Lord of the Rings Ongoing Discussion

[MAB]

6 hours ago, hikouki said:

Meanwhile, Lego would rather make several sets for upcoming new/ untested movies (non-LOTR) rather than the classics (LOTR, or otherwise). When these movies flop, and Lego sets flop as well, Lego just says there is no market for it?

For decades now, merchandising has tended to concentrate on producing toys for new and current movies as they advertise the movie and the movie advertises the toy. There are very few movie franchises that outlive the original release and can continue to sell toys way past the dates of the original movies. 

[mirkwoodspiders]

"Plans for LOTR" - sounds like a full-blown theme to me. I'd buy every set they released if it happened. I missed out on everything but Orthanc last time around and wouldn't make that mistake again!

[Gorilla94]

Well, I expect a Balrog. The new Ninjago dragon horns look too specific.

[MAB]

5 minutes ago, mirkwoodspiders said:

"Plans for LOTR" - sounds like a full-blown theme to me. I'd buy every set they released if it happened. I missed out on everything but Orthanc last time around and wouldn't make that mistake again!

That depends .... it could be "Our plans for LOTR are to have one big set and a few brickheadz."

 

[Something_Awesome]

1 hour ago, MAB said:

That depends .... it could be "Our plans for LOTR are to have one big set and a few brickheadz."

 

Could be. But not believable. I mean where it’s just one big set and more brickheadz. Money talks. I think the real decision for LEGO is if the cheaper entries should be playsets and battlepacks, or dioramas.

[RichardGoring]

Very interesting. And here's me not having even bought Rivendell yet. Better get to that quickly.

[Artanis I]

A bit of jumping to conclusions going on...

Most likely it's just a bunch of more brickheads (or busts). A full wave of minifig-scale sets based on the 20 year old movies would be very much out of left field.

[Balrogofmorgoth]

Why do people have to drop random vague clues and give us hope. “They have plans” could mean literally anything, let’s not get ahead of ourselves AS MUCH AS I WANT TO

On 12/2/2023 at 1:29 AM, Artanis I said:

A bit of jumping to conclusions going on...

Most likely it's just a bunch of more brickheads (or busts). A full wave of minifig-scale sets based on the 20 year old movies would be very much out of left field.

One of the most popular IPs in the world though, it’s not terribly far-fetched. I still think full waves of playsets would do very well right now. And I’ll say it again. Battlepacks. Were. Made. For. LOTR. It’s a perfect fit

[neithan]

But how popular is LotR really?

 

Everybody seems to know it, has read the books, watched the movies (a couple or more times), has watched the... "interesting" season RoP.

I don`t often hear people really talk about it, most of the time it´s here or in another Lego Forum. So I have no evidence that it is that popular (Disclaimer: I LOVE this franchise and would really love more Lego Sets!!!).

[Ravenclaw62442]

2 hours ago, neithan said:

But how popular is LotR really?

 

Everybody seems to know it, has read the books, watched the movies (a couple or more times), has watched the... "interesting" season RoP.

I don`t often hear people really talk about it, most of the time it´s here or in another Lego Forum. So I have no evidence that it is that popular (Disclaimer: I LOVE this franchise and would really love more Lego Sets!!!).

I think large sets like Rivendell every couple of years if 18+ dioramas is the sweet spot for this team. 
 

I think you need to have interest from kids for a play scale theme and I just don’t think that’s there. Just look at what Lord of the Rings merch is out there and it’s pretty much all geared towards adults. You’d need new movies for kids to get into it. 

[MKJoshA]

4 hours ago, neithan said:

But how popular is LotR really?

 

Everybody seems to know it, has read the books, watched the movies (a couple or more times), has watched the... "interesting" season RoP.

I don`t often hear people really talk about it, most of the time it´s here or in another Lego Forum. So I have no evidence that it is that popular (Disclaimer: I LOVE this franchise and would really love more Lego Sets!!!).

Maybe I'm just too much of a fanboy but I think Lego LOTR would sell as well as Lego Harry Potter. There hasn't been a Harry Potter movie in awhile yet Lego is still releasing sets in 2024. I feel like LOTR could fair almost as well as Harry Potter.

[Balrogofmorgoth]

2 hours ago, MKJoshA said:

Maybe I'm just too much of a fanboy but I think Lego LOTR would sell as well as Lego Harry Potter. There hasn't been a Harry Potter movie in awhile yet Lego is still releasing sets in 2024. I feel like LOTR could fair almost as well as Harry Potter.

I’m not sure it would sell quite as well but I do think people are vastly underplaying how popular it is. I think it would sell almost as well. I’m really not sure why people don’t think kids would like it. 

[Gorilla94]

I don't believe we will see Battlepacks. Yesterday I saw new even better chinese elven  minifigures. Lego could have done this 10 years ago. It would have been like printing money back then. Now it is too late. 

Playsets won't happen. Lotr is one of the best movie trilogies ever made. I would say it also has huge educational value. You won't find much better role models  than Aragorn or Sam in most of existing media. But it is too slow and challenging for most of the younger generations, who grew up with mobiles and the MCU. 

I think there will be large UCS sets as long as they are successfull enough.

[Black Falcon]

8 hours ago, neithan said:

I don`t often hear people really talk about it, most of the time it´s here or in another Lego Forum. So I have no evidence that it is that popular (Disclaimer: I LOVE this franchise and would really love more Lego Sets!!!).

Well honestly, how often did you hear people talking about Star wars when there were no new Films and Series? Well when the Rings of Power were announced people talked about it - and when it was out too. But I think the series was not good enough to really catch people like LOTR did.

The main problem would likely be that LotR indeed has many adult fans, but I don´t think it is that popular by kids - while more parents dragged their kids into Star Wars.

4 hours ago, MKJoshA said:

Maybe I'm just too much of a fanboy but I think Lego LOTR would sell as well as Lego Harry Potter. There hasn't been a Harry Potter movie in awhile yet Lego is still releasing sets in 2024. I feel like LOTR could fair almost as well as Harry Potter.

Hmm, I have my doubts here. Harry Potter is still very popular by both Adults and Kids - while LotR would have a lot adult consumers - but certainly less than Harry Potter. I mean, likely there would be many parents also gifting their kids such sets, but how many kids would really wish for them, when there is Harry Potter and Ninjago around?

However I have no doubt that LotR-Sets would sell good - and compared to Harry Potter they have one big advantage - it is more likely that adults buy several copys of a set for Army Building, whereas you basically can build an Harry, Ron and Hermione -Army by buying several HP-Sets alone ;).

[Lion King]

25 minutes ago, Gorilla94 said:

I don't believe we will see Battlepacks. Yesterday I saw new even better chinese elven  minifigures. Lego could have done this 10 years ago. It would have been like printing money back then. Now it is too late. 

Playsets won't happen. Lotr is one of the best movie trilogies ever made. I would say it also has huge educational value. You won't find much better role models  than Aragorn or Sam in most of existing media. But it is too slow and challenging for most of the younger generations, who grew up with mobiles and the MCU. 

I think there will be large UCS sets as long as they are successfull enough.

Chinese elven minifigures?

Edited December 4, 2023 by Lion King

[Gorilla94]

12 minutes ago, Lion King said:

Chinese elven minifigures?

They are posted on instagram golden weapon hilts, silver printing on blades, highly detailed armour. LEGO would look inferior, if they tried.

[MAB]

2 hours ago, Balrogofmorgoth said:

I’m not sure it would sell quite as well but I do think people are vastly underplaying how popular it is. I think it would sell almost as well. I’m really not sure why people don’t think kids would like it. 

Because it didn't seem to sell that well (especially to kids) first time around.

29 minutes ago, Black Falcon said:

Well honestly, how often did you hear people talking about Star wars when there were no new Films and Series?

Pretty much every day, since about 2000. Plus I frequently saw and still see kids, young and old, wearing SW t-shirts or with SW lunchboxes. SW lost popularity in the late 80s and early 90s but grew again with the growth of the internet.

Same with HP. I regularly see both adults and kids wearing HP clothes or having HP accessories. But LOTR,  very rarely. Of course there are die hard LOTR fans, but within the general population I don't think it is popular enough to be ingrained in everyday life like SW or HP.

[Balrogofmorgoth]

40 minutes ago, Gorilla94 said:

They are posted on instagram golden weapon hilts, silver printing on blades, highly detailed armour. LEGO would look inferior, if they tried.

But the quality on those figures is horrendous and they look abysmal in person

37 minutes ago, MAB said:

Because it didn't seem to sell that well (especially to kids) first time around.

A) that was ten years ago. I think the fan base has grown exponentially since then, and the younger fans have grown up and had kids that they indoctrinate 

B) no one knows for sure what happened last time. The poor reception of The Hobbit coming out and most of the sets being based on that probably had a lot to do with it and lego said “well I guess middle-earth doesn’t sell” not taking into consideration that maybe it’s just The Hobbit that doesn’t sell. And even that I think has grown a little more positive in people’s minds in general than when it came out

C) RoP coming out and being largely received poorly gives people a lot of nostalgia for the Jackson trilogy. Note the difference between this, and the previous argument. Now there wouldn’t be three waves of RoP sets taking priority in the LOTR line the way The Hobbit sets did back then.

I know for a fact that my kids would crazy over LOTR sets. And I know a lot of other families whose kids would do the same

1 hour ago, Gorilla94 said:

I don't believe we will see Battlepacks. Yesterday I saw new even better chinese elven  minifigures. Lego could have done this 10 years ago. It would have been like printing money back then. Now it is too late. 

Playsets won't happen. Lotr is one of the best movie trilogies ever made. I would say it also has huge educational value. You won't find much better role models  than Aragorn or Sam in most of existing media. But it is too slow and challenging for most of the younger generations, who grew up with mobiles and the MCU. 

I think there will be large UCS sets as long as they are successfull enough.

I don’t think it’s too late at all. I think now is a better time for it than it was then. The fanbase is so much bigger now

Edited December 4, 2023 by Balrogofmorgoth

[Black Falcon]

I am still hoping when the new films are coming, that they will make sets for them and then new sets for LotR

[Shroffy123]

When do we anticipate official pictures will be released? Feb 2024?

[MAB]

3 hours ago, Balrogofmorgoth said:

A) that was ten years ago. I think the fan base has grown exponentially since then, and the younger fans have grown up and had kids that they indoctrinate 

Kids back then that have now grown up will presumably want adult sets and not play sets. To be successful (as in, sell as well as some other IP aimed at kids), it has to appeal to more than just kids whose parents like it. There is a big difference between individual and expensive sets aimed at an adult audience that can sit on shelves (or internet warehouses) for a couple of years without really taking up much retail space, and entire themes of smaller sets aimed at kids that would normally need more significant shelf space in regular retail stores and supermarkets.  Although both are LEGO,  they are very different products. Those small sets have to sell in very large volumes for retailers to want them on their shelves.

3 hours ago, Black Falcon said:

I am still hoping when the new films are coming, that they will make sets for them and then new sets for LotR

I think that is the best hope for smaller sets. Pushing the movie back again to Dec 2024 probably doesn't help if they were planning to do a LEGO tie-in.

[Yperio_Bricks]

3 hours ago, Black Falcon said:

I am still hoping when the new films are coming, that they will make sets for them and then new sets for LotR

That's my hope too!

[Balrogofmorgoth]

53 minutes ago, MAB said:

Kids back then that have now grown up will presumably want adult sets and not play sets. To be successful (as in, sell as well as some other IP aimed at kids), it has to appeal to more than just kids whose parents like it. There is a big difference between individual and expensive sets aimed at an adult audience that can sit on shelves (or internet warehouses) for a couple of years without really taking up much retail space, and entire themes of smaller sets aimed at kids that would normally need more significant shelf space in regular retail stores and supermarkets.  Although both are LEGO,  they are very different products. Those small sets have to sell in very large volumes for retailers to want them on their shelves.

I think that is the best hope for smaller sets. Pushing the movie back again to Dec 2024 probably doesn't help if they were planning to do a LEGO tie-in.

What are you even talking about? You know adults collect regular playsets, right? Not just 18+ sets? I’m saying I believe LOTR has enough appeal to all ages to do well as a normal theme. 

[Black Falcon]

I think the prices of the original sets proof that there is demand for them. Of course that doesn´t tell how big the demand is. But again, LotR has the advantage, that people want armies of Knights of Gondor and Rohan and Orcs. I also belive, that this demand is higher than is was back in the day, since there are more adults buying lego now.

[Lordhelmet]

two thoughts.

1) I think the adult fans argument does not really hold up well when we look at other IPs as an example for battle packs.  I keep seeing this argument, well it's really only adult fans so it should just be 18+ sets.  Star Wars battle packs is an example of how adult fans spend on lego.  Look at the popularity of clone packs with the generation that grew up with the prequels.  The 501st battle pack sold a lot (as do other clone sets).  LOTR battle packs would sell well as the theme lends itself to Army building just like Star Wars does.  (I know Star Wars sells better, not comparing that aspect, just the fact that battle packs would sell really well with 18+ crowds and children).  There is also an absence of good sets under $30 for kids anyway, adding something that adults like to buy for their kids (or the crazy amount of birthday parties that they have to attend) would also line up with the theme, especially battle packs.  I think the best approach for the theme is one big UCS style set, one or two dioramas, and 3-5 play sets (including one battle pack) each year.  I think it is a bigger iP than Indiana Jones or Avatar but probably not as big as Harry Potter from a Lego Sales opportunity. (selfishly I would also like a CMF line which I think would sell well).

2) I think the Hobbit really tanked the LOTR theme back in the day.  At first the LOTR theme was incredible, I bought every set (sometimes 2 or more).  Then the Hobbit stuff started taking over and I bought all of the LOTR sets holding out for the theme to improve by releasing some Gondor or other good sets.  I did not buy many Hobbit sets (bag end, and some smaller ones at the time).  I think Lego looked at both themes as the same and discontinued based on the Hobbit sets poor performance.  If they had continued rolling out good LOTR sets (or a true battle pack vs. the wall set) I think the theme would have continued on strong for a few years at least.