LEGO LotR - general discussion

[Deathleech]

All the more reason to go the CMF + D2C route a la The Simpsons. Something affordable for the younger new fans with something collectible for the devout AFOLs.

Honestly, Lego should have done this from the start. It would have been a much better sales model to follow than the one they went with. The only problem would have been figuring out how to release some of the molded creatures.

Wave one could have the Fellowship members plus some other supporting good guys and main bad guys. I'm thinking as well as the nine Fellowship members it could have an Elven Soldier, a Rohan Soldier, Eomer, and Eowyn, . If a wave has 16 characters that would leave three spots left for bad guys. Fill it with a Uruk-hai Orc, Saruman, and the Witch King (with black hood AND crown). The big set could have been Helm's Deep plus 2 wall sets with it for $200 and include a few Uruk-hai, a berserker, Lurtz, Theoden, some Rohan and elven soldiers, and more. Wave two could have been Sauron, an Easterling, A Mordor Orc, a Moria Orc, Golem, a Gondor Soldier, Faramir, Elrond, Ranger of Ithilien, Haradrim, Arwen, Haldir, the Mouth of Sauron, King of the Undead, Undead Soldier, and Gothmog. The big set there could be Minas Tirith for $250 which would have some Gondor soldiers, Mordor Orcs, Denethor, and more.

This way collector's and children alike could get pretty much all the important characters and then some that we got in the fest two wave, but we wouldn't have all the lackluster sets with them. We would get all the main characters we are missing too like Sauron, the Witch King, and Eowyn. People who want to army build would be free to do so while kids could pick up the entire Fellowship for relatively cheap.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Deathleech

[Risgrynsgrot]

Still, it's not possible since just like Star Wars CMFs LEGO doesn't own the rights to produce LOTR action figures.

[Seaber]

Firstly, the film rights are only for The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings, including the appendices of that book. The rights to The Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, Children of Hurin, the History of Middle Earth/The Hobbit volumes are all in the hands of Tolkien's family. Christopher Tolkien is unwilling to sell them, we'll see what future generations think. Even if they were sold in the future, there is no knowing who they would be sold to.

Secondly, if The Silmarillion or Children of Hurin were ever made into a film or TV series, they'd be very different from The Hobbit or LOTR. There would be no friendly and familiar faces (Bilbo, Gandalf and Elrond in TH/LOTR books, Legolas, Galadriel, Saruman, Frodo added in the films) to connect them. They are far less suited to the kind of film TH and LOTR were, and are unlikely to be the sort of thing children would want toys of or be interested in seeing.

WB has the rights to bring out as many Middle Earth films as they want, as long as they don't infringe on copyright, and considering how much money these films have made, I think it's unlikely they'll never bring out another one. However, they're more than likely to be heavily original stories. Would Lego bother making sets for a new Middle Earth film, considering sales of TH/LOTR? Who knows

[HawkLord]

Still, it's not possible since just like Star Wars CMFs LEGO doesn't own the rights to produce LOTR action figures.

Technically, it's unknown who has the rights to LOTR/Hobbit action figures, as Bridge Direct indicated that their license expired. Also explains why BD didn't finish any of the series.

Harry Potter is getting a Lego revival because of the Fantastic Beasts movie trilogy. Otherwise, there would be no reason for Lego to chance another run at it. Meanwhile, LOTR has nothing new going for it, which is why Lego will not consider it.

[MAB]

Are you just not a fan? You sound like you don't want them to release new sets.

No, I'm a fan of it. It is what started me buying lego sets again. I was into MOCs for the previous 10 years, including LOTR stuff, but rarely bought sets as they didn't give me what I wanted.

I just don't see any new sets selling well. To do genuinely new sets and minifigures and make them appealing to all (not just older collectors), they'd have to rehash old settings and definitely all the old minifigures to sell to new collectors, which is fine if there is enough of a new fan base to buy them and seems to work with SW (eg. landspeeders and X-wings, although it still gets complaints about rehashes). But I don't believe that there is enough of a new fan base that wouldn't have the old stuff, not after 3-4 years. Maybe after 10 years there would be enough people that want it and didn't get it first time around. But also it wouldn't surprise me that if they did it again, we'd still miss out on Eowyn and Faramir and Witch King, but get loads of Gimli and Legolas, Frodo and Gandalf.

We can all say give us a Gondor soldier army builder pack, give us Witch King vs Eowyn, give us a Balrog. They'd sell well to people that already have the original sets. But if sales were relatively poor first time around (compared to SH and SW), they are likely to be worse this time. Not only don't they appeal to kids (or their parents buying for kids), but they don't fit with anything else that is currently for sale. Obscure characters from an old franchise. To fit with anything else they have to re-release the Fellowship, Saruman, Elrond, orcs, ... Sales for those will be poor, as many people that are interested in the theme will already have them, so the sales for the whole line (which would probably be four rehashes plus one novel set with new minifigures) would look terrible, so further stuff wouldn't get released.

Much as I'd prefer to see LOTR or even a non-licensed "grey" castle line over Nexo Knights, for example, it is clear which is going to sell better. And when lego are at production capacity, they are going to go with the line that they are going to be able to sell. It wouldn't surprise me if they continue to do one and done type licensed themes. Get in, sell to the fans, and leave it and move onto something else new to sell to the next set of fans. That seems to be the way with Scooby Doo, Lone Ranger, probably Jurassic World. Toy Story, Prince of Persia. It is a different game to when Indiana Jones and Harry Potter was around. SW (and probably SH) are evergreen licenses, others will get about a year and done. They seem to be going for breadth rather than depth, as presumably this gets the sales.

[azog]

I hate to be that guy because even by my name I love lotr and th but IT'S DONE! Lotr has been done and sadly they will never do it again unless somehow Peter Jackson decides to do the simerilian. But even if Jackson does that what type of kid would want those sets? Remember Lego is a toy attracted to kids and there sets need play features and the main cast, yeah we never got a witch king or balrog but what kid wants a balrog? Kids want a Smaug and wargs, with some rohan because in the whole lotr's geology they were the good guys, gondor was a week nation where they had to have rohan and Gandalf to protect them! Lego focuses on the main hero's, rohan did so much along with the fellowship! Look at the pirate them, the pirates were some what the good guys in the 2015 line, we got a bad blue coat fort and no ship! They cater to the hero's and sadly gondor was no hero they were just there

[sahidko]

...yeah we never got a witch king or balrog but what kid wants a balrog? Kids want a Smaug and wargs, with some rohan because in the whole lotr's geology they were the good guys, gondor was a week nation where they had to have rohan and Gandalf to protect them!...

The same kids that would care about whether Gondor was a weak nation or not. :D

[Lindulan]

Still, it's not possible since just like Star Wars CMFs LEGO doesn't own the rights to produce LOTR action figures.

I've seen this referenced a few times here...where did this info come from? Why would minifigures be precluded by the action figure license, but the SW constraction figures be allowed? Does the action figure license refer to a maximum size, but not a minimum? Or a minimum number of components?

[HawkLord]

It's general knowledge from those in the action figure, toy, collectible hobby. Companies have various types of licenses to make types of products in certain regions. For example, Hasbro has rights to make Star Wars action figures in the North American and European markets. This does not prevent other companies from making Star Wars action figures in other markets, like say Asia (in fact there are a couple making such figures now). The action figure license that Hasbro holds prevents anything similar to a Star Wars action figure from being distributed in their market. That's also why Funko must make their Pop Vinyl figures for Star Wars and Marvel in bobble-head form, because Hasbro's license prevents them from making anything that could be considered an action figure in design or execution.

Back in 2009, Lego made Star Wars magnet sets that contained a minifigure and base that could be attached to a refrigerator or the like. The minifigure was removeable, so it was a great way to collect Star Wars minifigures. Hasbro supposedly threatened to sue because selling minifigures basically on their own like that infringed on the action figure license. Constraction figures get away with this because they have buildable parts. Likewise Star Wars battle packs get away with this because they also have buildable parts.

Now, other companies don't have the same type of license as Hasbro. For example, Mattel makes DC action figures. Funko also makes DC Pop Vinyl figures, but they do not need to be in bobble-head form. Likewise, NECA also made some DC action figures in the past couple years and they would certainly be a direct competition with Mattel.

[Lindulan]

Interesting...I don't suppose there's an argument that minifigures are also "buildable" since they are made up of at least 4 separate parts, or otherwise the attorneys would have been all over that...

[Alcarin]

I hate to be that guy because even by my name I love lotr and th but IT'S DONE! Lotr has been done and sadly they will never do it again unless somehow Peter Jackson decides to do the simerilian. But even if Jackson does that what type of kid would want those sets? Remember Lego is a toy attracted to kids and there sets need play features and the main cast, yeah we never got a witch king or balrog but what kid wants a balrog? Kids want a Smaug and wargs, with some rohan because in the whole lotr's geology they were the good guys, gondor was a week nation where they had to have rohan and Gandalf to protect them! Lego focuses on the main hero's, rohan did so much along with the fellowship! Look at the pirate them, the pirates were some what the good guys in the 2015 line, we got a bad blue coat fort and no ship! They cater to the hero's and sadly gondor was no hero they were just there

I LOLed... heavily.

[Lord_Tyrannus]

Gondor was not as strong as it used do be, but still was one of the strongest human forces.. If it fell, Rohan would follow a little after, and Dale and Laketown wouldn't have a chance... Actually, in the time of the battle of the ring Dale and Laketown were fighting the Easterlings (and losing).. I never understood why Dol Amroth was completely forgotten in the movies..

[Oppl]

I think the issue of time, pacing, keeping the audience's interest, not having to introduce *yet another* faction or off-root of one came into play. Although the movie trilogy works very well as three films, and I think Jackson and his team did the best job they could of adapting the material into film, I still think that a two-part third movie (the way Harry Potter and other franchises like to do with the finale) could have worked too. Would have allowed all the extra things from the last book to be explored in full. As much as fans of the books would appreciate and recognise all the extra factions, characters and conflicts from the third book, your average audience goer only has so much patience. After the rollercoaster ride of the movie which was centred on Frodo's quest to destroy the Ring - which he of course does - to then return home and fight a battle in the Shire? Bit too much to cram into a 3 hour movie. And that's just one of the omissions.

Edited March 17, 2016 by Oppl

[Alcarin]

Gondor was not as strong as it used do be, but still was one of the strongest human forces.. If it fell, Rohan would follow a little after, and Dale and Laketown wouldn't have a chance... Actually, in the time of the battle of the ring Dale and Laketown were fighting the Easterlings (and losing).. I never understood why Dol Amroth was completely forgotten in the movies..

No, it was the STRONGEST opponent of Sauron really. It is even explained in the book that the assault on the mightiest enemy of Sauron was not led by an ordinary commander but by the Witch King himself....

It clearly states that Sauron feared and hated Gondorians the most and considered them the strongest enemy he had to face. And i agree about Dol Amroth, actually I missed the whole army assembing and arriving to Minas Tirith as described through Pippin.... It would demonstrate alot more about Gondor pride and the disappointment of so few that arrived to protect it, due to the coastal threat, otherwise Minas Tirith would be packed with countless defenders.

[MAB]

.... mightiest enemy of Sauron was not led by an ordinary commander but by the Witch King himself....

Sauron and the Witch King? These are clearly minor characters, as they didn't appear in the lego sets.

:-)

Edited March 17, 2016 by MAB

[x105Black]

Sauron and the Witch King? These are clearly minor characters, as they didn't appear in the lego sets.

:-)

One could easily get that mistaken impression.

[azog]

Another reason Lego might have not made gondor soldiers is because they are really...boring. You can basically take the pieces Lego already made and make one. So for Lego and money's sake I think it wasn't the worse thing

[General Magma]

Another reason Lego might have not made gondor soldiers is because they are really...boring. You can basically take the pieces Lego already made and make one. So for Lego and money's sake I think it wasn't the worse thing

I've never seen a rounded square shield with a Gondorian tree symbol, a torso depicting armour with a tree emblem along with fitting legs and an elegant "curvy bullet" helmet as LEGO pieces before...

Also, if boring had been an actual question, they wouldn't have given us the same Mordor orc in every single set when in the movies, orcs never looked the same.

But of course, they did have variation with alternate prints for the ghost soldiers of Dunharrow, a very minor faction in the movies... but, as for orcs?

"Ahh, let's give them all the same face. We'll make an awesome Mouth of Sauron figure, and then in the same set we'll put the same old Isengard worker orcs that have next to nothing to do with Morannon orcs!

It's so evil, even the undead of Dunharrow fear such a fate! So we will spare them..."

Edited March 17, 2016 by General Magma

[Deathleech]

Also, if boring had been an actual question, they wouldn't have given us the same Mordor orc in every single set when in the movies, orcs never looked the same.

But of course, they did have variation with alternate prints for the ghost soldiers of Dunharrow, a very minor faction in the movies... but, as for orcs?

This is something that still bugs me to this day. Lego should have just made two identical Undead Soldiers and did a different print for the King. That way they could have had one additional print available to change the Mordor Orcs around. Instead we get nearly the same Orc in 7 different sets. The Goblin King Battle set did the same thing. They gave us three different goblins in that set yet they are never used again.

[Alcarin]

Another reason Lego might have not made gondor soldiers is because they are really...boring. You can basically take the pieces Lego already made and make one. So for Lego and money's sake I think it wasn't the worse thing

I challenge you to build a faithful Gondor soldier, or if you think thats so easy, make me a Tower Guard :) only LEGO official parts, and it has to have all important emblems and uniquie stuff that GOndor equipment carried.

[HawkLord]

New Lava Monster battlepack in the Nexo Knight line might be useful material for Uruk-Hai. It's kind of stretch, I know, but it's something.

[Forresto]

There's a lava monster battle pack?

Lord of the Rings battle packs, I'm almost drooling at the idea.

[HawkLord]

Yes, in the NK news section. It isn't out yet, though.

[Mr. Cube]

And this is perfect for Morannon Orcs:

[General Magma]

Those are good for Morannon orcs, indeed! Only thing to do there is swap the normal red arms for dark red ones.