LEGO Castle 2013

[jFox]

The good guys confuse me a bit here. On the one hand there's the lion emblem everywhere which is the same as, or at least very similar to, the lion emblem from older castle sets. Personally I never cared for that design. But then, I see crownie emblems everywhere: printed on the minifig torsos, on a few banners, etc. But the blue on the figures' arms (and on the castle) looks lighter than the dark blue of the crownies from the Fantasy Era, so now I'm confused again. Like mixing two groups and the end result is not more than the sum of the parts.

The bad guys look... okay, I guess. Not super impressed overall, though I will say I really like the knight and his black/red horse. Looks like it would go very well with the Evil Knight CMF figure.

[dgherko]

I call it the Lion head to draw a difference from the Lion creature from the 1980s which is still one of the best crests. The Lion head or lion head is more childish, but happy to have the castle line at all. The alternative Lord of the Rings/Hobbit are amazing models but can't Army build with them because they are charactor based and the licenced sets are more expensive.

The crown crest is similar to the series a few years ago, but not exactly the same.

Dragon symbol is the fifth dragon (the original and still the best small blue dragon, the second is a larger version on the first oval shield, the third was green, the fouth was the kingdoms green dragon now we have the red dragon.

Lego needs to retire the dragon and lion head...we have had:

Dragon, boar, lion, lion head, falcon, bat, snake, skull, troll, crowns, bear, monkey, blue falcon, wolf twice purple and brown, scorpion, crossed battle axe, dwarf wings, stag, unicorn (armored horse), bull, tree, some decorated with no creature, even the muskateer had a crest on the tunic.

and the classic yellow castle designs (bring back please)

I think we could have:

Griffon

Eagle

Owl

The sun

the moon

a horse

clover

diamond

spade

star

and maybe some classic cheverons, stripes, crosses,

[Str0ngbad]

The licensed sets aren't more expensive. Anyway, I missed out on Castle as a kid and having only recently come out of my dark ages I don't have the precedents of previous years to compare it too but I'm really not very impressed. tI expect to buy the dragon set but I will probably leave everything else to the young 'uns whom this theme is clearly being aimed at. It's just too bad there's no LOTR castle this year.

[dgherko]

Been collecting since 1990, have most of them. photo link below

Doing the comparison, the LoTR and Hobbit sets are more ornate and I think it drives to cost up just a bit. Helm's deep is 130, most of the castles of the last ten years have been kept below or at 100.

The small castle set is 12 or 13 bucks for four soldiers and a dog - great army builder

the small sets for LoTR and Hobbit

Gandolf arives 12 bucks

The Riddle 10 bucks

Wizard battle 12 bucks

and limited release ploy bags 4 to 5 bucks:

Urk hai warrior

Frodo

Mirkwood Elf Guard

Gandolf

I am not complaining, my Helms Deep arrived this week, it is an amazing set, combined it with four Urk Hai army sets I have 25 or 30 Urk Hai with trolls, orcs, cyclops, wargs and mineataurs moving to attack.

The same $250 would buy the castle line castle, dragon keep, gatehouse, wagon and 5 ambush sets that's 20 goodguys and 18 bad guys with a damsel, three horses, five dogs

[Str0ngbad]

I understand what you mean now. The price per piece is still in the same range between licensed and non-licensed sets but LOTR did have more large sets last year than this year's Castle theme and the lack of a battle-pack type set at a lower price point is admittedly a serious drawback. There seem to be a lot of people who are convinced that licensed sets cost more simply because they are licensed and I assumed incorrectly that's what you meant.

[Rogue Angel]

With all of the unique torsos and hair molds (Hobbit) that have been coming out in the LotR line, each figure is worth at least 2 of any standard castle fig IMO. Also, I don't know which pieces will be coming with the new castle sets, but some of the LotR sets have had a pretty great piece selection as well (Unexpected Gathering, Warg Attack, Helm's Deep) so I would say that LotR sets are a better value than the new castle line for me. Admittedly, I already have an enormous Lego collection, so I get much more excited about new pieces, then say light bley bricks or plates. I can see the castle sets being more valuable if you have a smaller collection and need more of the core pieces.

[dgherko]

The only problem with the unique torsos are you actually can have too many Legolas and Gimlis. You can never have too many blue soldier number two from the ambush set

[Gatekeeper]

The only problem with the unique torsos are you actually can have too many Legolas and Gimlis. You can never have too many blue soldier number two from the ambush set

I don't completely agree with this. The joy of Lego is that you can take those unique torsos and change the arms etc. to make any soldier. I have a number of Gimlis, and other unique dwarves that have integrated tightly into my Dwarven army just by changing things a bit. The only issues I have are the specialized headgead, like the "big stomach" beard. That's hard to use for more things than what it was intended for.

[Rogue Angel]

Indeed. I have little use for additional Bombur figs, but the other dwarves in UG are great! I've been using Dwarf torsos to outfit different Elven factions, Fili and Kili's hairpieces work great for Northmen/Savages, the fur traders cap, the gray samurai hairpiece, multiple beard/hair pieces...so much potential!

[Good Cragger Fan]

The only problem with the unique torsos are you actually can have too many Legolas and Gimlis. You can never have too many blue soldier number two from the ambush set

I don't completely agree with this. The joy of Lego is that you can take those unique torsos and change the arms etc. to make any soldier. I have a number of Gimlis, and other unique dwarves that have integrated tightly into my Dwarven army just by changing things a bit. The only issues I have are the specialized headgead, like the "big stomach" beard. That's hard to use for more things than what it was intended for.

I could not agree more with "dgherko", since you cannot customise named licensed minifiures that have flesh printed on their torsos, and most of the named licensed minifigures do not have the proper torso and/or leg prints for medieval knights and/or foot soldiers.

Edited April 9, 2013 by Good Cragger Fan

[Str0ngbad]

Since I prefer flesh figures that doesn't bother me but only Kili, the four hobbits in the Fellowship and Theoden have flesh on their torsos anyway. I guess it really comes down to quantity as opposed to quality for classic castle fans. I personally could use four or five of many of the dwarves and more of the elves but the only thing that is easy to get multiples of without going to Bricklink/ebay so far is uruks (and Gandalf ) so I understand why some people are so excited about or disappointed in these new sets. It just makes me happy to know that it should be easy to trade my figures off when I get the Dragon Mountain set.

[BrickG]

Castle used to be my number one Lego theme. I'd get almost nothing but Castle. However... I haven't liked the direction it's been going since after Fantasy.

Fantasy I liked. Had those troll d00ds and stuff. The colors were great, the theme was great. All was great.

Since then it's like they've turned it more and more kiddie. The colors have been getting worse, more bright and ridiculous. No more Dwarves or anything cool (though LotRs being out probably won't let them do much there). Basically, Castle currently sucks. No awesome things like Forestmen. Crap colors. Crap all around. Yes opinion. I don't care.

It went from #1 to not even buying a single set. This next wave won't change that. The LotRs and Hobbit sets are superior in every way, might as well get them.

[Lyichir]

Castle used to be my number one Lego theme. I'd get almost nothing but Castle. However... I haven't liked the direction it's been going since after Fantasy.

Fantasy I liked. Had those troll d00ds and stuff. The colors were great, the theme was great. All was great.

Since then it's like they've turned it more and more kiddie. The colors have been getting worse, more bright and ridiculous. No more Dwarves or anything cool (though LotRs being out probably won't let them do much there). Basically, Castle currently sucks. No awesome things like Forestmen. Crap colors. Crap all around. Yes opinion. I don't care.

It went from #1 to not even buying a single set. This next wave won't change that. The LotRs and Hobbit sets are superior in every way, might as well get them.

I think you're being not just very opinionated, but very picky. Fantasy Castle was excellent. But Kingdoms was also neat. They were different, sure, but Lego has to reimagine their themes every so often to have something "new" to market to a new audience. Fantasy Castle was very diverse due to its high-fantasy premise, and Kingdoms did an about-face and provided fans with a very "realistic" Castle theme, with both more realistic military fortifications as well as an emphasis on pastoral life which no other castle theme has matched. Then came Lord of the Rings, which had a more grim aesthetic by virtue of its source material, and now a new Castle theme is showing up, seemingly deliberately designed to contrast with that aesthetic and appeal to the younger builders who might prefer simpler builds and brighter colors. It's not entirely unlike the cycles art goes through, with new art movements arising largely out of a rejection of the current "mainstream" art, until they themselves become mainstream and another art movement arises to challenge them.

Obviously I'm not saying you ought to like every single change Lego makes to its Castle themes. But there are reasons for those changes. I remember AFOLs in the era of fantasy castle who felt that theme was "kiddified" and desired a return to a Castle theme with realistic architecture and human enemy factions instead of rickety-looking towers and undead skeletons or trolls. And you know what they did? They waited for that to cycle around again, and it did. Your solution to your problem (buying Lord of the Rings sets) seems to be the perfect solution; the Lord of the Rings theme seems to be more up your alley than the current Castle theme, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Lego is giving you options! If you like the darker, high-fantasy type of theme, Lord of the Rings is the theme for you. If you like a more innocent sort of fantasy, Lego is releasing a new Castle theme to appeal to those sensibilities. And if you really despise the "kiddie" appeal of the new theme, but don't like licensed themes for whatever reason, perhaps the next Castle theme after this one will be closer to what you're looking for.

[dgherko]

The LoTR and Hobbit lines are beautiful sets. And having no ability to redesign structures like many of you talented AFOLers, I don't mind keeping all the sets as originally built. My now teenage boys, who are deep into video games can still stop their LoTR total war campagins or anime watching and spend a few minutes around Lego Helm's Deep. I just have had to augment both sides to have a proper depiction of the climatic battle.

King T, Aragorn, Boromir, Gimli, Legolas, Haldir, four Eomer, four Rohan soldiers, five Mirkwood Elf archers and 20 shakespeare actors with silver helmets as peasant soldiers

vs.

28 Uruk-Hai, seven moria orcs, two golums, one cyclops, one Cave troll, 10 large trolls (kingdoms sets) 125 regular size trolls (kingdoms sets) 44 Minotaurs will be adding more based on my brother's luck at Five Belows in Maryland

So I am not complaining too much, it will just be much easier and cheaper to army built factions with the new castle line. I don't have the Goblin King set yet still have to pay for two AP( English and Biology) tests this month.

I really really like castle, don't stop making them, I even have 214 of the easter egg colored knights

[gedren_y]

As an AFOL who actually does custom builds, I like this theme for its part selection, including the new 4x4 facet brick. I am also very fond of the Royal Knights emblem, and this angular redesign with blue instead of red suits me just fine. I also have plenty of Crownies that would fill out the ranks. Yes, this new Dragon faction could be better, but considering the variety of shoulder/upper torso armor available now, I am confident I can do something with them.

[Flieger]

Very good points, Lyichir! I wonder if the experiment to recreate the rural life of the ‘small folk’ paid off. I guess not, otherwise we may see it again now.

I just would like to add something with regards to the colour choices. Lego has to go with people’s expectations. Somehow among adults there is the (mis-?)conception the Middle Ages were dark and gritty, full of tans and browns and greys. However in the social strata Lego usually depicts (high nobility) bright and vibrant colours were a mark of richness and nobility. Take a look at the Codex Manesse, a manuscript almost 700 years old and faded a lot. Still, you will see bright colours as to make even Lego knights look gritty.

http://upload.wikime...en_(detail).jpg

http://upload.wikime..._der_Setzer.jpg

But what matters is what people think it was. And as of now, people want dark tones. You can observe that even in my currently favoured fiction: A song of Ice and Fire aka Game of Thrones. In the book most characters sport bright garbs and in the TV series it is all grey and dull. Ser Jorah has a proud green surcoat in the book, replaced by some sweated tans in TV. (Hell, the Ironborn in the TV series look like they are dressed in camouflage! Camouflage in pre-modern settings, that is how far we've come with this trend...). In the 50ies, when colour TV was en vogue and relatively new, they used bright colours to a point of silliness in historical movies.

Lego has to follow such trends. So, the Middle Ages have to be dark for our adults, and the kids get the shinies. I generally do not like when someone tries to judge Lego by its realism – whatever that may be in a toy. It is a brand that must sell and it will try no matter what current academia research may dictate.

[Gatekeeper]

I could not agree more with "dgherko", since you cannot customise named licensed minifiures that have flesh printed on their torsos, and most of the named licensed minifigures do not have the proper torso and/or leg prints for medieval knights and/or foot soldiers.

But really look at the LOTR minifigs, LEGO seems to have been VERY careful not to include too much fleshie on these torsos. I'm looking at Frodo, Pippen, Thorin, Gimli and the other dwarf from the Warg attack set and none of them have on scrap of fleshie on them, which suits me wonderfully.

On a side note, if you really look you'll notice that even the the torsos that are supposed to have "yellow" in the are slight different tones then the heads and hands. Because of this I haven't generally worried too much about it. I have a number of Harry Potter characters minding my taverns and their décolletage might be slightly different colors but the intent is clear.

[Sylvarsty]

To me, this castle theme looks just OK, there are some cool figures, but nothing really new is brought to the table with it. I would have liked to see a new really imaginative castle theme that breaks the cliche of lego castle sets. While Knights Kingdom II was not necesarily a great theme, the idea was pretty awesome and imaginitive. If Lego could come up with a new theme with the same type of new idea and execute it well, I'll be on board, but for now I'll probably just get some of the cheaper sets for the figs.

[Good Cragger Fan]

But really look at the LOTR minifigs, LEGO seems to have been VERY careful not to include too much fleshie on these torsos. I'm looking at Frodo, Pippen, Thorin, Gimli and the other dwarf from the Warg attack set and none of them have on scrap of fleshie on them, which suits me wonderfully.

On a side note, if you really look you'll notice that even the the torsos that are supposed to have "yellow" in the are slight different tones then the heads and hands. Because of this I haven't generally worried too much about it. I have a number of Harry Potter characters minding my taverns and their décolletage might be slightly different colors but the intent is clear.

There should be absolutely no flesh in colour in being printed on the torsos -- if the minifigures that are in question are supposed to be wearing clothes and/or armour and thus are not even partially naked there -- for me to use them in a non-lisenced theme context. However, some of the torsos in The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit themes do not have any flesh that is printed on them, so I will use some of them in my medieval Western European Castle minifigures (when I am able to afford the sets that they come in, there).

Edited April 12, 2013 by Good Cragger Fan

[Hive]

There should be absolutely no flesh in colour in being printed on the torsos -- if the minifigures that are in question are supposed to be wearing clothes and/or armour and thus are not even partially naked there -- for me to use them in a non-lisenced theme context. However, some of the torsos in The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit themes do not have any flesh that is printed on them, so I will use some of them in my medieval Western European Castle minifigures (when I am able to afford the sets that they come in, there).

I completely agree with this. With the LOTR (and POTC, for that matter) sets I buy, I keep the figures with no flesh on their torsos and sell their heads and the torsos that do have flesh on them.

[Gatekeeper]

There should be absolutely no flesh in colour in being printed on the torsos -- if the minifigures that are in question are supposed to be wearing clothes and/or armour and thus are not even partially naked there -- for me to use them in a non-lisenced theme context. However, some of the torsos in The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit themes do not have any flesh that is printed on them, so I will use some of them in my medieval Western European Castle minifigures (when I am able to afford the sets that they come in, there).

I think that more of a personal opinion though. Some, obviously, share it but I don't. I don't really like the fleshies but I figure Lego is already a children's toy so I can suspend disbelief for a while.

[The_Creator]

There should be absolutely no flesh in colour in being printed on the torsos -- if the minifigures that are in question are supposed to be wearing clothes and/or armour and thus are not even partially naked there -- for me to use them in a non-lisenced theme context. However, some of the torsos in The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit themes do not have any flesh that is printed on them, so I will use some of them in my medieval Western European Castle minifigures (when I am able to afford the sets that they come in, there).

I agree, that triangle of flesh is totally unnecessary, I like to use my Licensed figs as both fleshies and yellows.

[Maxim I]

And I still think it is absolutely no problem to mix fleshies and yellows in a MOC.

Even in the medieval times, there was already a lot of skin mixture in the important European and Arabian harbours.

Those who still want them all to be the same race (that's your decision), even in a same race, people can have different shades of skin.

So why focusing on just the fleshies or just the yellows? There are a lot of great minifigs you miss by eleminating the others

[Blakstone]

Damaximus, I thought that the purpose behind the yellow minifigs is that the race / skin color is open to whatever you want it to be. I don't believe that those that only want yellow minifigs are saying that all the characters are the same race or skin tone.

While I like the idea of having either all yellows or all fleshies (of any shade), I have only done it once for a MOC. As you say, it is hard to let all of the other wonderful minifigs go. To me that best minifigs are the CMF / Kingdoms for the yellows and LotR for the fleshies. Though I have bought sets from most of the current license lines.

[Maxim I]

Damaximus, I thought that the purpose behind the yellow minifigs is that the race / skin color is open to whatever you want it to be. I don't believe that those that only want yellow minifigs are saying that all the characters are the same race or skin tone.

Yeah ofcourse, I mean, in my GoH-mocs both the norsemen as the desert nomads are yellow, so that's not really what I wanted to say

I just wanted to say that mixing fleshies and yellows is, historically seen, not a bad thing thing to do