Shipwrights Guild Hall (WIPs, feedback, and advice)

[Roadmonkeytj]

4 hours ago, Bart said:

.......
tumblehome is .... (better at bouncing back cannonballs)

Bart

And here I thought it was to help keep strength and stability when under a heavy list from the wind ... Shows what I know about ships ... Hahaha

@Elostirion Im liking the color choices and look forward to seeing this progress

[Bart]

3 hours ago, Roadmonkeytj said:

And here I thought it was to help keep strength and stability when under a heavy list from the wind ... Shows what I know about ships ... Hahaha

Actually just straight up sides are best for stability. 
tumblhome starts above the waterline. It has the same function as the angled armer of a tank. the diagonal cross section of the wood is var longer then the straight line, so the canonball is met with more resistance, but there is not more wood used in the building, so saved on material and weight but with a gain in defence. 

 

[Maxim I]

Elos, great start!

As Bart said, scaling based at minifig height 1,80m is not the best thing. Also, don’t forget people were a bit smaller back then.

In addition, deck height wasn’t the same as person height. In most case, people had to bend to move inside the deck.

Well, I expect a masterpiece from you :p I hope to have mine finished by the end of the month. I already spent more than 30 hours on rigging, and still not done :p

[LM71Blackbird]

So, I decided to toy around with another xebec ship design. It's the same as my smaller one a couple of pages back, except I widened and lengthened the hull and added a fourth mast. I think it is looks pretty cool, but I'd like to see what you all think as well! I don't think it's 100% historically accurate , but like I said, I thought it looked cool. Thanks!

Large Xebec 1 by LM71Blackbird, on Flickr

[Elostirion]

It really does look cool and fast. Those coats of arms on the sails look especially amazing.

 

I continued a bit with some of your feedback in mind and redesigned the side. I like it a lot more now.

(I feel it does look a lot better in reality than on those pictures..

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

[Legostone]

@Elostirion Much better already! Next step is to tackle the bow - right now it seems off, its just 2 bows stacked ontop each other. Look at this example:

Notice the nearly vertical sides after a certain point, with the headrails in-between? Can be done using curved slopes, slopes or hinges, but stacking several bows ontop of each other generally looks quite odd. 

I've started another vessel myself; I'm not gonna show much yet, but I think I got the bow worked out...

Inspiration for this part:

 

Some detailing still missing on the bow, but the shape of the headrails seems to work even better than I had initially expected.

[Mesabi]

I thought I'd be brave and try to use the small yacht hull to make a pleasure yacht. Can I get some tips?

I know Sir Stig used it in his AMCRA, so it is doable,

Freeport Overview by Stig Ove Bjørnstad, on Flickr

Mine:

WIP yacht by North White, on Flickr

WIP yacht by North White, on Flickr

WIP yacht by North White, on Flickr

Thoughts?

[Bodi]

@Elostirion A very promising start, you are building a colossus here! Bart and Legostone have made some good points and all I can add is to wish you good luck, but you'll probably don't need it, you surely know your stuff.

@LM71Blackbird Looking good, I like its color scheme and I like the large slope pieces you used on the hull, I'm trying to build a custom hull with these pieces, about the same way you did here.

@Legostone The expert has struck again, I'm absolutely a fan of that bow, is it a frigate you are building? 

@Mesabi Nice attempt with the modern hull piece, by jugding your pic, I think it would look better if you could add something behind the stern, to make it look less square, thus less modern-ish.

[LM71Blackbird]

20 minutes ago, Bodi said:

 Looking good, I like its color scheme and I like the large slope pieces you used on the hull, I'm trying to build a custom hull with these pieces, about the same way you did here.

Thanks! The coloring is not completely final yet, but red, white, and black are there to stay! Cool! Can't wait to see what you come up with!

[Legostone]

14 minutes ago, Bodi said:

@Legostone The expert has struck again, I'm absolutely a fan of that bow, is it a frigate you are building? 

Yeah, its gonna be a frigate, but that is where I'm gonna stop giving more information  I can already tell my wallet is going to hate me, 7 BL orders so far (yay shipping...

), and I fear I'm not done on that side... Goal is finishing it before Brickmania Wetteren, but I see that as highly unlikely, but at least I don't have to worry about sails this time around, those have already been made a long long time again by someone else...

[Maxim I]

@Elostirion, don’t kill me now, but considering you only have done one side, I’ll put it here :p

have you thought about 4 studs between the gunport? As it is an Indiaman, it would be more accurate. 

I have done the same on the Margot (3 studs) and it is something I will handle the moment I will rebuild her later this year :)

[Roadmonkeytj]

@LM71Blackbird you know looking at this ... If you married the rear ... (Starting with the long curve up and back ) .... With the front ... (from the last stern most cannon forward) ... then square rigged with a gaff rigged mizzen that extended over the helm ... With that side treatment ... I think that would be a slick looking ship ... But commenting on this ship specifically ... To me it seems like the masts are all crowded forward and there is a big gap at the stern  ... The cannons only on the front of the ship throw me off as well lol but still a great looking build.

@Legostone I am in love with that woodwork drawing ... Was that ship ever built in real life?  But Im also really liking that flex tube work.  It makes a really elegant headrail.  Do you buy specific lengths or do you just buy a long section and cut to fit?  ... One day I will have to borrow the technique 

@Elostirion ... I may agree with maxim here If you have enough bricks I would be curious to see a side by side shot with the 3 brick spacing to the 4.  Is it enough to drop considerable ports off or are you only loosing a couple? 

Were your plans to keep it a single gun deck with guns on the weather deck or planing on another gun deck? If adding a second I definately would say go four so your ports dont line up and can remain staggard between the decks

@Mesabi  while I think its neat trying to use the "modern" hull I feel like it comes off looking rather tugboat barge shaped.  In the example you showed he's made them look more like small sloops or schooners which works well ... Yours still has a more modern sailboat feel with the high center cabin.  It would be nice to see you keep the stern (but add some railings) and taper that back into the modern hull then taper back up to tie in the bow ... Which i like the way youve included a figurehead.  I would use the hollow center in that hull to your advantage to make it appear as if there is much more ship bellow the deck and less on top.  As far as the rails ... Look at lm71blackbirds recent post of his xebec ... Take note of the way he did the railings to trick the eye into following a curve.  Ships are like women the curvy ones get all the attention! Lol

Edited March 11, 2018 by Roadmonkeytj

[Elostirion]

1 hour ago, Maxim I said:

@Elostirion, don’t kill me now, but considering you only have done one side, I’ll put it here :p

have you thought about 4 studs between the gunport? As it is an Indiaman, it would be more accurate. 

I have done the same on the Margot (3 studs) and it is something I will handle the moment I will rebuild her later this year :)

 

27 minutes ago, Roadmonkeytj said:

@Elostirion ... I may agree with maxim here If you have enough bricks I would be curious to see a side by side shot with the 3 brick spacing to the 4.  Is it enough to drop considerable ports off or are you only loosing a couple? 

Were your plans to keep it a single gun deck with guns on the weather deck or planing on another gun deck? If adding a second I definately would say go four so your ports dont line up and can remain staggard between the decks

Thanks for the input, I will definitely give this some thought. It would reduce the amount of cannons from 24 (12 per side) to 20 (10 per side). Bricks are not an issue (will just need dark green 1x2 instead of 1x1), nor is the effort of rebuilding the thing. The result is what matters to me, and I am here to learn, so yeah. :-) 

I will definitely stick with one gundeck. Looking at some Indiaman-pictures again I guess you are quite right about the distance between the gunports. Stay tuned for an update. Hehe.

 

And the more I look at the current version of my ship, the more I feel it should be a tiny bit higher from the water surface...

 

And Maxim, I am definitely looking forward to a rebuilt Margot!

[Bart]

@LM71Blackbird I personally may not be a fan of the Xebec design, but your build is a fine example of one, I do suggest moving the aft mast more aft and making it a bit shorter. 

@Elostirion Good improvement on sheer and tumblehome! And what was said above about the gun spacing. for an indaman compared to a military vessel. I like where you are going.

@Legostone Raising the bar for the rest of us, aka setting a fine example of what is possible in bricks.

@Mesabi You can get away with almost anything for a pleasure craft, but the mast placement is off. I'd suggest placing it way more forward, right in front of the cabin actually.

 

[LM71Blackbird]

10 hours ago, Roadmonkeytj said:

@LM71Blackbird you know looking at this ... If you married the rear ... (Starting with the long curve up and back ) .... With the front ... (from the last stern most cannon forward) ... then square rigged with a gaff rigged mizzen that extended over the helm ... With that side treatment ... I think that would be a slick looking ship ... But commenting on this ship specifically ... To me it seems like the masts are all crowded forward and there is a big gap at the stern  ... The cannons only on the front of the ship throw me off as well lol but still a great looking build.

Ok, I'll play around with the design a little bit.

6 hours ago, Bart said:

@LM71Blackbird I personally may not be a fan of the Xebec design, but your build is a fine example of one, I do suggest moving the aft mast more aft and making it a bit shorter.

Thanks! Your're right, the sails are a little to close at the moment, so I'll separate them a little and see how that looks.

[Maxim I]

Not going to throw a picture of the whole vessel here, so here some detail progress pictures of the Gotheborg :p

The first picture isn't historically accurate btw, but it was the only solution I could live with :) (I am talking about the rigging part in the upper left corner, one deck higher than it should have been)

Edited March 11, 2018 by Maxim I

[Bodi]

@Maxim I I really admire the effort and time you put on the rigging, the result is very convincing. I'm glad too that you've find a compromise for that gunport.

[Bart]

Well when you are building a Lego model you have to make compromisses sometimes due to the limitation of bricks, and this work around people only notice when you point them out. And I'll be on the look out for when you release the full images :D

[LM71Blackbird]

I moved the sails so they don't look quite as crowded. I also threw in some extra details and coloring. I also added a fully stock lower deck. I didn't take any renders of that though.

Large Xebec 2 by LM71Blackbird, on Flickr

[Mesabi]

Larger ship I've been working on. Class 5 by my standards. Any suggestions?

WIP ship by North White, on Flickr

 

[Bart]

I need advice.

Are my masts to tall? This question works both ways, for the total mast height and the mast height for the lower masts.
Topmasts and topgallant masts I think are to proportions compared to the lower masts now.

Narwal 6 by Bart, on Flickr

Narwal 7 by Bart, on Flickr

*For those of you who don't use flickr as a cheat to see what people are about to upload, this is the Barque Narwal of Captain Derr

Edited March 25, 2018 by Bart
copied the wrong flickr codes

[Roadmonkeytj]

3 hours ago, Bart said:

I need advice.

Are my masts to tall? This question works both ways, for the total mast height and the mast height for the lower masts.
Topmasts and topgallant masts I think are to proportions compared to the lower masts now.

Narwal 6 by Bart, on Flickr

Narwal 7 by Bart, on Flickr

*For those of you who don't use flickr as a cheat to see what people are about to upload, this is the Barque Narwal of Captain Derr

Initially I said the first yard should be another section higher (black/white/black) to bring the yard up off the deck ... But looking at the second picture ... It looks right .... Love the curve though is that the CGH tumblehome method?

[Bart]

@Roadmonkeytj yes it is the CGH technique. on a 5 midsection prefab. (which I feel is the longest possible for the proportions to be right) I also tried the yards up a bit, closer to the tops (platforms) but you have to imagine the block and tackle to hoist the yard, all the shrouds and stays connecting to the mast at that point. forcing the yard down so it will still have space to rotate around the mast. 

It is supposed to resemble a British rate 5/6. But there is still plenty work to do though, bowsprit, gaff, topgallant yards, (such a shame you can't do ropework in LDD so might fiddle around in paint again to give the impression) Then there is 16 sails to build, and I set my personal bar quit high with the DMDR6, but not sure if I will build all the sails though, depends on what idea's I get for showing her. (oh and move the flag to the correct position if she is sailing ;) maybe have another look at the head rails. pff I shouldn't make such a list. 

The longer I look at that side view the more I get the impression the mast hight (total and the pieces) are okay. the topgallant yard going somewhere around half height of the topgallant masts. 

Bart

[Roadmonkeytj]

@BartTry adding a section of b/w below the yard to raise the whole mast ... I wouldnt move just the yard.  If it looks wrong what have you really lost? 

This would look swell with your billowed sail technique on the tops an gallents with the mains clued

Edited March 25, 2018 by Roadmonkeytj

[Bart]

@RoadmonkeytjYou want me to raise the foremast? (I was thinking they where all on the very tall side)

Something along those lines with the sails I was thinking too.