Friends "Controversy"

[lorax]

Interestingly (for me anyway) I was going though the latest catalogue with my almost 3 year old daughter on my lap. She was looking through it normally, sometimes commenting on the images until we turned to the Lego Friends pages. Her eyes grew wide and she got excited and started asking if she could play with that Lego. I had already ordered two sets (for me) and I said it would come another day.

A couple of hours later when Papa came home from work, she ran up to him and instead of kissing him, she asked where her Lego was

Considering the range of Lego that is freely available to her (she has access to all the Lego) I found it surprising that she was so excited by it. (And she is not what I would consider stereotypically 'girly'). There is just something about it that she was really attracted to.

[lightningtiger]

Aw, that's sweet 'lorax', you have a sweet little girl there...cheeky too...kids these days eh ?

I guess the colours and animals might have something to do with her passion for Friend's, interesting to see what age groups will be more interested in this theme ?

Please let us know what happens when she builds and plays with those sets....perhaps write us a review from both mother and child.

[BrettBrick]

My 5yo had a similar reaction although she does build and play with the city and kingdoms stuff. I have ordered the 14 sets for her from amazon.fr. She really was interested in the animal ones, especially the Vet set.

[lightningtiger]

And why are very young girls showing such interest, simple.....Dora The Explorer.

The cuteness, the pastel colours, the animals too....it plays right into what little girls like.

But as my son will switch from Harry Potter to Star Wars to POTC, girls would do the same with city to friend's and back again.

[SilvaShado]

So in my mind, the whole controversy is totally misplaced. Friends is not targeted at girls. Friends is targeted at people who buy toys for girls, especially moms.

Very astute observation. I agree completely.

Yes, it's for the girls, but what girls play with is filtered through their parents and what their parents will allow their kids to play with.

For example, the other day on Facebook, one of my friends posted a picture of her sons standing in the LEGO store with the new monthly mini build. They were all happy, even though they had just spent 2 hours waiting in line. One mom commented, boy I'm glad my girls don't like LEGO. I'd never want to stand in line for 2 hours for LEGO.

So this just shows me that it really is the parents who filter what is appropriate for their children to play with. I bet if her girls had been exposed to LEGO without any filtering, they may enjoy it. But now they won't because mom is against it.

I still have to say that my only beef with Friends is that the mini-dolls are not compatible with normal minifigures. But I will be buying these set for parts because I am in love with the new pieces and colors. I'll just be using the mini-doll's hair for my minifigures and tossing all the bald mini-dolls in a bag for storage. I'd sell them, but I don't know anyone who'd want bald dolls. lol!

[Hinckley]

I disagree that they're marketed only towards Moms. I know a couple of the designers at LEGO and the way they explain it is they need to market to children in one target market and mothers in another. So the line has to appeal to both. I won't get into specifics because I'm not sure I'm supposed to share the specifics of their marketing strategies, but there you have it. It's never cut and dry. A lot goes into their marketing and test-market efforts. When they say they spent years talking to children and parents they didn't just ignore the children's input in the long run...

All the jumping up and down, etc., have been done by adults without consulting the one's that really count....the children.

If you read this whole thread there are quite a few examples of people talking to actual children.

[lightningtiger]

If you read this whole thread there are quite a few examples of people talking to actual children.

Pardon me saying so, but I have in places in this topic too.

I was speaking about the members who don't have children or direct contact with children - parents and teachers generally have can read children like a book about their feelings and likes/dislikes....well, sometimes !

An important fact to bear in mind is that marketing products is mine field sometimes, many a product has failed because of it's marketing approach. An example is Kraft in Australia with a new cheese spread....it had to be renamed because it's name was bad that sales were poor. Lego has approached Friend's just Hasbro has with My Little Pony, purples, pinks and other pastels plus fancy scroll writing on the box. Oddly enough I had a chat to another Toyworld staff member, it's bad when they remember your name sometimes (a 43 year old known in a toy shop ), anyway she was a little tired of why toy makers assumed that girls want to buy toys in those colours. She added that Belville never moved (they are stuck with what they got ) and a large proportion of Lego City buyers were girls' or parents of girls. We shall see, I'm still feeling positive for the theme even after all the negative I have heard personally, I doubt it will effect Lego City or any other theme, I hope it will create fans of other forms of Lego in the long run.

[Hinckley]

Pardon me saying so, but I have in places in this topic too.

I was speaking about the members who don't have children or direct contact with children - parents and teachers generally have can read children like a book about their feelings and likes/dislikes....well, sometimes !

I love how many pollees don't have any children.

An important fact to bear in mind is that marketing products is mine field sometimes, many a product has failed because of it's marketing approach. An example is Kraft in Australia with a new cheese spread....it had to be renamed because it's name was bad that sales were poor. Lego has approached Friend's just Hasbro has with My Little Pony, purples, pinks and other pastels plus fancy scroll writing on the box. Oddly enough I had a chat to another Toyworld staff member, it's bad when they remember your name sometimes (a 43 year old known in a toy shop ), anyway she was a little tired of why toy makers assumed that girls want to buy toys in those colours. She added that Belville never moved (they are stuck with what they got ) and a large proportion of Lego City buyers were girls' or parents of girls. We shall see, I'm still feeling positive for the theme even after all the negative I have heard personally, I doubt it will effect Lego City or any other theme, I hope it will create fans of other forms of Lego in the long run.

OK, you have to explain the cheese story. What was the name and what did it mean to Australians that the product didn't sell well?

[lorax]

I love how many pollees don't have any children.

OK, you have to explain the cheese story. What was the name and what did it mean to Australians that the product didn't sell well?

Kraft ran a competition to name the new vegemite and cheese spread. They claimed the winning name was 'iSnack 2.0'... and soon after pulled the name and changed it cheesybite. (Although, most people believe picking such a daft name was a marketing strategy, because it attracted so much attention, so was a marketing win).

[Flipz]

Kraft ran a competition to name the new vegemite and cheese spread. They claimed the winning name was 'iSnack 2.0'... and soon after pulled the name and changed it cheesybite. (Although, most people believe picking such a daft name was a marketing strategy, because it attracted so much attention, so was a marketing win).

Which, coincidentally, ties back into the Friends debate...no matter what the ultimate "verdict" is among the outside world, the controversy itself has raised brand awareness among girls and parents of girls. So, the next time they go into a store and happen to see Lego, that brand awareness might prompt them to stop and take a look instead of just passing by and ignoring it.

[romdam]

I think my biggest gripe with going to Lego boards and reading these threads is that everyone seems to love everything. No one can not like what Lego puts out. Before the sets came out, it was all AFOL's proclaiming how great these sets will be for pieces and all the unique parts. They weren't buying them for any "kids". Now, everyone has a "kid" story that just loves them. Why can't someone not like these sets? Again, I also ask where all this research was done? I can't get an answer to that. I remember one news story about how girls said the classic minifig was too bulky and what not. People thought that was ludacris. Again, sets come out, everyone loves them. Why did these sets have to be SO different? I read on other boards how Playmobil make their sets work without splitting things now to "boys" and "girls" sets. Why so hard here? I'd really love to read this "reasearch" tho..

[AndyC]

I think my biggest gripe with going to Lego boards and reading these threads is that everyone seems to love everything. No one can not like what Lego puts out. Before the sets came out, it was all AFOL's proclaiming how great these sets will be for pieces and all the unique parts. They weren't buying them for any "kids". Now, everyone has a "kid" story that just loves them. Why can't someone not like these sets? Again, I also ask where all this research was done? I can't get an answer to that. I remember one news story about how girls said the classic minifig was too bulky and what not. People thought that was ludacris. Again, sets come out, everyone loves them. Why did these sets have to be SO different? I read on other boards how Playmobil make their sets work without splitting things now to "boys" and "girls" sets. Why so hard here? I'd really love to read this "reasearch" tho..

Well it's something of a self-selecting audience, so it's unsurprising that there's a positive slant. I can't see any appeal in NinjaGo and I think the whole Bionicle/Hero Factory style figures are ugly and some of the ugliest sets Lego have ever devised, however you won't generally find me saying that in those forums because I don't bother commenting on things I have no interest in. Lifes to short to be a hater.

As far as Playmobil goes, they have the advantage that their standard figure has more 'normal' proportions, so it's easier to make them girl-friendly than the minifig (if we assume the TLG comments are true). If you look at their actual sets, however, some are very clearly girl-focused (doll houses, fairys, animals) whilst others more boy focused (conflict based, construction, police, fire) and it's reflected in the gender of the supplied figures.

But even if you hate the Friends figures, its a much better prospect than previous lines like Belville, because everything is effectively minifig scale. As I said elsewhere, in a set like Olivia's House, you're complaining about 9 pieces in a 600+ piece set. You could just discard the figures and evaluate it as a Creator style house and it'd still be a good build and good value for money. If they were poor sets, I think you'd see that in reviews. As it is though, the first wave at least has brought some really good designs and I certainly hope that is something we continue to see.

Edited January 8, 2012 by AndyC

[lightningtiger]

There is an old saying....'There is no such thing as bad PR'.....for the good or bad of a product keeping it in the public's eye raises it even more.

Example, a handful of electronics giants were grilled on national TV current affairs shows a few years back....watched by millions on how bad their products were and years later they are still making and marketing electronics....and even more so making money !

See, I made a point about a cheese spread, it was renamed....but it caused a stir on those same TV shows watched by the same millions.

Hence when Friend's is spoken of either for good or bad, it's in the public domain.

This is all going to blow over, this so-called controversy as there are more important things in the world to worry about.

[SilvaShado]

Well it's something of a self-selecting audience, so it's unsurprising that there's a positive slant. I can't see any appeal in NinjaGo and I think the whole Bionicle/Hero Factory style figures are ugly and some of the ugliest sets Lego have ever devised, however you won't generally find me saying that in those forums because I don't bother commenting on things I have no interest in. Lifes to short to be a hater.

I agree. Most people who don't like a LEGO product aren't going to waste time posting about it unless they have something they want to say.

And not everyone likes Friends. I'm in a love/hate relationship with Friends. I love 95% of it, but hate the other 5% - the figures.

But like everyone has said, just buy the sets for what you like and toss the rest.

I'm sure there are a lot of people who won't be buying these sets at all. Some may have posted here, but most probably have just ignored it and moved on to themes that they like.

[Hinckley]

But like everyone has said, just buy the sets for what you like and toss the rest.

Better yet, sell the rest on Bricklink.

[Vindicare]

I think my biggest gripe with going to Lego boards and reading these threads is that everyone seems to love everything. No one can not like what Lego puts out. Before the sets came out, it was all AFOL's proclaiming how great these sets will be for pieces and all the unique parts. They weren't buying them for any "kids". Now, everyone has a "kid" story that just loves them. Why can't someone not like these sets? Again, I also ask where all this research was done? I can't get an answer to that. I remember one news story about how girls said the classic minifig was too bulky and what not. People thought that was ludacris. Again, sets come out, everyone loves them. Why did these sets have to be SO different? I read on other boards how Playmobil make their sets work without splitting things now to "boys" and "girls" sets. Why so hard here? I'd really love to read this "reasearch" tho..

I don't think people really "hate" LEGO themes. There's aspects that people like and don't like. Most people who will be buying these want the pieces and not the figs. Personally, I won't be buying these sets but I don't hate them. I don't mind them, but they're just not for me. I'm not going to come here and say how stupid they are and bash them(like that troll did in the Ninjago thread). Because what would be the point?

[Hinckley]

I don't believe LEGO fans are really blind followers of anything LEGO produces. Jack Stone, Galidor, Znap...

[LegoMyMamma]

There is a factor that we haven't talked about yet really, the retailer....where will they stick this theme in the girls section next to Barbie or in the actual Lego section, because the latter will still be seen by girls and their interest could be broadened by seeing other themes,.....just a thought.

So far, in the USA they have them at the end of the LEGO aisle, as well as some next to Polly Pockets, and some other places (where the rack is mobile). Here are a few pics for you:

[Legogal]

Very astute observation. I agree completely.

Yes, it's for the girls, but what girls play with is filtered through their parents and what their parents will allow their kids to play with.

For example, the other day on Facebook, one of my friends posted a picture of her sons standing in the LEGO store with the new monthly mini build. They were all happy, even though they had just spent 2 hours waiting in line. One mom commented, boy I'm glad my girls don't like LEGO. I'd never want to stand in line for 2 hours for LEGO.

So this just shows me that it really is the parents who filter what is appropriate for their children to play with. I bet if her girls had been exposed to LEGO without any filtering, they may enjoy it. But now they won't because mom is against it.

I still have to say that my only beef with Friends is that the mini-dolls are not compatible with normal minifigures. But I will be buying these set for parts because I am in love with the new pieces and colors. I'll just be using the mini-doll's hair for my minifigures and tossing all the bald mini-dolls in a bag for storage. I'd sell them, but I don't know anyone who'd want bald dolls. lol!

Whoa!!!! I will buy all of your bald dolls! Just PM me. I need more for my pastel houses and love them. Seriously! Legogal :wub:

[SilvaShado]

Whoa!!!! I will buy all of your bald dolls! Just PM me. I need more for my pastel houses and love them. Seriously! Legogal :wub:

Really?! lol! I didn't think anyone would. When I get some, I'll PM you. I have to get more Super Heroes and Ninjago first, but then it's on to Friends.

[slovakiasteph]

Whoa!!!! I will buy all of your bald dolls! Just PM me. I need more for my pastel houses and love them. Seriously! Legogal :wub:

Have you reached your PM limit yet? I expect your inbox to be flooded soon... We need to come up with other things to do with bald dolls.

[Laura Beinbrech]

Have you reached your PM limit yet? I expect your inbox to be flooded soon... We need to come up with other things to do with bald dolls.

Perhaps some mad scientist creations?

Steph Spider Bot by Hikaro Takayama, on Flickr

[Flipz]

Perhaps some mad scientist creations?

Steph Spider Bot by Hikaro Takayama, on Flickr

......

This just made my day.

[Esurient]

I don't see how it is a "controversy". It is more of a "Lego is too successful, let's create a scandal and boost our magazine sales" or maybe rival companies see TLG as a threat to their products so they plant these seeds of discord to stir up some "controversy". And why is it not a "controversy" when Lego ditched ABS plastic for rubber for some parts? or Lego "Made in China" low quality minifigures and parts? And dinosaurs/animals?And maybe this is all part of TLG marketing scheme to get people talking over their new products, after all they spent millions on advertising Friends; why not get people talking about Lego instead of Hasbro or Playmobil? Think about it, there is no hate out there for Friends products. Lego bricks are creative, and the limit is how creative one's mind can be. Lego has done a lot of research on what boys and girls look for in toys and people who do not like Friends are probably people TLG does not consider to be prospective buyers. I believe Lego wants to dominate children's market so the diversification of products. It is that simple. That is my take on the "controversy".

Cheers.

Edited January 11, 2012 by Esurient

[Aanchir]

I don't see how it is a "controversy". It is more of a "Lego is too successful, let's create a scandal and boost our magazine sales" or maybe rival companies see TLG as a threat to their products so they plant these seeds of discord to stir up some "controversy". And why is it not a "controversy" when Lego ditched ABS plastic for rubber for some parts? or Lego "Made in China" low quality minifigures and parts? And dinosaurs/animals?And maybe this is all part of TLG marketing scheme to get people talking over their new products, after all they spent millions on advertising Friends; why not get people talking about Lego instead of Hasbro or Playmobil? Think about it, there is no hate out there for Friends products. Lego bricks are creative, and the limit is how creative one's mind can be. Lego has done a lot of research on what boys and girls look for in toys and people who do not like Friends are probably people TLG does not consider to be prospective buyers. I believe Lego wants to dominate children's market so the diversification of products. It is that simple. That is my take on the "controversy".

Cheers.

The reason Friends has had any wider "controversy" than the issues you mention is that the issues you mention mostly apply to the LEGO fan community in particular, whereas the "controversy" over the Friends theme is presented as a part of a larger debate over the social implications of gender-specific toy design. Of course, just as in the case of Chinese manufacturing, TLG isn't the first toy company to make toys that have this sort of controversy attached to them.

LEGO ditching ABS plastic for rubber in some parts, of course, would never have any reason to be controversial outside some extremely traditionalist corners of the AFOL community, since rubber LEGO parts are almost always made in that material for structural or functional reasons. TLG has had rubber hose pieces for years and years, so the presence of rubber in LEGO sets is nothing all that new-- it's just that TLG has discovered new uses for more rubbery materials, such as creating parts with thin or pointy sections that would be far too brittle if cast in ABS.

As for why the Friends hairpieces are rubber, I'm not entirely sure, since I haven't ever felt them myself. Perhaps the use of rubber for them is just because softer and more flexible materials for hair look and feel more "natural" to girls, tying in with the overall changes in fig design for the theme aiming for greater realism. The matte finish of the hairpieces definitely makes some of them look more natural on Friends figs than traditional ABS hairpieces, at least from the photos I've seen.