Lego Icons 10332 Medieval Town Square Discussion Thread

[RichardGoring]

I feel like the problem with the Majisto GWP and Eldorado Fortress was they were trying to replicate the classic sets too much, and they are underwhelming as a result as things have moved on so much.

But Barracuda Bay, Galaxy Explorer, Forestmens' Hideout, and Lion Knights' Castle were inspired by classic sets, but with modern twists that give them a lot of additional value and make them really good.

The worry is that the more recent sets follow the 'stick to the classic design' too rigidly, and that may apply to MTS as the next release. However, it seems like MTS was designed at the same time as the LKC, so I hope that it has the same design approach with the modern take on a classic set that we all appear to love.

[Follows Closely]

I will buy it reguardless of my opinion. It's castle! Yes, I am part of the problem.

[Roebuck]

3 hours ago, RichardGoring said:

I feel like the problem with the Majisto GWP and Eldorado Fortress was they were trying to replicate the classic sets too much, and they are underwhelming as a result as things have moved on so much.

But Barracuda Bay, Galaxy Explorer, Forestmens' Hideout, and Lion Knights' Castle were inspired by classic sets, but with modern twists that give them a lot of additional value and make them really good.

The worry is that the more recent sets follow the 'stick to the classic design' too rigidly, and that may apply to MTS as the next release. However, it seems like MTS was designed at the same time as the LKC, so I hope that it has the same design approach with the modern take on a classic set that we all appear to love.

I gave basically that feedback to Lego for the Eldorado fortress I built this weekend  It seems MTS will have a guarded inn replicate at worst (might only be inspired by it) and the rest are new stuff taken inspiration from old sets, so hopefully not a big issue with this set

3 hours ago, Follows Closely said:

I will buy it reguardless of my opinion. It's castle! Yes, I am part of the problem.

Me too, but depends how it looks how many copies I will get If they give me a stupid excuse, like include instructions for a 2-1 build I might get even more 

5 hours ago, Yoggington said:

I'm not trying to compare the sets or predict a crap set, I'm trying to compare the hype train.

When Majisto GWP was leaked a lot of posters built up the set in their minds through months of anticipation, and were (unsurprisingly) disappointed.

At the rate the thread is hyping this set, anything shy of something spectacular is going to be greeted with complaints of all the things the designers didn't do. For a closer example to the point I was trying to make - see the kinda lukewarm reception to the Eldorado remake. The GWP example just seemed to fit better in this Castle thread.

You have a point, if we did not know anything about this set and in suddenly turned up in February people might be more positive at first sight. Now the hype train is going at top speed people might not be as positive if the set do not live up to their expectations at first sight. However if it is a fantastic set people quickly readjust and get more positive. In this case we have a prelim so for me as long as this is close to the prelim we are golden, time will show

[RichardGoring]

7 hours ago, Roebuck said:

You have a point, if we did not know anything about this set and in suddenly turned up in February people might be more positive at first sight. Now the hype train is going at top speed people might not be as positive if the set do not live up to their expectations at first sight. However if it is a fantastic set people quickly readjust and get more positive. In this case we have a prelim so for me as long as this is close to the prelim we are golden, time will show

The same thing happened with Lion Knight's Castle though, and that was generally very well received. I think it's OK to have high expectations for these sets. I continue to fall back on the difference between LKC and Majisto is the design philosophy of faithful recreation vs modern take on a classic. And it seems that most people, me included, prefer the modern take approach. Let's hope MTS follows this style.

[Black Falcon]

17 hours ago, RichardGoring said:

I feel like the problem with the Majisto GWP and Eldorado Fortress was they were trying to replicate the classic sets too much, and they are underwhelming as a result as things have moved on so much.

I wouldn´t call them underwhelming. The Eldorado Fortress is still a great Set and the Majisto would definitely have been better as a set than a GWP - it is however still good for what it is even though that one really suffered from the high expectations and wrong leaks before it´s release.

However, after the Lion Knights Castle I can understand when people rather would have got a new modernised set rather than a close reimagination.

17 hours ago, RichardGoring said:

But Barracuda Bay, Galaxy Explorer, Forestmens' Hideout, and Lion Knights' Castle were inspired by classic sets, but with modern twists that give them a lot of additional value and make them really good.

For me, the hideout and the Galaxy Explorer are actually both Sets that were rather close to the original, so more comparable to the Eldorado Fortress than the Lion Knights Castle. And actually I would have prefered to have the Galaxy Explorer as a more modernized Version than it is.

17 hours ago, RichardGoring said:

The worry is that the more recent sets follow the 'stick to the classic design' too rigidly, and that may apply to MTS as the next release. However, it seems like MTS was designed at the same time as the LKC, so I hope that it has the same design approach with the modern take on a classic set that we all appear to love.

I wouldn´t say it was designed at the same time as the Castle, but wouldn´t wonder if the same Designers were working on it - and none of the infos we got gives us a hint that it would be a reimaginated Set like Galaxy Explorer or El Dorado - it actually is quite save that will be similar to the Castle, however I don´t expect them to hit the nail with it like they did there (but that is pretty much a personal impression anyways).

[RichardGoring]

5 minutes ago, Black Falcon said:

I wouldn´t call them underwhelming...

Agreed. They are good sets in of themselves. But they underwhelm based on expectations. You just think that they could have done better. And they probably could, had they not been constrained by trying to make it as close to the original as possible.

[Black Falcon]

Just now, RichardGoring said:

Agreed. They are good sets in of themselves. But they underwhelm based on expectations. You just think that they could have done better. And they probably could, had they not been constrained by trying to make it as close to the original as possible.

I agree with that. However those Sets were before I was even born, and they are more aiming towards adults that had them as a kid but might not be that appealing for younger audience, even though of course everyone has a different taste and even if it might be a bit expensive for that, it certainly also is a great playset.

[DonQuixote]

I was impressed with Pirates of Barracuda bay, the Galaxy Explorer remake (1,5xbigger then the original) and ofcourse the Lion Knights castle blew me away. 

Then the rumours spread about Eldorado Fortress. So I was super hyped because Lego allready made 3 fantastic classic sets. 

But when the first picture arrived.... I was so underwelmed I didn't want to buy. I eventually bought it with double VIP. So yes I have the set now but it's not a great set. I really want to like it but I can't. It just looks like a 3in1 creator playset, not a display set. 

The original looked great in 1989 but it's too small and to blocky. The governors office is just a facade and the original doors looks way better then the new ones. It's just a very lazy remaster . But that's just my opinion. 

 

 

[Horation]

6 hours ago, DonQuixote said:

I was impressed with Pirates of Barracuda bay, the Galaxy Explorer remake (1,5xbigger then the original) and of course the Lion Knights castle blew me away. 

Then the rumours spread about Eldorado Fortress. So I was super hyped because Lego already made 3 fantastic classic sets. 

But when the first picture arrived.... I was so underwhelmed I didn't want to buy. I eventually bought it with double VIP. So yes I have the set now but it's not a great set. I really want to like it but I can't. It just looks like a 3in1 creator playset, not a display set. 

The original looked great in 1989 but it's too small and to blocky. The governors office is just a facade and the original doors looks way better then the new ones. It's just a very lazy remaster . But that's just my opinion. 

Keeping in mind the parts budget, what should have been done differently to make it good? 

[capathmo]

2 hours ago, Horation said:

Keeping in mind the parts budget, what should have been done differently to make it good? 

For me, the set feels shallow compared to the original, and the crane is comically large as a result. I do like the detials, but it's clear a number of the pieces went into the rocky shore and the entry ramp, instead of making the walls a bit higher.

[Horation]

3 hours ago, capathmo said:

For me, the set feels shallow compared to the original, and the crane is comically large as a result. I do like the details, but it's clear a number of the pieces went into the rocky shore and the entry ramp, instead of making the walls a bit higher.

Well the "comically large" crane has been almost universally praised for being much sturdier and more functional than the original, so that's one point where I have to disagree.

As for the shore and the ramp, those could have been simplified, and the walls made taller, but then someone (maybe even you) would have complained about the undetailed ramp not looking rocky enough compared to the original, or the shore looking too simple, so it's a catch 22, while 10305 had a much larger budget allowing to avoid such compromises, I do think 10332 will be closer to the later and not 10320 (which was clearly a mishit-but suffered from being too similar to its inspiration, while 10332 won't have any 80s set to copy)

[capathmo]

1 hour ago, Horation said:

Well the "comically large" crane has been almost universally praised for being much sturdier and more functional than the original, so that's one point where I have to disagree.

As for the shore and the ramp, those could have been simplified, and the walls made taller, but then someone (maybe even you) would have complained about the undetailed ramp not looking rocky enough compared to the original, or the shore looking too simple, so it's a catch 22, while 10305 had a much larger budget allowing to avoid such compromises, I do think 10332 will be closer to the later and not 10320 (which was clearly a mishit-but suffered from being too similar to its inspiration, while 10332 won't have any 80s set to copy)

For me, 10305 is definitely a nicer set than 10320, in size and design, but is also significantly higher price. I'm only 2/3s done building LKC so far, but it's been enjoyable the whole time, packed with details, and looks great. The grainy leaked images of 10332 appear to complement the castle well, and I'm definitely looking forward to seeing the high def photos when revealed.

I haven't started building 10320 yet, but plan to modify a few things to make it more to my liking.

[eldiano]

The problem with these sets is that LEGO is being cheap on torso and accessories printing. They are pretending they are still in the 80's. We got better imperial soldiers in 2015 than the el dorado set, however if we compare it to the original one, it's better but Its difficult to erase the 2015 wave from my mind. Same with castle, they are only focusing on torsos and no shields, halberds and axes. Heck, their minifigures get more details but still rather than moving forward and improving, which I get the audience is not there, it feels like they take a step backwards. The fact that majisto's minifigures had no printing whatsoever is worse than the bare mininum. 

I am happy about releases but i'm just nitpicking here. I can build more figures thanks to PAB and get more bricks to enhance them though. 

[Roebuck]

8 hours ago, Horation said:

Keeping in mind the parts budget, what should have been done differently to make it good? 

Hard to know, if you had to make a new version of Eldorado fortress. The best would probably been to say to the designers make a Pirate bluecoat land based set instead of a remake. For me after the boat there was a rather tedious build with loots of small parts for the fort and a lot of rock building. The end-result is not half bad for what it is, but the build experience is not living up to the fantastic experience from B-bay or the very nice one from LCK. Eldorado fortress from 1989 is one of my all time favorites and that Lego make a set like that is a dream come true so it is too bad it did not spark more joy and enthusiasm in me 

However I am still super hyped for Medieval Town Square

[Sir Dano]

Eldorado Fortress is actually great and pirates fans are just overly picky.

[Cyprinus]

Eldorado has quite bad torso printing for the soldiers (the white prints don't fully cover the color of the plastic), and the decision to go modular the way they did hurt it in several areas - we have nonsensical battlements which open to the sea but you're blocked from going around the wall, most areas are extremely shallow when you remove the middle piece, and while the side "entrance" to the fort was going through a tower in the original, now it is basically a hole in the wall, which certainly looks worse in the closed configuration, and doesn't do the fortress any favours when you open it up...

I'm not saying it is a bad set, but it just falls short of how great of a job they did with the sets that came before it.

[RichardGoring]

4 hours ago, Sir Dano said:

Eldorado Fortress is actually great and pirates fans are just overly picky.

I'd say discerning. 

I agree, it's a great set. The problem it has is being (rightly) compared to truly amazing ones like Barracuda Bay and Lion Knights' Castle, which are so magnificent. It is also hindered by trying to replicate the original design too faithfully, instead of doing something inspired by, but not the same as. As many have said, the extent to which the raised baseplate has to be made up if relatively small bricks seems a shame, and they hadn't tried to do that entirely, could those parts have been used for something more interesting?

I'm still glad it exists, but I hope the reaction to it and Majisto's workshop, compared to the other retro sets, show LEGO that people tend to prefer modern sets inspired by classic ones, rather than complete remakes with new pieces. And that we get an inspired-type set with MTS.

[Lion King]

Forest Hideout and Blacktron Curiser GWPs are very underwhelming in my honest opinion. I feel they are very ugly and nostalgic. So I will intend to sell them later this year. 

I do have the unopened Galaxy Explorer set and I did consider about buying Lion Knights’ Castle. But I’m not really into no garlic stuff.  I will need to build Galaxy Explorer and see if I really like it or not….

I don’t feel appealed to El Dorado becaue it’s too faithful to its original version. 

 

So I keep my expectation low for MTS.

[DonQuixote]

17 hours ago, Horation said:

Keeping in mind the parts budget, what should have been done differently to make it good? 

They should have used burps to create the raised baseplate so more budget was available for the fort itself. Lego did a good job with the motorized lighthouse. 

And lets face it guys : classic themes are not Lego's priority. 

It's Starwars and Harry Potter 

[Cyprinus]

I also wonder if it wouldn't be better to have the set open/close instead of going full modular...

Also, did they really need to build up the rock on both sides of some segments? That is a lot of parts that could find better use...

[TeriXeri]

37 minutes ago, DonQuixote said:

They should have used burps to create the raised baseplate so more budget was available for the fort itself. Lego did a good job with the motorized lighthouse. 

I actualy wouldn't have mind some more BURPs used for Eldorado if it meant some better fort walls, and also less cramped cave space.

Sure, it looks more flat, but also not that terrible compared to an old baseplate set which was even more flat.

Police Prison Island has some decent cliffs even for a 7+ set, or maybe those smaller rock pieces seen in the 2022 Ninjago dojo to fill in places.

Ninjago Skull dungeons used those big corner BURPs but they are then covered up with slopes.

But I asume LEGO wanted to have this transition from darkgrey to lightgrey as seen on the old baseplate print.

[Horation]

51 minutes ago, DonQuixote said:

They should have used burps to create the raised baseplate so more budget was available for the fort itself. Lego did a good job with the motorized lighthouse. 

And lets face it guys : classic themes are not Lego's priority. 

It's Starwars and Harry Potter 

The lighthouse was super expensive, partly because of Burps, and people seem to think each part is equally expensive : using one Burp and say, 25 parts to cover it up is about as expensive as using 50, 60 parts like they did, you're not freeing up any parts, you are merely reducing the parts count, which will make it feel like a worse deal, plus AFOLs don't really like such big parts, just saying...

And let's face it guys : classic themes are resurgent 

"No It's Starwars and Harry Potter  " Well, let's look at the facts :

Fact : Brickset counts 922 sets for 2023, of which 158 are gear (ex: Keychains, licensed costumes, etc...), and 38 are books (magazines, etc...),, and they count the three series of minifigs as 54 sets, I shall count them as 3, so 675 actual sets

Fact : Only 49 (7%) are Star Wars and only 20 (3%) are Harry Potter, so for themes that are such a priority, they only have them as 10% of their catalog? Bizarre

Fact : Brickset counts 214 licensed sets (29%), but I did not count a few licensed Icons and technic sets, nor the 2 minifig series, so let's round to 30%, so even if you meant Licenses in General, that's no where near a majority

Fact : the Largest theme, by amount of sets was Lego City, with 62 (9%).

In other, classic themes are maybe not Lego's priority (nor should they be, kids don't want 1980s toys, they want modern toys), but Star Wars and Harry Potter aren't either, and saying the company is killing itself by making such a choice and driving away AFOLs like you (who don't appear to be buying a lot of products anyway) is a silly statement. 

9 minutes ago, TeriXeri said:

I actualy wouldn't have mind some more BURPs used for Eldorado if it meant some better fort walls, and also less cramped cave space.

[...]

But I asume LEGO wanted to have this transition from darkgrey to lightgrey as seen on the old baseplate print.

I think that's the real reason

[JohnTPT17]

I find it very odd that so many people are being so doom-and-gloom about Medieval Town Square. The two most controversial "classic Remake" sets - Eldorado Fortress and the Majesto GWP - were more or less recreations of their original versions, even sharing names with them. If the set was called "Guarded Inn" or something along those lines, then sure, I could see some people having issues. As far as I'm concerned, though, those early leaks make the set look sufficiently large, the minifig descriptions sounded promising, and we've only got a month or so to wait until we get to know for sure what it looks like. Sure, maybe the animal count will be a little under what most people are predicting, but I feel perfectly content with what's been teased, and feel optimistic for the set to come out.

[kuzyabricks]

8 hours ago, Sir Dano said:

Eldorado Fortress is actually great and pirates fans are just overly picky.

exactly! I thought it was great, always wanted an imperial fort. My only complaint is the governor's office really

[DonQuixote]

24 minutes ago, Horation said:

The lighthouse was super expensive, partly because of Burps, and people seem to think each part is equally expensive : using one Burp and say, 25 parts to cover it up is about as expensive as using 50, 60 parts like they did, you're not freeing up any parts, you are merely reducing the parts count, which will make it feel like a worse deal, plus AFOLs don't really like such big parts, just saying...

And let's face it guys : classic themes are resurgent 

"No It's Starwars and Harry Potter  " Well, let's look at the facts :

Fact : Brickset counts 922 sets for 2023, of which 158 are gear (ex: Keychains, licensed costumes, etc...), and 38 are books (magazines, etc...),, and they count the three series of minifigs as 54 sets, I shall count them as 3, so 675 actual sets

Fact : Only 49 (7%) are Star Wars and only 20 (3%) are Harry Potter, so for themes that are such a priority, they only have them as 10% of their catalog? Bizarre

Fact : Brickset counts 214 licensed sets (29%), but I did not count a few licensed Icons and technic sets, nor the 2 minifig series, so let's round to 30%, so even if you meant Licenses in General, that's no where near a majority

Fact : the Largest theme, by amount of sets was Lego City, with 62 (9%).

In other, classic themes are maybe not Lego's priority (nor should they be, kids don't want 1980s toys, they want modern toys), but Star Wars and Harry Potter aren't either, and saying the company is killing itself by making such a choice and driving away AFOLs like you (who don't appear to be buying a lot of products anyway) is a silly statement. 

I think that's the real reason

I was talking about the adult market. The catalogs are targeting kids and that's fine. But if you like historical stuff, other brands do a better job of that.

Why do you assume I don't buy much Lego products? Last year I bought : police station, Rivendell, Motorized lighthouse, Viking Village, Jurassic Park 30 anniversary sets, and 2 times Eldorado Fortress (just to make it bigger)