Bregir

Shipwrights Guild Hall (WIPs, feedback, and advice)

Recommended Posts

Greetings, shipwrights.

Whether a novice, an apprentice, a master, or a veteran shipwright, following the process of others, sharing your own, and giving and receiving feedback can help everyone improve.

What's the point?
This is just a place for all of us liberally to post WIP's for feedbacks, tips, suggestions, and questions, without otherwise littering the BoBS forum with WIP's. You can post just one step in the process, or several over a period. It's all up to you. :pir-blush:

So I am working on a vessel/ship - what do I do?
Post one or more pictures, questions, ship-plans, descriptions, etc. here, and hopefully someone will step in with some wonderful advice. At least, I expect to do so.
:pir-laugh:

I know NOTHING about ships - can I comment, and how do I do?

Everyone with something constructive to say can comment. No need to be a scholar in historic vessels, medieval carpentry or sail making. Sometimes it might just be aesthetics, a crazy idea, a suggestion for a technique, use of a specific brick, or whatever you can think of. Just keep it nice and constructive. In return, builders posting here will pwomise not to take offense! :pir-grin: 

I'd suggest tagging the builder you are commenting on.

But I am not an expert - the arrogant elite will laugh at my puny attempts at shipbuilding!

First of all, the arrogant elite was not invited. In fact, they have been given specific instructions to go back to their fancy little elitist coffee houses to talk about how brilliant they are.

Secondly, regarding puny attempts, take a look at my first attempt at a ship just two and a half years ago... Well, you really don't have to look. Move along... Nothing to see here... :pir-grin:

The rather obvious point being, we all start somewhere, and no matter where you start, or how steep your learning curve is. The only requirement is that you want to share your process, learn from others, share your ideas, and/or improve.

Soooo, is this something official? What will I gain from participating? EGS bonuses?
HAH! This is merely me gone rogue - and I may hang from my toes for it! No official bonuses here. However, I'd like to see a bit more focus on the process and techniques of building here, and I think ships is an interesting place to start.

This is, however, quite likely to be replaced, superseded, or added to by something official at some point in the future.

Who manages this and keeps the record?

Manages? Keeps records? Bwahahaha - forget it! Just post your WIP's and comments. Don't overthink it! :pir-blush:

________________________________________________________________________

Kick off!

Oooohkay, here we go:

I have been working on a 4th rate, circa 50 guns on two decks. I present to you: The HMS Endeavour.

Started here:

30203364744_5af6f44b05.jpg

Went here:

30554601550_483ef1638c.jpg

And have ended here:

30247673393_0aebcd4b22_c.jpg

She is supposed to be the first in a series of 4th rates designed for colonial waters. A 4th rate is a small ship of the line between 46 and 60 guns, just above frigate size. This one is (IC) specifically designed to serve as flagship for colonial squadrons, sailing in consort with frigates and sloops.

Looking forward to hearing your comments! :pir-blush: And to see your WIP's! :pir-wink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, if you ask:P

So, for your ship - I've told you a few times to try out some small different coloured parts for the quarterdeck and the forecastle, maybe regular blue as a light contrast. Maybe you'll listen now:P I'm also looking forward how you'll solve the lower part of the bow - I don't see yet how it'll go:P Also for the bow - you could definetly go up a bit in the curve for the bow, especially considering how you are building it.

__________________________

So, now for me. I've recently stumbled over a plan of a Venetian Ship of the Line (Fregatta Grossa; if the link doesn't show a picture for you use this one; this drawing is just a concept drawing, the ship wasn't actually built), which I think is one of the most beautiful Ships of the Line I have seen so far. So, now see what I have so far. Well, technically I have most of the stuff in my mind, the only actual build part is a rough frame for seeing how big it'll end up. A few notes on it further down.

30751104182_413d35e6fb_z.jpg

So, a few facts about the hull (those might not be correct just yet, they are the calculated values and might be off on the brick drawing above). Total length from end to end (including stern and headrails) will be around 128 studs, with 5 studs between 2 wide gunports. Gundeck layout will be 26/26/12, so it'll be a 64 gun 3rd rate. Colourscheme will follow the Venetian one; the common yellow-black hull, but in this case with red gunports and further details. Expect a proper update sometime in about 1 1/2 weeks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good initiative. Make... ähh... shipbuilding great again! :grin:

@Bregir Are you using these arches for the beak head? I suggest you replace them with regular inverted slopes (or something else) to receive a smoother shape. Also, if you want to go for realism, your (well... the ship's) keel / beak head should be one stud wide only. You're off to a good start here - and great colors, again :wink: In general - and also again - DPW's HMS Persephone might serve as a top source of inspiration, given the way you're constructing the Endeavor. And if you haven't seen it yet, also check her WIP thread!

@Legostone Hurry up, I want to see more! :grin:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/9/2016 at 4:29 PM, Bregir said:

First of all, the arrogant elite was not invited. In fact, they have been given specific instructions to go back to their fancy little elitist coffee houses to talk about how brilliant they are.

:cry_sad: I received no such notice. Perhaps it was delivered to this coffee shop of which you speak. :grin:

 

It looks great on it's own but with a figure on deck, she seems really small. I like the curved sides, but it just looks like a lot of extra bow; perhaps the focsle needs to extend further out. I do like the color scheme, but tend to agree with Legostone on this one. As the build progresses, consider adding some accent colors like Beatrix, perhaps. It's not only likely to help the design pop, but always helps me stretch my brick supply.

 

Legostone: that SoL looks like a real head ache. No really, those decks seem super low. Though I'd expect to bang my head on the deck beams at every turn, it is a slick looking design. I have no doubt you'll manage to make her as pretty in Lego.

 

:devil: There ya go, and you thought I was gonna get all technical and boring. Shame on you! :tongue:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First of all let me say two things: I absolutely adore the color scheme! And secondly, the 50 gun SOL (Ship-of-the-Line) Is one of my favorite types!

I would maby move the bow a bit closer, so that the cure starts earlier, closer to the gunports. As for now it looks a bit odd as it starts far from the gunport´s. Other than that, I am keeping a close eye on this one. 

Fair winds and calm seas!
Captain Charles J. Becker

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alright, just to show some colors - the right ones - here's what the Royal Shipyards are up to these days:

The 74-gun 3rd rate Monarque

30828087651_fa380e1941_c.jpg

Some might remember this ancient WIP thread. Well, storing digital ships is kind of super easy... so after a long long time in dry-dock Monarque is currently undergoing modernization and will arrive here when needed :wink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great to see some activity here! And it seems we lured out some of the veterans! :pir-grin:

On ‎11‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 6:31 AM, kurigan said:

There ya go, and you thought hoped I was gonna get all technical and boring. Shame on you! 

Fixed that for ya! :pir-grin:

If anywhere, this is exactly where you should get technical! Bring it on! :pir-laugh:

@Legostone

As I said elsewhere, I too like those plans, and I will be looking very much forward to seeing your rendition! While achieving those sleek lines might require some compromise on deck height, I have every confidence you will make it work! I have only two comments to your current WIP: 1) That size! and 2) I am not sure I like that "fishtail-shape" you've got going with the cabin. I think it should be parallel sides, rather than protruding like that. But it really is hard to see how it will work out so soon! :pir-grin:

@Kolonialbeamter

I bring out a 48, and you absotively have to bring out something bigger! Seems like BoBS will be prone to a huge arms race some time soon! ( @Maxim I started it, though! :tongue:)

I have to say, she is looking absolutely fabulous, if perhaps a little boxy. Her curves are very straight, suggesting a late period ship. Rigging looks great, and she's even got royals up top! :pir-oh: Her bow is expertly done, with some really organic shaping! And with all that gingerbreadwork, she looks fit for her name! A flagship for the [Insert French name for navy]?

_________________________________________________

Also, back to ships of the REAL Royal Navy, and in honour of her majesty Queen Anetta, I present to you an update of the HMS Endeavour:

She is now approximate 84 studs at the waterline, approximately 24 studs wide, and will be carrying 48 guns in her broadsides (excluding carronades on the upper works and possibly guns in the cabin).

30674588610_f55410bb9b_z.jpg

I am quite happy with how her bow turned out, and I think the forecastle looks less abrupt now. She still needs a figurehead, some detailing and a solution for the waterline at the bow, but I am quite pleased with her curves.

30976026455_246015cfcd_z.jpg

More so, I like how her stern turned out, and I knew those Moorish arches would be good for something! :pir-grin:

As to colourful accents, I will probably stick to the black of the gunports, stern and bow, possibly interspersed with a little pearl gold or yellow if I feel frisky! :pir-wink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Bregir

Arm race? What arm race? Did I started it? :blush:

Anyway, talking about "Margot", a small update:

After my succesfull trip to Skaerbaek, I have rerigged her completely and rebuild the galleries. She has also 4 more guns now (59 to be exact). Pictures will arrive soon.

I finished rerigging thursday and then when transporting the ship, a box felt on it. So this weekend I have rerigged her again...

30679376580_5d15320f16_c.jpg

Now I have still have to do the sails and some minor stuff...

I am planning to post the final result as a new ship, but then as an Indiaman (as I will remove half the cannons so she fits an Indiaman) with the possibility of heavy warship. If I am correct, this is allowed as the amount of guns has changed, there are modifications (also new figurehead etc) and the ships has been rerigged  (twice in fact)? :classic:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Will be looking forward to seeing her rerigged. And with a rerig and removal of some of the guns, she could probably be licensed as an indiaman. However, then changing that new moc back to a warship seems a bit much.

But you can ask the licensing court when you have the finished refurbished vessel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great idea for a thread and some real masterpieces in the works.

@Bregir It might help if you're able to have the inverted slopes forming the bottom of the hull curve along with the rest of the ship. I'm not a fan of the straight line at the bottom of the hull, and I think elevating them by a plate or two where appropriate could help.

@Legostone I second Bregir. The fishtail stern (I assume it's for the gallery) looks a little overdone right now. Not sure what you have in mind, but I think it should be less pronounced.

@Maxim I That's quite the display you've got there. Hopefully you'll post some color pictures of the improved rigged (any the display) when you get a chance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The new bow is certainly and improvement. In particular I appreciate how you continued the sheer curve from stem to stern. Too often we see a leveling out fore and aft lending an awkwardness to a MOC's appearance. It does seem to be about a plate to high though. The black inverted arches really help, but without any other black accents (I assume they are forthcoming) they stand out and bit much. 

 

The stern gallery looks neat. Don't think I've ever known an example of a SoL with only a single deck gallery, though I could be wrong. For BoBS though, it wouldn't really matter. What's really slick is the way you used arches to mimic counter. Stern on, my first impression wasn't exactly convinced but the forward quarter shot really sells it, with the gallery looking like I hangs out ever so far. 

 

How do you feel about "gravity connections"? My thinking is that the conventional gunflaps look a bit cumbersome on such a small scale and bright color scheme. I've had some luck using 2 X 2 tiles, resting in the gun port for closed and held on with a 2 X 3 plate for open. If you're curious I can share an image later. They come out flush, instead of bumps along the hull. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@kurigan I think I actually gave Bregir the idea of a single decked cabin for a SOTL, it wasn't common for french and British ships, but it was somewhat common for the dutch ones. Here is an example, even though I don't remember which ship it was:

dYvBw3T.jpg

(A couple more examples: First,  Second, Third; source)

@Bregir, @Captain Genaro Don't worry about the fishtail, it was just a drawing for the cabin position(I was also on really limited parts). It won't actually have that shape. I'll see how much I can get done over the weekend, I have a pretty decent plan how to do this already...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Legostone said:

@kurigan I think I actually gave Bregir the idea of a single decked cabin for a SOTL, it wasn't common for french and British ships, but it was somewhat common for the dutch ones. Here is an example, even though I don't remember which ship it was:

 

Almost had me! It looks like an authentic Admiralty print, because it is. It's been edited though. See the lace of a heavy boarder on top of the quarter gallery and how the quarter deck gunwale just ends abruptly? That doesn't mean they didn't exist though. My limited experience is by no means the entirety of maritime culture. Now I really want someone to come out with a real example :cry_sad:

 

Here's a curious thing but i can't authenticate it as the scan is to low-rez to make out the writing.

https://goo.gl/images/2x1dFJ

It looks Like a SoL at first glance, but then why are the lower ports so small? It's possible these are plans for razee in to which they planned to cut ports for sweeps.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, kurigan said:

Almost had me! It looks like an authentic Admiralty print, because it is. It's been edited though. See the lace of a heavy boarder on top of the quarter gallery and how the quarter deck gunwale just ends abruptly? That doesn't mean they didn't exist though. My limited experience is by no means the entirety of maritime culture. Now I really want someone to come out with a real example :cry_sad:

 

Here's a curious thing but i can't authenticate it as the scan is to low-rez to make out the writing.

https://goo.gl/images/2x1dFJ

It looks Like a SoL at first glance, but then why are the lower ports so small? It's possible these are plans for razee in to which they planned to cut ports for sweeps.

7

Well, Example 3 seems to have more than two full gundecks, so maybe that is a more legitimate example? I was also wondering about that odd shaping on the first one I linked, it was just the first example I found when I started looking for this kind of SOTL a few weeks ago.

So, let's go with a different nation for an example. The Venetian Fama, a 64 gun third rate (Well, Fregata Grossa, but with 64 guns it would be a third rate in more common terms) (actually the ship I was considering before finding the plans for the study on the lines on a Fregata Grossa):

das-erbe-der-serenissima-piano.jpg
As usual, my source for ship plans. There are also some very interesting Xebecs there...:D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Legostone said:

So, let's go with a different nation for an example. The Venetian Fama, a 64 gun third rate (Well, Fregata Grossa, but with 64 guns it would be a third rate in more common terms) (actually the ship I was considering before finding the plans for the study on the lines on a Fregata Grossa):

OK, now that does seem just a might bit more legitimate. Now I don’t have to be the bad guy telling everyone it never existed :grin: Thanks! Also, that’s a nice looking ship. So… moving along: here’s a couple images of those gun ports I described.

20160629_222212_zpsx0krtmwz.jpg

20160629_222149_zpsrdjlw7fu.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎14‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 11:57 PM, Captain Genaro said:

@Bregir It might help if you're able to have the inverted slopes forming the bottom of the hull curve along with the rest of the ship. I'm not a fan of the straight line at the bottom of the hull, and I think elevating them by a plate or two where appropriate could help.

Thanks for the suggestion, but this was actually what I tried first, and I didn't like the result - it gives a series of jagged edges, plus a strange vertical edge at the waterline where I have raised the slopes. (Plus, there is no room on the inside of the construction... :tongue: )

@kurigan Thanks! I think I will rework the bow a little bit to "perfect" the curve. And yeah, I agree, often it seems like bow and stern hangs a bit, since the curve isn't continued. (Look at the bow of my very own ironsides.) I am still considering how I will include the accents, but I think I will have to experiment to find a good solution.

About the gallery, @Legostone and I discussed it too (including the cut-away in that ship plan - I think it is simply due to those parts not being structurally important, and perhaps not designed from the onset). I actually do not think it was so rare, although my evidence is anecdotal. Especially on smaller two-deckers, like mine, the lower gundeck is carried very close to the waterline, and having a fragile cabin down there just isn't very practical, as a large wave might bust it in, flooding the decks. Of course, this is mainly relevant for late era ships, were the curve of the hull doesn't elevate the ends of the gundecks considerably.

As to your idea for gunports (thanks for the pics - looks nice, is it modelled after any particular vessel?) I might try it out, but for now I am fairly content with the "simple" solution. And in any case, I am probably not going to let any of them remain open, as I wont have the guns to put in there anyway... :pir-look:

On ‎17‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 1:58 AM, kurigan said:

It looks Like a SoL at first glance, but then why are the lower ports so small? It's possible these are plans for razee in to which they planned to cut ports for sweeps.

The test says something like Fregat (van?) Oorlog, which suggests to me that it is a Dutch frigate. And if we assume that the lower ports are for sweeps, it would make it a small 28 gun frigate. However, sweeps for a frigate seems like the absolute upper limit - but then again, those Dutch, and I can't see what else it would be... :grin: Don't see why you would think it a razee, though.

@Legostone I am pretty sure Fregata Grossa is simply Italian for ship of the line. :classic:

____________________________________

In other news, I have been working on a small war galley:

31045220716_f27a845b50_c.jpg

Edited by Bregir

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, a small image of the progress I made today won't hurt, wouldn't it? Not much text as I need to watch The Grand Tour now:P

31091898025_16717389c5_z.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Legostone said:

Well, a small image of the progress I made today won't hurt, wouldn't it?

Definitely doesn't hurt. Looking pretty cool already - sleek lines... the bow is well integrated... loving that figure head :laugh: Good call to go for a single-stud-wide keel :thumbup:

1 hour ago, Legostone said:

I need to watch The Grand Tour now:P

The man's got taste :thumbup:

@Bregir Scumbag Corry: blames others for starting naval arms race... builds two vessels :grin: JK. Well, that galley design is interesting, and your Endeavor is getting better and better. At first I didn't really like the stern galleries (the use of those arches, to be specific), but the design is growing on me :thumbup:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Kolonialbeamter said:

Definitely doesn't hurt. Looking pretty cool already - sleek lines... the bow is well integrated... loving that figure head :laugh: Good call to go for a single-stud-wide keel :thumbup:

The man's got taste :thumbup:

2

Glad you like that figurehead, I think it looks a bit too silly, but if it is this popular I guess I'll see if I can keep it as is:D Single stud wide keel works well with this building technique:D

Thanks!:D

1 hour ago, Capt Wolf said:

Looking sharp! Love that figurehead!

Thanks!

Now, to the main reason I wanted to post this (I totally forgot to do this earlier on):

Getting the lines right on a ship can be difficult, especially working with plans. To get my lines as accurate as possible (although I usually just use them to get the basic shape) I can only recommend Sariels Scaling tool , it is pretty much self-explaining and works pretty well. To get the right scale just use the width of a gunport + the spacing you want between your gunports on the plan you are using. If you want to browse ship plans, I can only recommend the Gamelabs Forum's shipyard , there is a gigantic collection of them (with a different intended use, but that doesn't matter for us). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Legostone said:

Getting the lines right on a ship can be difficult, especially working with plans. To get my lines as accurate as possible (although I usually just use them to get the basic shape) I can only recommend Sariels Scaling tool , it is pretty much self-explaining and works pretty well. To get the right scale just use the width of a gunport + the spacing you want between your gunports on the plan you are using. If you want to browse ship plans, I can only recommend the Gamelabs Forum's shipyard , there is a gigantic collection of them (with a different intended use, but that doesn't matter for us). 

I'll have to check out that scaling tool (just took a quick peek right now). Thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With all these WIP ship ideas, it made me want to try something. This is just a hull piece in LDD. I don't know if I'll actually use this, but the file is saved for a maybe future big ship.

30290909133_c9f64ded53.jpg

30290912263_a67cc32d00.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bregir:

 

Good point. On closer inspection I really don’t know other than the main battery seems so high above the waterline and it came up in a search for ships of the line. Both faulty basis for consideration. Oops :wacko:

 

Thanks, she’s been broken up as well, that having been about the 6th rejected version of Scorpion. She’s loosely based on Rattlesnake, but was just a mock-up. Ultimately I can’t foresee having the bricks to complete a three master any time soon. She’s once again been reduced to a brig, but time will tell how far that project goes.

 

I can’t reference this, I lost where I had read it, perhaps in a novel, but to my understanding Fregata Grossa  is explained something like this: It means Big Frigate, the Venetians classically not having had such large men of war as ships of the line. When demands of a world at war convinced them to build up their navy as a global force, they approached it from the stand point of developing on what they already had, the largest ships in their arsenal being European built frigates, so that’s where from they proceeded. Thus, to the Venetian system what we call a small ship of the line is a larger frigate. It think it comes from a lack of direct translation too. It’s like us calling everything that’s big and floats a ship, but most things aren’t and would be better referred to as something more specific that might be from another language where it simple means “ship”.

 

There that was a fun bit of speculation. I could be entirely wrong :look:

 

A doubled mast? I don’t think I’ve seen that before. Was that a thing, or is it just for the game? I’m honestly asking.

 

Legostone:

That is looking quite slick. The figure head is fun, but undoubtedly going to be in the way of the bowsprit. The head rails are a nice technique and give a sense of the scale of the thing. I’ll be watching this one to be sure. So few ships of the line get finished. Perhaps you’d find the gun ports useful here?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@kuriganThanks! I have since noticed that, and have adjusted the bow and figurehead accordingly, it fits quite well now. Pictures tomorrow though... I sure hope to finish this one, and so far it is going very smooth:D The gunports - not too useful for me as I intend to keep the lower gunports closed (and I think with the 5 stud spacing the regular ones work quite well) and the upper ones as they are (they are the same way in the plan I am using). I even have the 26 18 pounders (although with yellow carriages as I had those ready) build already, but I won't have enough parts to fill the lower gundeck with bigger guns, and I won't even dare to talk about the space available (after all this ship is very low as you already noticed) in the lower gundeck. I think if my measuring is correct I'll likely end up with 3 studs and 2 plates height for the upper gundeck, so it'll be very cramped...

Also, I might return to my old green frigate soon, but as it seems now it'll receive a complete rebuild, and it'll be a lot smaller than it is now...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The way i see everybody's WIPs around here, we must all stock up on black 2x2 flags and their respective modified 1x2 plates for gunports... AND sufficient round 2x2 bricks for masts!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
You are commenting as a guest. If you have an account, please sign in.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoticons maximum are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.