TLG looking for new Technic designers!

[rm8]

Yes, Denmark is expenive country with high taxes. Even after Moscow it is still expensive.

Don't forget, it take years for Milan Reindl to join LEGO as designer after he send them CV.

So send it now, and then wait.

[allanp]

Hey Lego, I can work from home yes? Yes? 

[Sariel]

FYI, I have been "allowed" into the LEGO recruitment process before, back in 2016 when there was a job opening for a Creator designer. The whole process lasted several months, I can't give you details but I have successfully completed all stages and finally flew to Denmark for a final workshop which lasted 2 days. There were about 8 final candidates and what I can tell you is that it was immediately apparent that we were split into two groups: AFOLs and people who had no prior LEGO experience but who studied industrial design. I admit that we, AFOLs, were absolutely no match for these guys and to the best of my knowledge two people were hired in the end, both of them from the designers group. It's quite possible that the same background is preferred here, and I can also say that being a team player and being able to work with limitations is being taken very seriously.

In the end, it's perfectly possible and perfectly legal that LEGO doesn't want to hire AFOLs for this particular job at the moment. There's probably a lot we would have to unlearn and they may simply prefer to start with someone who's a "clean slate" but with the right education behind him/her.

Edited June 4, 2021 by Sariel

[Lipko]

1 hour ago, Sariel said:

FYI, I have been "allowed" into the LEGO recruitment process before, back in 2016 when there was a job opening for a Creator designer. The whole process lasted several months, I can't give you details but I have successfully completed all stages and finally flew to Denmark for a final workshop which lasted 2 days. There were about 8 final candidates and what I can tell you is that it was immediately apparent that we were split into two groups: AFOLs and people who had no prior LEGO experience but who studied industrial design. I admit that we, AFOLs, were absolutely no match for these guys and to the best of my knowledge two people were hired in the end, both of them from the designers group. It's quite possible that the same background is preferred here, and I can also say that being a team player and being able to work with limitations is being taken very seriously.

In the end, it's perfectly possible and perfectly legal that LEGO doesn't want to hire AFOLs for this particular job at the moment. There's probably a lot we would have to unlearn and they may simply prefer to start with someone who's a "clean slate" but with the right education behind him/her.

It's interesting and valid, but then why are they asking for a portfolio? It implies they prefer candidates with LEGO experience, but if you are right, they basically make AFOLs chase a rainbow.

EDIT: maybe I misunderstood and they didn't ask for LEGO but a generic portfolio...

Also, do you think that the hiring process is not so good if AFOLs make it to de final stage only to fail there easily? I mean at least being talented in industrial design and the ability to work with limitation and in a team should be apparent during many hiring stages.

Edited June 4, 2021 by Lipko

[Maaboo the Witch]

There's not much info about Luke Cragin out there but I did see his name attached to a couple of articles concerning robotics.

[Bartybum]

50 minutes ago, Lipko said:

It's interesting and valid, but then why are they asking for a portfolio? It implies they prefer candidates with LEGO experience, but if you are right, they basically make AFOLs chase a rainbow.

Are they specifically asking for a Lego portfolio, or just a portfolio of industrial design work in general? Because if it's the latter then they're not making AFOLs chase rainbows

[Ngoc Nguyen]

How did Milan get accepted, I wonder? As far as I know, before working for TLG he was an English teacher with apparently no engineering or design background.

[allanp]

Many professional designers and engineers started out as fans of Technic, so I guess TLG expects to find someone who is both. 

[Brickend]

I find this article quite insightful:

https://brickset.com/article/22968/interview-with-andrew-woodman-senior-design-manager-technic

 

[Toastie]

46 minutes ago, Lipko said:

Also, do you think that the hiring process is not so good if AFOLs make it to de final stage only to fail there easily? I mean at least being talented in industrial design and the ability to work with limitation and in a team should be apparent during many hiring stages.

Well this is not at all related to how TLG is hiring, but I do see at least similar patterns here:

I am on a number of hiring committees at my university each year in response to advertised openings ranging from professor (assistant to full) as well as permanent staff (technical and administrative) positions. Again, this is certainly not reaching the level of what TLG is doing but at least getting close for recruiting at the full professor level - in Germany the department has to live with that person for about 25 - 35+ years, as you can't fire them - SOE is built into the package. So the person better fits or there could be fights for that amount of time

One aspect is always: Does a person meet the (all) criteria in the catalog, the committee has assembled before inviting folks? But equally important is to have "diverse" people in the process. Just being good is one thing, meeting all criteria is another, but then comes the "chemistry". And that works only in person. For me the most important thing.

In regard to the hiring process of TLG: I can readily see that industrial designers are better suited for this task than AFOL#1. They study, practice, and learn how to work with compromises, limitations, and integration of technical things and design. We have such a curriculum here at the university and I must say: Impressive. They had 5 3D printers years before we had and so and so on.

However, I can clearly also see that when AFOL#2 is showing similar or even better skills in the in-person interviews and talks, she or he will get the job! If I were TLG ;) I would do in exactly the way @Sariel has described. Maybe even more diverse, not only limited to industrial designers.

Best
Thorsten 

 

[Bartybum]

Precisely what @Toastie said. AFOLs getting so far is probably to do with catching lightning in a bottle

Edited June 4, 2021 by Bartybum

[allanp]

I don't think being a professional industrial designer automatically gets you a job as a Technic designer, nor does being an afol. Being either of those things doesn't mean you are able to design a set that I will want to buy. That's the thing that I think hampers most AFOLs in particular. They end up designing these massive models that have lots of motors, would cost a fortune and all while not being particularly mechanically ground breaking, realistic, robust and reliable. They might be some of those things, but how often do we rip apart official sets for failing in any one of these aspects? I think Milan got the job because he consistently made models that were not crazy big, were robust, recognisable and usually within very tight constraints, in his case using the parts from an existing model with his alternate builds. I can see why an industrial designer, having worked to similar constraints, might have an edge over AFOLs that are used to building whatever they want.

Edited June 4, 2021 by allanp

[rm8]

1 hour ago, Ngoc Nguyen said:

How did Milan get accepted, I wonder? As far as I know, before working for TLG he was an English teacher with apparently no engineering or design background.

He sent his CV and have first intrview after 6 month, and then another chance (first was not succesfull I guess) after 1 year

[Sariel]

3 hours ago, Lipko said:

Also, do you think that the hiring process is not so good if AFOLs make it to de final stage only to fail there easily? I mean at least being talented in industrial design and the ability to work with limitation and in a team should be apparent during many hiring stages.

I can tell you that we had to go through personality tests during that final workshop, and the results seemed to have a huge impact on who gets hired and who doesn't.

2 hours ago, Ngoc Nguyen said:

How did Milan get accepted, I wonder? As far as I know, before working for TLG he was an English teacher with apparently no engineering or design background.

Milan was exceptionally good at building C-models of the official sets, if memory serves me well, and this shows ability to work with limitations much better than free MOCing does.

[1974]

I'm sure they also look at your SoMe presence and that can indeed be a dealbreaker also (not talking about you Sariel!)

Denmark is an expensive country yes, but we get a LOT back through our taxes. Also, being so close to Billund LEGO is very cheap here ... hold on.. lemme just check .. No, it's not

It's actually frightfully expensive

Lastly, many people who work for TLG do not actually live in Billund. It's a rather small town but there are other much nicer places quite nearby in this tiny country

While the pay is not astronomical, the benefits are and Denmark is a very good place to raise a family

Cheers,

Ole

[Toastie]

31 minutes ago, 1974 said:

While the pay is not astronomical, the benefits are and Denmark is a very good place to raise a family

This.

I was waiting for you, Ole, to chime in here; you as native Danish, as you (and others of course here) know much better than I. But now that you just wrote, I'd like to back up that a bit:

I was born in Northern Germany and lived for 20 years in Jübek, which is about 30 km away (by bicycle) from the Danish border, then moved >way too far south< to Kiel for further 18 years, which is about 60 km away from the Danish border ;) well and then elsewhere, which >really< hurt(s).

I for my part could never tell the difference when crossing the border - other than that people are even more relaxed as they are in Northern Germany and extremely friendly. For more than 45 years - no kidding - we spend at least one week of vacation on the island Fanoe - which is about 60 km away from Billund. Have been to Billund multiple times (guess why). I know that many of you do not share the same feelings, but I have to admit that I regard Denmark as one of the most beautiful countries in the world. Green + flat = life + space + biking = perfect. Particularly with regard to the people living there.

And when you have seen or even been to a Danish school - regardless of level, either the elementary school on Fanoe in Nordby or the high school in Schleswig, Germany, (which is a Danish school, as I said, generally not that much of a difference up there), you know where your taxes are going. Building and infrastructure wise and quality of teaching wise (e.g., ratio between #stundents/pupils and #teachers). Or when you look into the Danish medical insurance system and healthcare coverage and quality: One of the best in the world. Go to a public library or any other public building with public service: You'll be served - top notch.

How do I know? Been there, part of the family visited the Danish school system (in Germany), some of my former high-school friends do work there. All I am hearing is: It is not only worth the taxes - there is so much more, usually expressed as superb quality of life.

BTW no one of them wants to get back to Germany. I can clearly see that - no surprise at all.

Best
Thorsten         

 

Edited June 4, 2021 by Toastie

[1974]

Yeah, it's about the complete package

Also (and this is something TLG doesn't mention), there is free beer when you come to Aarhus and visit me

[Toastie]

2 hours ago, 1974 said:

there is free beer when you come to Aarhus and visit me

Does that only apply to folks who have managed to get invited to Billund by TLG, hired by TLG or would you possibly also accept a document that says: "I tried to the best of my knowledge" or something, signed by me?

Have a nice weekend!

Thorsten

[1974]

It applies to anyone I've personally invited in pms

Tschüss,

Ole

[allanp]

I also hear that it's very flat, so the cycling is excellent!

[nerdsforprez]

21 hours ago, Sariel said:

I can tell you that we had to go through personality tests during that final workshop, and the results seemed to have a huge impact on who gets hired and who doesn't.

In my experience when personality tests are used for hiring there is an extreme amount of emphasis placed on "fit."  Often, if these are used companies will barter talent for "fit."  I have been a part of academic institutions where talent has been set a aside in favor of one's ability to play well within the organization. 

There are many very talented artists, builders and designers out there.  It may very well boil down to having a baseline set of skills, experience and talent but true selection criteria being based on how one fits within the Lego ideals, limitations, and vision of the other members of the building team.  

[allanp]

@nerdsforprez Fit is exactly right. In my experience I'd much rather work with another engineer I get along with!

Edited June 5, 2021 by allanp

[Brickthus]

On 6/5/2021 at 12:58 PM, nerdsforprez said:

In my experience when personality tests are used for hiring there is an extreme amount of emphasis placed on "fit."  Often, if these are used companies will barter talent for "fit."  I have been a part of academic institutions where talent has been set a aside in favor of one's ability to play well within the organization. 

There are many very talented artists, builders and designers out there.  It may very well boil down to having a baseline set of skills, experience and talent but true selection criteria being based on how one fits within the Lego ideals, limitations, and vision of the other members of the building team.  

This is the difference.  Many AFOLs have different vision from that of TLG.

TLG's vision has to consider the primary consumers, children of the minimum age on the box.  Only recently have 18+ AFOL sets been a "thing".  Even then, they are going for new markets to get more people to buy some LEGO kits, rather than going for those of us who buy plenty already.  Ultimately they have to fulfil the vision of profit.

AFOL visions range from bigger models in the chosen theme(s) to layouts in the chosen theme(s) to mash-ups between chosen themes to new model in an AFOL theme (such as modular buildings or supercars) to new ideas in the brick.  I would count my own engineering aspects of vision, including maximising capability of the system, as being in small minority.  I think TLG also realise the limitations of the materials, so we are not going to get motors even more powerful than the PF XL, simply because one of those can already twist an axle.  I also doubt we will ever get a motorised flying model in a set because of the liability issues and drone licensing, which may be different in each nation - too many hoops to jump through.  We won't get 8mm scale trains because they are too big and costly.  We won't get a realistic jet engine model because it would not have the market, even with proprietary sponsorship.

Play value may be a common element of vision but the AFOL idea of that may differ from TLG's idea of it.  I enjoy building Technic sets but I find I'm not getting the play value out of the Control+ ones, partly because programming is too fiddly on a phone.

On 6/5/2021 at 1:23 PM, allanp said:

@nerdsforprez Fit is exactly right. In my experience I'd much rather work with another engineer I get along with!

I have had some excellent times with other engineers at work, when we have bounced ideas off each other and made such rapid progress on solving a problem; that is addictive!  I guess there is a lot of that at TLG but not quite on the same topics; there they are prototyping models on a theme to create a range of sets at price points.  With Technic it is a bit more individual but the theme has to cover a number of bases in the product range, to continue to capture the market each year.  The question might be "what size and colour of aircraft should we have, compared to the size and colour of boat, truck and car?"

As I have gained some years of experience at work, I have enjoyed working better with others.  I'm still great on my own but value the group activity equally.  I can show great "syntality" (group encouragement behaviour) as long as I know the parameters.  This has been particularly good in innovation.  Even then, it does not make me the best "hub" person.  I wonder if TLG will find issues in their hiring process when it comes to candidates on the Autism spectrum, who may show limitations in teamwork but may be the best individually.  It may also be that TLG prefer to hire younger people whom they can mould more.

I think I'm in a better position where I am.  As an engineer there are more needed where I am than there are at TLG.  The pay is better, so I can afford my LEGO habit.  Innovation is often about me making time to fit it in, rather than it being the whole job, which leaves me greater incentive to do more of it.  I also have some opportunity to raise patents, some of which have resulted from my models.  Some of the problems I tackle are more difficult, and with higher consequence, than those to make a decent model kit; there is more about "designing a system for safety" where I am.   As a safety engineer I get to say "no" a lot but most people appreciate it, especially when I take the initiative to show an alternative.

I suppose even Technic is more arty than I am used to being.  I have got as far as considering the whole model as a system with functions but there is still more to it than that.

Mark

[9v system]

@Brickthus i agree about the powered up thing, should have done what mouldking do with their control system, i feel that lego have shot themselves in the foot with the horrible new power system

[Void_S]

Summarizing all the feedbacks here I also made one more possible "criteria" that might be a cornerstone for TLG. Besides the personality tests, team work, etc. "all these team so-workers things" and experience in Industrial Design...

Why they promote this company so much? Do they really need to hire new designers so much? I think that the "new" term is the most important word here - possibly TLG needs someone who is a really "breath of fresh air", who will really move this series forward.

Look at the "Control+" system - no one of AFOLs would never make it not because of complexity but because this change is still the biggest subject of community debates. No, it wasn't the thing that AFOLs wanted so much (some of us still do not want it) but, let's be objective, it moved the Technic theme a lot.

The same, I believe, happened during the stud>studlless transition. Some of us even still hate these early-2000x blue-colored sets but they also moved the theme a lot.

My idea that "well-good AFOLs why perfectly follows the existing Technic flow" may not be the template of a person TGL is looking for. Just my opinion.

Edited June 10, 2021 by Void_S
a typo, sorry