ummester Posted February 12, 2015 Like any TLG set, this new train interests me from a parts and price point perspective. Does it have a motor? How many wheels, train bases and bogie plates does it have? What colour are the bases and bogie plates(blue, yellow and red ones are much harder to use for MOCs than black or dark grey, I find). Does it represent a better parts per price buy than the blue cargo train or the passenger train? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davidmull Posted February 12, 2015 Like any TLG set, this new train interests me from a parts and price point perspective. Does it have a motor? How many wheels, train bases and bogie plates does it have? What colour are the bases and bogie plates(blue, yellow and red ones are much harder to use for MOCs than black or dark grey, I find). Does it represent a better parts per price buy than the blue cargo train or the passenger train? Of course it has a motor it's a city train. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
legonerd54321 Posted February 12, 2015 Seems like the Heavy Haul Train will be $160.00 USD.Looks like it's more affordable than I thought. http://www.amazon.com/gp/richpub/syltguides/fullview/RXFSIU63PESVG Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jrathfon Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) The fact is, however, that Lego have not designed this set with you in mind; nor me, nor any AFOL. Kids like cranes and diggers and, for those to whom this is presumably intended to appeal, this is the first time a set just like this has been available in their lifetime, or at least in their Lego-consuming lifecycle. I'm not trying to pretend that the set is hugely innovative, just that I can really see why they would want to put out this kind of set. The fact is you are missing my point. I originally commented on a post that said Lego was unoriginal, but said there were new ideas to the set. The new ideas part wasn't true as I provided examples of cranes and a front-end loader/digger (I conceded that a helicopter ON a train is a new idea, yes). I never made any statement that this set is "New" to new/young people or that TLG caters to my wants or needs (or to any AFOL's needs). I was simply stating that these ideas are not new. I then further stated that this makes a number of AFOL's disappointed in this set (as shown in this thread). I never made any qualifications that TLG either listens to us or cares about AFOL's, that's an entirely different discussion. I will restate that the set is un-original (citing sets 4543, 4565, and 7939), that is my opinion and I am not missing a point. Yes it's new to new people (yup...) and yes the target audience is not AFOL's, still doesn't mean its not uninspired, unoriginal, disappointing and dull in my opinion. So no reason to contradict me, I think it's disappointing. Edited February 13, 2015 by jrathfon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wabbajack Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) https://www.flickr.c...in/photostream/ Notice the train logo? Such a tease... Could that be the new creator train? Also it seems like I will be getting another container car for my Maersk :D https://www.flickr.c...in/photostream/ Edited February 13, 2015 by Wabbajack Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
*thomas* Posted February 13, 2015 If the cargo train comes with the blue crane and remains a sub 100 euro set, I will buy... For the parts. The more I look at it, the more is dislike it. To me, this train is proof of a lack of inspiration and, tbh, bad and lazy design. The flatbeds aren't much more than a train base plate + standard axle and boogie and no more than 10 bricks attached on top. The freight it is carrying is even less overwhelming, ok, de rail digger makes sense, but a helicopter? I know some trains transport them, hence, airplanes, tanks and other rare loads are transported by rail, but it makes no sense adding this to a train set. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Srbandrews Posted February 13, 2015 Notice the train logo? Such a tease... I've scoured this inage for ages and no. No, I don't notice any train logo! Where is it? It's driving me crazy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dr_spock Posted February 13, 2015 There appears to be a train logo on the white sign at the station platform. It is to the right of the tall dark orange and dark bley building. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skystorm87 Posted February 13, 2015 Quite disappointing. Well, at least we know that in two or three year there will be a similar set with a Blue engine... And also, what is this invasion of helicopter in city sets? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Duq Posted February 13, 2015 If the cargo train comes with the blue crane and remains a sub 100 euro set, I will buy... For the parts. And the chance of that happening is? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cwetqo Posted February 13, 2015 I can not imagine this being under 150 euro. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nesquik Posted February 13, 2015 I've scoured this inage for ages and no. No, I don't notice any train logo! Where is it? It's driving me crazy. Look at the train on the overhead railway on the left side of the image. The logo is on the front side of the drivers cabin, facing the camera. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
M_slug357 Posted February 13, 2015 I think this is a clear indicator that us AFOL's really need to rally behind some of the more well thought out train designs on Lego IDEAS, because TLG is desperately trying to tell us that they, in fact, have no ideas with which to capitalize upon. Or at the very least, they are sitting sadly on some good ones that they mightn't fully know the value of... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andythenorth Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) I think this is a clear indicator that us AFOL's really need to rally behind some of the more well thought out train designs on Lego IDEAS Ha ha. Good luck. The chances of foamer sets making it through the Ideas process is effectively zero. The only sets making it through are mass-appeal. Foamer interests are not of interest to most people. Lego foamers represent a tiny niche, probably a few thousand people worldwide. Most foamers (in my experience) find Lego trains either unappealing, or just hopelessly, pointlessly unrealistic. I have spent a lot of time around foamers, but hey, maybe your experience is different. Good luck though. Edited February 13, 2015 by andythenorth Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steinkopf Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) I am not overly impressed with this latest train set and I am rather glad that I build a large range of MOC's than rely on sets to be build up my collection of rolling stock. The lack of apparent variety of wagons is a real downer with this set, especially when it contains two flatwagons which happen to be rather lazy builds that require minimal parts, instead of wasting parts on a helicopter how about making a better wagon with functions such as sliding roof or hatches to load cargo. The only semi decent wagon in the set is the hopper but even then I don't particularly like the discharge chute on the side, also I think the designers are a bit optimistic with the 70T on the side which would mean a 35 Ton axle loading for this wagon. The design is loosely based on the UIC FCS wagons which have a tare of around 13.5T and a maximum load of around 27T giving a gross weight of 40T and an axle loading of 20T which is more common in Europe. The locomotive also has a lot to be desired it does not know whether it's supposed to be a dog bone design like a Vossloh G2000 or if it is supposed to be a full carbody design like a Siemens ER20, the area between the carbody and the handrails is way too tight and should have had a full studs clearance. There also seems to be very little in imagination design wise as there is hardly any difference between this locomotive and the one in 7939, with the exception that the later was an electric that had pantographs on the roof as the only real distinguishing feature between the two designs. I apologise to anyone that sees this as being overly critical of the new set but I think at times the designers need a bit of constructive criticism from the community, anyway lets be happy that at the end of the day LEGO is the most versatile construction medium available on the market, if your not happy with the design you can just pull it apart and build something that you want. Edited February 13, 2015 by Steinkopf Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Duq Posted February 13, 2015 The locomotive also has a lot to be desired it does not know whether it's supposed to be a dog bone design like a Vossloh G2000 or if it is supposed to be a full carbody design like a Siemens ER20, the area between the carbody and the handrails is way too tight and should have had a full studs clearance. There also seems to be very little in imagination design wise as there is hardly any difference between this locomotive and the one in 7939, with the exception that the later was an electric that had pantographs on the roof as the only real distinguishing feature between the two designs. I apologise to anyone that sees this as being overly critical of the new set but Ibthink at times the designers need a bit of constructive criticism from the community, anyway lets be happy that at the end of the day LEGO is the most versatile construction medium available on the market, if your not happy with the design you can just pull it apart and build something that you want. That's exactly what I though when I saw the photos. In not knowing which type of engine to go for they've ended up with something that's neither. I also prefer to build my own rather than rely on sets but to keep building our own we need Lego to keep producing train sets that people want to buy. We're not the target audience for these sets but I agree they can do better than this. I think this is a clear indicator that us AFOL's really need to rally behind some of the more well thought out train designs on Lego IDEAS, because TLG is desperately trying to tell us that they, in fact, have no ideas with which to capitalize upon. I'm pretty sure Lego is not actually trying to tell us that but we do need to start supporting trains on Ideas. Unfortunately we seem to be too small a niche to even get sufficient votes there. Last week I did this overview of a very subjectively picked bunch of projects on Ideas to show just how little support they are getting. It's started an interesting discussion over on Flickr: The cold hard truth about Lego trains by Duq, on Flickr Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sven F Posted February 13, 2015 I don't know if I was really "special" like my mommy said, but as a kid of about 10, I hated helicopters, boats, planes and all that useless stuff they put into every other city set. I bought them anyway because they always came with something else I wanted so i ended up with a city that had too many crossroads, 50% of the population owned either a boat or a helicopter and every 3rd guy on the street was a policeman. They were all homeless because there were no residential buildings. And I wasn't an AFOL then, I was just the target audience for city, and it DID bother me then, still does today. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ummester Posted February 13, 2015 Duq - If it was a Back to the Future train, it would get 10,000 votes :D Ideas is about popular culture (and a little bit of nostalgia) more than it is about great builds or ideas. I don't think it's the way TLG intended it - but it's how voter's vote. There are some fantastic builds and designs on ideas that cover more than trains. Awesome city vehicles, planes, tile packs, animal packs - you name it - but if they don't have that cool, in or popular factor, they won't make it. It's not just trains. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
legonerd54321 Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) I did the math, and the Heavy Haul Train will cost 140.49 euro for you guys. Edited February 13, 2015 by legonerd54321 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nesquik Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) Honestly, I don't understand the frustration. These are City products afterall. It's important to keep in mind the 'generation cycle', and just how well TLG have perfected it. Yes, we are seeing many of the same designs and principles being recycled, and that is a blow when you're expecting something original, but it's a business model that works and has contributed to substantial growth. Every single year new families are buying their first LEGO products, and they're going to want the same things that a family two or three years ago wanted. Sub themes will always come and go, but the drama and action that City offers is important to the company. In particular, the designers who are tasked with fire or police sets will pay closer attention to maintaining a set profit margin whilst updating the design very loosely. Trains are no different. Put yourself into the shoes of a 5/6 year old, and it's not difficult to feel the excitement of these sets - the design of the 'Heavy Haul Train' loco is perfect for playing with, which is why it's very similar to previous iteration. Am I personally disappointed it's the same? Yes, but I'm a grown up and therefore not the target audience, so it doesn't matter. Any concern should be directed towards the older builder's/mature market, as this has yet to have been updated since the HE's exit. I've been told a new product could arrive Q3, but this was sketchy at best. The point being, let's just try to be more positive. TLG understands just how passionate this fan-base is, but it all comes down to timing. And where profits are concerned, City is the priority as the trains are consistent sellers throughout the holidays, whereas Exclusive trains tend to be more niché due to not being complete railways. Edited February 13, 2015 by nesquik Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
antp Posted February 13, 2015 People complain about sets that come back every few years. But people also complain about sets that do not come back, and then reach high prices on BL :D Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eliminator Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) I'm disappointed with this set, particularly with the engine rehash from 7939. I can see the appeal that this set will have with the under-10 year olds, but as an AFOL I will pass on it unless it goes on sale 20% off or more. I look forward to the actual release to do some analysis of the train-specific parts per dollar breakout. It might be a decent parts source set for MOCs.. Edited February 13, 2015 by eliminator Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jrathfon Posted February 13, 2015 Duq - If it was a Back to the Future train, it would get 10,000 votes :D Ideas is about popular culture (and a little bit of nostalgia) more than it is about great builds or ideas. I don't think it's the way TLG intended it - but it's how voter's vote. There are some fantastic builds and designs on ideas that cover more than trains. Awesome city vehicles, planes, tile packs, animal packs - you name it - but if they don't have that cool, in or popular factor, they won't make it. It's not just trains. This is an extremely good point. A number of sets that make it to 10,000 and most of the sets that have actually made it to production are broad appeal. As Duq said, TLG may not have intended it to be this way. Ideas like the space sets and movie sets (ghostbusters, BTF, Wally) were voted on by a large base of people who aren't actually interested in Lego originally, or have that nostalgia from childhood, but aren't active Lego users now. This is more obvious in sets like the AdaFruit maker space set or even the SWE (Society of Women in Engineering/Science) themed sets of the Research Institute. I have seen Lego Ideas links all over the interwebs in places like Reddit and FB, drawing a lot of other type of AFO geeky stuff over to Ideas, cause a lego DeLorean is cool! I myself have that appeal, I am extremely into trains, but got the DeLorean, Mars Rover, and Ecto-1 because geeky stuff is even cooler (and geekier) in Lego! To sum it up, Ideas get a lot of non Lego fanboy exposure and this is a big reason votes can climb much faster on these sets versus trains. This is not discounting that these sets also have mass appeal inside the Lego fan scope. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toxicbananna Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) did I see a green cargo train?? Edited February 13, 2015 by toxicbananna Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nesquik Posted February 13, 2015 did I see a green cargo train?? <img src="https://flic.kr/p/qTg2xu"> It's a palette-swapped version of the Maersk train; zoom in and you can see the number 10219 on the side. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
