Kumbbl

do not misunderstand me: you are right but again i would say: nothing really new to the table - overall this is still the same principle - building a gearbox with one-size clutch-gears and combining other gears to get the needed rations - well, the 8448 gearbox is more compact and to reach this for 6 gears you need the driving ring-extension - that's it... but where is the revolution, in contrary: this is far away from being revolutionary... revolutinary was 8880-gearbox and introducing switching gears with clutches and driving rings - this is something really new to the table... but the 8448 stuff is simply a good improvement of already existing design, not less but surely not more... (IMHO) and if i must choose between 8448 and 8880-gearbox-style: i would always choose the 8880 4-speed-gearbox (maybe optimized in compactness), because gear-switching is way way way better and more realistic and 4 speed are enough for a toy - 5+1 speed adds nothing new to the table... agein: IMHO yes, the 8448 looks better (though for my eyes the 8880 looks very good and unique) and more realistic like a real car.. but i disagree for the importance of the visual appearance... if this is important or not is a) a very personal decision and b) depends on the goals of TLG for the technic line and/or supercars: For me the sentence is still true: Form follow functions...

Nice but Nothing really new... Gearbox is simple a better Design, but remember the Way better gear switching mechanism of the 8880 cause of its unique gearstick... And what the hell is remarkable about a reverse gear??? Suspension of 8880 is too stiff right, but the 8448 is too weak.. But anyway: nothing New to the table Modular Build is just another Design principle nothing more... Well, to be honest, a very good design principle... ;-) Summary: i like the 8448 as a set and as a build but it brings nothing really New to the table....

congrats - you need two 8880 because the B-Model is quite a beauty too and a MUST-build ... Here in Germany the 8880 in good condition are generally not so expensive but nevertheless 80€ for two would also hard to beat here in germany - very good deal.

probably you are right - the old 8880 was also a big leap forward at that release-time 1994... with lots of completely new parts and it had success - so why not jumping again - e.g. with a 9990 supercar and bringing the supercar species to modern times... i would vote for it.

i agree a lot... suspension: IMHO it satisfies already a lot of realism in that sense, that one can explain a kid what is the ground principle of a suspension in a car... well, real suspensions consist of two main parts, the spring and the shock absorber, both with different purposes - lego doesn't do this but just uses one sping-element... well not really fully realistic but again: completely sufficient to explain my son how it works - not suffcient to explain a future car mechanic in his schooling how it works - but this should not be the intention of lego - al least not IMHO steering: agreed, steering of 8110 is crap but e.g. steering in 8880 is very well done and shows again all kids the ground principle... you forgot Nat Kuipers... it's concept car is for me one of the best build supercar and cause of its outstanding modularity it demonstrates kids how nowadays cars are manufactured... just see the marriage of chassis, gearbox and motor (this is realism pure), but this only BTW... ;-) - of course the supercars of crownkiller and some others are also great and outstanding i agree to 100% with each letter you wrote ;-) as already written above IMHO all this is not really necessary to reach that grade of realism necessary to educate kids in the ground principles of a car - all this we have already (apart from different sized clutch gears, i admit) - the 8880 is still the best demonstration object - and also a sufficiant demonstration object - to show all this stuff our kids... combined with a modular design like of 8448 or Kuipers concept car and it will be a quite perfect supercar for the main target group of lego... But i agree with you that your proposals sound veryx intersting and could be designed by TLG with not much effort - but nevertheless all this need a lot of special parts which need to be designed, wich need new molds etc. etc... probably the business case fails for this... but companies often design some CNO (cost no object) products just to show what can be possible and to use them for advertising ... but this would not be for the mass merket because it would not add value for the mass - but I'm sure here are enough AFOLs which would pay the high prices for sets like you want... I would no, it is simply bad design - nothing easier than removing the boring chain from the 8880: just bring the rear steering to the other side (from right to left - front looking to the car) and you have enough place to replace the chain with gears - you can then also choose different ratios depending how fast the pistons should fly... I have done this already and it performs very well - details see here: http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=80878&hl=8880 http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=79125

i agree but just show him the transmission of the 8880 and he will understand the basic prinziple - of course, the 8880 isn't really synchronized but just uses the dog-catch mechanism of real gearboxes...but IMHO this doesn't matter.. real synchronization is IMHO not really possible with lego-parts... but the 8880 shows quite good the relations between gearstick, gears, dog-catches and different gear ratios... so for me it perfectly suited to explain a kid the ground principle of a gearbox.. but i agree that different sized clutch gears would make the situation better - but these combined with a 8880-like gearstick would satisfied all my wishes concerning gearbox-realism made by lego...

a MINT (complete, seldom used, very good box and BI) 9398 for 60€... IMHO a bargain...

ah - is this another motor than the buggy motor which is e.g. in 8366 or 8475???

one of my best deals: got today a near mint 8868 Truck for just 27€... including box, instructions and all parts in very well condition... box has neither a scratch nor a dint..BI has not one buckle or fold..simply perfect - awesome, now i have a second one and can built the superb B-model..

How could they have done better the 8265? Simple answer: they have already with the 8459...

the only pro of the 8265 is (IMHO); it looks great (for which we have an own thread)...nothing more - i'm really wondering what were the goals of TLG when designing this set... IMHO it could only be "look as good as possible", because realism lacks (allanp has already mention this) and playability is really lousy - or with other words: if you do not want getting a typewriters cramp you should avoid playing with this loader...and the motorized version looks simply very bad...

have you also build the wonderful convertible?

just one word: incredible... me too (the bold sentence)

simply agree with all these praisings (s.a. and the initial posting of Anio) .. there is not one word which is an overstatement - BUILD this beauty! In addition building this concept car can be a course in state of the art studdless building techniques... My hat too of to you, sir Nathanael.

the whole 8455 is an amazing solution with respect to the limited space available - but you are right: the steering is quite cool and unique...

IMO we have already one: http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=83226&hl=8466

wow, absolute amazing MOC... i will build it for sure - thanks a lot for the high quality BI..! which sets would you name as a good starting point? 8275 + 8043 + 9398 (L-motors)?

originally this topic only wanted to "judge" the beautiness of the look of the models - not the cleverness of their mechanism....

is you count 8458 "Silver Champion" as a studded set then i would vote for its brother 8461 "Williams racer" - its more modern panels give it a cleaner look cmpared to the 8458 - see the picture some posts above... a really beautiful model... (BTW: unfortunatelly the same crap front suspension as 8458)

no, front and rear are not fully identical: rear has longer lever arms... i had the same idea but at the front suspension there is not enough room to apply the longer lever arms

Awesome! Looks as If this gearbox would work very reliable... Indeed very clever and very well done. Are you planning to create BI? Can you estimate which sets would be good starting Points for rebuilding this great MOC?

<Bump> Anybody out there who has an idea how to improve the front suspension of the 8461? because it is too weak IMHO, ie. it comes up very slowly (if that!) - rear suspension works well but front suspension is more or less useless... Any ideas? Thanks a lot!

yes, i can confirm this - strongly recommended to apply this mod! http://www.designer-...difications.htm (scroll down until you find 8466) In addition i recommend to change the shock absorbers because the original ones are to weak for this model and the mounting point (especially for the front suspension)... Hans MOD (s.a.) make them already working slighly better but still too weak. So i have mounted 4 absorbers of the Unimog 8110 (Shock Absorber 9.5L, Complete Assembly (Extra Hard Spring) - you can buy them in Bricklink for reasonable price - with this aborbers and the MOD of Han the 8466 works like a charm...

quite OT: but do you know if there are instructions for this very beautiful Zonda?

the 8466 offroader is really cool (so cool that i have bought two ;-).. but then color-scheme is ... hmm, lets cast a veil over this......or with other words: in blue (e.g.) the 8466 would be listed among my other most beautiful.................................................. ;-)