BlueSmartControl

[zux]

Andreasp, from your user name and details on BSC webpage I suppose you are its main (only?) developer. I found your reply a bit unprofessional. Instead of blaming SBrick you would better provide some details on questions raised in this topic. This would help community understand if BSC has potential to be used in the future.

PS. Please be aware SBrick already had quite large team of engineers, developers and PR during their Kickstarter campaign.

[Andreasp]

@ epic technic Did You read the Patent ????

If Yes, yo should have seen that even the way where the signals are located on the connector is covered !!!!!!

Do You remember how Long LEGO was fighten the patent for brick in the 90's -- good luck for everybody to overcome.

The SBrick Design is NOT VERY different!!!

[Epic Technic]

@ epic technic Did You read the Patent ????

If Yes, yo should have seen that even the way where the signals are located on the connector is covered !!!!!!

Do You remember how Long LEGO was fighten the patent for brick in the 90's -- good luck for everybody to overcome.

The SBrick Design is NOT VERY different!!!

The SBrick is made up of a few main parts, the out casing, and the electronics inside. The SBrick's casing can be separated in order to take the electronics out ( and also the signals/contacts). The casing it self does not uses a different design of male plug and stud in order to connect the PF cable.

Due to the SBrick being made up of two pieces, it is not similar enough to the LEGO patent.

Regarding the BSC, what is its approximate range?

Edited April 26, 2015 by Epic Technic

[Yorick]

Comparing this to Sbrick the main difference are connectors - original ones in Sbrick, custom adapters here. Knowing the cost of original connectors (~7 Euro per piece) and knowing that there is no real alternative (even on aliexpress) this is the major cost issue there - extra 3,5 Euro per connected device (cable from lego cut in half resulting in 2 connectors - with only one of them bidirectional, as one has 9V / 2x2 stud connector). That is exactly the case that I consider upon doing own board (with friend / for own use) with tiny BT chip and some small CPU. Finally all these are similar, but the choice of BLE in Sbrick was not the best one - still BT seems to be better suited to cope with proportional steering of multiple engines, and additional steering / sensors. Actually androids from 4.0 or 4.1 has the same BT stack delivered by one company (and ~ open source) so the bottom of the Andoid app should not be that hard to do. Apparently it is more upper layers of an application that sbrick team is not really focusing. I'm just curious that neither these nor sbrick does not allow any generic sensors - even with some small Operating systems it should not be a problem.

For me the situation now looks like that:

- SBrick - most easygoing solution, yet pricey, with unclear status vs lego patents, slow progress on android, and still some issues on IOS (and my IPAD is not that handy as andoid mobile)

- BlueSmartControl - not yet there, potential issue with connectors (extra adapters require some space in MOC), but more advanced for some scripting

- LEGO - sleeping?

- own solution - least elegant, but with some cheap 3D printer it should reach acceptable design, the toughest to play with, but most flexible for customization.

Actually I'm just wondering why there is no open source SW/HW for that purpose yet? Or is there something? Found that: http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=87340

Edited April 26, 2015 by Yorick

[Boxerlego]

The SBrick does not use the same PF connector design, it is quite different. Different enough to keep the Vengit team out of trouble.

Well technically Sbrick actually does use the PF connector design and so does BSC but in their own ways, I don't see both products with there own cable connector so therefore both are subsequently using the PF LEGO cable connector. The big difference here BSC PF cable require modification one end to use while Sbrick PF cable requires none but overall both had to buy the PF cable from LEGO. Which brings up the big debate which one is better. I think Sbrick is better when it comes to begin a official product working out of the box of the shelf however I think BSC is slightly better in both design electronics and capabilities. Overall its boils down to this like with anything which one fits your needs better, both products are good choices so what if BSC is slightly better then Sbrick when it comes something or vice versa. You will find out like everyone else. Lets just be thankful enough that Sariel can test both of them and give us this door of perception on them.

[Epic Technic]

@Boxerlego

The SBrick does not actually use the Lego connectors unless you mean for the power supply. Then in that case you do need it.

Well summed up

[alltypesofbricks]

this seems like an interesting topic but I am going to stay with Lego PF for now

[rehnskit]

What is happening with this product?

Now it's soon March 2016 and nothing happened.

Anyone know any news?

[roppie11]

well, i just checked out the site and there was no news or something. on their facebook, the latest post was the 13th of october 2015. not so much happening

[Andreasp]

Hello LEGO Friends

The long awaited BlueSmartControl is live on Kickstarter !

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1628872772/bluesmartcontrol-remote-lego-or-fischertechnik-cre?ref=nav_search

BUT, please read the whole info, because this is not just another S......, its a complete new and different approach to control LEGO's or even any other LowVoltage (11Volt) Motors or Lights or whatever You like !

It is a Remote Control Center with Response Control, that means You will get infos back from Your Model, e.g. if the lever is fully extracted or if the supports of the ground and so on.

There is no limit in the possibilities this Unit will bring to You.

It can Control up to six Motors or lights and supports 4 Response chanels.

And You can connect an RFID reader to it, so You will e.g know where Your train is all the time !!!

The housing is so small, so it will fit even in the smallest model.

Hope You will like this new product

Whenever You have a question, please send me an PN

Andreas

[zux]

I don't see why this even related to LEGO? There is zero compatibility.

What are the dimensions (in studs)?

How can control unit and battery (is it even included?) can be attached to LEGO creation, that is to bricks or Technic beams?

Existing electric LEGO cables cannot be attached to control unit without serious modification.

On the other note, I see some basic information is missing, like:

What is the reliably working range?

How power hungry control unit is?

How does BSC handles 6 most power hungry LEGO PF motors working simultaneously?

Which battery units are compatible.

PS. I found the questions raised almost a year ago wasn't answered yet. It gives me the feel I don't like when the project doesn't even try to make something needed for community but rather ask for money straight away.

Edited April 6, 2016 by zux

[februar88]

I have only one question: "I have a Sbrick, why should i buy this new product and put my Sbrick on a shelf?"

Thanks for Murvai we have absolutely brilliant way of control models via Sbrick.

So it should be way better than Sbrick, because i've spent a lot already.

[Kelkschiz]

I think it is great to have people develop 3rd party solutions for the LEGO PF system and it would be good if the Sbrick got some competition. I wish you guys all the best.

[Milan]

I wish you guys all the best.

Me, too. Would really want to see this happen. Also, why sending a pm if someone has a question? Answers should be public.

I have already ranted about non-responsive creators of these third party gizmos, so i wont do it here again.

[dr_spock]

I think this could be useful for small LEGO train applications like a small shunter MOC. Cramming in a PF IR receiver or SBrick can be very difficult.

Since it is a bluetooth 2.0 device, it can work with a wider range of phones and tablets that don't have the latest and greatest BLE equiped. Old phones and tablets are cheap meaning you can get one for letting visitors at your LUG event shows operate your MOC or train layout without putting your own phone with your personal info at risk. It doesn't sound like you need to be on the internet to create profiles like SBrick. You probably don't need a data plan on the phone.

It may offer more flexibility to the advanced users than SBrick. But it is not too hard to make your own custom solution these days with off the shelf components for people who are already that advanced.

[syclone]

It looks good the only advantage of this for me are :

6 ports

Easier to use application

But:

Strange size distribution, for it would be better to have a design similar to Lego Ir receiver( higher & shorter)

You need adapters to connect your motors to the device. That is a bad move,the device is pricier than Sbrick and you need to buy adapters.

Just my opinion, now have to decide between easier use and size advantage.

I don't think I need more than 4 ports.

Edited April 7, 2016 by LXF

[Sylca]

Hello everybody,

I've had the luck to be a betatester of BSC.

I've also 8 SBricks (meaning I really believed in it).

My conclusion: BSC is FAR better than SBrick.

If SBrick have good HW part for 4 channels (if we put aside the patent point), it remains that the Android (at least) SW part is awful (at my humble opinion): buggy, crashing, not user friendly (from my point of view), needing a computer, needing internet, needing an account on their website, needing to logon in the app, ...

For me, the main strength of BSC are:

- 6 channels in a small form factor (ok, design could have been closer to the SBrick/IR receiver one, meaning higher/shorter, but this would have been more expensive and leaded to other design pb),

- autonomous app without need of login/internet/pc/profile/3G-4G on your phone/tablet (if you'are not at home with no wifi and want to download a SBrick profile, you need data), you do all on your smartphone/tablet,

- low expectations (Android 4 and BT 2.1) meaning even old devices can use BSC,

- powerfull app with automation, meaning sequences, event handler, virtual devices (allowing to control several outputs as one),

- and the cherry on the cake: it can even control SBrick, so no, you don't have invest for nothing (ok, developper wants to do some more tests but I've tested it and it works with SBrick, despite their use of BT4 BLE which seems to be badly implemented on Android).

I've done many tests with BSC and especialy with the RFID reader and it's working like a charm.

- Wanting a particular train to go always on straight track after a railswitch, whatever its position before the train arrives: no pb, just put a transponder on the train and BSC will put the railswitch straight for this train.

- Wanting the railswitch to be switch each time a train is passing: no pb, put a transponder on trains, and BSC will switch the point every time it sees a train coming.

- Wanting a train to stop at the end of a deadend track: no pb, just put a transponder on the track and the antenna/reader on the train and the BSC will make the train stop.

- Wanting to know when your train is passing on certain points of your circuit: no pb, just put transponders on the track at the places you are interested in and BSC/reader in the train will tell you when passing on a transponder.

- Wanting your vehicule (train, crane, car, whatever) to move, but starting slowly then accelerate a bit, and a bit more, then fullspeed: no pb, just programm the sequence, put a sequence-button on your screen and launch.

- Need to move a high-load but 1 motor is not powerful enough: no pb, then put 2 motors. But now, need to control these motors as if they were one: no pb, create a virtual device, indicate the real chanels on which you have your real motors, then put a control on your screen to control this virtual device. It will duplicate all orders to both channels, moving your 2 motors as one.

You can do many automation very easily.

You can use sensors like reedswitch or contact sensors (0 or 1, just closing contact between 2 pins of the BSC) or use the RFID reader.

You can also do tests on the commands you send. For example, if BSC chanel 1 is activated at the power level 5 (with a control on your screen), then automaticaly power chanel 2 in reverse at full speed.

You can also do tests on the last command sent. For example, if last command was positive (not reversed), making a railswitch goes straight, then current event (like a transponder detection) switches the railswitch the other way.

SBrick can absolutely not allow such powerful uses.

So no, it's not just another SBrick. It's far better (and you can even still use SBrick with this system!).

Sariel did a 11 minutes video describing BSC prototype (the few limitations described have been corrected since):

It's part of a playlist with 2 of my own videos and 2 of Sariel's (who is much better in this exercise than me):

About some questions raised but not answered, sorry for that. I was not aware of this discussion.

As contact for France, I'll try to bring some answers, even if I don't have all details as I'm not developper/creator.

Firstly, some answers are on the KS page: https://www.kickstar...?token=11e55740

Then:

- Mold: for the moment, I had 3D printed case with prototype. As far as I understand, final case will be molded.

- Multiple devices: I've used 2 BSC units + SBricks in 1 scenario (meaning 1 display design in the app). No pb. Update: As for Android limitations we can run 7 units at the same time, but you can have limitless units configured in a screen, just take an unused unit offline and you can get another online!

- Battery box: any PFS Batterybox, but also LiFePo or any 9V battery. You can hack the cable if you want, no pb (just respect polarity). Creator uses Lego battery (Lipo if no mistake) and also a LiFePo for tests: http://www.hobbyking...Warehouse_.html which allows to move a train with 15 large coaches (Santa Fe) and 6 tankwaggons.

- Current: max 3A per channel which is already a good amount of current (note that obviously, BSC won't handle 3A on the 6 chanels at the same time ; nothing in the world of this kind of controler will handle 18A!). As you can see on Philo's motor comparison page (http://www.philohome...s/motorcomp.htm - note that Philo have been betatester also), PFS motors when loaded are not really consuming more than about 0,55A with 9V. It must be totaly stalled to consume up to 3,2A at worth (max for RC 5292, up to 1,8A max with PFS-XL) which even genuine Lego system does not provide. So normal usage will allow 6 PFS motors x 0,5A=3A in the same time without any pb. Obviously, if you use the most power-consuming motor, meaning the black RC motor 5292, you can control only 2 of them at a time at full speed. Note that up to 6A can be delivered in peak (short impulse) for the whole module, which is not so bad, no? Nevertheless, please admit also that we rarely use 6 motors at the same time, and even less probably use 6 motors like XL or 5292 at the same time (and even if this is needed, solution is to use a battery like LiFePo which can deliver much more power). Please also note that BSC have protection (current and thermal), as Lego motors have also. So this is not a point of fear, from my point of view. Most of the time, we use 1 servo or PFS-M for stearing and 1 or 2 PFS-XL for driving (and stearing is not a continuous command, unlike driving). Other functions like hull opening, crane motor for extending boom, stabilizers, winch, etc. are often used when no driving. So I don't think this is a problem, even with standard Lego battery box or battery. Note that SBrick have the same problems also (and say 3A for the whole module). And not speaking about Lego IR Receiver limited to 1 or 2A, depending on the version. So from my point of view once again, BSC is armed enough about power distribution.

- range: I don't have done extensive range tests. I don't know if it can depend on the smartphone/table used (which could have a better antenna/power of emission). It's working from the other side of my flat (82 m²) which is enough for me :-) I tried in a reception hall, and I had problems to see my device before the app disconnects. No pb for me about that, but someone wanting a 100 m range won't find a solution in BlueTooth anyway. Keep in mind that BT have been originaly designed for small distances. Update: up to specifications BT 2.1 is 10m, but creator had already models running more than 20m.

- use of joystick: no. The app in the phone/tablet is the brain. A joystick have no brain, no processor. But if you find a joystick that can control your phone/tablet, then you can use it with the app, as app is on the phone/tablet.

- BLE for apple: no BLE and no version for Iphone/Apple devices. BLE is not nicely implemented in Android (explaining partialy why SBrick app is not so good). I'm sure Apple is able to use BT 2.1 devices. If you are a developper, you can developp your own control app for BSC (creator will give you the communication protocol with the HW, and from there you do what you want).

- disadvantages compared to SBrick: hum... from what I've tested, nothing, except maybe the case (but I don't have the final case in the hands so I cannot really say) and the connectors (but there, nothing to do as PFS is patented, including the communication protocol, so no choice but to use the adapters).

- IOS version: no (see above, feel free to develop!)

- launch date/price: see KS page above :-)

- BSC itself power consumption: between 10 and 60mA depending on state of the Bluetooth module. I don't know for SBrick.

- cable are not so proprietary as creator said on KS page that he will supply plugs/pins so that anybody can do its own cable, to command any low voltage motor. So you will be able to do your own cable. Keep in mind that this system is not just for Lego PFS motors, but also for 9V motors, including monorail, and also FischerTechnik motors and even any low voltage motor. Obviously they have not the same plugs, so BSC must be versatile. That's why cable can't be proprietary. White connector is an industrial standard connector. You just need a crimping tool to built it.

- dimensions in studs: as said, I don't have the last case in my hands (and as I'm moving, I've packed my BSC proto) but it's about 2 studs high, 7 long and 4 large. See the images on the KS page. Can be attached to Lego with at least technic holes/axle. Again, as said, I don't know how final mold will be. See Sariel's video

at 49" to have dimensions of current case - proto 3Dprinted).

Again, have a look on the KS page and on videos. There are 2 videos I did (ok, not so good english and home-made by a beginner in videos) with train and excavator, with complex scenarios (scenario is like profile on SBrick) and complex automation.

This is done very easily directly in the app out of the box. No need to register on a website, create a profile, logon even on your phone remote control application, connect to wifi/3G-4G, download the profile, notice that you would like your slider to be moved a little bit, go back on computer, reload browser, relogon, go back to profile designer, redownload, etc. You do all on your phone/tablet.

I've used the SBrick app/profile designer. Compared to the BSC app, it's day and night.

And we have been forced to wait and wait monthes to have an Android app available, and even thought it was full of bugs, leading me to stop using my Sbricks.

I've rediscovered my SBricks with the BSC app. So simple!

Launch app, design your screen (controls, labels, images, ...), connect and play (and save before quit, but even if you forget, BSC saves last used scenario in case of).

As you see, I'm more than convinced, despite the fact that I was a true defender of SBrick (I bought 8 of them!).

Sariel also see advantages in this system. Philo also. And both did not have the RFID reader at this time.

I had the luck to get one, which adds just another world of possibilities.

They are wellknown names in the AFOL community, having already shown you can trust them.

May I say that I'm a friend of Philo (same Lug), would you trust me when I say you won't regret your purchase?

If not, again and again, see the videos on KS and on BSC youtube chanel: https://www.youtube....y-sXibNn0OTdn-g

These will give you an idea of what you can do with BSC.

It's not just another SBrick. It's more than that, especialy due to the inputs available and even handler.

It's more like a litle mindstorm than another SBrick.

I'm not very active on forums as I don't have time to go read all threads. I'm on a mailing list of my LUG, so information comes to me, and only read a few blogs like Sariel's one. I think that with this reply, I subscribed to this topic, but I'm not sure.

So if you have more questions, then you can send me a private message. I'll post answer on this topic.

I don't promise to have all answers, but I'll do my best.

Regards,

Sylca

P.S. : I don't have any interest in BSC, I bought my prototype because I was so much disappointed about the app of SBrick (to which I had suggested to use the BSC way of development since the begining - superbely ignored... and after months of wait after KS campaign end, we have had a buggy/crashing app, and still not working as simply as it should be, even today) that I was looking for a better solution, and I'm a backer on the current KS campaign.

Edited April 11, 2016 by Sylca

[Jim]

Whenever You have a question, please send me an PN

Andreas

Hello Andreas,

We are always a bit reluctant when it comes to promoting Kickstarter project, but since Sariel has tested it and you are here to answer our question I am inclined to allow this promotion.

On one condition; questions are asked and answered in this topic not via PM. Are you okay with that?

[Sylca]

Hello Andreas,

We are always a bit reluctant when it comes to promoting Kickstarter project, but since Sariel has tested it and you are here to answer our question I am inclined to allow this promotion.

On one condition; questions are asked and answered in this topic not via PM. Are you okay with that?

Hello,

I'm not creator and won't speak on behalf of Andreas, but I'm ok to answer on this topic.

I've no pb neither to receive question via PM, and then post answer on this topic. This way I'm sure not to loose any question :-)

(I've just seen in the options that I can subscribe to this topic)

Best regards,

Sylca

[Jarema]

Is this project is A Live ?!! Where I can buy this device now ?

[Bricksonwheels]

According to Kickstarter it died.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1628872772/bluesmartcontrol-remote-lego-or-fischertechnik-cre?token=11e55740

[Sylca]

Hi,

In fact, the creator canceled his KickStarter campaign in order to get time to improve product and software, even if they were already at a good level.

Project is not dead, just postponed.

Stay tuned!

[Andreasp]

Removed

[Milan]

4 hours ago, Andreasp said:

Jetzt ist es endlich soweit !!!!!!!!BSC – BlueSmartControl – Newsletter

.................

Hello @Andreasp

Great to see some news about BSC, but please keep in mind that posts need to be written in English.

[Jim]

10 minutes ago, Milan said:

Hello @Andreasp

Great to see some news about BSC, but please keep in mind that posts need to be written in English.

Yup. I removed the content.

Nice work! Looking forward to your progress report in English