Is it time for LEGO to stop being colorblind?

[neonic]

Interesting topic 
Is it me or ... are there some pics/reactions missing?
I thought there was a post with two figures, one had a shirt on with a guitar? One said it looks like a punker, right.
It's funny to read how some people react on things. About the Simpsons, it's indeed a thing, I've never thought of it and never associate with Lego or otherwise. I guess there are a lot of prejudices of everything. In my time is was much easier. There were just yellow figures with eyes and a mouth. That's it. You played with it. You build something and put some figures with it. Male, female, who cares. 

Besides the discussion of there must be (more) black figures, or not, you can also ask why all the fire and police are male?,Or why are there no lesbians or gays in Lego sets and so on. Where is the end?
In Holland we have Sinterklaas, there is a lot of comotion about it every year lately. And also some attraction of the park the Efteling. Those attractions exist for about 30a 40years and now they gonna complain, and Sinterklaas is much,much older.
Some things are not good and had to change but other things ... it it for many years so and it's good, why change it?
And those Lego ... keep it simple, keep it yellow 

 

[MAB]

10 hours ago, neonic said:

Besides the discussion of there must be (more) black figures, or not, you can also ask why all the fire and police are male?,

 

Well, ...

 

I cannot be bothered to cut and paste any more.

 

10 hours ago, neonic said:

Or why are there no lesbians or gays in Lego sets and so on.
 

How do you know this? Can you spot someone in the street and know their sexual orientation? 

[The Brick Boss]

11 hours ago, neonic said:

Or why are there no lesbians or gays in Lego sets and so on.

You can always make them yourself! 

[neonic]

MAB: I think I missed a few years  thanks for posting.

6 hours ago, MAB said:

How do you know this? Can you spot someone in the street and know their sexual orientation? 

Well, when you see some people it's pretty obvious. It's no doubt about it. Like we say 'it's dripping off'.

 

[DanDelie]

What the hell. You cannot guess who’s gay or not just by looking at them. Plus what’s the problem with lego minifig colors?

[Jim]

16 minutes ago, DanDelie said:

What the hell...

Please tone it done a notch or two will you. Thanks.

[DanDelie]

Sorry.

[Jim]

1 minute ago, DanDelie said:

Sorry.

Cool 

[DanDelie]

I don’t wanna be toxic XD

But what did you meant by saying that Lego was « colourblind »?

[Darkdragon]

33 minutes ago, DanDelie said:

I don’t wanna be toxic XD

But what did you meant by saying that Lego was « colourblind »?

You could read the thread or at least the first post to find out what was meant. If you don't want to be toxic then don't be toxic. 

[DanDelie]

Makes sense

XD

I see that you’re in the animation department, I’ve done a short lego movie lately. Is there a way i can show it ?

Edited June 16, 2020 by DanDelie

[Aanchir]

21 hours ago, neonic said:

Besides the discussion of there must be (more) black figures, or not, you can also ask why all the fire and police are male?,Or why are there no lesbians or gays in Lego sets and so on. Where is the end?

I'm not sure why you pitch that as if it's some kind of absurd question. There are plenty of people who would love to see more gay or lesbian representation in LEGO themes, myself included. Mind you, that sort of representation has more to do with characterization than design, so would pertain mostly to "play themes" supported by character-driven storytelling (like LEGO Friends, Ninjago, or Hidden Side), rather than to minifigures on a more general level. But that doesn't mean it's not something worth talking about.

21 hours ago, neonic said:

In Holland we have Sinterklaas, there is a lot of comotion about it every year lately. And also some attraction of the park the Efteling. Those attractions exist for about 30a 40years and now they gonna complain, and Sinterklaas is much, much older.

Just because you weren't aware of those sorts of concerns until recently, that doesn't mean that they didn't exist beforehand. And traditions lasting a long time doesn't prove that they're harmless. After all, in my home state of Virginia, chattel slavery lasted for over 240 years, and was followed by nearly 100 years of racial segregation. Many other offensive traditions in my state and country have continued even within my lifetime.

I certainly never expect to live in a world where inequalities and prejudices against minorities don't exist. But even though attempting to resolve a concern like that won't guarantee there won't be similar concerns in the future, that's no excuse to disregard them entirely! After all, that sort of defeatist attitude would be exactly the opposite of LEGO's "only the best is good enough"/"det bedste er ikke for godt" philosophy.

Edited June 16, 2020 by Aanchir

[KotZ]

14 hours ago, MAB said:

How do you know this? Can you spot someone in the street and know their sexual orientation? 

7 hours ago, neonic said:

Well, when you see some people it's pretty obvious. It's no doubt about it. Like we say 'it's dripping off'.

7 hours ago, DanDelie said:

What the hell. You cannot guess who’s gay or not just by looking at them. Plus what’s the problem with lego minifig colors?

If I can jump back into this, depending on the person, you definitely can. I currently live in Los Angeles (or, well, one of the numerous neighborhoods), and I've met a lot of LGBT people out here. I've met quite a few even back in my conservative, Texan hometown. I've met LGBT people who absolutely did not strike me as gay or lesbian. But when you live out in LA, and when you go around West Hollywood especially, you can definitely tell if someone is gay or not. Don't take this as me knocking on them. There are just a lot of gay stereotypes, and where I live, it seems like a lot of people live up  to that stereotype. In Texas (and depending on what region you're in), they might not be as apparent, but that's really a discussion for another forum, not this one.

12 hours ago, Brandon Pea said:

You can always make them yourself! 

I think you've got it spot on. LEGO minifigures can be whoever and whatever you want. You can make straight figures, you can make gay figures, you can make trans figures. You can make figures of any race thanks to LEGO's yellow-minifigure approach.

I think LEGO would do best avoiding colors of figures (unless it's a licensed theme) and instead focusing on culture. The more cultural torsos we see, the better overall. Because we can get figures for lots of themes that way. Hairstyles are also a good way to do it. For example, my girlfriend is white but her hair is insanely curly. The best minifigure hair (which it represents her well) is the curly mass of hair in the new Bookstore modular. TLG should highlight different ethnicities and cultures, as long as they don't divide it among race. There are a lot of physical qualities humans share that aren't just race. Classic Yellow shows we're all human with slight variations, and you just need a little imagination to be whatever or whoever you want.

[The Brick Boss]

On 6/16/2020 at 7:37 PM, KotZ said:

I think you've got it spot on. LEGO minifigures can be whoever and whatever you want. You can make straight figures, you can make gay figures, you can make trans figures. You can make figures of any race thanks to LEGO's yellow-minifigure approach.

I think LEGO would do best avoiding colors of figures (unless it's a licensed theme) and instead focusing on culture. The more cultural torsos we see, the better overall. Because we can get figures for lots of themes that way. Hairstyles are also a good way to do it. For example, my girlfriend is white but her hair is insanely curly. The best minifigure hair (which it represents her well) is the curly mass of hair in the new Bookstore modular. TLG should highlight different ethnicities and cultures, as long as they don't divide it among race. There are a lot of physical qualities humans share that aren't just race. Classic Yellow shows we're all human with slight variations, and you just need a little imagination to be whatever or whoever you want.

I appreciate that KotZ. Thank You. I try to use my brain sometimes. I guess I'm not entirely hopeless. I started MOCing more recently. So a lot of things that Lego does doesn't really bother me anymore. Though I would like to see how City would handle its bricks when it comes to a post office or grocery store. As far as minifigs are concerned, I don't even put those together when I buy vehicles. I make my own. That's just who I am. 

I think Lego HAS done it's best when it comes to race-free but culture based minifigures. For example, you can clearly tell that Duke DeTain is supposed to symbolize an African American stereotype because of the thick eye brows and peasy beady hairstyle. I could compare Freya McCloud to an emo redhead because....let's be honest. No one is born with scarlet red hair. Same with Chief Wheeler having ASD or Harl Hubbs being the stereotype of a handyman from Minnesota. I'll even harp back onto the Nijago characters and them being Asian stereotypes. That's just a few examples.  Personally, I love it when Lego talks culture with their generic yellow figs. It gives them more character. 

Edited June 19, 2020 by Brandon Pea

[AmperZand]

On 6/16/2020 at 12:12 AM, neonic said:

Or why are there no lesbians or gays in Lego sets and so on. Where is the end?
... keep it simple, keep it yellow 

 

With regards to there being no homosexual minifigures in any sets, this minifigure could of course be any sexual orientation that you wish to ascribe or none, but...

And this one is most definitely saphic. No doubt about it:

This one is also homosexual (and in this version, a yellowy):

To your point about keeping it yellow, I do agree. LEGO trying to be inclusive through fleshies (and no yellowies) or other attempts at representativeness would court far more bad PR than good.  

Edited June 17, 2020 by AmperZand

[Karalora]

I was just thinking, another reason fleshies work better in licensed themes than they would in non-licensed is the presumption of interchangeability in the latter. In most licensed themes, every part of a minifigure is specifically designed to represent one particular character in a specific costume, so if the head/neckline/hands are all one color and can't be swapped with parts in a different flesh tone without the figure looking mismatched...that's fine. They're not really supposed to be swapped. City minifigures, however, are marketed on the basis that you can remix the parts to make different characters as much as you want, and introducing different skin tones would limit the extent to which you could do that.

Edited June 17, 2020 by Karalora

[BrickG]

On 6/16/2020 at 12:12 AM, neonic said:

Besides the discussion of there must be (more) black figures, or not, you can also ask why all the fire and police are male?,Or why are there no lesbians or gays in Lego sets and so on. Where is the end?
In Holland we have Sinterklaas, there is a lot of comotion about it every year lately. And also some attraction of the park the Efteling. Those attractions exist for about 30a 40years and now they gonna complain, and Sinterklaas is much,much older.
Some things are not good and had to change but other things ... it it for many years so and it's good, why change it?
And those Lego ... keep it simple, keep it yellow 

Sinterklaas stuff aside, I'm don't think just because you do something for a long time that it's any legit defense to keep doing it. Everything should be open to analysis and questioning and readdressing. Otherwise movement on things like woman's suffrage and equal rights in areas wouldn't have been addressed. Why give women a vote if they didn't have it ever in a country and we'd all been doing it that way through history? A common defense was "we've always done this" and since it can be used to defense both good and bad things it seems completely irrelevant to me.

If yellow is the way to go for LEGO that's fine. Doesn't mean we can't readdress it every now and then. Maybe in 100 years after the "they actually have bright yellow skin" genetically engineered robot people start appearing LEGO might have to readdress it because everyone thinks the LEGO minifigures now represent them only. Or maybe in 10 years for whatever reason it doesn't work anymore. Or maybe it never stops working. IMO it's always fair to ask and historical usage is kind of irrelevant.

Edited June 17, 2020 by BrickG

[TeriXeri]

3 hours ago, Karalora said:

I was just thinking, another reason fleshies work better in licensed themes than they would in non-licensed is the presumption of interchangeability in the latter. In most licensed themes, every part of a minifigure is specifically designed to represent one particular character in a specific costume, so if the head/neckline/hands are all one color and can't be swapped with parts in a different flesh tone without the figure looking mismatched...that's fine. They're not really supposed to be swapped. City minifigures, however, are marketed on the basis that you can remix the parts to make different characters as much as you want, and introducing different skin tones would limit the extent to which you could do that.

Yes, exactly, even mix and match is a bit harder to do with minidolls as they use 3 skin tones, and even Friends theme promotes swapping parts with their cloth shops basicly being torsos.

 

Now, of course there are many minifigs that aren't yellow in many non-licensed fantasy/scifi/supernatural themes now and in the past, but most of season 1 and 2 sets of Hidden Side have the option to have normal figures.

But such figures have been part of LEGO for a long time, with minifig skeletons, robots and aliens existing in the 90s, and the first Classic Space robots and Ghost Suit are even older then that.

 

I see Licensed as a whole different subject, I see how it works fine for those themes, based on external characters, not designed by LEGO, they gotta follow some actor/source material, and I think it also makes more sense that way for authenticity.

Licensed themes used to have yellow figures of course, as discussed before, but I think changing all licensed themes to a certain standard was a good thing.

I don't see the need to change things to either all yellow, or all fleshie, as I'd assume there's plenty of opposition toward both moves.

Also it seems to highly depend on when someone got into LEGO, as myself, being away from LEGO from 2001-2016, Fleshie figures still feel somewhat new and different to me, as Star Wars started as yellow when I had a 1999 set, but I can see the younger generation or people who just recently got into LEGO to see skin colors as normal, and yellow as weird, but that's 100% okay.

Friends or Elves, used skin tones since they appeared, so there never were 2 sides of the coin for minidolls.

I also have 0 fleshie figures in my collection, nothing to do with race, but with interest of the themes/sets more then anything.

 

Edited June 17, 2020 by TeriXeri

[KotZ]

17 hours ago, Brandon Pea said:

I appreciate that KotZ. Thank You. I try to use my brain sometimes. I guess I'm not entirely hopeless. I started MOCing more recently. So a lot of things that Lego does doesn't really bother me anymore. Though I would like to see how City would handle its bricks when it comes to a post office or grocery store. As far as minifigs are concerned, I don't even put those together when I buy vehicles. I make my own. That's just who I am. 

I think Lego HAS done it's best when it comes to race-free but culture based minifigures. For example, you can clearly tell that Duke DeTain is supposed to symbolize an African American stereotype because of the thick eye brows and peasy beady hairstyle. I could compare Freya McCloud to an emo redhead because....let's be honest. No one is born with scarlet red hair. Same with Chief Wheeler having ASD or Harl Hubbs being the stereotype of a handyman from Minnesota. I'll even Harper back onto the Nijago characters and them being Asian stereotypes. That's just a few examples.  Personally, I love it when Lego talks culture with their generic yellow figs. It gives them more character. 

We might disagree sometimes on CITY sets and the volume of variety they produce, but oh well.

I think your points about LEGO working to be race-free are spot on as well.

3 hours ago, Karalora said:

I was just thinking, another reason fleshies work better in licensed themes than they would in non-licensed is the presumption of interchangeability in the latter. In most licensed themes, every part of a minifigure is specifically designed to represent one particular character in a specific costume, so if the head/neckline/hands are all one color and can't be swapped with parts in a different flesh tone without the figure looking mismatched...that's fine. They're not really supposed to be swapped. City minifigures, however, are marketed on the basis that you can remix the parts to make different characters as much as you want, and introducing different skin tones would limit the extent to which you could do that.

I agree on all of this.

[LEGO Historian]

This whole thread is kind of pointless....

Throughout LEGO history until the minfigs came out in 1978... other ethnic groups, such as Africans in native garb, or Middle Easterner Muslims in Birqa's and others were represented in LEGO builds, such as these alternative builds in 1960s model sets 316, 324, 321, and 317.

 

Edited June 21, 2020 by LEGO Historian

[DOOM!]

For me race never entered into the equasion,  I always swap the licenced set figures for yellow figures,  because they match the rest of my yellow figures. Yellow is the color the figures have always been for me, It's  the color of Lego people.. I guess I kind of feel like the flesh tones are taking away a little of the creativeness of a toy line founded on creativity, I never had a problem imagining yellow figures being what I want them to be.

 I think a lot of people came into the hobby after the licenced figures came to be, for them I can understand the dislike of the yellow figures, they just didn't  seem real enough, but by then I had way more yellow figs than I would care to swap.

Edited June 23, 2020 by DOOM!

[MAB]

7 hours ago, DOOM! said:

I guess I kind of feel like the flesh tones are taking away a little of the creativeness of a toy line founded on creativity, I never had a problem imagining yellow figures being what I want them to be.

 

Do you feel the same about printing on the minifigure parts?

 

For example, these two yellow skins. Which allows more creativity, and which style do you prefer? One that limits creativity in that it is clearly a woman in a pink leotard and cannot be used for much else, or the plainer one that could be anything? Personally, I prefer the detail of the printing and I don't feel creativity is limited too much in that there are so many different prints available. Particularly minifigures are limited to what they can be used for, but given enough range, creativity is not limited. 

 

I ask as I feel the same way about fleshies vs yellow. I don't think having flesh tones limits creativity at all, so long as there is a decent range of flesh tones and body parts available that are compatible with those flesh tones.

 

Edited June 23, 2020 by MAB

[The Brick Boss]

1 hour ago, MAB said:

 

This one allows more character. So it's better. I think he was specifically talking about skin representation. 

Edited June 23, 2020 by Brandon Pea

[DOOM!]

Brandon, ya got me there, I do like the printed pieces. DOH! Still prefer my yellow figures though ;P

[The Brick Boss]

1 hour ago, DOOM! said:

Brandon, ya got me there, I do like the printed pieces. DOH! Still prefer my yellow figures though ;P

I do yellow minifigures too. I don't even do flesh tones.

Edited June 23, 2020 by Brandon Pea