Yperio_Bricks Posted October 13, 2023 (edited) Even as a total train noob i can see that the proportions are a bit off in this set. I guess you can ask random people an the street and they will tell you the same. The cars look massive compared to that lil' switcher locomotive , but still, overall i love the set and the cars are simply beautiful and i am 100% getting this set and it will be my first and only set in this price range. The color scheme is perfect. Edited October 13, 2023 by Yperio_Bricks Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lego3057 Posted October 13, 2023 The locomotive looks small, but it´s not that small in the end. I also think they based it on https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/230_PO_4201_à_4370 The lenght of the real one compared to the Lego one seems to be a confirmation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
*thomas* Posted October 13, 2023 The cars look amazing (and have opening doors !), but the locomotive looks like it doesn't belong in this set. It doesn't remind me of anything that would pull the Orient Express. Like many others, I'm tired of being 'thankfull' that LEGO gives us a train, even tough the design is off. I have a feeling there will be many locomotives and tenders up for grabs in a few weeks/months. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shiva Posted October 13, 2023 3 hours ago, KvadratGnezdo said: I'm just going to say that LEGO for some reason cant get their poop together when it comes to steam trains. First the gigantic Hogwarts Express and now this toyetic nonsence. Star wars guys tore Lego a new one when it tried to sell them a playset as a UCS, this is basically the same. Like come on, this thing doesn't even have a smokebox and the proportions are all wrong. 2 hours ago, samsz_3 said: Yeah - I also really don't like the lack of a smoke box. I think I'll add one when I extend the locomotive. Ok. And here I thought that the black part is the smokebox. If it is not the smokebox, what is it then? @Yperio_Bricks Regarding the length of the locomotive? It is too long, vs the passenger cars. The passenger cars, should be noticeable longer than that locomotive + tender, Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
samsz_3 Posted October 13, 2023 1 hour ago, lego3057 said: The locomotive looks small, but it´s not that small in the end. I also think they based it on https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/230_PO_4201_à_4370 The lenght of the real one compared to the Lego one seems to be a confirmation. I think very loosely based, even more than Maersk/EN/Horizon. I think it's fine not to be based on a prototype, but this doesn't even look like a generic SNCF steam engine. If it has a smoke box, was dark green, and had smoke deflectors, then I could start to buy it. 2 minutes ago, Shiva said: Ok. And here I thought that the black part is the smokebox. If it is not the smokebox, what is it then? @Yperio_Bricks Regarding the length of the locomotive? It is too long, vs the passenger cars. The passenger cars, should be noticeable longer than that locomotive + tender, Apologies, you are right! I meant firebox (been a long week). For those who aren't aware - alot of European steam locomotives have a distinct more squared off part of the boiler next to the cab where the firebox is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shiva Posted October 13, 2023 (edited) @samsz_3 Ahh, yeah, Belpare firebox, on the SNCF 230's. In Sweden, most seem to be Round-topped, or Pacific-type's. This, might rather have a Round-topped firebox, than the originals Belpare firebox. Well, IF this is inpsired by SNCF 230's. Edited October 13, 2023 by Shiva Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yperio_Bricks Posted October 13, 2023 18 minutes ago, Shiva said: @Yperio_Bricks Regarding the length of the locomotive? It is too long, vs the passenger cars. The passenger cars, should be noticeable longer than that locomotive + tender, As i have said, i am a noob when it comes to trains, but when i google for pictures of model trains of the Orient Express i find pictures with various longer and bigger locomotives (locomotive + tender longer than a passenger car) and they look more visually pleasing proportion wise. But as i have said, i will get the train 100% because it is such a beautiful set overall! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hod Carrier Posted October 13, 2023 No locomotive hauled the Orient Express. Every locomotive hauled the Orient Express. Then, as now, Orient Express are only concerned with the train and not the locomotive. They will have a contract with the various railways over whose metals they operate to provide suitable motive power for the service and it was up to the railways in question to roster whatever equipment they had available to the train. Obviously in most instances the railway companies would want to reflect the prestige of the service so they wouldn't use a ratty old freight engine unless there was nothing better available. So you can take any route you like and have free choice from the various express passenger locomotives used by any of the countries through which the Orient Express passed. Personally I don't think that TLG has necessarily based their design on anything specific, but rather given us a generic design based on their previous offerings because, to most people, all steam locos look the same. They're not going to know the difference between a French or an Austrian design. I imagine that this may be the trade-off that permits two passenger cars, as a larger more accurate loco would push the parts count up, taking the price with it, which could put off the casual buyer or non-train interested builder. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wise lego owl Posted October 13, 2023 1 hour ago, Hod Carrier said: No locomotive hauled the Orient Express. Every locomotive hauled the Orient Express. Then, as now, Orient Express are only concerned with the train and not the locomotive. They will have a contract with the various railways over whose metals they operate to provide suitable motive power for the service and it was up to the railways in question to roster whatever equipment they had available to the train. Obviously in most instances the railway companies would want to reflect the prestige of the service so they wouldn't use a ratty old freight engine unless there was nothing better available. So you can take any route you like and have free choice from the various express passenger locomotives used by any of the countries through which the Orient Express passed. Personally I don't think that TLG has necessarily based their design on anything specific, but rather given us a generic design based on their previous offerings because, to most people, all steam locos look the same. They're not going to know the difference between a French or an Austrian design. I imagine that this may be the trade-off that permits two passenger cars, as a larger more accurate loco would push the parts count up, taking the price with it, which could put off the casual buyer or non-train interested builder. The design is based on SNCF 230.G.353. The color choice takes inspiration from this image of the same class. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
*thomas* Posted October 13, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, Hod Carrier said: No locomotive hauled the Orient Express. Every locomotive hauled the Orient Express. Then, as now, Orient Express are only concerned with the train and not the locomotive. Personally I don't think that TLG has necessarily based their design on anything specific, but rather given us a generic design based on their previous offerings because, to most people, all steam locos look the same. They're not going to know the difference between a French or an Austrian design. I imagine that this may be the trade-off that permits two passenger cars, as a larger more accurate loco would push the parts count up, taking the price with it, which could put off the casual buyer or non-train interested builder. You are correct, but why did LEGO choose this very generic locomotive design? Since the initial entry was clearly based off something French, why not make something French? They have chosen a very specific train (well, not a train, but a company) to represent, whynot go 'all in'. Edited October 13, 2023 by *thomas* Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
R0Sch Posted October 13, 2023 Didn't find a blueprint for the 230 G but this Wabash 4-6-0 number 713 is pretty much the same length as our LEGO engine here. So stop whining. The reason LEGO probably chose this generic engine is because Orient Express is also focused on the luxury carriages. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CDM Posted October 13, 2023 (edited) All the snippy back and forth regarding the locomotive is getting tired. Edited October 13, 2023 by CDM Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LordsofMedieval Posted October 13, 2023 1 hour ago, R0Sch said: So stop whining. The reason LEGO probably chose this generic engine is because Orient Express is also focused on the luxury carriages. 1) Critiquing a design is not whining. We're all, supposedly, bakers here - we can comment on their cake. 2) Wrong continent and era. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shiva Posted October 13, 2023 5 hours ago, Yperio_Bricks said: As i have said, i am a noob when it comes to trains, but when i google for pictures of model trains of the Orient Express i find pictures with various longer and bigger locomotives (locomotive + tender longer than a passenger car) and they look more visually pleasing proportion wise. But as i have said, i will get the train 100% because it is such a beautiful set overall! If you have checked H0 model trains, then atleast some makers, shorten the passenger cars. I think I read somewhere that 1:100 in scale length, vs the locomotives 1:87. @LordsofMedieval It would be nice, if there somewhere, would be a list of locomotives that have been used with the Orient Express passenger cars. Even if it would be country based. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sven J Posted October 13, 2023 2 minutes ago, Shiva said: It would be nice, if there somewhere, would be a list of locomotives that have been used with the Orient Express passenger cars. Even if it would be country based. Do you speak German? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yperio_Bricks Posted October 13, 2023 1 minute ago, Shiva said: If you have checked H0 model trains, then atleast some makers, shorten the passenger cars. I think I read somewhere that 1:100 in scale length, vs the locomotives 1:87. I might do that as well and shorten the passenger cars by one or two windows. Have to see the locomotive in person first and then see how it turns out Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
*thomas* Posted October 13, 2023 2 hours ago, R0Sch said: The reason LEGO probably chose this generic engine is because Orient Express is also focused on the luxury carriages. So LEGO thinks we would whine about the carriages if they made a decent locomotive? ;) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shiva Posted October 13, 2023 @Sven J Well, I can understand small bits here and there @Yperio_Bricks Or, just mod the locomotive, to be a bit longer? One axle more of driving wheels? Or maybe add an axle of trailing wheels? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carefree_Dude Posted October 13, 2023 The Emerald Night would probably look really good pulling these train cars. Shame I don't have mine anymore, but still; I know a few years ago you could build an alternate color emerald night pretty cheaply, and I wouldn't be surprised if a dark blue one was fairly cheap. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shiva Posted October 13, 2023 (edited) A blue "Emerald Night" might look quite nice. @Carefree_Dude Well, modified version. Edited October 13, 2023 by Shiva Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yperio_Bricks Posted October 13, 2023 7 minutes ago, Shiva said: @Yperio_Bricks Or, just mod the locomotive, to be a bit longer? One axle more of driving wheels? Or maybe add an axle of trailing wheels? Yes, that would also be an option. Have to see which parts are involved and if i can do it. As i have said earlier, i am a total train noob who just fell in love with the set I also need to see in person how big such a passengar car is in comparison with a modular sized building. Looking forward to get the set Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ToledoRails Posted October 13, 2023 Glenn Holland and I have prepared a joint statement regarding our thoughts on this set, the design changes, and trying to bring a rational viewpoint to quite frankly... the nastiest reception I've ever seen for a Lego Train set. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carefree_Dude Posted October 13, 2023 3 minutes ago, ToledoRails said: Glenn Holland and I have prepared a joint statement regarding our thoughts on this set, the design changes, and trying to bring a rational viewpoint to quite frankly... the nastiest reception I've ever seen for a Lego Train set. This is a pretty good video. Not fair to say that this is the nastiest reception, you should have saw the reactions to 4561 and 4559 as followups to the metroliner. Man I feel old that was almost 30 years ago. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Feuer Zug Posted October 13, 2023 10 minutes ago, ToledoRails said: Glenn Holland and I have prepared a joint statement regarding our thoughts on this set, the design changes, and trying to bring a rational viewpoint to quite frankly... the nastiest reception I've ever seen for a Lego Train set. Decent rebuttal. Even the recent 10-wide Hogwarts Express got worse feedback I feel. LEGO's mea culpa with the 20% off sale shortly after its release spoke volumes. I think the engine is acceptable as a starting point. It will be undoubtedly modded by many, including myself. I wonder how many copies will be sold for the extra carriages and the locomotives sold for scrap? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JopieK Posted October 13, 2023 @ToledoRails great arguments! Also I never like all the complaining by AFOLs, we can just MOD it can't we?! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
