and a lot of trial and error. Of course, someone more experienced than me might be able to create MOCs with a lot more ease, however, you can’t deny that building a MOC is very different from purchasing a set from LEGO.

Sometimes I just want to get excited about an upcoming set, buy it, and build it in a cozy winter afternoon during the holidays. All the bricks come in the same box along with a neat instruction booklet guiding me comfortably through an entirely new and full of surprises building experience.

Basically, what I’m saying is that us MOCers would like to have the same privilege to enjoy LEGO sets.

Maybe I’ve become too much of a “train expert” and I’ve reached a point of no return, in such a way that no train set will ever be able to scratch my itch. After seeing all the steam engines LEGO had to offer since 2009 I’m inclined to believe that is very much the case. However, you can’t blame me for thinking otherwise…

Just this year we got the 10318 Concorde set, and in 2021 the 10294 Titanic. A couple of mind-blowing accurate models of two renowned luxury vehicles, packed to the brim with intricate details. Forgive me for being too naïve, but I expected just as much from The Orient Express.

I guess you could argue that the Concord and Titanic sets were never intended to fly or sail respectively, whereas the Orient Express is (most likely) meant to run on track. Cue in the ever-popular argument that TLG’s train track is too restrictive, and only the existing train wheels in a very precise configuration are able to pass LEGO’s strict quality control. Which, okay, I don’t have the energy to argue against this statement. Let’s take that 4-6-0 Hogwarts Express/Lone Ranger configuration that everyone is talking about and use it as our OE base. We could have still received a more realistic steam engine smokebox, boiler, firebox and cab combination on top, that both “train experts” and LEGO fans who aren’t so keen on trains alike could have enjoyed.

Again, if you yourself like this set and are excited to get it, I’m genuinely happy for you. I’m just sad I’m not one of you.

 

Sincerely,

A tired LEGO train fan who never learns.

[Shiva]

@*thomas* cheers :)

[Yperio_Bricks]

5 hours ago, *thomas* said:

Youtube review: 

 

You shattered my dreams about the Lego OE

[Carefree_Dude]

Some of those Mould King trains look pretty appealing. Maybe its cooperate brainwash though, but the idea of the off brand lego makes me feel dirty. 
Also can it run on lego track? 

I suspect most of that $300 price tag goes into the heavily detailed and very large coaches. They did really well on those. 

Heck I wouldn't be surprised if you were to buy two of this set, if you could easily make a really nice locomotive out of the parts of the two locomotives between the two sets. 

Of course thats like 600 bucks there. 

 

[ivanlan9]

Yeah, I'll probably get two myself.  I can run the Emerald Night on my layout, but a full 8-wide like this will bang into things & make me have to rebuild a few things--irritatedly   Plus it'll look funny on the curves--of which I have a lot.  But at least it's not 10-wide or a giant 30-wide which would *really* piss me off.

But with two, I can have four cars* and one *improved* engine.

-----

* I'm planning on having 4 different configurations

[*thomas*]

14 hours ago, Carefree_Dude said:

Some of those Mould King trains look pretty appealing. Maybe its cooperate brainwash though, but the idea of the off brand lego makes me feel dirty. 
Also can it run on lego track? 

I too found it difficult to step away from LEGO, untill you start doing the maths and compare the 'bang for buck'. The last few years there has been a huge offering from other brands that use bricks based on the LEGO design.
Each to their own, but as long as they don't copy a design from LEGO, I don't have any problems with it. Imagine if we all had to buy cars / domestic apparel / medical supplies or worse, food... from the same supplier? No one would accept that. 

[Phil-B259]

On 10/13/2023 at 8:33 AM, KvadratGnezdo said:

Like come on, this thing doesn't even have a smokebox and the proportions are all wrong.

 

 

 

On 10/13/2023 at 9:22 AM, samsz_3 said:

Yeah - I also really don't like the lack of a smoke box. I think I'll add one when I extend the locomotive.

Don't talk nonsense...

The loco does have a smokebox!  (its the black bit at the front of the boiler) - what it doesn't have is smoke deflectors bolted to the side of the smokebox which makes it less noticiblle

Now just in case it was a typo (and also because i have seen some posts on the subject of fireboxes) this loco does indeed also have a firebox. The 'square' Belpare firebox is a later innovation and many powerful locomotives (including the Flying Scotsman) used the earlier round top firebox type - as featured on this design.

[KvadratGnezdo]

On 10/14/2023 at 5:46 PM, Ferro-Friki said:

If anyone still cares about the whole engine debacle, I would like to add my two cents if you don’t mind.

For those of you arguing that those who are unsatisfied with TLG’s OE engine should either modify it or build a MOC altogether:

This is a 300€ set we’re talking about, and I don’t now about you, but that’s a hefty price tag in my opinion. Buying a 300€ set and then having to modify it to achieve the intended result is beyond my comprehension. Besides, if we’re going to have to buy separate bricks, we’re better off building a MOC, which brings me to the next point:

I think the argument that those of us unsatisfied with the engine should build our own version entirely from scratch is very much right. Here’s the thing though, I don’t want to.

Building a MOC, in my experience, is a very extensive process which involves research, measurements, sketches and a lot of trial and error. Of course, someone more experienced than me might be able to create MOCs with a lot more ease, however, you can’t deny that building a MOC is very different from purchasing a set from LEGO.

Sometimes I just want to get excited about an upcoming set, buy it, and build it in a cozy winter afternoon during the holidays. All the bricks come in the same box along with a neat instruction booklet guiding me comfortably through an entirely new and full of surprises building experience.

Basically, what I’m saying is that us MOCers would like to have the same privilege to enjoy LEGO sets.

Maybe I’ve become too much of a “train expert” and I’ve reached a point of no return, in such a way that no train set will ever be able to scratch my itch. After seeing all the steam engines LEGO had to offer since 2009 I’m inclined to believe that is very much the case. However, you can’t blame me for thinking otherwise…

Just this year we got the 10318 Concorde set, and in 2021 the 10294 Titanic. A couple of mind-blowing accurate models of two renowned luxury vehicles, packed to the brim with intricate details. Forgive me for being too naïve, but I expected just as much from The Orient Express.

I guess you could argue that the Concord and Titanic sets were never intended to fly or sail respectively, whereas the Orient Express is (most likely) meant to run on track. Cue in the ever-popular argument that TLG’s train track is too restrictive, and only the existing train wheels in a very precise configuration are able to pass LEGO’s strict quality control. Which, okay, I don’t have the energy to argue against this statement. Let’s take that 4-6-0 Hogwarts Express/Lone Ranger configuration that everyone is talking about and use it as our OE base. We could have still received a more realistic steam engine smokebox, boiler, firebox and cab combination on top, that both “train experts” and LEGO fans who aren’t so keen on trains alike could have enjoyed.

Again, if you yourself like this set and are excited to get it, I’m genuinely happy for you. I’m just sad I’m not one of you.

 

Sincerely,

A tired LEGO train fan who never learns.

This 100%

 

[Carefree_Dude]

also just a random thought, but assuming Lego wanted to keep two train cars, It's hard to imagine any TrainTech approved locomotive they could add to this set that wouldn't raise the price to well above $500. 

I feel this community wouldn't be please with a locomotive for this set (especially compared to the source ideas material) that wouldn't have more than 2K parts by itself. 

So maybe it's a blessing they are like "hey here's a cheap steam engine, go make your own if you don't like it"

I love this community to death (Some really great people here) but damn do some of us (myself included) have high expectations. 

[Lyichir]

24 minutes ago, Carefree_Dude said:

also just a random thought, but assuming Lego wanted to keep two train cars, It's hard to imagine any TrainTech approved locomotive they could add to this set that wouldn't raise the price to well above $500. 

I feel this community wouldn't be please with a locomotive for this set (especially compared to the source ideas material) that wouldn't have more than 2K parts by itself. 

So maybe it's a blessing they are like "hey here's a cheap steam engine, go make your own if you don't like it"

I love this community to death (Some really great people here) but damn do some of us (myself included) have high expectations. 

High expectations? I thought you were Carefree_Dude!

[Shiva]

If LEGO did 1 gauge locomotives, then I know whose builds I would compare LEGO's locomotives to. And I would be interested in buying too, if good.

I do not have 1 gauge, tho. But, anyway.

[Aanchir]

20 hours ago, ivanlan9 said:

Yeah, I'll probably get two myself.  I can run the Emerald Night on my layout, but a full 8-wide like this will bang into things & make me have to rebuild a few things--irritatedly   Plus it'll look funny on the curves--of which I have a lot.  But at least it's not 10-wide or a giant 30-wide which would *really* piss me off. 

Yeah I definitely think LEGO made the right call by narrowing this compared to the original proposal. 8-wide is still fairly big for an official LEGO train set, but it's way less burdensome than if it had been 10 or 11 studs wide like the original project (especially since so many trains already extend beyond 6 studs wide with some of their protruding details like railings, driving rods, ladders, running boards, and door handles). But unfortunately you're right that it'd be too wide for layout features with a narrow clearance like the arched doors of the Train Engine Shed from 2003. I can only imagine how much work it'd be to retrofit a full layout built for 6-wide trains to fit wider cabs and carriages like in this set.

Not sure how the carriages will handle curves at this length either, even though the length has definitely been reduced a great deal compared to the original Ideas proposal (which was around the same overall length with just ONE carriage as the final set is with two)! They seem to be around 46 studs long, which I believe is the longest of any L-gauge passenger coach in an official set. The Orient Express's height is thankfully much more forgiving — best I can tell, it's just one brick taller than the Emerald Night carriage and just one plate taller than the Railroad Club Car. So that should hopefully be less of an issue for people to account for in their layouts.

For my part (as someone without a train layout), I'm glad they only reduced the carriages to 8-wide so that the corridors still seem reasonably accessible. That pleases me greatly compared to earlier trains like Horizon Express (which less than one stud width between the bathroom and the opposite wall — not nearly enough space for a minifig to pass through even by shimmying sideways). To me, that falls into the same sort of category as vehicles without opening doors or buildings without stairs/ladders/lifts — I can generally accept all that stuff in KFOL-oriented sets, but it's kind of bummer to encounter in a premium set aimed at TFOLs or AFOLs like this one. Moreover, it'd feel weird to me if the interior of a famous luxury train like the Orient Express were as sparsely furnished as that of other 6-wide train sets.

Your comment about making more cars with two copies of the set definitely has me very eager to see what kind of custom carriages builders come out with for this set once it's released, since of course the real Orient Express would have had more than just two types of carriages! I'll be keen on seeing how your attempts at a more impressive locomotive turn out as well!

[mark6399]

The color almost looks Dark Azure to me, comparing it to the minifigure outfits. That would be a cool color choice!

I think this is a solid set. Yes, the engine is short and a little disappointing, but I love that it has two carriages that are longer than a standard train base plate. I have a feeling that we'll think that it looks way better in person once it is released. 

[ToledoRails]

On 10/14/2023 at 5:04 AM, *thomas* said:

Sorry if this has already been said, but I guess this is part of the reason why LEGO choose a different approach for the locomotive

Was Mouldking faster with designing it? 

Mould King was faster, and as far as I can tell, this was designed from their own team to beat Lego to the punch on the set. I've got the set on my workbench and working on a review to compare to it to the TLG release whenever that comes out. I've cut my teeth reviewing Mould King and other Chinese brick company's trains and they're... a mixed bag but so far this appears *fingers crossed* to iron out a lot of the kinks they've had. All of these sets fall short of expectations in a way, so I'm curious to see how this falls apart, and since it won't be sponsored, I can tear it a new one in case it is sub-par. I'm genuinely sick of Reddit, YT, or Facebook comments posting a picutre of these sets and saying, "sEe WhAt OtHeRs CaN dO fOr LeSs?" when they don't realize what they're backing because of a price tag and a seemingly better looking train.

As it stands, it's fascinating to see the two evolutionary branches off of the Lego ideas set.

Edited October 16, 2023 by ToledoRails

[Carefree_Dude]

I believe part of the reason these Chinese brands are so cheap (price point i mean) is that they don't have as rigorously high standards for their parts as Lego does. I bought a non-lego Union Pacific Big Boy, and many of the parts are actually really good, and fit well together. Sadly though a lot of the more nuanced pieces (like the train wheels) attach rather loosely. Also the plastic just has this ever so slightly different feel to it that's hard to describe. 

That aside though, the price point for what you get is amazing, and by simply swapping out a few of the parts for genuine lego parts, you have a very solid model, and with some modification you can even make it run on lego track. 

(actually the design of it kinda weirds me out? It almost looks like they took someone' else's motorized big boy MOC, made a few minor changes, ripped out the motors and some of the axels and stuff, and called it their own)