[MOC] 1:48 Southern Railway / Bulleid Leader

[Commander Wolf]

 

Hello all, long time no post! This project is kind of a wash at this point, but I think it is still worth a share.

Perhaps that's appropriate as the SR/Bulleid Leader is best known for being a total flop, an unconventional design with a lot of new features that of course proved too complicated and unreliable to even see regular service. Five of the 0-6-0 + 0-6-0 articulated locomotives were laid down, but only one was completed, tested, and deemed unsatisfactory before the whole lot was scrapped. 

 

I usually only build American trains, but I make exception for the Leader as I have a fondness "advanced steam" designs like the ACE 3000 and the 5AT. Also like the 5AT, I had built a mediocre model of the Leader a long time ago and wanted to revisit it...

 

Like almost all of my train models, the Leader is built at roughly 1:48 scale, and the chassis can navigate all the normal LEGO R40 track geometries. At this scale the locomotive should really be 7-wide (as should most British engines), but I fudged it and made it 8-wide such that the body would not be wider than the trucks, which I could not narrow due to the huge greebles on their outside frames. 

Also due to the trucks I had to compromise on the lower line of the body: the prototype has a very long sweeping curve over the two inner drivers, but I could not get enough clearance between the wheels and the cowling to make this work on R40 curves, even with the pivots right next to the center axles. For now that line is just abbreviated, which is sad.

 

The roof has a bit of a hodgepodge of different curves. The 2x8xN bow is a good approximation of the actual look, but I had to use other combinations of parts to model the various features on the top of the loco. I think the mix of implementations does a good job defining the shape but also giving it some texture, though there are some cracks especially around the bunker that possibly could be smaller. 

 

Moving on to the internals! This model has a pretty unique drivetrain and this was one of the main reasons I wanted to build it: when I bought a used 7722 a few years ago, I noted that the 4.5v system had a feature that has never appeared again on any subsequent train system, and that is the ability to run a train point to point**

 

I thought it would be really cool to build a nice model that could leverage this functionality, but it would have to be a locomotive that could realistically pair with the two-axle 4.5v battery box, so revisiting the Leader seemed like a good choice. Furthermore, I wanted to try out an interesting articulation mechanism for the Leader proposed by fellow builder @jtlan, which would theoretically work well with the large outside frame greebles. 

 

 

Unfortunately it's this 4.5v drivetrain that really hasn't worked well. It seemed to work fine in the ample testing I did prior to finishing the model, but the shell turned out to be really heavy, and the motors have trouble moving it at a meaningful speed while pulling a meaningful train. You can see some of the test beds and the final product in this short video:

 

Ultimately, I've tried to tweak it to no avail, so this will probably have to be converted to PF for it to work well, and I don't really have that much motivation to do that as 4.5v was the whole point. So for now, that's that; there are a few more pics once the Brickshelf folder is moderated, but otherwise have a nice day!

** What I mean by point to point is in the video at 0:10

[Hod Carrier]

Congratulations on pulling off a very complex build full of innovative features. I particularly like the clever bogie articulation you’ve come up with. She may not run very well at the moment but she’s a looker for sure. You’ve got the proportions pretty much spot-on, which isn’t always easy on a loco like this one when you’re trying to include a working drivetrain.

The Leader Class was very much the wrong loco at the wrong time. The theory was sound in that it was immensely powerful and the double-ended design gave the same flexibility of operation as a diesel loco, but it was overly complicated and unpopular with crews, especially firemen who were located in a separate compartment in the centre of the loco without adequate ventilation. Ultimately the diesel designs that were coming through at about the same time were cheaper and easier to operate.

I hope you’re not going to give up on her just yet. She deserves to live, even if only as a static model complete with number and lining. I should point out that I think you’ve got the wrong BR emblem. What you have there is the later “ferret and dartboard” logo, but the Leader should have the “unicycling lion”.

[ColletArrow]

I can only echo what Hod Carrier's said - you've created a fantastic looking model of a truly bizarre prototype, even if it doesn't work all that well. I also think that the bogie design is a spectacular piece of engineering, as is getting the external shaping looking accurate. It's almost the complete reverse of the original, in that it looks better than the power it puts out! 

[Unfinished_Projects]

I like the effort to use older electronics! That's a shame that it doesn't have enough power.  Maybe you could use the 12v motor with the same form factor, and wire a higher voltage battery inside the 4.5v box?  This could allow for more power while retaining the back and forth action.  There would also be no design changes to the train itself.

Unfinished_Projects

[Commander Wolf]

2 hours ago, Hod Carrier said:

I hope you’re not going to give up on her just yet. She deserves to live, even if only as a static model complete with number and lining. I should point out that I think you’ve got the wrong BR emblem. What you have there is the later “ferret and dartboard” logo, but the Leader should have the “unicycling lion”.

 

I do have the unicycling lion... I think? At least this was what I saw on someone's model... though whether or not that model was accurate, I'm not sure 

Spoiler

 

 

2 minutes ago, Unfinished_Projects said:

I like the effort to use older electronics! That's a shame that it doesn't have enough power.  Maybe you could use the 12v motor with the same form factor, and wire a higher voltage battery inside the 4.5v box?  This could allow for more power while retaining the back and forth action.  There would also be no design changes to the train itself.

Unfinished_Projects

I don't want to mod the 4.5v battery box car, so point to point will probably have to be for a future (smaller) model, but it is still on my bucket list! This one will probably get converted to PF  (or maybe powered up!).

 

One thing you can do with the 4.5v motors is wire them in series and then run them as pairs off the PF controller via the 9v extender/adapter. That's probably what I'm going to do if I want to keep the 4.5v motors in this loco, but they need a lot of gearing down and so far I haven't found the space to fit the PF battery box and receiver without compromising structural integrity. I'll definitely update the thread if I get around to it though.

[Hod Carrier]

11 minutes ago, Commander Wolf said:

I do have the unicycling lion... I think?

Whoops!! My bad. So you do. I couldn’t see the yellow lion against the grey background in the photos. I must get to the optician. 

[Matt Dawson]

Nice video! I'm surprised you're using 4.5V but it's an unusual change... can't wait to see it have some 'oomph' with PF though.

And is that a PRR T1 I see in the end of the video?

[Commander Wolf]

On 3/22/2019 at 11:11 AM, Matt Dawson said:

Nice video! I'm surprised you're using 4.5V but it's an unusual change... can't wait to see it have some 'oomph' with PF though.

And is that a PRR T1 I see in the end of the video?

That is indeed my T1! ... it's roughly the same scale. You can see the original thread from 2014, though it has been updated a bunch since then!

[Man with a hat]

That's an impressive build, especially the mechanics.

[zephyr1934]

That is an insane prototype and an excellent recreation. Great work!

 

On 3/21/2019 at 2:04 PM, Commander Wolf said:

Moving on to the internals! This model has a pretty unique drivetrain and this was one of the main reasons I wanted to build it: when I bought a used 7722 a few years ago, I noted that the 4.5v system had a feature that has never appeared again on any subsequent train system, and that is the ability to run a train point to point**

I THINK someone had a thread here a couple years back where they recreated this functionality for PF... probably using a pole reverser.

[Commander Wolf]

23 hours ago, zephyr1934 said:

I THINK someone had a thread here a couple years back where they recreated this functionality for PF... probably using a pole reverser.

 

That would be too easy 

[XG BC]

i think i ve found the video of it:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Z71NVK7Z71NVK7ScOM

Hope this helps!

XG BC

[Commander Wolf]

Hello all, bit of a necro here, but I finally had the chance to convert the Leader to PF and compile a ton more footage into a video:

 

This took a while to get to mainly because I didn't have any spare motors, but also because I incorrectly thought the obvious PF implementation was a double M motor configuration, since the internal cavity is mostly four-wide. After tinkering with it on and off and on and off in LDD, I couldn't find a way to fit the battery box and receiver, so it kept sitting. Eventually I bought a bunch of extra PF motors (since PF is going away ) and I found out that a single XL was the perfect form factor for the engine and it's basically the power equivalent of two Ms. The engine was so heavy in the end that it hasn't needed rubber bands yet. 

 

 

 

There's no change to the external appearance of the locomotive (save for needing a receiver bump), and I attribute it to building the body and chassis in two separate parts: it makes it much easier to do drivetrain swaps like this, despite having to do some minor modification to the body. Now that I've been able to run it more my biggest gripe (after the inaccurate under-body curve) is the overhang on R40 curves, but there is probably nothing I can do about it at this point, and at least in my LUG wide radius curve is becoming much more common (thanks @M_slug357 ).

 

 

Thanks for looking!

 

EDIT: Instructions for this model are now for sale on Rebrickable: https://rebrickable.com/mocs/MOC-63417/NonsenseWars/148-southern-railway-bulleid-leader-v2-power-functions

Edited January 21, 2021 by Commander Wolf

[SteamSewnEmpire]

I'd be very interested to see it run on some larger curves. It's hard to get a feel for it snaking around the Lego ones (though I appreciate that it can do it).

Here's the no less bizarre (and no more successful) American equivalent:

Edited March 10, 2020 by SteamSewnEmpire

[Paperinik77pk]

Oh, what a beautiful engine - and great solutions for the wheel articulation (and transmission) too. I really like it, it's massive!!!

A pity that the 4,5v motor could not manage it - it was an original motorization!!!  

Ciao,

Davide

 

p.s.

I like the Model M IBM keyboard too (clickety-clack!)

[Commander Wolf]

6 hours ago, SteamSewnEmpire said:

I'd be very interested to see it run on some larger curves. It's hard to get a feel for it snaking around the Lego ones (though I appreciate that it can do it).

 

There's actually a lot of wide radius footage in the video, just most of it is R56... what you're looking for is probably these timestamps for R120:

 

https://youtu.be/CwOQEIaV2QA?t=75
https://youtu.be/CwOQEIaV2QA?t=630

 

 

[Rustie86]

On 3/10/2020 at 4:35 AM, SteamSewnEmpire said:

I'd be very interested to see it run on some larger curves. It's hard to get a feel for it snaking around the Lego ones (though I appreciate that it can do it).

Here's the no less bizarre (and no more successful) American equivalent:

Not exactly. The Bulleid Leader used steam pistons to apply power to the wheels more like a regular steam locomotive. Jawn Henry, the N&W locomotive in your picture, went a step farther and used the steam from the boiler to drive a turbine, in turn driving an electrical generator. That then powered traction motors geared to the axles like a typical diesel-electric locomotive. This was basically a giant coal-fired power plant on wheels, which turned out to be too complex to be practical. 

[zephyr1934]

On 3/10/2020 at 2:47 AM, Commander Wolf said:

Hello all, bit of a necro here, but I finally had the chance to convert the Leader to PF and compile a ton more footage into a video:

That is insane! Like the prototype, the build is wandering into areas one would never think possible (but the build was far more successful than the prototype in achieving its goals). Neat project, while it certainly needs wide radius curves to look at home I like the fact that you made sure it could handle R40.

[Commander Wolf]

4 hours ago, zephyr1934 said:

That is insane! Like the prototype, the build is wandering into areas one would never think possible (but the build was far more successful than the prototype in achieving its goals). Neat project, while it certainly needs wide radius curves to look at home I like the fact that you made sure it could handle R40.

Thanks zephyr, appreciate your thought as always. I'm starting to get really torn on the R40 issue. With wide radius being used more often I don't know if I should care that stuff doesn't work on R40 anymore. I resist because it feels strongly non-purist to me (and I'm strongly purist when it comes to LEGO), but it does block a handful of bigger designs I like (say PRR Q2 or 80' passenger cars), though not too many. Which leads me to this next point:

 

On 3/10/2020 at 1:35 AM, SteamSewnEmpire said:

I'd be very interested to see it run on some larger curves. It's hard to get a feel for it snaking around the Lego ones (though I appreciate that it can do it).

Here's the no less bizarre (and no more successful) American equivalent:

I'm a huge fan of the turbine engines (M1, John Henry, UP 1-75), steam and gas but they are all huge and would look silly on R40, though something I would start considering making to run on wider radius. The good part about the various turbines is that they don't have large drivers so it's easier to make something that will still work on R40 even if it looks silly. In fact I started working on the UP 8080 experimental GTEL, but never really got that far:
 

Spoiler

 

[zephyr1934]

17 hours ago, Commander Wolf said:

I'm starting to get really torn on the R40 issue. With wide radius being used more often I don't know if I should care that stuff doesn't work on R40 anymore. I resist because it feels strongly non-purist to me (and I'm strongly purist when it comes to LEGO), but it does block a handful of bigger designs I like (say PRR Q2 or 80' passenger cars), though not too many.

I too am a purist from an operational standpoint, if a model will run on R40 it will run anywhere. It is nice to be able to use normal switches and/or the tight R40 curves in a layout if you need them to save space, even if they are not on the main line. It is also a fun challenge to superimpose on top of what might already be a difficult build. Still, one does need to make exceptions for some trains. You could honor the purist in you by declaring that a particular build is specifically for static display on straight track, but gosh, look at my surprise when it handles R88 curves (grin). Your UP turbine is off to a good start

[M_slug357]

Snapshot: Overhang versus Underhang.

[Hod Carrier]

Oops!! You have a swept kinematic envelope issue there. 

Glad to see the updates on the old girl. You've got her running very sweetly. The R40 issue is something that I think you might have to let go of if your trains are even anywhere close to scale.

[Hod Carrier]

Oops!! You have a swept kinematic envelope issue there. 

Glad to see the updates on the old girl. You've got her running very sweetly. The R40 issue is something that I think you might have to let go of if your trains are even anywhere close to scale.